help me change up my routine

[elfin1mf]

I am on tren and test for mass and eating tons.

here is what I did today
chest shoulders and abs
bench 3 sets 6 - 8 reps, 3 sets incline bench 4 - 6 reps, 2 sets overhead press 8 reps, db flies... need help on this one.. but I have never been able to get a good pump on my chest with these no matter what I try... Cables work, but I do not have a decent cable machine... any way also did 2 sets arnolds 8 - 10 reps, and front and side shoulder db raises, 2 set each. Not satisfied with chest.
I really like dips, tri or side, they work my chest well, should I add them or sub them in?

If you would be so kind, help me build on this and get a new schedule going.

[jjfman]

yoo every chest session i do i get a real good pump out of it but maybe its just differnet for me anyways heres what i do...
i have my chest workout set up in to different categories of exercises, compound for thickness development, isolation for width and peak for the pumped look u desire lol

3 sets of flat bench press 3x6-10 reps
3 sets incline bench press 3x6-10 reps
3 sets decline bench press 3x6-10 reps (hitting all areas of the chest to make sure it is well developed)
DB flies 3x10 reps (i usually do 4 weeks incline then change to 4 weeks flat etc)
a pec dec machince or cables is great for the peak contraction which i use and get my big pump from but it can be achieved without.
you can simply superset your DB flies starting with a heavy weights then using a light weight straight after make sure at the top of the contraction you squeeze the pecs to recieve a peak contraction.
any more questions please ask away

[jjfman]

i forgot one massssiveee excercise for a pump simply by ending your workout with 100 press ups =D doing this will make sure your chest is exhausted and it will feel so pumped that its going to burst lol you can change up this exercise by having your feet balanced on a exercise ball which also works the core great. do as many press ups as you can then rest NO MORE THAN 2 MINUTES lol for example you may get 30 press ups out rest then only get 15 press ups out just keep going until you reach 100

[elfin1mf]

ye somehow my lats got worked any my lower chest did not, Which made it difficult to do my back exercises. I think I will just do a flat bench 3 sets and then 3 sets of hunched weighted dips to focus on my lower chest. I will try your db fly method. When you do the flies, do you have a small bend in the elbow or locked elbow or a big bend in the elbow? I just use a small bend because that seems to be how everyone else is doing it.

so here ya go

chest / shoul

3 sets bench press
3 sets hunched weighted dips
2 sets flies
2 sets overheads
2 sets rear delts (any rear delt exercise)
2 sets side delts (any)
at this point if anything does no feel pumped I will do more for that area.

next work day

traps / back / biceps (forearms will be destroyed too)

upright rows 3 sets (focus on the traps)
locked leg deadlifts 2 sets (maybe I should just sub in a power clean but I suck at those... so maybe next time if my lats do not feel overworked I will also do some regular rows)
close grip weighted pullups 2 sets (I do these on a ledge or with a plank, focuses more on my back with out working shoulddrs but also kills forearms)
mid grip pullups 2 sets
preacher curls 2 sets (at this point my fore arms where way too tired to go further but I tried anyway)
standing curls 2 sets, standing hammer curls 2 sets. (my forearms locked up on me and I did not get a good enough pump in my biceps, damn. my biceps are my best feature though, so maybe this is due to my biceps being stronger than my fore arms.)

In the future I just want to do 1 really tough set of hammer curls and 1 tough set of standing curls. My biceps work best under lots of stress in a single set.

ye big problems here because I was trying not to work my lats because they were sore and I dunno why.

So next I plan on

Triceps obviously and what else? Maybe throw my legs in with triceps and then break for a couple days and try out my new chest/shoulders?

