Delts help

[Voland]

So i feel my delts are lagging, maybe not, but i want more.
Would doing them twice a week help? Like doing a full shoulder workout one day and then another day do some 4 or 6 sets of lateral raises after the chest workout, for example.

[RuhlFreak55]

some people do that......i just do one day a week though.......doing upright rows wide supersetted with standing side lateral raises have really helped mine i think........i do do 30 sets for shoulders though and another 10 for traps on shoulder day

[binder]

If you do 2 workouts a week then do a heavy workout that hits them hard then do them as a lighter weight workout later in the week. Make sure they are spaced out equal though. Like a monday/thursday.

post up what you are doing for a shoulder workout. Not saying your workout is bad, but maybe it needs a tweek.

[Voland]

My once a week shoulder routine (actually i do delts+tris):

Military press or Db presses (i switch each 1 or 2 weeks). 4 x 15, 10, 6, 4
Lateral raises 4x 15, 12, 10, 8
Front raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
Shrugs 4 x 15, 12, 10, 8

[RuhlFreak55]

My once a week shoulder routine (actually i do delts+tris):

Military press or Db presses (i switch each 1 or 2 weeks). 4 x 15, 10, 6, 4
Lateral raises 4x 15, 12, 10, 8
Front raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
Shrugs 4 x 15, 12, 10, 8

hmmmm well since that's literally half the volume i do for 'em i'd say yea you can add another day

[MuscleScience]

You get a lot of shoulder work on chest days, so be careful not to overtrain them.

[binder]

My once a week shoulder routine (actually i do delts+tris):

Military press or Db presses (i switch each 1 or 2 weeks). 4 x 15, 10, 6, 4
Lateral raises 4x 15, 12, 10, 8
Front raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
Shrugs 4 x 15, 12, 10, 8

i don't understand what you are typing here. so you do 4 sets of 15, then 4 sets of 10, then 6 then 4 or what?

what are the weights you use and everything. like i would say for db press i use 60lb db 4 x 10.

or if you change weight just put like 40lbs x 8, 50lbs x6, 60lbs x4

which really, if you are going up in weight you should keep the same reps. If you are going to do heavy do heavy, if you are going to do high rep, do high rep. I don't mix them. I do a high rep day to get that, then a high weight day for that. On my high weight days i'll do a drop set every other week or so to get that hypertrophy with the increased blood flow.

You get a lot of shoulder work on chest days, so be careful not to overtrain them.

You don't work shoulders THAT much on a chest day. If you do then you are doing your chest exercises wrong. You incorporate some front delt but not to the point that i would say you are "working them". If you are then you need to learn to isolate your chest more. I never feel my shoulders after a chest workout. I do separate my shoulders and chest workouts by a few days just in case though...but not enough to "overtrain". Don't be so afraid of overtraining that you won't grow. That's a more common instance than manning up and working the muscles hard enough to stimulate growth.

[Voland]

Military press or Db presses (i switch each 1 or 2 weeks). 4 x 15, 10, 6, 4

That just means i do 4 sets, i go heavier in each set and my reps go down.
So, for example Dbs press would be: 15x20kg, 10x25kg, 6x27,5kg, 4x30kg

[binder]

hm...i see

so is there a reason you are doing high rep then ending up low rep? like, a certain benefit you are trying to gain from it?

I never seemed to make any progress by doing a workout like that. I don't see any of the powerlifters i workout with doing it that way either. It seems more effective if you are wanting to add mass and strength to take what you can do your 6 reps of and do 4 sets of that for a workout. Or if you're wanting to define it up and get more muscular endurance take what you can knock out for 15 reps and do 4 sets of that.

i also notice you don't have an exercise for your rear delt. That will hinder your gains on your back also without a strong rear delt. It also adds a good amount of mass to the shoulders. You definitely want to work all 3 heads of the deltoid muscle: anterior, lateral, and posterior.

