Bring Back Hard Work and Volume Training

[guardian72]

A little background:

I've been training for a good many of my 36 years.
I have a Masters Degree in Biology.
I also have coursework in Kiniesiology, Nutrition, and a Personal Training Cert.
I am a former soldier (military parachuting mishap).

My question is this...When did this paradigm shift from volume training to some form of HIT occur?

I realize Mentzer made amazing advances and Yates took it to the next level, but now it seems to me that everyone is almost unwilling to train long and hard for fear of overtraining. There seems to have been a boogeyman created that eats muscle and destroys gains if someone trains long and hard. I see a "train less / more intensely & medicate more" attitude permeating the gyms of the US. I volume train with manic intensity and strength and am looked upon and spoken to as some sort of caveman for my efforts. I also medicate very little and with low frequency. Up until the mid 80's volume training was the way to go and helped mold some of the most visually pleasing and functional physiques ever seen, so again I ask, When did this happen and better yet...Why?

G72

[eatrainrest]

some respond better to low volume while others with higher volume sets... my recommendation is slingshot which implements both. if you manipulate it right i think its one of the best programs. (1st sticky)

[FireGuy]

Great post Guardian. Unfortunately the pendulum tends to always swing too far no matter what the subject matter is. The fact is "Overtraining" has become the buzzword and there is definately a case to be made against it. The problem lies in that literally 99% of the people I see in the gym do not train at a level of intensity to ever worry about that happening. I see workouts posted on here all the time that have have way too many sets per bodypart but in reality, the intensity level of the average person in the gym these days is not enough to warrant overtraining dangers.

[eatrainrest]

and welcome BTW, im sure you can be of help to the diet section as well.

[Ronnie Rowland]

A little background:

I've been training for a good many of my 36 years.
I have a Masters Degree in Biology.
I also have coursework in Kiniesiology, Nutrition, and a Personal Training Cert.
I am a former soldier (military parachuting mishap).

My question is this...When did this paradigm shift from volume training to some form of HIT occur?

I realize Mentzer made amazing advances and Yates took it to the next level, but now it seems to me that everyone is almost unwilling to train long and hard for fear of overtraining. There seems to have been a boogeyman created that eats muscle and destroys gains if someone trains long and hard. I see a "train less / more intensely & medicate more" attitude permeating the gyms of the US. I volume train with manic intensity and strength and am looked upon and spoken to as some sort of caveman for my efforts. I also medicate very little and with low frequency. Up until the mid 80's volume training was the way to go and helped mold some of the most visually pleasing and functional physiques ever seen, so again I ask, When did this happen and better yet...Why?

G72

Obsessive low volume training came about when those over-training with high volume (for example Mike Mentzer) cut their training volume way back and experienced a growth spurt. The mistakenly believed the holy grail of bodybuilding had been found when in reality they just grew from the deload because they had been over-training.

Check out Slingshot Training. It will better explain everything. Heres the link-http://forums.steroid .com/showthread.php?t=348723

[Narkissos]

The mistakenly believed the holy grail of bodybuilding had been found when in reality they just grew from the deload because they had been over-training.

Agreed 100%

[FireGuy]

Obsessive low volume training came about when those over-training with high volume (for example Mike Mentzer) cut their training volume way back and experienced a growth spurt. The mistakenly believed the holy grail of bodybuilding had been found when in reality they just grew from the deload because they had been over-training.

Check out Slingshot Training. It will better explain everything. Heres the link-http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=348723

Well stated.

[F4iGuy]

I wish it were a simple matter of one routine fits all. STS is a bit of work to set up but no doubt effective. I think it all comes down to how bad you want it. Most aren't dedicated to put forth the intensity necessary for their potential. Its sad. I see it every day. People casually moving through the weights... stopping about 4 or 5 reps short of failure only to take a 5 minute rest while talking to a buddy. It ticks me off but makes me happy too. Its what sets us apart.

[muscle_20]

I have trained in 5 different american gyms including ones with IFBB pro's and top amateurs and i have yet to see ANY ONE training HIT.

