RTRs Back To The Basics Thread

[RoadToRecovery]

....

[wheelkicktotheface2]

a great post.. most people have never seen this or anything similiar to it. it will be helpful.

[stack_it]

Great post. Should help a lot of people.

[RoadToRecovery]

Thanks, I have alot more information to post - but I cut it short for now to keep people checking back in.

[RoadToRecovery]

Without making this an FAQ, is there something any one would like me to touch base on as far as the basics go?

[Sir Lifts-a-lot]

Tried and true. These simple principles will yield phenomenal results time in and time out.

[wheelkicktotheface2]

RTR i think it would be helpful to touch on proper form somehow . i see too many guys at the gym cranking out 315lbs bench press sets with their back arched 10" off the bench. or curling a heavy load and swinging their body 1/2 way across the gym. proper form, contraction and really focusing on that muscle ur lifting is far greater than any weight / rep. keep up the good infos.

[RoadToRecovery]

RTR i think it would be helpful to touch on proper form somehow . i see too many guys at the gym cranking out 315lbs bench press sets with their back arched 10" off the bench. or curling a heavy load and swinging their body 1/2 way across the gym. proper form, contraction and really focusing on that muscle ur lifting is far greater than any weight / rep. keep up the good infos.

lol arching your back is considered proper form. The 3 contact points are feet, glutes, and scapula.

[wheelkicktotheface2]

im more referring to the people who look like they are having a mild seizure. not just have their back slightly or mildly elevated. swinging or erratic rocking of your body while curling is horrible as well. some of the points im referring to. most ppl who arch their back also raise one shoulder slightly off the bench as well in my expierence so (were not talking about people that know what their doing or this post wouldnt exist =) ) ... thats more what im referring to. now touch on it! im more saying this for ppl who are slightly new to the whole hard core lifting thing. even for casual lifters. form is always important far more than weight/reps/sets. drop any or all to achieve the best form you can manage. anyways .... GO.. no more stall tactics you write!

[RoadToRecovery]

Updated

[RoadToRecovery]

im more referring to the people who look like they are having a mild seizure. not just have their back slightly or mildly elevated. swinging or erratic rocking of your body while curling is horrible as well. some of the points im referring to. most ppl who arch their back also raise one shoulder slightly off the bench as well in my expierence so (were not talking about people that know what their doing or this post wouldnt exist =) ) ... thats more what im referring to. now touch on it! im more saying this for ppl who are slightly new to the whole hard core lifting thing. even for casual lifters. form is always important far more than weight/reps/sets. drop any or all to achieve the best form you can manage. anyways .... GO.. no more stall tactics you write!

Form isnt something I can cover in a summary. There are hundreds of different exercises and that are going beyond the topic of the basics.

[RoadToRecovery]

Updated

1RM formula added

[RoadToRecovery]

Bump - Lot of new threads could be answered with this.

[t-gunz]

bump

[YoungGunsNY]

Just to expand the thread - best workouts per body part .. max sets per workout .. based on the hypertrophy..absolute strength.. and endurance profiles

[RoadToRecovery]

Just to expand the thread - best workouts per body part ..

This is completely person specific.

max sets per workout .. based on the hypertrophy..absolute strength.. and endurance profiles

This is covered.

Hypertrophy
Small muscle groups - 1-3 sets
Large Muscle Groups 4-8 sets
1-4 Exercises per muscle group

Absolute Strength

Small muscle groups - 2-4 sets
Large Muscle Groups 5-10 sets
1-2 Exercises per muscle group


Anatomical Adaptation/ Active Rest / Endurace

1-3 sets of a full body exercise
1 exercise per muscle group

[graeme87]

So for Hypertrophy
small muscle groups 1-3 sets of 1-4 exercises = minimum of 1 set and a maximum of 12
large muscle groups 4-8 sets of 1-4 exercises = minimum of 4 sets and a maximum of 32

That's a huge variance! I'm not quite sure that's what you meant to say but the way it's written implies one could use 1 set of 1 exercise = 1 set over all for a small muscle group or up to 3 sets of 4 exercises = 12sets

I'd have said 5-8 sets for small muscles and 8-12 sets for large muscles. In terms of how many exercises you use to accomplish that amount of sets I would say is up to you. I can get a great workout just using barbells curls for my biceps so in that case 1 exercises is fine where as for back I'd recommend at least on vertical pulling movement and one horizontal movement minimum. This is with the idea of going to failure on each set.