[jjfman]

i think maybe your lats felt as though they wer being worked because your lats and chest work as a pair in the pushing and pulling action or abduction and aduction movement but thats getting deep into the science of it lol i recomend you try the session i said once more maybe wen your lats arent so sore just simply because without doubt it will develop all areas of the chest.
also on your shoulder workout it is essential for you to have a big compound exercise either that be a DB or barbell shoulder press or DB arnies (arnies tend to work more of the shoulder)

[elfin1mf]

You really think all those angles are necessary? People say my shoulders are huge compared to my chest and the more benches I do the bigger my shoulders get. idk, maybe it is my form? I just lay down and push.. Do you recommend touching the bar to my chest every rep or going only halfway to chest sometimes?

[jjfman]

Flat,incline and decline are definayley neccessary if you are looking to build q good full chest.
Only doing half reps on the bench press definayley brings the shoulders into the exercise alot more, you dont need to touch the Bar to your chest but by bringing it about an inch or 2 inches from your chest will work the pecs alot more also for the pumped look if you bring the bar an inch or 2feom the chest then push up and leave a slight bend In the elbows in otherwords do not lock them out to full extension your chest will not exit a contracted state. If you cannot manage this comfotably don't feel bad about droppingthe weight remember never ever sacrifi form for weight if you stick to this motto and keep good form you will soon make gains.

[jjfman]

also make sure the bar is over your mid chest.

[elfin1mf]

which bench press works the lower chest? and how can I stop benches from hitting my front delts as much?

Also,what should I do for legs? Today I did like 3 or 4 squat sets with different leg widths. Then I did a set of ham raises with weights strapped on and then did a set of the opposite. I think I should not work my legs to as much weight as they can take, legs are trickier for me. Maybe I should do like 6 sets of squats with less weight. I also did a few sets of triceps isolations. O ye I did a set of calves too and they were burning bad so I only did 1 really tough set. Calves for me respond well to max weight.

I just always feel like I should do more...

[jjfman]

Decline bench press will work the lower chest. Try pinning your shoulders back and sticking your chest out to cut down emphasis on the delts wen benching, but remember the delts will always be in use wen performing a pushing action. I sugget you search for bench pressing technique videos on YouTube that will give you a better idea of wer to position your body.

Personally for my legs I find shoulder width squats with a weight I can manage to go deep on each rep works great forthe quads,glutes and hamstrings also deadlifting is a good e efcise for strength in the quads. For calves I usually do a lighter weight and high reps as they are I only a small muscle and can easily be damaged. Really if your looking to build you may needs to re think your full schedule I am currently using a mass buildi g programme would you like me to put this up for you??
Also remeber not to over train otherwise you will be undoing any gains you may have made.

[elfin1mf]

yes please post man, BUT if it has cleans or full total body deadlifts keep in mind I do not want to do these and I think they are too dangerous for me to do at home.

[ranging1]

hey mate i havent read this whole thread so correct me or inform me of something ive missed

FIRST can u tell me what your cycle consists of and what dosages your running, since this obviously effects the level of volume you can train with

first i should mention you cant target lower chest, ur pectorial is a single muscle group which is used wholely in a pressing movement

the more decline you do the more you target ur chest

the more incline you place the weight on your shoulders and triceps

the closer ur grip the more tricep work you do

so when designing a chest workout remeber those things, since itll effect the rest of your weeks workout


can u post for me ur EXACT whole routine for each muscle group

and ur weekly split monday-sunday so we can tune it properly

[jjfman]

right mate heres my workout plan for ye, hopefully it will help.
note that i do not do all these exercises every session these are just the ones i find best for me to build mass.


Shoulders all 3 sets 6-10 reps
DB or Balbell shoulder press
Upright row
DB Rear Delts Flys
DB Arnies
(A superset of 3 sets 10-12 reps each exercise) DB side lateral Raise then straight into barbell shrugs.

Chest all 3 sets6-10 reps
DB or barbell flat bench press
DB or barbell incline bench press
DB or Barbell decline bench press
DB Flys alternate incline, flat decline every so often
Pec Dec Machine
100-150 Press ups either flat in the ground or with feet up on an exercise ball to engage the core.