I train HIT because i grow better this way than on volume, why do more work than is needed?

[Ronnie Rowland]

I have trained in 5 different american gyms including ones with IFBB pro's and top amateurs and i have yet to see ANY ONE training HIT.

I train HIT because i grow better this way than on volume, why do more work than is needed?

Both Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mike Mentzer were right on some things. For the best of both worlds you'll need to alternate between higher volume and lower volume training. What's considered higher volume for one person will not neccesarily be defined as higher volume for another person. For me, high volume is around 12 sets where as for someone else it could be as high as 24 sets or as low as maybe 6.

For me low volume is around 6 sets where as for someone else it could be only 3 sets or maybe as high as 10. With Slingshot Training you cycle what you consider is higher volume and lower volume while always training with high-intensity!

Some PROS and CONS of HIGH VOLUME and LOW VOLUME training

LOW VOLUME

PROS-
1) PREVENTS OVER-TRAINING OF CNS
2) GOOD FOR PEOPLE ON TIME CONSTRAINTS
3) ALLOWS AMPLE RECOVERY
4) REQUIRES LESS PROTEIN INTAKE
5) INCREASED STRENGTH GAINS

CONS-
1) LACK OF MUSCLE PUMP
2) LACK OF EXERCISE VARIETY
3) LACK OF TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBER STIMULATION-HENCE LESS MUSCLE SIZE
4) NOT SUITABLE FOR BEGINNERS


HIGH VOLUME

PROS-
1) MAXIMIZES STIMULATION OF GENES IN MUSCLE CELLS INVOLVED IN GROWTH ADN TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBERS
2) INCREASED PUMP-STRETCHES OUT FASCIA
3) STIMULATES MUSCLE FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES-ADDED GROWTH
4) INCREASES METABOLIC RATE-IMPROVING MUSCLE TO FAT RATIO
5) INCREASED MUSCLE SIZE

CONS-
1) CAN LEAD TO OVER-TRAINING
2) TIME CONSUMING
3) REQUIRES MORE PROTEIN INTAKE
4) CAN LEAD TO A LACK OF STRENGTH GAINS

[guardian72]

Apparently I did not articulate my thoughts as clearly as I thought.
#1.
What I meant was: I see people training for 30-50 min afraid they are going to "overtrain", when not even applying maximal intensity to their workouts.
#2
I see people train 3 or 4 days a week total, afraid of "Overtraining".
#4
I pyramid up on every set making the last set of each exercise the lowest rep / highest weight. So for example I may perform an exercise with 15 reps, 12 reps, 10 reps. 8 reps, 4-6 reps with increasing weight each set.
#5
I see people every day using HIT; warming up with several sets and perfoming one "intense" set for each exercise.
#6
I hear people saying,"I remember when I trained like him; too much work."
What the heck, isn't work what we are SUPPOSED to do in the gym?

After reading the Slingshot post twice, (I am going to read it again), it makes a great deal of sense to break from volume and attempt to scale back the amount of sets / reps. I believe the most difficult part will be the mental aspect; that is , trying to convince myself that less is more.

G72

[muscle_20]

Nice posts guys.
Well personally my off season training usually goes on a 4 day per week or a 1 on one off split.
Several warm ups for each exercise which could in a way be called working sets that do not go to failure and then 1 set to failure i do between 2-7 exercises for each body part. So including warm ups total sets for lets say back could be 30 but i only count the end set where i put in max effort.
That said i some times do things like very high rep sets and all sort of other techniques, however, one variable never changes and thats gym time i am always done within 1 hour in fact i prefer to be done within 30 minutes if possible.

I guess i have always cycled my training but i go with how my body feels not some set routine ie i may go heavy on deadlifts in a lower rep range like 700lb for 3-5 reps per set for a couple of weeks and then i feel my cns is taking a beating so i drop it back and do 20 rep sets with 405lb.

