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Thread: Start sets heavy, or end heavy??

  1. #1
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    Aug 2005
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    Start sets heavy, or end heavy??

    Just wanted to get a few opinions on this. I have been searching for the past hour or so and haven't found much on this.

    I usually shoot between the 8-12 rep range, possibly 6 if I am trying a heavier weight. Should I be doing the heaviest weights first in my sets?

    For example today i did:
    Flat DB Bench Press x 3 -- 80 x 15 reps [a little light] , 95 x 7 reps, 100 x 5 reps

    Should I have started with 100 and worked my way down instead??


    My logic was that as soon as I could do 100 x 8 reps I would move it up to 105. But, am I wasting too much energy on the previous 2 sets?

  2. #2
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    I used to do a warn-up set thn 4 sets 12/10/10/8

    I know do 1 or 2 warm-up sets of 10-12

    Then follow by 2 sets
    1st set 6-8
    2nd set 6

  3. #3
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    I think you should at least most of the time do light to heavy sets.

    For the most part you have to find out what works best for you we are all differant.

  4. #4
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    If you start heavy you have more of a chance of injury because you might not be warmed up. This depends though, some people do several warm up sets that they don't count as part of their workout. Personally most of the time I do 4 sets and only one or two of the sets will go to failure, and I'll only do forced reps on the last set and no more than 2. But that's just me you will get as many responses as you want for different ways to train.

  5. #5
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    Aug 2005
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    I know its pretty much all relative as it comes down to different things work for different people. So i guess as long as im making progress week to week it doesnt make much of a difference??

    Just wanted to get everyones take on the situation. So far no one recommends starting heavy..

  6. #6
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    Jan 2009
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    start heavy just be properly warmed up.. you alredy got that info from my thread... try it out bet you can get an extra rep out of it

  7. #7
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    I work my way up to the heavy works better for me but everyones body is different

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by s00noma View Post
    Just wanted to get a few opinions on this. I have been searching for the past hour or so and haven't found much on this.

    I usually shoot between the 8-12 rep range, possibly 6 if I am trying a heavier weight. Should I be doing the heaviest weights first in my sets?

    For example today i did:
    Flat DB Bench Press x 3 -- 80 x 15 reps [a little light] , 95 x 7 reps, 100 x 5 reps

    Should I have started with 100 and worked my way down instead??


    My logic was that as soon as I could do 100 x 8 reps I would move it up to 105. But, am I wasting too much energy on the previous 2 sets?
    Check out Slingshot Training at the top of our workout section!

    Slingshot Pyramiding for Bodybuilder's

    I have found Slingshot Pyramiding to be the best way to increase both strength and muscular size during an off-season blast. Warming up the right way and starting out with a medium rep PREP-SET taken 2 reps shy of absolute failure before performing a heavy low rep work-set with a key compound movements used by power-lifters allows you to take a much bigger jump in weight during a low rep set without becoming injured. A prep set consist of doing 4-8 reps and stopping at least 2 reps shy of good failure! When trying to gain additional strength you should do your heavy set for each anchor exercise first (after warm up-sets and the prep set) while your strength is at its peak. With all other work sets that follow, simply drop the poundages after each work set as needed, to stay in your desired rep-range.

    Every advanced power-lifter and stregnth athlete I have worked with soon realizes they must hit their heaviest set on key movements before the neural muscular pathways weaken yet while they have some pump in the muscle. This is important because when a muscle is fresh, ATP (the chemical responsible for energy and contraction) and stored glycogen in the muscle are at their highest. That's when you can really lift some heavy weight loads. Stopping 2 reps shy of failure on the PREP SET will keep the CNS strong and awaken and optimize the firing of neural pathways for the heaviest work set that follows. This helps you to lift heavier weight! The PREP SET is more fatiguing than the warm up sets. You must never train to failure during the prep set or it will exhaust the CNS before the heaviest work set. And you’ll need to wait an additional minute or so before going to your heaviest work-set (set # 1). Power-lifters are known for doing a prep set and then waiting around 5 minutes or more before doing their heaviest set to increase weight load range and workload capacity. You’ll be required to wait around 4 minutes as a bodybuilder before doing your heaviest set on compound/power-lifting- movements. Then go back to around 2-3 minutes between sets for that same exercise on each set that follows.