[green22]

Voland, you can work shoulders twice a week but I would say you do risk overtraining them. Especialy if your training chest durring the week. With all due respect I diagree with with Binder when he says that if you feel shoulders on chest day then your not doing it right. If you are inclineing and not fatigueing your shoulders then I say your lying. Its just the mechanics of the movement, front delts are worked. Also he stated that if ya gonna do heavy then do only heavy that day and the same with light days. I disagree with that too. Pyramid in weight has be around for ever and is very effective. for example. 4 sets at 12, 10, 8 and 6 reps. If you want to do high rep days thats fine too. Just dont let him confuse you.

[Voland]

1. So, that will make it 4 sets of 6 reps (aprox) right? Noted.

2. The reason i don't do rear delts is bc those excercises suck big time, they feel so unconfortable...even painfull. I've tried reverse fly machine or however is called, rear delt raises (both with dbs and cables) and i can't find a good excercise that doesn't screw my shoulders.

[Voland]

Voland, you can work shoulders twice a week but I would say you do risk overtraining them. Especialy if your training chest durring the week. With all due respect I diagree with with Binder when he says that if you feel shoulders on chest day then your not doing it right. If you are inclineing and not fatigueing your shoulders then I say your lying. Its just the mechanics of the movement, front delts are worked. Also he stated that if ya gonna do heavy then do only heavy that day and the same with light days. I disagree with that too. Pyramid in weight has be around for ever and is very effective. for example. 4 sets at 12, 10, 8 and 6 reps. If you want to do high rep days thats fine too. Just dont let him confuse you.

I see. Both of you seem to agree that 15 reps when trying to go for mass is too much and 4 reps is too little. So that one is clear.

On the other hand i do feel my front delts when doing inclines. Still front raises are to be done?

[green22]

Im not saying that 15 reps is to high if your going for size. You may grow great with 15 reps. I may grow best from 10 and others folks grow from 6. Everyone is different. Just do what works best for you.

Personnaly I dont do front raises, my front delts are very big and strong from overhead presses. If your delts are not as developed, then it is fine to do front raises.
Bodybuilding/weight training is trial and error. Its takes years to figure out what works for your body. Ive been training 13 years and am still learning my body. Be patient and keep plugging away.

[RuhlFreak55]

overtraining doesn't exist.....eat more

[Ronnie Rowland]

Incline presses nail my front delts better than over head presses!

[binder]

1. So, that will make it 4 sets of 6 reps (aprox) right? Noted.

2. The reason i don't do rear delts is bc those excercises suck big time, they feel so unconfortable...even painfull. I've tried reverse fly machine or however is called, rear delt raises (both with dbs and cables) and i can't find a good excercise that doesn't screw my shoulders.

what do you mean "screw your shoulders" if they hurt it's probably because they are under developed. If you mean joint pain then you need to find out if you have a shoulder problem or a problem with your mechanics on the exercises.

They are awkward exercises, but they are very important for a correctly developed body. If you have an imbalance then you are at a greater risk for injury. Imbalance could be chest verses back strength or front verses posterior deltoid.

start off with a lighter weight and work into doing rear delts. It will improve your shoulder size. If you wanna be big you have to hit them all.

[Voland]

Its more of a disgusting "click" when doing it.

[binder]

Its more of a disgusting "click" when doing it.

hmm...well, maybe if you get a chance or have a physical coming up you can discuss that with your doctor and have someone examine your shoulder.

Usually when people start having shoulder problems like hanging or impingement (which would cause a clicking sound or a popping) it is due to an imbalance in the shoulder muscles causing the shoulder as a whole not to function properly. If you are strong on the front it will pull on the front of the humerus causing a misalignment of the humeral head in the glenoid fossa.

If it is an imbalance then exercising the rear of the shoulder (if that is the weak area) will not only make your shoulders stronger but it will also heal your shoulder problems.

That's pretty much the basis of most physical therapy. Balance and increase muscle around joints to help a person retain their motion back.

[AdamGH]

So i feel my delts are lagging, maybe not, but i want more.
Would doing them twice a week help? Like doing a full shoulder workout one day and then another day do some 4 or 6 sets of lateral raises after the chest workout, for example.