Having trained as a powerlifter for many years (won a world and euro title as teen and junior) i have never been into forced reps i find them pretty useless at least for 99% of the time, i prefer straight sets but vary things like rep range.

[guardian72]

Good read Muscle 20,

Just out of curiosity...as far as the time in gym, have you always trained that way or is it a cyclic regimen? (1 hour sessions / month - 45 min sessions / month - 30 min sessions / month)

Thanks again for chiming in everyone, all input is food for thought.

G72

[Critical Mass]

Nice post.

I do what I consider high volume,which is 16 sets per bodypart. But I also like to switch it up a little. But I never spend more than 60-75 min in the gym.

Now that I know the pros and cons of low wolume-no more low wolume for me.
I wanna grow!

[muscle_20]

Good read Muscle 20,

Just out of curiosity...as far as the time in gym, have you always trained that way or is it a cyclic regimen? (1 hour sessions / month - 45 min sessions / month - 30 min sessions / month)

Thanks again for chiming in everyone, all input is food for thought.

G72

Oh i have tried all sorts of ways from Arnolds twice per day 6 days per week 2 hours per session all the way to Mike M heavy duty training once every 5 days and tons of stuff in the middle even BFT as Trevor Smith advised, i made great gains for 3 weeks and then over trained and made no further progress. I made progress on all routines but my very best gains have come from doing as little as possible not counting warm ups obviously and then resting.
I have also found my best gains when grouping my work outs legs, push, pull with 1 day between work outs.

What i have found the most important aspect to gaining size to be very controlled negatives as in when doing dips a 4 second negative then exploding up and repeat. The only way i have seen no gains is doing half ROM in the way guys like Ronnie Coleman do reps, it gave a pump sure but no actual size gains for me.

A 30 minute work out would be for example my leg work out 3 days ago, leg curls lying 3 heavy sets in the 6-8 rep range then 1 higher rep set on the 1 legged hammer curl then hack squats 1/2/3/4/5 plates 10 reps per set with a 6 second negative on every rep and then exploding up and then i did 1 legged extensions on the hammer unilateral extension machine 1 set high rep to failure very slow movement. For calves i did 1 triple drop set on both the seated and the donkey calve raise......i did a few warm ups on the leg curl and on the seated calve raise. This all in all took 28 minutes.

Honestly the 30 minute work outs are for when i am "supplument" free which i am atm for the next 6 months or so.....

[guardian72]

Oh i have tried all sorts of ways from Arnolds twice per day 6 days per week 2 hours per session all the way to Mike M heavy duty training once every 5 days and tons of stuff in the middle even BFT as Trevor Smith advised, i made great gains for 3 weeks and then over trained and made no further progress. I made progress on all routines but my very best gains have come from doing as little as possible not counting warm ups obviously and then resting.
I have also found my best gains when grouping my work outs legs, push, pull with 1 day between work outs.

What i have found the most important aspect to gaining size to be very controlled negatives as in when doing dips a 4 second negative then exploding up and repeat. The only way i have seen no gains is doing half ROM in the way guys like Ronnie Coleman do reps, it gave a pump sure but no actual size gains for me.

I've also tried those methods... from those 2-3 hour marathons to the Mentzer method, to half reps, to DoggCrapp, to 3 day a week power sessions.
I've come to find what works best for ME, which is all we as lifters can hope to achieve. If that's you in your avatar, it looks looks like you found what works best for you. I personally have to feel my early sets while I do them and my heavy sets the next day or two. I'd just like you to train with me in my style for a month, then I'll train with you for a month and see what would happen physiologically.

G72

[muscle_20]

I've also tried those methods... from those 2-3 hour marathons to the Mentzer method, to half reps, to DoggCrapp, to 3 day a week power sessions.
I've come to find what works best for ME, which is all we as lifters can hope to achieve. If that's you in your avatar, it looks looks like you found what works best for you. I personally have to feel my early sets while I do them and my heavy sets the next day or two. I'd just like you to train with me in my style for a month, then I'll train with you for a month and see what would happen physiologically.