[RoadToRecovery]

So for Hypertrophy
small muscle groups 1-3 sets of 1-4 exercises = minimum of 1 set and a maximum of 12
large muscle groups 4-8 sets of 1-4 exercises = minimum of 4 sets and a maximum of 32

That's a huge variance! I'm not quite sure that's what you meant to say but the way it's written implies one could use 1 set of 1 exercise = 1 set over all for a small muscle group or up to 3 sets of 4 exercises = 12sets

I'd have said 5-8 sets for small muscles and 8-12 sets for large muscles. In terms of how many exercises you use to accomplish that amount of sets I would say is up to you. I can get a great workout just using barbells curls for my biceps so in that case 1 exercises is fine where as for back I'd recommend at least on vertical pulling movement and one horizontal movement minimum. This is with the idea of going to failure on each set.

Bold ^^^

The idea here to pick your set number is simply this, if you are going to choose lower reps, you will do more sets, if you are going to do more sets, you will do less exercises.

Its more like 4-12 sets for small muscle groups and 16-32 sets for large muscle groups

In other words -

I have a hypertrophy mesocycle coming up so I plan to use 80% of my 1RM.

So there for, Im going to stay closer to the lower end of the repitition spectrum.

Since I will stay around 6-8 reps I will now choose to perform more sets.

Since I am doing more sets I will do less number of exercises.

I figured this would have been a bit obvious but perhaps not.

But this is basic. Its up to you to see what works best.

[RoadToRecovery]

Updated

[graeme87]

Bold ^^^

The idea here to pick your set number is simply this, if you are going to choose lower reps, you will do more sets, if you are going to do more sets, you will do less exercises.

Its more like 4-12 sets for small muscle groups and 16-32 sets for large muscle groups

In other words -

I have a hypertrophy mesocycle coming up so I plan to use 80% of my 1RM.

So there for, Im going to stay closer to the lower end of the repitition spectrum.

Since I will stay around 6-8 reps I will now choose to perform more sets.

Since I am doing more sets I will do less number of exercises.

I figured this would have been a bit obvious but perhaps not.

But this is basic. Its up to you to see what works best.

Fancy sharing your routine with us? I'm not criticising I'm just curious to see what your workouts look like because for me to 32 set for a large muscle would take about 90 mins (30-60 seconds to perform the set with approximately 2 mins rest between sets, some time more) not to mention that a large muscle is usually followed by a small muscle, back and biceps for example so that would be an other 20-40 mins on top of the 90.

[RoadToRecovery]

Fancy sharing your routine with us? I'm not criticising I'm just curious to see what your workouts look like because for me to 32 set for a large muscle would take about 90 mins (30-60 seconds to perform the set with approximately 2 mins rest between sets, some time more) not to mention that a large muscle is usually followed by a small muscle, back and biceps for example so that would be an other 20-40 mins on top of the 90.

Are you looking to start a fight or is it just your nature to completely over analyze very basic/generalized information. These are guidelines, not rules...
Your digging a bit to deep over something as shallow as the initial post.

[AcePowerZ]

Great Read! This gave me alot of new insight on alot of things.

[YoungGunsNY]

How to calculate your Max/Target Heart Rate

This method that Im about to show you is known as the Karvonen Method.

Target Heart Rate = ((max HR − resting HR) × %Intensity) + resting HR example

How would I go about testing/finding my MAX HR and RESTING HR?

[graeme87]

Are you looking to start a fight or is it just your nature to completely over analyze very basic/generalized information. These are guidelines, not rules...
Your digging a bit to deep over something as shallow as the initial post.

As I said I'm not being critical just curious to see how you implement such volume into your routine.

I wouldn't call it over analysing, I'm simply asking to see a practical implementation of your theory. Your defensive nature and reluctance to give an example as simple as your own routine is not inspiring confidence.

[RoadToRecovery]

As I said I'm not being critical just curious to see how you implement such volume into your routine.

I wouldn't call it over analysing, I'm simply asking to see a practical implementation of your theory. Your defensive nature and reluctance to give an example as simple as your own routine is not inspiring confidence.

I didnt know you were sensitive as well as an over analyzer. Questioning your motives is simply a way to understand what you are trying to accomplish by asking the questions that you do.

Im not being defensive, I explained the theory behind the ranges.

And if I seem to be defensive, then you seem to be implying that I dont practice what I preach especially with your comment that due to me being "reluctant" to give my workout is "not inspiring confidence". Why not just ask me to explain a little further if you are incapable of developing a routine on your own with the provided info.

But thats just me, If I am wrong than shame on me. But like you said I sound like Im being defensive, and you sound like you have a hidden agenda with your questions.

[RoadToRecovery]

How would I go about testing/finding my MAX HR and RESTING HR?

Max HR = 220-Age
Resting HR = Immediate upon waking up take your pulse.

[graeme87]

OK, you are saying for hypertrophy training do 16-32 sets per large muscle group. That’s using 60-80% of your 1RM for 6-12 reps each set with 60-120 seconds rest between sets.
That is way too many sets! Even on a heavy cycle I wouldn’t use that many sets.
Please explain your theory a little further and as previously asked for I’d like to you your routine that incorporates this sort of volume.