    Using more than 3 warm-up sets for any cold body part (for i.e. chest and quads) will hurt your performance. If you need more than 3 warm up sets your doing something wrong (for i.e.; ego lifting). If a muscle group is completely cold, you should always start using 1 high rep warm-up set of 12-15 reps followed by 1 to 2 heavier warm-up sets using only 6 reps. If you fail to warm up properly you won’t be able to bring enough blood flow (pump) into the muscles before performing the heaviest set even though you’ve done a PREP SET and this will increase the risk of getting injured. In addition, a muscle that is not warmed up sufficiently will contract and stretch with less efficiency and this means less muscle fiber stimulation. On the other hand, if you over exert yourself during the warm up sets by using more than one high rep set or using too much weight, you will become to fatigued to produce the desired training effect during the work sets. Warm ups are designed to bring blood flow into the muscle not break down muscle tissue or exert yourself. Using too much weight during warm-ups sets or pushing too much intensity is a huge mistake being made by many bodybuilders and it’s really hurting their ability to increase weight load range and workload capacity. A moderately pumped muscle responds better to heavier workloads and it takes a non-fatiguing high rep set followed by one or two moderate low rep sets to make this happen if the muscle is completely cold. Anytime you do not feel adequately warmed following a high and a low rep warm up set, you’ll need to add an additional low rep warm up set using the same amount of weight used in the second set. Adding more weight to the third warm up set would produce too much fatigue and would do nothing to further prepare the joints for the heavy workload to come.

    Note: The PREP-SET is in a league of it's own. Not a warm-up and not an all out work set. You'll need to leave two in the hole during a PREP SET. And PREP SETS are to be used only for power exercises such as the following-(squats,dead-lifts, bench presses and over head shoulder presses)!


    One low rep warm-up set is usually sufficient before doing the PREP SET for the deltoids if they are trained after chest. When training bicep after lats, a warm up set is generally not needed before proceeding to the work sets. If you feel the need to use more warm-ups set for the delts or biceps because it’s an area that’s been injured in the past, you can use a total of 2 low rep sets of 6 repetitions. In these particular cases, you would need to shun high reps during the warm up because of the fatigue already present from training the chest and lats. This rule applies to every body part. Performing countless warm-up sets for a body part that’s already filled with blood is counter productive and only wasting valuable gym time. It’s not mandatory to work your way up the ladder within each rep-scheme. Stay in the designated rep-range the best you can and add weight when applicable.


    Note: If for some reason you are not able to use a particular rep-range due to joint pain, simply work in a rep-range where no pain is experienced.


    More weight can be used during the low rep heavy set (4 to 6 reps) when utilizing the Slingshot Pyramiding Scheme. I’ve had multitudes of trainees obtain a new personal record on key movements the first time using this pyramiding scheme and they continue doing so because they are doing it right for the first time in their life! If you tried doing the heaviest set before the PREP SET, the muscles would not be pumped sufficiently to contract at full force-hence the chance of being injured would be greater. On the other hand, if you wait until the last work set to go heavy as many do, it will decreases performance due to excess fatigue-hence actually increase your chance for injury. You’ve got to do the heaviest work set when the muscle is at its strongest! The advantage is catching the body off guard! I call this Slingshot Pyramiding because it “hurls” a burst of intensity to the muscles during the “heaviest work-set” on the key power-building movements. If you have areas that are easily prone to injury then save the heavy sets for last when you are weaker or avoid them altogether!