G72

Indeed training with other people and completely following what they do can really blast you out of a plateau because there are certain things that one will always stay away from when training by one self. For me it would be giant sets i never do those for example.

Yes that is me in my avatar.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Nice post.

I do what I consider high volume,which is 16 sets per bodypart. But I also like to switch it up a little. But I never spend more than 60-75 min in the gym.

Now that I know the pros and cons of low wolume-no more low wolume for me.
I wanna grow!

You need to deload with lower volume in order to gain more from higher volume training.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Nice posts guys.
Well personally my off season training usually goes on a 4 day per week or a 1 on one off split.
Several warm ups for each exercise which could in a way be called working sets that do not go to failure and then 1 set to failure i do between 2-7 exercises for each body part. So including warm ups total sets for lets say back could be 30 but i only count the end set where i put in max effort.
That said i some times do things like very high rep sets and all sort of other techniques, however, one variable never changes and thats gym time i am always done within 1 hour in fact i prefer to be done within 30 minutes if possible.

I guess i have always cycled my training but i go with how my body feels not some set routine ie i may go heavy on deadlifts in a lower rep range like 700lb for 3-5 reps per set for a couple of weeks and then i feel my cns is taking a beating so i drop it back and do 20 rep sets with 405lb.

Having trained as a powerlifter for many years (won a world and euro title as teen and junior) i have never been into forced reps i find them pretty useless at least for 99% of the time, i prefer straight sets but vary things like rep range.

I also agree with you that training past failure with methods such as forced reps or rest pause are pretty useless 99% of the time and that straight sets are the way to go!

It doesn't surprise me that you have set records in power-lifting. You have some serious genetics!!!!!!

[jbm]

Both Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mike Mentzer were right on some things. For the best of both worlds you'll need to alternate between higher volume and lower volume training. What's considered higher volume for one person will not neccesarily be defined as higher volume for another person. For me, high volume is around 12 sets where as for someone else it could be as high as 24 sets or as low as maybe 6.

For me low volume is around 6 sets where as for someone else it could be only 3 sets or maybe as high as 10. With Slingshot Training you cycle what you consider is higher volume and lower volume while always training with high-intensity!

Some PROS and CONS of HIGH VOLUME and LOW VOLUME training

LOW VOLUME

PROS-
1) PREVENTS OVER-TRAINING OF CNS
2) GOOD FOR PEOPLE ON TIME CONSTRAINTS
3) ALLOWS AMPLE RECOVERY
4) REQUIRES LESS PROTEIN INTAKE
5) INCREASED STRENGTH GAINS

CONS-
1) LACK OF MUSCLE PUMP
2) LACK OF EXERCISE VARIETY
3) LACK OF TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBER STIMULATION-HENCE LESS MUSCLE SIZE
4) NOT SUITABLE FOR BEGINNERS


HIGH VOLUME

PROS-
1) MAXIMIZES STIMULATION OF GENES IN MUSCLE CELLS INVOLVED IN GROWTH ADN TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBERS
2) INCREASED PUMP-STRETCHES OUT FASCIA
3) STIMULATES MUSCLE FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES-ADDED GROWTH
4) INCREASES METABOLIC RATE-IMPROVING MUSCLE TO FAT RATIO
5) INCREASED MUSCLE SIZE

CONS-
1) CAN LEAD TO OVER-TRAINING
2) TIME CONSUMING
3) REQUIRES MORE PROTEIN INTAKE
4) CAN LEAD TO A LACK OF STRENGTH GAINS

very very nice!

[MuscleScience]

For about 99% of the population HIT vs High Volume is probably not going to make a huge difference in growth potential, simple because not everyone is looking to be huge and are no were near their growth potential. For highly trained individuals all the research points to some sort of program that takes advantage of some sort of periodized program set up. Something similar to Ronnie's Sling Shot Training System for example. Were the body is constantly being stimulated just as it tries to adapt, it gets hit with a new stimulus. At least I think thats how your program works Ronnie....:-)

[xnotoriousx]

One question, when you do the de-load, you're supposed to keep intensity up, right?