Back all 3 sets 6-10 reps
Wide arm pull ups ( 3 sets of maximum reps)
behind the head lat pulldown
seated cable Row
bent over Barbell row
DB row
Deadlift
T-bar Row

Arms all 3 sets 6-10 reps
incline DB curls
DB hammer curls
EZ bar preacher curls

[jjfman]

right mate heres my workout plan for ye, hopefully it will help.
note that i do not do all these exercises every session these are just the ones i find best for me to build mass.


Shoulders all 3 sets 6-10 reps
DB or Balbell shoulder press
Upright row
DB Rear Delts Flys
DB Arnies
(A superset of 3 sets 10-12 reps each exercise) DB side lateral Raise then straight into barbell shrugs.

Chest all 3 sets6-10 reps
DB or barbell flat bench press
DB or barbell incline bench press
DB or Barbell decline bench press
DB Flys alternate incline, flat decline every so often
Pec Dec Machine
100-150 Press ups either flat in the ground or with feet up on an exercise ball to engage the core.

Back all 3 sets 6-10 reps
Wide arm pull ups ( 3 sets of maximum reps)
behind the head lat pulldown
seated cable Row
bent over Barbell row
DB row
Deadlift
T-bar Row

Arms all 3 sets 6-10 reps
incline DB curls
DB hammer curls
EZ bar preacher curls
reverse Grip barbell curl (forearm)
Tricep Cable Drop Set (10 reps heavy, 10 reps moderate, 10 reps light)
i also superset my triceps by doing close grip bench 10 reps, DB skull crushers 10 reps.

Abs
Hanging Leg Raises (find an amount of reps you feel is a good workout)
Superset - 20 Sit ups with twist, 20 bicycles, 20 crunches, to harden this superset i hold a weight behind my head.

Legs
DB Clean, squat to press
Half squat to barbell Press
Barbell Squats (DEEP!!!)
Straight leg dead lift
hamstring curls
calve shrugs

if there is anything i have forgot or anything else u would like to know about my workout please ask.

[elfin1mf]

ranging1, can you post a good workout plan which targets every muscle, preferably includes dips, has no power cleans or deadlifts, and does not use cables. Also this is for someone on cyce, 700/700 tne/tren weekly.

[ranging1]

ranging1, can you post a good workout plan which targets every muscle, preferably includes dips, has no power cleans or deadlifts, and does not use cables. Also this is for someone on cyce, 700/700 tne/tren weekly.

i can understand the power cleans and no cable use

but wtf no deadlifts? gotta be joking man, you wanna gain size you need to deadlift

why dont u wanna deadlift?

wow thats a shit load of gear, how big are you??????

ill modify jiffmans workout since his is along the correct program

right mate heres my workout plan for ye, hopefully it will help.
note that i do not do all these exercises every session these are just the ones i find best for me to build mass.

split
monday: legs
tuesday:chest, abs
wednesday: rest
thursday: back
friday:shoulders, triceps
saturday: biceps, calves, abs
sunday: rest

Shoulders
3 sets DB shoulder press, reps 6, 8, 8
1 set machine shoulder press reps 10
3 dropsets Upright rows, rep 8, 8, 8 each drop set should add another 4 reps
2 dropsets side raises reps 10, 12
2 sets barbell shrugs, reps 10, 12
2 drop sets barbell shrugs, reps 6, 8 with 4-5 on the drop set

Chest
2 sets barbell flat bench press reps, 6, 8,
1 dropset flat bench press 6 reps with 4-5 on the drop set
3 sets barbell incline bench press reps, 6, 8, 10
3 sets flat bench dumbell press reps 6, 8, 8
2 sets Barbell decline bench press reps, 8, 6
1 dropsets barbell decline bench press reps 6 with 4-5 on drop set
2 sets weighted dips, reps 10, 6

