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I did some searching but still confused.
Am cardio on empty stomach is good for fat burning because your glycogen stores are already depleted so your body uses fat for energy right?
I think that HIIT cardio depletes gylcogen storages faster then LIT?
If ones gylcogen storages were already depleted from a Keto diet and wanted to fully deplete them prior to a cheat/carb up day wouldn't doing HIIT cardio right before help to fully delete them or would LIT be preferred?
Over a longer peroid (10-12 weeks) HIIT is better at reducing bodyfar than low/moderate intensity. Low/moderate intensity will burn more fat at the time, than HIIT. HIIT is superoir postexercise though.Quote:
Originally Posted by edgarr
Peak fat oxidation occurs at 63% VO2 max if your wanting to do low/moderate.
yeah, you're confused for a reason. It's a really difficult subject. Nobody has all the answers unless they can monitor your blood chemistry constantly and work out what works best for your exact body.
there are still no conclusive studies about morning cardio being more effective
the thinking being your body is going to use the fat you eat before the fat you store
however it could be the most catabolic time to do cardio as far as muscle because your glycogen stores are low. Muscle in absense of ketosis prefers glucose with the exception of cardiac muscle. Both schools of thought make sense and it comes down to what works for you. Idk what my opinion is on the subject since I'm too lazy to do cardio in the AM.
HITT burns little actual fat during performance compared to carbs, but through the compensatory burning fat at an accelerated rate post workout. You'll get a much better after burn.
Hitt also appears to stimulate hormones conducive to fat loss and muscle gain, and ireases fast twitch muscle fibres. Also a much more effect to performance levels.
With low intensity you can tap fat stores without influencing muscle glycogen to as great a degree. And it can be performed daily and is beneficial for recovery. However it takes a buttload of time to get any results.
Low intensity in theory should be a much better partner to a keto type diet.
Hitt in theory would be bad pre carb up because of the after burn. Keep in mind you're trying to restore glycogen levels, not burn up excess blood glucose on a carb up.
Plus your glycogen levels should be non-existant pre carb up and ketones aren't very good for quick energy and therefore your hitt workout would have to be catabolic.
IMO, keto diets work well, but not combined with high intesity
I hate low intensity cardio so I don't do keto diets
HITT is great for attaining ketosis, but not so great durring ketosis.
here's some info on workout time of day
Research on the Best Time to Exercise
While there is specific research being conducted on this topic, unfortunately the answer to the question, "What is the best time for exercise?" varies based upon the specific question you ask, your training goals, and your exercise adherence. Here are some of the latest specific research findings:
•Late Afternoon is Best for Exercise
Research shows that the optimal time to exercise is when our body temperature is at its highest, which, for most people is 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. (body temperature is at its lowest just before waking).
•Strength is Greater in the Afternoon
Dr. Hill reported that strength output is 5% higher at around mid-day; anaerobic performance, such as sprinting, improves by 5% in the late afternoon.
•Endurance is Greater in the Afternoon
Aerobic capacity (endurance) is approximately 4% higher in the afternoon.
•Injuries Are Less Likely in the Afternoon
Afternoon exercise is the best if you want to avoid injuries for many reasons. We are most alert; our body temperature is the highest so our muscles are warm and flexible; and our muscle strength is at its greatest. These three factors make it less likely that we will get injured.
•Morning Exercisers Are More Consistent
Even though afternoon exercise might be optimal from a physiological standpoint, research also shows that morning exercisers are more likely to stick to it that late-day athletes. help prevent injury be a good way to prevent injury and get maximum performance, but he said that the most important thing is a consistent exercise regimen.
•Evening Exercise and Sleep
Most research supports the idea that exercise can improve sleep quality. But does exercising too late in the evening keep you up? Studies have shown improvements in sleep from both morning and afternoon exercise, so it's not yet clear if evening exercise keeps you up. One study even showed that vigorous exercise half an hour before bedtime did not affect sleep.
That's basically all we know for sure, the rest is all theory until more study is done. Yeah, I copy and pasted that, I forget from where.
If I were to speculate, and this is all from my disfunctional brain so don't ask me to prove it.
HITT in the AM before eating is bad...as in you'd probably be better off doing your hitt when you have more glycogen rather then less.
Low intensity would be the better choice if you subsribe to the AM cardio philosophy.
once in ketosis
low intensity is the way to go
multiple low intensity sessions may be benificial
as in going in the morning and afternoon to allow the blood supply of ketones to rebound and then reburn.
^^^^ Thanks great information!
Safe to say that HIIT is bad when trying to restore gylcogen storage becuase it continues to deplete them far after completion. LIT would be better choice so long as it is kept at a minimum time interval not exceeding 60-65% of max heart rate?
It depends how long you do a carb upQuote:
Originally Posted by edgarr
for example some people like to do a 36 + hour carb up, and you could slip in a high intensity cardio session.
the minimum a carb up should be would be 24hours and should include long acting healthy carbs...sweet potatoes, brown rice ect.
the reason for a longer carb up would be to keep your body from regulating to the consistant low level of insulin and high level of glucogon...but you know, more controversy. There is no set amount of time a carb up should be and some people advocate just one cheat meal per week.
the simplest way I can explain the whole glycogen thing would start with a quote from my molecular biology prof who was quoting Janis Joplin lol.