So are you supposed to goto failure with less warm-up sets or do you only do like 2 exercises?

[Swifto]

You need to deload with lower volume in order to gain more from higher volume training. If you are doing 16 sets per body part once a week as your higher volume training phase, then a lower volume training phase could be 8 sets once a week per body part. You would not want to reload (high volume training phase) for over 4 weeks straight before utilizing a 1-2 week deload (low volume training phase). You'll be surprised at the results!

4 weeks High Volume
2 weeks Low Volume

Is that correct Ronnie?

I've recently switched to HIT and have made the best gains of my life. Bigger and stronger than I have ever been. The gains are also still coming around 7 weeks into switching.

[eatrainrest]

2:1, 4:2 i believe are his recommendations

[guardian72]

I'm reading Slingshot for the 4th time and I seem to be missing something or several somethings.
1. During Deload, when volume is decreased, does weight on movements increase? It would seem to but it isn't 100% clear.
2. During a prime, only 2 sets per bodypart (excluding warmups)?
3. When Blasting, is reverse pymamiding OK for all movements?

I'm sure when this goes to a publisher, all of these issues will be resolved, I'm just being meticulous.

G72

[xnotoriousx]

I'm reading Slingshot for the 4th time and I seem to be missing something or several somethings.
1. During Deload, when volume is decreased, does weight on movements increase? It would seem to but it isn't 100% clear.
2. During a prime, only 2 sets per bodypart (excluding warmups)?



G72

Bump... Really want to know the answer to these two questions .

[F4iGuy]

You might get faster responses if you post these questions in the slingshot thread. He even made a template with sample exercises. If you don't feel like reading the entire thread just check the table of contents at the top.

[Misery13]

Both Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mike Mentzer were right on some things. For the best of both worlds you'll need to alternate between higher volume and lower volume training. What's considered higher volume for one person will not neccesarily be defined as higher volume for another person. For me, high volume is around 12 sets where as for someone else it could be as high as 24 sets or as low as maybe 6.

For me low volume is around 6 sets where as for someone else it could be only 3 sets or maybe as high as 10. With Slingshot Training you cycle what you consider is higher volume and lower volume while always training with high-intensity!

Some PROS and CONS of HIGH VOLUME and LOW VOLUME training

LOW VOLUME

PROS-
1) PREVENTS OVER-TRAINING OF CNS
2) GOOD FOR PEOPLE ON TIME CONSTRAINTS
3) ALLOWS AMPLE RECOVERY
4) REQUIRES LESS PROTEIN INTAKE
5) INCREASED STRENGTH GAINS

CONS-
1) LACK OF MUSCLE PUMP
2) LACK OF EXERCISE VARIETY
3) LACK OF TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBER STIMULATION-HENCE LESS MUSCLE SIZE
4) NOT SUITABLE FOR BEGINNERS


HIGH VOLUME

PROS-
1) MAXIMIZES STIMULATION OF GENES IN MUSCLE CELLS INVOLVED IN GROWTH ADN TYPE-2 MUSCLE FIBERS
2) INCREASED PUMP-STRETCHES OUT FASCIA
3) STIMULATES MUSCLE FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES-ADDED GROWTH
4) INCREASES METABOLIC RATE-IMPROVING MUSCLE TO FAT RATIO
5) INCREASED MUSCLE SIZE

CONS-
1) CAN LEAD TO OVER-TRAINING
2) TIME CONSUMING
3) REQUIRES MORE PROTEIN INTAKE
4) CAN LEAD TO A LACK OF STRENGTH GAINS

well put...everyone is different...and there bodies respond different...example my upper body grows faster and easier than my lower body...which sucks because I want my legs to excede my upper body...

[biodiversity]

I do the Max ot routine and its a form of HIT a weight that you can lift not less than 4 reps and not more than 6 reps, this workout was good for me size and strength but the top reason I do it is because of time constraint, making money for me is more important than gym and I have to find a way to get both so this routine was the way to go, and I think many guys who do HIT do it because of time, I want to try a routine like the Schwarzenegger one but too bad I don't have time.