Back
2 sets Wide arm pull ups with added weight (attach some plates to a weight belt) reps, 8, 10
2 sets pull ups with added weight, using a v bar, reps 6, 6
3 sets T-bar Row, reps 6, 8, 8
3 sets DB row reps, 8, 10, 12
3 sets Deadlift, reps 6, 8, 4
3 sets seated row, using lat pull down bar with wide grip, reps 8 , 10 12
3 sets rear delt flys or use a rear delt machine exercise, reps 8, 12, 10

Biceps
incline DB curls 2 sets
DB hammer curls 3 sets
dumbell preacher curls 3 sets
reverse Grip barbell curl (forearm) 3 sets, great exercise

Triceps
3 drop sets close grip bench press, reps, 4, 6, 8, with 4 reps on each drop set
1 set close grip bench press, reps 10
3 sets one arm over head dumbell extensions, reps 8, 10, 10
2-3 sets straight bar lying skull crushers

Abs
superset (meaning dont stop between sets) of
40 crunches
40 lying leg raises off bench, hands behind head (lower ab exercise)
30 double crunches, hands behing head
30 hanging leg raises
20 hanging pikes
40 decline sit ups, hands behind head

Legs
2 sets squat, reps, 8, 10
2 drop sets squat, reps, 6, 8 with 4 reps on drop set
2 sets 45 degree leg press, reps, 8, 6, 10
1 sets machine squat, reps 10
1 dropset machine squat reps 6, with 4-5 on drop set
3 sets Stiff leg dead lift, reps 8, 10, 10
hamstring curls, reps, 10, 12, 15 (choose any leg curl exercise except kneeling leg curl)

Calves
2 sets standing calve raise machine, rep 12, 12
2 sets calve raises using 45 degree leg press, reps, 10, 12

if there is anything i have forgot or anything else u would like to know about my workout please ask.

[elfin1mf]

this split is great, shoulder day also works traps and tris, sounds about right to me! Although, I do not like traditional ab exercises so I will not be employing those.
Oh and can I use a backpack instead of weight belt? I hate weight belts, and backpacks never get in the way for me. I got a good one that can handle tons of weight which I use.

[elfin1mf]

I didnt mean lock leg d lifts man, just the ones that are a power clean, AND an overhead press in the same exercise.

AND I agree calves NEED a machine to get good results.

[ranging1]

this split is great, shoulder day also works traps and tris, sounds about right to me! Although, I do not like traditional ab exercises so I will not be employing those.
Oh and can I use a backpack instead of weight belt? I hate weight belts, and backpacks never get in the way for me. I got a good one that can handle tons of weight which I use.

yes back paks fine, i use to une one until i was putting 45kg into it and found it was pulling down on my shoulders to much when i did pull ups

I didnt mean lock leg d lifts man, just the ones that are a power clean, AND an overhead press in the same exercise.

AND I agree calves NEED a machine to get good results.

okay cool nps, im not a big fan of power cleans either, even though they are probably a good exercise

but good, make sure you do ur deadlifts

yes i agree to about machine for calves, using free weight have always been un productive for me since its very awkawrd to train calves heavy with free weights

so what do you plan on doing for ab exercises then?

[t-gunz]

ranging1 is gay... dont listen to him..... muhahahahah








only joking i love ya

[ranging1]

ranging1 is gay... dont listen to him..... muhahahahah








only joking i love ya

dont listen to this guy, he comes from a part of austrlaia where gay hippis live

no joke they sell pot in his street openly on a stand

weird place

[elfin1mf]

I think your lower ab exercise is important, but it is incomplete. The simple lifting with the legs is not enough to work them properly. You also need a pulling motion at the same time to REALLY focus on that V look imo. Also instead of hanging leg lifts, I like to tie my legs to a heavy object and pull them up and in while grappling something to keep my upper body in place.

[elfin1mf]

OK here is am important question. What would happen if I did not do any more bicep isolations for the next few months? I do not want my biceps to get any bigger, they respond freakishly well to weight training. I know it would not speed up the recovery of my other muscle groups, but i really have decided no more biceps for at least the rest of this cycle. Should I sub muscle group in for biceps or should I just use that day for extra rest?