[RoadToRecovery]

OK, you are saying for hypertrophy training do 16-32 sets per large muscle group. That’s using 60-80% of your 1RM for 6-12 reps each set with 60-120 seconds rest between sets.

Something like that.

That is way too many sets! Even on a heavy cycle I wouldn’t use that many sets.

Ok then do less and explain why your way is better. This is coming from someone who is NOT being critical?

Please explain your theory a little further and as previously asked for I’d like to you your routine that incorporates this sort of volume.

This isnt my theory. Im not re-inventing the wheel here. Just providing some foundation for many new lifters who need some structure. If you disagree, tell me why and show me a better way.

Heres my routine im about to do in about 2 hours.

Chest day

2x10 slow altering angled Pushups - warmup
Light Stretch
All at 75%1RM

Flat Bench - 4 sets x 6-8 reps
Roc It Pec Flys - 4 sets x 6-8 reps
Incline Dumbell Press - 4 sets x 6-8 reps
Roc It Decline Press - 4 sets x 8-reps

this here is 16 sets.

Leg day I do 20-25 sets if you include calves.

Once again - this is all subjective and you take from this whatever you want which is why there is such a large window.

[YoungGunsNY]

[QUOTE=RoadToRecovery;5154351]

Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass) - 60- 80% of 1RM
Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass) - 6- 12 REPS
Hypertrophy - 60-120s of rest in between sets

Small muscle groups - 1-3 sets
Large Muscle Groups 4-8 sets
1-4 Exercises per muscle group

I'm currently following the Pendulum Bodybuilding Workout - on my 8th week now, and I am not sure if I'm going to continue for another 5 weeks when I reach the 10th week. If I do not continue, then my workouts will be hypertrophy-based workouts (they always have been).

As I've done some recent readings, I see many people advocating the # of total reps that should be performed per body part.

So, for large muscles performing 4 exercises at 4 sets at avg. 9 reps (12,10,8,6) = 144 total reps.
In a post or workout (forget where), I remember seeing 100 reps per muscle is sufficient (don't know if small are included).
Is there a limit to how many total reps/how many few reps should be done per muscle group or large/small muscle groups?
Thanks.

[graeme87]

I really need you full routine to make my point, not just one workout.

I also note that you are staying at the very bottom range of the amount of sets you recommended which is imo borderline OK.

16 sets for chest is still more than I would do but it's not terrible, some people may get away with it but what is terrible is recommending 16 sets as a minimum.

[RoadToRecovery]

I really need you full routine to make my point, not just one workout.

Well what is your point.

I also note that you are staying at the very bottom range of the amount of sets you recommended which is imo borderline OK.

16 sets for chest is still more than I would do but it's not terrible, some people may get away with it but what is terrible is recommending 16 sets as a minimum.

Never said 16 was the minimum. Once again, Im trying to be general, your trying to be specific. Create a thread about specificity and leave the generalizations here.

All you have been doing is critiquing my info with out supplying any background about why you think its wrong.

This was not a thread geared towards a debate. Its general and non-specific. I know of many individuals that keep a positive nitrogen balance and keep their workouts around 20-25 sets.

[graeme87]

Ultimately over training is my concern

[RoadToRecovery]

get your nitrogen balance measured by a doctor. Used to be able to do so with Nitrostix but they were discontinued.

[YoungGunsNY]

graeme87 - I would just give up man..
By the way, maybe you overlooked it RTR or didn't get to it yet, but can you answer the post regarding limits of rep per body parts? Thanks.\

I did cardio for the first time today in a LONG time - found out my heart rate range to be 80-100 (60-70% intensity), get to the gym to discover those heart monitors on the treadmills are SO OFF! I'm looking to buy a heart rate monitor on my own - any ideas for a decently priced one like a watch or so to wear while doing cardio?

[graeme87]

MY aim here isn't to get RTR to admit he is wrong, clearly he is too immature for that.

I just don't want people to follow his bullsht advice.
Don't get me wrong RTR I do like your thread and it has a lot of good info but the number of sets you are recommending is way off. As said before 16 sets (minimum you are recommending) is around the maximum I'd expect and experienced lifted on a cycle to be doing.

[RoadToRecovery]

MY aim here isn't to get RTR to admit he is wrong, clearly he is too immature for that.

I just don't want people to follow his bullsht advice.
Don't get me wrong RTR I do like your thread and it has a lot of good info but the number of sets you are recommending is way off. As said before 16 sets (minimum you are recommending) is around the maximum I'd expect and experienced lifted on a cycle to be doing.