[Mike Dura]

I agree that some people probably justify HIT because it's easier. When I cant get myself up for legs (volumewise) I just do HIT for maintenance. Generally though, I think the best results (for most people) is through volume style - focusing on the pump, hitting the muscle from every angle and with every concievable excercise for the reasons listed below.

Plus, I, like you, happen to enjoy long, timeless moments in the gym. I wouldn't do it if not for the immediate, raw, experience of training. I think it satisfies the neandathul within and then I go home and bring out garbage before my wife yells at me. We all need a place of uncivility - a little primal scene. I've been on this board for 4 years and I think most the young folks here have a superficial- and fleeting interest in the steroids over the lifestyle. I love training with or without drugs. It's definately the highlight of my day.

Apparently I did not articulate my thoughts as clearly as I thought.
#1.
What I meant was: I see people training for 30-50 min afraid they are going to "overtrain", when not even applying maximal intensity to their workouts.
#2
I see people train 3 or 4 days a week total, afraid of "Overtraining".
#4
I pyramid up on every set making the last set of each exercise the lowest rep / highest weight. So for example I may perform an exercise with 15 reps, 12 reps, 10 reps. 8 reps, 4-6 reps with increasing weight each set.
#5
I see people every day using HIT; warming up with several sets and perfoming one "intense" set for each exercise.
#6
I hear people saying,"I remember when I trained like him; too much work."
What the heck, isn't work what we are SUPPOSED to do in the gym?

After reading the Slingshot post twice, (I am going to read it again), it makes a great deal of sense to break from volume and attempt to scale back the amount of sets / reps. I believe the most difficult part will be the mental aspect; that is , trying to convince myself that less is more.

G72

[xnotoriousx]

I agree that some people probably justify HIT because it's easier. When I cant get myself up for legs (volumewise) I just do HIT for maintenance. Generally though, I think the best results (for most people) is through volume style - focusing on the pump, hitting the muscle from every angle and with every concievable excercise for the reasons listed below.

Plus, I, like you, happen to enjoy long, timeless moments in the gym. I wouldn't do it if not for the immediate, raw, experience of training. I think it satisfies the neandathul within and then I go home and bring out garbage before my wife yells at me. We all need a place of uncivility - a little primal scene. I've been on this board for 4 years and I think most the young folks here have a superficial- and fleeting interest in the steroids over the lifestyle. I love training with or without drugs. It's definately the highlight of my day.

I can respect that. Good outlook man.

[Vires]

Plus, I, like you, happen to enjoy long, timeless moments in the gym. I wouldn't do it if not for the immediate, raw, experience of training. I think it satisfies the neandathul within and then I go home and bring out garbage before my wife yells at me. We all need a place of uncivility - a little primal scene. I've been on this board for 4 years and I think most the young folks here have a superficial- and fleeting interest in the steroids over the lifestyle. I love training with or without drugs. It's definately the highlight of my day.

Cheers to this!

[Ronnie Rowland]

for highly trained individuals all the research points to some sort of program that takes advantage of some sort of periodized program set up. Something similar to ronnie's sling shot training system for example. Were the body is constantly being stimulated just as it tries to adapt, it gets hit with a new stimulus. At least i think thats how your program works ronnie....:-)

yes!

[Ronnie Rowland]

One question, when you do the de-load, you're supposed to keep intensity up, right? Yes!

So are you supposed to goto failure with less warm-up sets or do you only do like 2 exercises?