    Slingshot Training adds an extra margin of safety by never doing heavy sets for isolation movements! With compound movements, more weight can be used without getting injured because more muscles come into play during the lift. No PREP SETS are required before doing isolation exercises. Do only the desired warm up sets, if any, and stay near the 8-10 rep-range for all intense work sets. Another way to surprise the muscles is during the the final work set when using a power-lifting movement. You will want to do an intense burn out set composed of higher reps (12-15) with key power-lifting movements to help increase functional strength. These will completely fatigue the stronger regions of the muscles being worked and in return activate some of the more stubborn dormant muscle fibers often neglected.

    Note: There is way too much chaos amongst bodybuilders pertaining to which rep-range builds the most muscle size. It's simple! You'll need to perform the majority of your work sets in the 8-10 rep-range (give or take a rep or two) if you want to max out your full-genetic potential as a bodybuilder because it delivers superior gains in muscle size. Perform 1 heavy set in the 4-6 rep-ranges with key compound power-lifting exercises to make continued strength gains. Utilize 1 set in the 12-15 rep-ranges with your key power-lifting exercises to build endurance,functional strength and aid in healing. Keep most work sets in the 8-10 rep-range for maximum hypertrophy. This is how you obtain total bodypart mass and full-blown muscle-belly development!


    Sample of how to pyramid your chest training as a "bodybuilder" during the blast: Here's a chest workout using 2 exercises once a week for 10 sets. Incline barbell bench press- 1st warm up set 135lbs-12 reps, 2nd warm up set 175lbs-6 reps, 3rd warm up set 185 lbs-4 reps, PREP SET- 240 lbs for 6 reps stopping 2 reps shy of failure). )-“wait an extra minute before performing your 1st work set”. 1st work set/heavy-set 350 lbs-4 reps to failure, 2rd work set 275 lbs for 8 to good failure, 3rd work set 265 lbs for 8 reps to failure, 4 th set 255 for 8 reps to failure, 5th work set 200 lbs for 12 reps to failure. Second exercise is flat flyes- 1st work set 45 lbs for 10 rep to failure, 2nd work set 45 lbs for 9 reps to failure, 3rd set 45 for 8 reps to failure, 4th work set 40 lbs for 9 reps to failure. 5th and final work set 40 lbs for 8 reps to failure.


    By keeping intense low-rep sets (4-6 reps) to roughly one per each training session it helps prevent over-training of the CNS, connective tissue and joints when training to all out failure on each set as a bodybuilder. The high rep "burn-out sets" is a conditioning technique and is also a means to prevent tendonitis later on as you progress in size strength. High rep training is very intense, especially when training the legs with compound exercises like squats, so it works best if used sparingly. Too much high rep training can push you into a catabolic mode, but just the right amount will increase muscle size.

    Important Note: An alternative Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding scheme should be utilized by those of you who get easily injured or have joint problems. Skip the "prep-set" and increase weight on each set while reducing the reps. As you advance in strength/size it can be important to pyramid in this manner to avoid injury. You'll see many pro-bodybuilders using Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding as they become more advanced.


    Sample Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding for bench press (warm up sets not included)-

    Set 1) 200 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 2) 225 lbs for 8 reps
    Set 3) 250 lbs for 6 reps

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    Check out Slingshot Training at the top of our workout section!

    Slingshot Pyramiding for Bodybuilder's

    I have found Slingshot Pyramiding to be the best way to increase both strength and muscular size during an off-season blast. Warming up the right way and starting out with a medium rep PREP-SET taken 2 reps shy of absolute failure before performing a heavy low rep work-set with a key compound movements used by power-lifters allows you to take a much bigger jump in weight during a low rep set without becoming injured. A prep set consist of doing 4-8 reps and stopping at least 2 reps shy of good failure! When trying to gain additional strength you should do your heavy set for each anchor exercise first (after warm up-sets and the prep set) while your strength is at its peak. With all other work sets that follow, simply drop the poundages after each work set as needed, to stay in your desired rep-range.