I never really got into lateral raises and front raises, etc. I believe in doing power(compound) movements. Those exercises arent power movements to me. Try this routine if you like:

Dumbbell presses 4 sets x 10 reps
Upright rows 4 sets x 10 reps
Smith machine behind the neck press 4 sets x 10 reps

I go heavy as possible, rest of my shoulder gets worked on back day.

[ray0414]

My once a week shoulder routine (actually i do delts+tris):

Military press or Db presses (i switch each 1 or 2 weeks). 4 x 15, 10, 6, 4
Lateral raises 4x 15, 12, 10, 8
Front raises 3 x 12, 10, 8
Shrugs 4 x 15, 12, 10, 8

u can do dumbbell and barbell in the same day. the shrugs are more for back than shoulders. a great way to work front delts also is standing barbell presses, dont use too much weight though, but if u control it and use good form u should get a pretty good pump from it. i do alot of raises also, i prefer to take the weight all the way up so my arms are straight up in the air, thats how arnold did them so thats how i do them, and my shoulders have pretty good shape to them and i credit them from doing LOTS of hard CONTROLED raises back in the day.

[free_spirit]

Something diffrent...from my 3 years at the gym and trying all sorts of shoulder excercises. The one that really got my delts to grow and also strengthen my rotator cuffs was oddly 'Side-Lying External Rotator'. I'll also sometimes super set it with 'Lying lateral raises'. I personally found lying sideways pressed to the floor, helps really focus the weight on the delts and keep it controlled.

I also do another dark horse to finish off my shoulders, which is 4 sets of trying to hold your body weight doing 'Planches' as long as possible. Pressing all your bodyweight on the shoulder position, in which now i can actually planche a few seconds in the air. Which is cool . lol.

I always found that my traps were getting worked more with my Upright row...maybe it was too heavy. I'll experiment with it again in my next work out.

I also do Military Press and Rear Delt Rows.

Hope that helps.

[Voland]

Thanks guys!. I'll experiment with your advises.

[Voland]

Something diffrent...from my 3 years at the gym and trying all sorts of shoulder excercises. The one that really got my delts to grow and also strengthen my rotator cuffs was oddly 'Side-Lying External Rotator'. I'll also sometimes super set it with 'Lying lateral raises'. I personally found lying sideways pressed to the floor, helps really focus the weight on the delts and keep it controlled.

I also do another dark horse to finish off my shoulders, which is 4 sets of trying to hold your body weight doing 'Planches' as long as possible. Pressing all your bodyweight on the shoulder position, in which now i can actually planche a few seconds in the air. Which is cool . lol.

I always found that my traps were getting worked more with my Upright row...maybe it was too heavy. I'll experiment with it again in my next work out.

I also do Military Press and Rear Delt Rows.

Hope that helps.

Just so I don't get wrong. You do this http://www.atlantaswimming.com/healt...s/Page1046.htm right?
With a heavier Db I guess. I could try that i've seen some dudes at the gym doing something similar but standing and with cables.

[free_spirit]

Yea...similar.

I do it with more movement, and can actually get a real good feeling that the Delts are getting worked. In the link below, scroll down to Side-Lying External Rotator.

http://www.bodyresults.com/E2RotatorCuff.asp

Also, it really really helped strengthen my rotator cuff and fix any pain I use to get under heavy weight of Bench Pressing!

Hope that helps.

[Chode Logan]

Everything worthwhile has more or less been covered in here, just a couple things to add. I'd say do dumbell AND barbell presses, and skip the front raises. Doing front raises all the time you might end up with savage front delts and nothing in the back. Your front delts get crushed from all the pressing, I would only include this exercise if you notice them becoming a weak point. Hit the rear delts, just start out very very light.

Go heavy on the presses, and lighter with the raises. I used to do lateral raises with 50's. My shoulders grew but I developed injuries. I now use 30's and much better form and they have grown far past the point they were before.