"what's you're body's number one goal when it comes to metabolism?"
"feed your head"
fats can't cross the blood brain barrier, therefore the brain can't burn them
so, no matter what your body is going to maintain a minimum level of glucose in the blood that is not up for debate with any other tissue in your body.
the brain however can burn ketones to minimize glucose consumption
but only once you are in ketosis
muscles love to burn glucose but will burn fatty acids or ketones
cardiac muscle aka your heart is the only thing that acutally burns fat as a matter of preference.
fat can become ketones
most tissues can use ketones in ketosis including the brain
almost all tissues like to use carbs
carbs can convert to protein or fat
protein can convert to carbs
but fat can become neither protein or carbs
ketones are not a very responsive fuel source
high intensity low glycogen cardio = you'll feel yourself hit the wall pretty quick and is not very muscle sparing
there is plenty of science on the subject, but a lot of controversy and potential debate...and no two people are exactly the same, or are even happy or able to stand following the same routine as maybe someone else.
Not to be a smartass but "Feed your head" was from White Rabbit, Jefferson Airplane.
Thank you for asking and answering this question, I have been wondering it for a while. I've been on Keto like Edgarr.
^idk why I confuse the two, I'm sure he knew what band he was quoting since he was a hippy^
good song though, thanks for the correction
Thank you for the the good info. It helps us Keto guys out.
Now I'm second guessing the cardio I am doing. Am I defeating trying to get to Ketosis?
I do 45-50 mins in the am about 2:15 hours after my first meal which is a pro/fat that only has 270 cals. Eight hours later I do 25-30 mins after my workout. I do both of these at 60-65% of my max HRT, LIT, 5 days a week.
I follow a keto diet M-F and carb up Sat through mid day Sunday.
Or as usual, am I over thinking this?
This shit is confusing!!!!! Basically I am trying to get the best of both worlds. My split right now is MON-Wed-FRI so I do HIIT on mon-wed fri and medium intensity cardio for 30 minutes on tue-thurs-sat, seems to be working. My HIIT Cardio is 2 rounds of Tabata. For people who dont know Tabata is a 4 minute circuit HIIT cardio workout. You Pick 4 exercises and do 2 rounds of them , 20 seconds working, 10 second rest.
EMAMPLE
Burpees- 20 seconds
Rest - 10 seconds
Mountain climbers - 20 seconds
rest- 10
Butt kicks- 20 seconds
rest- 10
Jumping jacks- 30 seconds
You repeat this one more time for a toatal of 4 minutes. I take a minute rest then repeat. 9 MINUTES OF HELL!!!
yeah I think you're over thinking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by edgarr
I'd do something like this, and you can switch it around however you like.
Keto diet Monday though dinner time Saturday. Do your Low intensity workout on Saturday pre carb up.
carb inclusive meal with dinner (maybe some whole wheat pasta or sweet potato, make sure you're getting a good number of grams of carbs...but not candy), then more long acting carbs like maybe some brown rice or oats an hour or so before bed. Drink milk durring the carb up (cause it raises insulin levels pretty good) and eat fresh fruits.
Continue the carb up though Sunday, keeping it healthy but with a surplus of calories. Keep the fats in check a bit through the carb up. The goal is not to put back on all the fat you've lost, just provide an insulin rich good blood sugar enviroment.
I would take Sunday as your only off day for the week and just focus on the diet. You can eat some faster acting carbs, but the portions must be smaller and the meals more frequent. There is no point trying to go back into ketosis mid day Sunday, there are still carbs sitting in your stomach and intestines, and high glycogen levels. Finish out the day Sunday letting yourself eat carbs.
There are many ways to do a carb up though...I knew this guy trained by a former Miss Universe...He was on a keto diet all week then every Friday he ate a large pizza. I really don't think it was going that well though. I don't know it he was cheating the diet or what, but he stayed on this diet for 8 months trying to cut bodyfat, and if you ask me didn't get any leaner.
Then when you go back to the keto diet on Monday, first meal or so, I'd skip the bacon, next to no carbs. You won't be in ketosis yet. You could do high intensity cardio this day to quicken the speed of getting to ketosis. AM or PM whatever works for your schedule. With a high intensity cardio session included I think you can throw yourself back into ketosis by the end of the first day back. The longer you're on this type of diet the quicker your body adapts back to it following a carb up.
Not sure exactly what you're doing in your workouts or in addition to cardio but that should at least give you a starting point to time things out. You can change whatever you don't like, just to give you a starting point.
IMO the science of keto doesn't really lend itself to marathon training or anything much more intense than weight training. But for some people it's really effective. Doesn't work well for people who sit on their ass all day because the ketones just sit in the blood stream either. Really the best would be a high level of activity all day, like having a job where you do a lot of walking.
The nice thing I found with keto is you're never hungry.
Thanks again. I was thinking of going through Sat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos
I do sit at my job for 7 or so hours but my routine is that I do cardio in the am and then workout with weights around 8 hours after followed by more cardio. My weight training is very intense, I go as heavy a possible for 6-8 reps focusing mainly on big routines like squats, deads, bench, etc. Since I sit at work I try to keep my heart rate and body temp up with a stimulant such as an ECA stack