    Every advanced power-lifter and stregnth athlete I have worked with soon realizes they must hit their heaviest set on key movements before the neural muscular pathways weaken yet while they have some pump in the muscle. This is important because when a muscle is fresh, ATP (the chemical responsible for energy and contraction) and stored glycogen in the muscle are at their highest. That's when you can really lift some heavy weight loads. Stopping 2 reps shy of failure on the PREP SET will keep the CNS strong and awaken and optimize the firing of neural pathways for the heaviest work set that follows. This helps you to lift heavier weight! The PREP SET is more fatiguing than the warm up sets. You must never train to failure during the prep set or it will exhaust the CNS before the heaviest work set. And you’ll need to wait an additional minute or so before going to your heaviest work-set (set # 1). Power-lifters are known for doing a prep set and then waiting around 5 minutes or more before doing their heaviest set to increase weight load range and workload capacity. You’ll be required to wait around 4 minutes as a bodybuilder before doing your heaviest set on compound/power-lifting- movements. Then go back to around 2-3 minutes between sets for that same exercise on each set that follows.

    Using more than 3 warm-up sets for any cold body part (for i.e. chest and quads) will hurt your performance. If you need more than 3 warm up sets your doing something wrong (for i.e.; ego lifting). If a muscle group is completely cold, you should always start using 1 high rep warm-up set of 12-15 reps followed by 1 to 2 heavier warm-up sets using only 6 reps. If you fail to warm up properly you won’t be able to bring enough blood flow (pump) into the muscles before performing the heaviest set even though you’ve done a PREP SET and this will increase the risk of getting injured. In addition, a muscle that is not warmed up sufficiently will contract and stretch with less efficiency and this means less muscle fiber stimulation. On the other hand, if you over exert yourself during the warm up sets by using more than one high rep set or using too much weight, you will become to fatigued to produce the desired training effect during the work sets. Warm ups are designed to bring blood flow into the muscle not break down muscle tissue or exert yourself. Using too much weight during warm-ups sets or pushing too much intensity is a huge mistake being made by many bodybuilders and it’s really hurting their ability to increase weight load range and workload capacity. A moderately pumped muscle responds better to heavier workloads and it takes a non-fatiguing high rep set followed by one or two moderate low rep sets to make this happen if the muscle is completely cold. Anytime you do not feel adequately warmed following a high and a low rep warm up set, you’ll need to add an additional low rep warm up set using the same amount of weight used in the second set. Adding more weight to the third warm up set would produce too much fatigue and would do nothing to further prepare the joints for the heavy workload to come.

    Note: The PREP-SET is in a league of it's own. Not a warm-up and not an all out work set. You'll need to leave two in the hole during a PREP SET. And PREP SETS are to be used only for power exercises such as the following-(squats,dead-lifts, bench presses and over head shoulder presses)!


    One low rep warm-up set is usually sufficient before doing the PREP SET for the deltoids if they are trained after chest. When training bicep after lats, a warm up set is generally not needed before proceeding to the work sets. If you feel the need to use more warm-ups set for the delts or biceps because it’s an area that’s been injured in the past, you can use a total of 2 low rep sets of 6 repetitions. In these particular cases, you would need to shun high reps during the warm up because of the fatigue already present from training the chest and lats. This rule applies to every body part. Performing countless warm-up sets for a body part that’s already filled with blood is counter productive and only wasting valuable gym time. It’s not mandatory to work your way up the ladder within each rep-scheme. Stay in the designated rep-range the best you can and add weight when applicable.


    Note: If for some reason you are not able to use a particular rep-range due to joint pain, simply work in a rep-range where no pain is experienced.


    More weight can be used during the low rep heavy set (4 to 6 reps) when utilizing the Slingshot Pyramiding Scheme. I’ve had multitudes of trainees obtain a new personal record on key movements the first time using this pyramiding scheme and they continue doing so because they are doing it right for the first time in their life! If you tried doing the heaviest set before the PREP SET, the muscles would not be pumped sufficiently to contract at full force-hence the chance of being injured would be greater. On the other hand, if you wait until the last work set to go heavy as many do, it will decreases performance due to excess fatigue-hence actually increase your chance for injury. You’ve got to do the heaviest work set when the muscle is at its strongest! The advantage is catching the body off guard! I call this Slingshot Pyramiding because it “hurls” a burst of intensity to the muscles during the “heaviest work-set” on the key power-building movements. If you have areas that are easily prone to injury then save the heavy sets for last when you are weaker or avoid them altogether!

