Over_or_Under training?

[xnotoriousx]

I've been working out with a friend from work for quite sometime now. He's a good sized guy so I put alot of faith into what he says and tells me to do... However I know how long he's been working out and I think he could be ALOT bigger for the time and work he puts in from what i've read from these boards here and there.

My question is, what is a general rule for working out...

For my, I do 2 groups a workout.

mon - Back and bis

weds - Chest and tris

Fri - Shoulders and forarms

Sun - Legs and calves

I know all of the best workouts for each group, but how many sets should I be aiming for? He always says do 4 set and the last 2 sets past failure on almost everything. Also, he always does 8-9 exercises on chest 6 on tris. Is that to much? What is a good number for a solid workout for gaining muscle mass?

[xnotoriousx]

I guess the workout question section isn't all that hot? lol

[abbot138]

Holy mother! Yeah thats way too much, if my math is right, he's doing 32-36 sets for chest and 24 for tri's, thats beyond over-training. I do 16-18 for the large parts (Chest, Back, Legs). 12 for bi's and tri's. And prob around 14 for shoulders. Then you have your random other parts. I usually hit 8 sets for traps, 8 for calves, i dont do forearms but if i did it would be 8. 12-16 a week for abs, but thats bc my abs are lagging, 12 would prob be sufficient (this is highly debated, a lot of people hit them every day, every other day). But those are my thoughts. Main thing is to listen to your body. Everyone's threshhold is a little different. But waht your firend is doing is way beyond over-training and explains why he isnt bigger than he is.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Its hard to write a "good" workout in stone.
Just for the simple fact that good for one, may not be good for another.

for primary muscles, i.e. chest/back/legs, I do anywhere from 10-15 sets
for others, like bis/tris, I do anywhere from 5-7 sets

rep range I change up. Usually something like 2 weeks high reps (15), 2 weeks medium (10), then 2 weeks low (5), then repeat.

My basic spilt looks like
Mon: chest/tris
wed: back/bis/forearms
thur: shoulders/traps
friday: legs/abs

[xnotoriousx]

Holy mother! Yeah thats way too much, if my math is right, he's doing 32-36 sets for chest and 24 for tri's, thats beyond over-training. I do 16-18 for the large parts (Chest, Back, Legs). 12 for bi's and tri's. And prob around 14 for shoulders. Then you have your random other parts. I usually hit 8 sets for traps, 8 for calves, i dont do forearms but if i did it would be 8. 12-16 a week for abs, but thats bc my abs are lagging, 12 would prob be sufficient (this is highly debated, a lot of people hit them every day, every other day). But those are my thoughts. Main thing is to listen to your body. Everyone's threshhold is a little different. But waht your firend is doing is way beyond over-training and explains why he isnt bigger than he is.

Man I knew he was, but like I said, he is a very well built so I thought he knew what he was doing. So 16-18 sets? I should break that into only 5 different exercises? and then only 3-4 for my other body part for the day? That seems like it's not enough but maybe i'm just really used to over training.

[AdamGH]

I think only working a body part once a week is way to little. Three to four days rest per body part is plenty.

Day 1 Chest/Shoulders/triceps(for tri, one exercise, 4sets)
Day 2 Back, Biceps(for biceps, two exercises, 8 sets), cardio
Day 3 Legs, abs
Day 4 Cardio(HIIT)

Repeat, on the second day 4 i rest completely.

You are out of the gym in generally 60 minutes or less. I dont take steroids so this workout may not be good for those that do.

[xnotoriousx]

Ok, I tried what you guys said. Did 15 sets for back, and 10 for bis. WAY less then what i'm used to, got out of the gym like an hour and a half sooner then I usually do. I tried to make sure I really went all out, about 3 sets on the exercises 2 on some, 10-12 reps min 1/2 rest and feel like I hit it pretty good but not 95% drained like usual.

Should I stick to this type of number of sets ( give or take 2-5 ) from here on out?

And how about the day of rest after each workout day? I do cardio, abs calves/forearms on "off days" tues/thurs/sat

[Crest]

how long are you spendin in the gym? i go from about 45 mins to an hour.