You can do 2-4 exercises per major body part like the chest during a reload. When you deload you can continue using the same 2-4 exercises or if you had been using 4 exercises during a reload you could drop down to only 2 if desired. The variables are many and very individualistic.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I'm reading Slingshot for the 4th time and I seem to be missing something or several somethings.
1. During Deload, when volume is decreased, does weight on movements increase? It would seem to but it isn't 100% clear. (IT'S GOOD PRACTICE TO INCREASE WEIGHTS AND REDUCE REPS ON COMPOUND EXERCISES IN PARTICULAR BUT IT'S NOT MANDATORY).
2. During a prime, only 2 sets per bodypart (excluding warmups)? (Around 4 HIGH REP SETS PER MAJOR BODY TAKEN 2 REPS SHY OF FAILURE DURING PRIME AND THE PRIME IS ONLY UTILIZED WHEN BURNOUT OCCURS. GAINS ARE MADE DURING THE BLAST WHICH CONSIST OF RELOADING AND DELOADING!) 3. When Blasting, is reverse pymamiding OK for all movements? ABSOLUTELY!
I'm sure when this goes to a publisher, all of these issues will be resolved, I'm just being meticulous.

G72

Great questions. Answered above in bold.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I do the Max ot routine and its a form of HIT a weight that you can lift not less than 4 reps and not more than 6 reps, this workout was good for me size and strength but the top reason I do it is because of time constraint, making money for me is more important than gym and I have to find a way to get both so this routine was the way to go, and I think many guys who do HIT do it because of time, I want to try a routine like the Schwarzenegger one but too bad I don't have time.

4-6 reps can work but it will most likely cause you to have joint problems at an early age, especially if you train to failure. I would suggest higher reps for the most part (8-15)!

[Ronnie Rowland]

4 weeks high volume
2 weeks low volume

is that correct ronnie?

I've recently switched to hit and have made the best gains of my life. Bigger and stronger than i have ever been. The gains are also still coming around 7 weeks into switching.

8 weeks reload-higher volume
2 weeks deload-lower volume

[biodiversity]

4-6 reps can work but it will most likely cause you to have joint problems at an early age, especially if you train to failure. I would suggest higher reps for the most part (8-15)!

well it seem you are right on this issue, I am now in a week off because of joint problems especially my elbows, anyway i am loading on vit C and glutamine hope it can get better fast.

[Ronnie Rowland]

well it seem you are right on this issue, I am now in a week off because of joint problems especially my elbows, anyway i am loading on vit C and glutamine hope it can get better fast.

I've been around a long time and seen a lot of people with mangled joints by training wrong. Don't get me wrong, you can get injured using any training system (including mine) when you are training hard but straight sets coupled with proper periodization (reloading/deloading/priming), not training beyond failure and working in the correct rep-range with the proper form will help prevent most injuries. Slingshot Training is the best way to go if you value your joints and want to gain the most size. In fact, it's the way most pro-bodybuilders train year round.

Note: Powerlifting is not bodybuilding and strength, like muscle size is greatly determined by genetics. For example, most of us could train with low reps and never get as strong as muscle 20 because he has the genetics of a tank. I've stood right next to this guy and no training system in the world is going to change my tendon thickness, tendon insertions and biomechanics to out lift him in power-lifting movements. He's built thick like a gorilla...lol...Many people are not born with the genetic makeup to be make it to the top-level in weight lifting. muscle 20 is built to lift weights-period!! All we can do is make the best of what we have.

[biodiversity]

I've been around a long time and seen a lot of people with mangled joints by training wrong. Don't get me wrong, you can get injured using any training system (including mine) when you are training hard but straight sets coupled with proper periodization (reloading/deloading/priming), not training beyond failure and working in the correct rep-range with the proper form will help prevent most injuries. Slingshot Training is the best way to go if you value your joints and want to gain the most size. In fact, it's the way most pro-bodybuilders train year round.

Note: Powerlifting is not bodybuilding and strength, like muscle size is greatly determined by genetics. For example, most of us could train with low reps and never get as strong as muscle 20 because he has the genetics of a tank. I've stood right next to this guy and no training system in the world is going to change my tendon thickness, tendon insertions and biomechanics to out lift him in power-lifting movements. He's built thick like a gorilla...lol...Many people are not born with the genetic makeup to be make it to the top-level in weight lifting. muscle 20 is built to lift weights-period!! All we can do is make the best of what we have.

even if you abuse HGH ?