    Slingshot Training adds an extra margin of safety by never doing heavy sets for isolation movements! With compound movements, more weight can be used without getting injured because more muscles come into play during the lift. No PREP SETS are required before doing isolation exercises. Do only the desired warm up sets, if any, and stay near the 8-10 rep-range for all intense work sets. Another way to surprise the muscles is during the the final work set when using a power-lifting movement. You will want to do an intense burn out set composed of higher reps (12-15) with key power-lifting movements to help increase functional strength. These will completely fatigue the stronger regions of the muscles being worked and in return activate some of the more stubborn dormant muscle fibers often neglected.

    Note: There is way too much chaos amongst bodybuilders pertaining to which rep-range builds the most muscle size. It's simple! You'll need to perform the majority of your work sets in the 8-10 rep-range (give or take a rep or two) if you want to max out your full-genetic potential as a bodybuilder because it delivers superior gains in muscle size. Perform 1 heavy set in the 4-6 rep-ranges with key compound power-lifting exercises to make continued strength gains. Utilize 1 set in the 12-15 rep-ranges with your key power-lifting exercises to build endurance,functional strength and aid in healing. Keep most work sets in the 8-10 rep-range for maximum hypertrophy. This is how you obtain total bodypart mass and full-blown muscle-belly development!


    Sample of how to pyramid your chest training as a "bodybuilder" during the blast: Here's a chest workout using 2 exercises once a week for 10 sets. Incline barbell bench press- 1st warm up set 135lbs-12 reps, 2nd warm up set 175lbs-6 reps, 3rd warm up set 185 lbs-4 reps, PREP SET- 240 lbs for 6 reps stopping 2 reps shy of failure). )-“wait an extra minute before performing your 1st work set”. 1st work set/heavy-set 350 lbs-4 reps to failure, 2rd work set 275 lbs for 8 to good failure, 3rd work set 265 lbs for 8 reps to failure, 4 th set 255 for 8 reps to failure, 5th work set 200 lbs for 12 reps to failure. Second exercise is flat flyes- 1st work set 45 lbs for 10 rep to failure, 2nd work set 45 lbs for 9 reps to failure, 3rd set 45 for 8 reps to failure, 4th work set 40 lbs for 9 reps to failure. 5th and final work set 40 lbs for 8 reps to failure.


    By keeping intense low-rep sets (4-6 reps) to roughly one per each training session it helps prevent over-training of the CNS, connective tissue and joints when training to all out failure on each set as a bodybuilder. The high rep "burn-out sets" is a conditioning technique and is also a means to prevent tendonitis later on as you progress in size strength. High rep training is very intense, especially when training the legs with compound exercises like squats, so it works best if used sparingly. Too much high rep training can push you into a catabolic mode, but just the right amount will increase muscle size.

    Important Note: An alternative Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding scheme should be utilized by those of you who get easily injured or have joint problems. Skip the "prep-set" and increase weight on each set while reducing the reps. As you advance in strength/size it can be important to pyramid in this manner to avoid injury. You'll see many pro-bodybuilders using Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding as they become more advanced.


    Sample Reverse Slingshot Pyramiding for bench press (warm up sets not included)-

    Set 1) 200 lbs for 12 reps
    Set 2) 225 lbs for 8 reps
    Set 3) 250 lbs for 6 reps
    "When trying to gain additional strength you should do your heavy set for each anchor exercise first (after warm up-sets and the prep set) while your strength is at its peak."

    -sums it up

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    104
    Thats kinda funny, i was taking a good look at the slingshot method right before i started this thread. Looks very interesting.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by eatrainrest View Post
    start heavy just be properly warmed up.. you alredy got that info from my thread... try it out bet you can get an extra rep out of it
    Indeed I did. Thanks.

    I just wanted to see what a few more people thought.

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