[abbot138]

Yeah, I was gonna ask the same thing. You said you reduced your time by 1.5 hours?!?!?! How long were you going before. The absolute longest I am EVER at the gym is 1.5 hours and thats on Back, Bi's and 20 minutes of cardio day.

[xnotoriousx]

I was getting in about 5:45 and leaving around 9 give or take 30 mins. I did back and bis yesterday doing the amount you guys said to do, and I feel it pretty good, but i'm not sore like I am usally. So you're saying by doing less, i'll gain more? Even if the muscles don't feel as sore? Thanks for all the advice btw

[abbot138]

Yup, less is more. If im not mistaken, i remember from your pics that you have some pretty decent muscle development which means you have probably been at it for a while. When you first strart training you can get away with killing every body part a couple times a week or whatever. But as you advance in your training you dont need to damage your muscles as much. It's more important to get an appropriate amount of sets in, being sure to keep the intensity level up throughout your workout, eat properly and get you rest. Not only will this reduce the risk of physically over-training but also over-training your Central Nervous System which can prevent you from making any progress physically.....Also, last week there was a thread on here about the misnomer that if "I don't get sore, I didnt have a good workout." You should know when you had a good workout, in fact they should ALL be good workouts, so you shouldnt have to worry about that Constant muscle soreness following workouts is often a sign of over-training. But make sure your not misunderstanding this, your workouts need to remain INTENSE. If anything look at it as, "alright im not doing as many sets as I use to, so now I have to make every set, and every single rep count that much more."

[Crest]

I was getting in about 5:45 and leaving around 9 give or take 30 mins. I did back and bis yesterday doing the amount you guys said to do, and I feel it pretty good, but i'm not sore like I am usally. So you're saying by doing less, i'll gain more? Even if the muscles don't feel as sore? Thanks for all the advice btw

your in the gym for three and a quarter hours?

if your on gear i dont think you ever feel as sore to be honest...

[xnotoriousx]

But make sure your not misunderstanding this, your workouts need to remain INTENSE. If anything look at it as, "alright im not doing as many sets as I use to, so now I have to make every set, and every single rep count that much more."

That got me pumped up lol i'm READY!!! Thanks for the advice bro, you've been alot of help. I see what you're saying i need to step it and get intense as hell!!

[g0dsend]

When I overtrain a muscle on gear, thats the muscle that grows the most for me. I usually do 3 sets, 12,10,8 of small muscles, 10,8,6 of big mucles. Making sure that I have a very intense workout.

[Bojangles69]

Yeh I don't believe in overtraining lol.

I was in the best shape of my life before I started reading and taking tips from people on here. (no offense to anyone)
I would do one muscle group HARD once a week. Around 16-20 sets per group. Nothing happened, I wasn't growing.

I've pretty much doubled everything and my bodys response in the last couple months has been phenomenal.

Instead of 1/2 hour cardio I do a full hour. Run for a 1/2 do eliptical for another 1/2.
Than I workout. I superset a lot, don't so single muscle groups, and do around 25-30 sets per muscle and hit them twice a week.

My intensity has always been high but no matter how intense, after 1-2 days my muscles lose tightness and by day 3 or 4 I need to hit them again.
I literally judge just by how a certain muscle group looks or feels, not time anymore.

BECAUSE everyone is different, and theres too many standards set that don't work for a lot of people.

Try switching things up and listening to your body. People would say I'm overtraining but its not. Overtraining for one person can be undertraining for another. And since your bodies constantly striving for homeostatis you really need to beat the crap out of it, and of course take breaks when needed.

[abbot138]

You're absolutely right, it is different for everyone, you have to try different things and see how your body responds. I have had the exact opposite experience, once I started listening to people and using a little restraint on the number of sets I did per body part my gains went through the roof. To each his own. Give a new routine 6 weeks or so and see if your happy with the results, if not switch it up.

[xnotoriousx]

I like my workouts taking 1 hour ALOT, and i'm really focused on each rep. I kinda like the change, seems more intense. Hope it works out.