My bullshit advice? Wrong? Dude... You are officially an idiot and wrote off.
What about the range is incorrect? Is it because muscle and fitness didnt have the same ranges? Prove me wrong. Dont just say that I am wrong and than say "just because". All you are doing is sounding like a little know it all that actually knows nothing. How the hell can I be wrong about a generalization. Its impossible.

[RoadToRecovery]

I just don't want people to follow his bullsht advice.

No, you jsut want people to follow your bullshit advice.
This thread is GENERAL. I feel like a broken record here. Unless I did a full assessment on an individual and came up with specifics - the above information still stands.

[graeme87]

16-32 sets is GENERAL advice?

You are saying GENERALLY 16-32 sets, so a newbie should start off with 16 sets and as he gets more experience work his way up to 20, 25 and eventually up to 32 sets?

Only very experience lifters/pro bodybuilders on a cycle would consider scraping into the bottom of that range.

Some pro's will work up to 20 sets but if your advice is general then I doubt it's directed at pros and even then their maximum number of sets doesn't even fall in the middle of your range.

Also in regards to you generalization you gave a very specific goal "Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass)" and a very specific minimum 16 sets. Meaning 16 sets is the least amount of sets required to obtain optimum results. Simply incorrect.

And with regards to doing 32 sets for Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass) again this is simply incorrect as most people even if they were on a cycle would be over training and thus not attain optimum results.

You'll find a few who are creeping into the bottom of your range I'm sure but I assure you, the minimum number of sets you are recommending is closer to most if not everyone's maximum number of sets.

Do a pole on here and see how many guys are using 24-32 sets.

I've wasted enough time on this and you have become childish and defensive and resorted to name calling. Clearly you're not capable of an adult debate so I recommend you read up on overtraining, if you still disagree with me then carry on with your routine which from the example you gave shows you are also only barley scraping into the range you recommend i.e. 16 sets for chest.

An interesting thing to do would be to post your personal routine in a separate thread showing you using the 16-32 sets and simple ask if it looks like you are over training. I think you'll be shocked by the replies you receive and hopefully you won't take the criticism too personally.

[RoadToRecovery]

Leave it to the cherry pickers - I said 1-32 but more like 16-32... didnt say less than 16 was invalid. Stop twisting things.

Only very experience lifters/pro bodybuilders on a cycle would consider scraping into the bottom of that range.

Prove it.

[RoadToRecovery]

[QUOTE=YoungGunsNY;5163260]

Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass) - 60- 80% of 1RM
Hypertrophy (Muscle Mass) - 6- 12 REPS
Hypertrophy - 60-120s of rest in between sets

Small muscle groups - 1-3 sets
Large Muscle Groups 4-8 sets
1-4 Exercises per muscle group

I'm currently following the Pendulum Bodybuilding Workout - on my 8th week now, and I am not sure if I'm going to continue for another 5 weeks when I reach the 10th week. If I do not continue, then my workouts will be hypertrophy-based workouts (they always have been).

As I've done some recent readings, I see many people advocating the # of total reps that should be performed per body part.

So, for large muscles performing 4 exercises at 4 sets at avg. 9 reps (12,10,8,6) = 144 total reps.
In a post or workout (forget where), I remember seeing 100 reps per muscle is sufficient (don't know if small are included).
Is there a limit to how many total reps/how many few reps should be done per muscle group or large/small muscle groups?
Thanks.

Yes of course... reps do matter also, but its not as easy to say "16 sets is too many because thats potentially 192 reps".

The point is, if you can get away with 25+ sets... and keep a positive nitrogen balance... go for it... say, for leg day... you break it down to 3-4 sets per exercise averaging 9 reps an exercise you could easily do over 200 reps.

You have your quads which you can do compound and isolation movements
This could be 12-16 sets alone
Inner thighs
4 sets
Outer thighs
4 sets
Calves
4 sets

This could be a complete workout for you. Im not saying this is what you should do.

You will notice though, that there are exercise routines claimed to be used by the pros with exceptionally high volume in a split.

http://strongestman.org/?p=12

This is proposed as Ronnie Colemans workout, I dont know if it actually is.

Disclaimer: To avoid very easily confused people (graeme) from making the mistake that I am recommending a split like this, I am clarifying right NOW; I am not recommending this split/routine. I am simply making a point.

The thread was made as a simple guidline, many workout programs fall with in the guideline. Its not to say that you should start at 1 set and work your way to 32.

You are saying GENERALLY 16-32 sets, so a newbie should start off with 16 sets and as he gets more experience work his way up to 20, 25 and eventually up to 32 sets?

Where did I say that someone new should start at 16 sets? Your being a bit unfair, cherry picking info, and twisting the info/message. Unless you have a relevant and educated rebuttal regarding your initial argument, your next post will be ignored.