[ranging1]

if you dont want ur biceps bigger then just do a few sets for them, e.g 3-4 sets in a workout just to make sure u do train them slightly to maintain them

each workout just stick to that weight and rep range so u maintain that size

[Bossman]

hey mate i havent read this whole thread so correct me or inform me of something ive missed

FIRST can u tell me what your cycle consists of and what dosages your running, since this obviously effects the level of volume you can train with

first i should mention you cant target lower chest, ur pectorial is a single muscle group which is used wholely in a pressing movement

the more decline you do the more you target ur chest

the more incline you place the weight on your shoulders and triceps

the closer ur grip the more tricep work you do

so when designing a chest workout remeber those things, since itll effect the rest of your weeks workout


can u post for me ur EXACT whole routine for each muscle group

and ur weekly split monday-sunday so we can tune it properly

This is flawed. You can put emphasis on and break down different areas of your chest depending on the angle and grip width. Presses are a compound movement so you always involve other muscle groups; delts, and tris.

For a completely developed pec, you should incorporate flat, incline and decline in your workouts.

When doing inclines you're putting more stress on your upper pecs, breaking down more muscle fiber in your UPPER pecs. My workout partner tore 3 upper pec tendons from the bone inclining 495 lbs. He tore those tendons because that's where the stress was being put on pecs during incline.

There needs to be a balance. Too much emphasis on flat/decline bench and you will have droopy pecs. Incline will help and close grip bench will help round out your pecs.

[elfin1mf]

ye I have heard this many times, and it feels true. Although I gotta admit no matter what angle I bench from it still works my upper chest a whole lot.

[elfin1mf]

I did legs today, but before I could finish 1 set of machines (after doing all the other squat exercises), I could do no more. SO jumped into the hams and deads and my legs felt destroyed. 3 hours later my legs felt fine, as if I did not work out at all.. What do you guys suggest?

[ranging1]

This is flawed. You can put emphasis on and break down different areas of your chest depending on the angle and grip width. Presses are a compound movement so you always involve other muscle groups; delts, and tris.

For a completely developed pec, you should incorporate flat, incline and decline in your workouts.

When doing inclines you're putting more stress on your upper pecs, breaking down more muscle fiber in your UPPER pecs. My workout partner tore 3 upper pec tendons from the bone inclining 495 lbs. He tore those tendons because that's where the stress was being put on pecs during incline.

There needs to be a balance. Too much emphasis on flat/decline bench and you will have droopy pecs. Incline will help and close grip bench will help round out your pecs.

the pectorial is one major muscle group

are u trying to tell me that when u do movment like incline etc u dont breakdown the whole pectorial muscle, but instead u breakdown sections of it which gives it different looks?

id have to say that ur just saying this based on your own personal experiences an BRO science

this is like trying to say you can change the shape of your bicep, when in fact their NO MEDICAL proof that people can do this

the only evidence shown in the current medical world is genetics determine the development of a muscle group

people blief that they can change the shape of their biceps or other muscle groups have never been proven, so you cant say by doing different exercises u can bring out different shapes in a muscle

agree with you YOU MUST do all different exercises and angles for chest to help give you better overall development for other muscle groups used in the same motions

but not to help shape ur pectorials differently

[ranging1]

I did legs today, but before I could finish 1 set of machines (after doing all the other squat exercises), I could do no more. SO jumped into the hams and deads and my legs felt destroyed. 3 hours later my legs felt fine, as if I did not work out at all.. What do you guys suggest?

push harder

[elfin1mf]

hahah ok man good advice. harder = better. Bigger = better>>> bodybuilding math.