[bmit]

i agree that you have to find out what works for you and walk the threshold of overtraining by listening to your body. One constant for everyone should be high intensity, which usually means less sets. I mean who can do 16-20 all out intense sets for one bodypart and not overtrain? but, again after enough experience you just know by going by how your body feels, energy levels, gains, intensity, etc...

[patrick1]

like somebody said earlier 1 1/2 hours is the max
and another point when you`v done your first set of any muscle group every set after that should be to complete failure no saving yourself for last ego set
that way you will get away with 12 sets for large groups and 6 for small
split the body into 2 and train 4 times every 8 days
1 on 1 off that way you get just the right amount of rest
good luck
remember its the training you put into your time the time you put into your training

[AdamGH]

remember its the training you put into your time the time you put into your training

hahah.. what?

[patrick1]

you disagree!!

[AdamGH]

you disagree!!

Is that phrase you said in English?

[patrick1]

yes your right
typing error
should be NOT the time you put in to your training
good spot!

[patrick1]

it was one of Arnold`s sayings i think

[SuperLift]

it was one of Arnold`s sayings i think

No wonder no one could understand it.

[Lifta]

After reaqding through this, would you say it is good for new trainee's and beginners to work out body parts twice a week or would you say that it is always better to stay at one time per week regardless of whether or not you are on gear or are a beginner? Thanks all!

[patrick1]

IMO twice a week is slightly to much
split body into 2 and train one day rest one day that way you train whole bod over 4 days

[Ronnie Rowland]

Tell your friend he could be a lot bigger by training with fewer sets. He obviously has very good genetics.

If you can't fully break down a muscle with 12 intense work sets, you are not training with enough intensity!

[patrick1]

yes
i agree

[Lifta]

Ronnie, if that is you in your pic, I have total Ronnie Rowland envy... Dude, how do I GET THAT BIG!?!?!?

[abbot138]

^^^^Uh oh sounds like a sling-shot training system candidate Ronnie. lol. (I still havent tried it yet, one of these days I'll take the time to get in to it)

[xnotoriousx]

I am LOVING doing less, keeping it VERY intense. I'm still working 2 muscle groups each workout, on my rest days i've starting doing HIIT using a big ass hill to run up and down. It's pretty hard stuff.


I'm pushing everything I got aiming for 10-12 rep and atleast 8 on last set, resting 1-2 minutes doing mostly 3 sets on each exercise.



Mon - Back and bis - 15 sets back/8 Bis - Rows, deads, one arm rows, pullups, lat pulldowns/ Curls curls curls ect
Tues - HIIT & ABS 15 mins HIT
Weds - Chest and tris 15 sets chest/8 Tris - Dumb press, inc dumb press, flys, cable crosses up and down/ tris this and that.
Thurs - REST+CHEAT
Fri - Shoulders and forarms 15 sets shoulders/6 forearms
Sat - HIIT & ABS
Sun - Legs and calves 15 sets legs/9 calves

What do you guys think?

[Ronnie Rowland]

Ronnie, if that is you in your pic, I have total Ronnie Rowland envy... Dude, how do I GET THAT BIG!?!?!?

LOL...Thanks Lifta! The person in the avatar is me..

Give Slingshot Training a try. It really does produce great results. I should have it updated soon!

[Lifta]

You got it!

[abbot138]

I am LOVING doing less, keeping it VERY intense. I'm still working 2 muscle groups each workout, on my rest days i've starting doing HIIT using a big ass hill to run up and down. It's pretty hard stuff.


I'm pushing everything I got aiming for 10-12 rep and atleast 8 on last set, resting 1-2 minutes doing mostly 3 sets on each exercise.



Mon - Back and bis - 15 sets back/8 Bis - Rows, deads, one arm rows, pullups, lat pulldowns/ Curls curls curls ect
Tues - HIIT & ABS 15 mins HIT
Weds - Chest and tris 15 sets chest/8 Tris - Dumb press, inc dumb press, flys, cable crosses up and down/ tris this and that.
Thurs - REST+CHEAT
Fri - Shoulders and forarms 15 sets shoulders/6 forearms
Sat - HIIT & ABS
Sun - Legs and calves 15 sets legs/9 calves

What do you guys think?

Sounds about right brotha, keep us posted.