[Bossman]

the pectorial is one major muscle group

are u trying to tell me that when u do movment like incline etc u dont breakdown the whole pectorial muscle, but instead u breakdown sections of it which gives it different looks?

id have to say that ur just saying this based on your own personal experiences an BRO science

this is like trying to say you can change the shape of your bicep, when in fact their NO MEDICAL proof that people can do this

the only evidence shown in the current medical world is genetics determine the development of a muscle group

people blief that they can change the shape of their biceps or other muscle groups have never been proven, so you cant say by doing different exercises u can bring out different shapes in a muscle

agree with you YOU MUST do all different exercises and angles for chest to help give you better overall development for other muscle groups used in the same motions

[B]This is some funny shit. So you should train incline to better develop other muscle groups rather then the pectorals...
[/B]
but not to help shape ur pectorials differently

It's not only based on my experience but countless others. And yes, changing the muscle shape is done all the time. You can add upper pec thickness by training with the incline. Muscle manipulation is limited to tendon insertion but there are many ways to shape muscle.

[ranging1]

It's not only based on my experience but countless others. And yes, changing the muscle shape is done all the time. You can add upper pec thickness by training with the incline. Muscle manipulation is limited to tendon insertion but there are many ways to shape muscle.

im not saying i train incline to target just other muscles, i do do them for obvius overall chest development, but its for variation to a workout to help stimulate growth, not to help shape the pecs differently

as for changing the muscle shape, i dont think its debatable since some people tend to believe it possible, while many others dont (me personaly since theirs no evidence to prove it) and genetics usually tends ot be the key to this puzzle rather then training style

[Bossman]

im not saying i train incline to target just other muscles, i do do them for obvius overall chest development, but its for variation to a workout to help stimulate growth, not to help shape the pecs differently

as for changing the muscle shape, i dont think its debatable since some people tend to believe it possible, while many others dont (me personaly since theirs no evidence to prove it) and genetics usually tends ot be the key to this puzzle rather then training style

There's no doubt genetics are a limiting factor in some aspects of our physiques. But there are many ways to shape and change a particular muscle group.

If you're experienced in bodybuilding you would know that "all" bodybuilders are a work in progress. Every year we cut down and access our physiques to determine where we need improvement. It could be upper chest thickness, inner chest detail, or lower pec development. Throughout the off season the workouts will be taylored to improve those week areas. Maybe we need more peak on our biceps. Better delt/arm tie in. All of those things and more can be improved upon.

This is not bodybuilding 101 though. This is advanced bodybuilding. Saying you don't believe it because you haven't seen it just means you need to grow some more to experience it. If you continue, you will.

[ranging1]

There's no doubt genetics are a limiting factor in some aspects of our physiques. But there are many ways to shape and change a particular muscle group.

If you're experienced in bodybuilding you would know that "all" bodybuilders are a work in progress. Every year we cut down and access our physiques to determine where we need improvement. It could be upper chest thickness, inner chest detail, or lower pec development. Throughout the off season the workouts will be taylored to improve those week areas. Maybe we need more peak on our biceps. Better delt/arm tie in. All of those things and more can be improved upon.

This is not bodybuilding 101 though. This is advanced bodybuilding. Saying you don't believe it because you haven't seen it just means you need to grow some more to experience it. If you continue, you will.

im still a big believer in genetics

its hard to acknowledge advance bodybuilders methods becuase given the circumstances they are heavily geared up usually or using other methods of enhancment to bring out their muscles

not saying that bringing out lagging muscle sisnt possible, but the ability to shape a muscle(e.g bicep peak) i think is VERY limited to how ur genetics are structured

if ti was possible to shape a bicep u would see almost all pro bodybuilders get on stage with a great and narrow bicep peak

they might be able to help change the shape of their muscle minimaly, but to a descent extent im still going to still argue against you that you cant shape a muscle the way you want (to an extent)

now lets stop debating about this coz were both stubborn as hell and we both know in bodybuilding theirs all different myths and stlyes and beliefs on what works and how it works

[elfin1mf]

for a very long time, I was pretty much doing strength training. 5reps per set. It is surprising to me how much weight I need to reduce from each exercise to get the extra 3-7 reps per set. It seems like I am a weakling lol. Actually though, I feel different after a workout. Much better.