Training program - 1st cycle

[Eupharies]

Im 24, 200lbs and been training around 2 years properly.

Doing a 12 weeks test cycle, and wanted to know the best type of workout, Im only on my second week of the cycle so if i need to make changes now is the time, heres what im doing at the moment.

Day one - Upper ( back emphasis)

Weighted pullups 5 x failure
BB row 4 x 12 10 8 6
Flat bench 4 x 10 8 8 6
lat raise 3 x 12 10 10
Skull crushes 3 x 10
Incline curl 3 x 10
shrugs 3 x 15

Abs 3 x 20

Day 2 - Legs

Squats 6 x 12 10 8 6 6 20
Leg exenstion 3 x 12
Leg curl 3 x 12
Calves 3 x 15
Possible set of bis / tris dependant on tiredness

Day 3 Upper ( Chest emphasis)

Flat Bench 5 x 12 10 8 8 6
Cable flyes 4 x 10
Chins 3 x failure weighted
DB press 3 x 12 10 8
BB curl 3 x 10
pushdowns 3 x 10
Shrugs 3 x 8 (heavy)

Abs 3 x 20


Day 4 legs

Leg press 5 x 12 10 8 8 20
RDL 4 x 15 10 8
Leg extension 3 x 6 (heavy)
Calvs 3 x 15
Possible set of bis / tris dependant on tiredness


So yeh, i think volume is pretty good as obviously i am on gear.

LEt me know if you think it needs changes, or even a complete change like a 5 day split etc, im open to all suggestions!!

Thanks

[FireGuy]

If you trained your legs with proper intensity on day 2, there is no way you could/should be able to train them again on day 4.

[Eupharies]

so drop one of the leg sessions?

[Eupharies]

also im 1 on 1 off... so i do have a 3 day rest in between

[tbody66]

day one
day off
day two
day off
day three
day off
day four
day off
day one
day off
repeat???

I don't like the selections personally. Also, 24 years old, 200lbs doesn't paint an accurate picture of what you should be focusing on. Ht and bodyfat percentages, and post some pics. Also, what are you trying to accomplish with your cycle and what exactly are you cycling?

[Eupharies]

yep thats how i am doing it, ok cool, what would you suggest taking test, im 6"2, bodyfat around 15%, goal is to put on as much lean size as possible, aiming for a wide back, bit of arm growth wouldnt hurt, just overall mass

[Eupharies]

i figured hitting msucles twice a week would be beneficial, what are your suggestions?? They would be much appreciated

[FireGuy]

Glad to hear you have days off in between. Even so I dont think that's adequate enough rest. Once a week works best for me. You may be able to get away with once every 5th day but any more than that is asking for overtraining to set in IMHO.

[tbody66]

I would think that at 24 years old and on cycle the muscles would recover faster than every five days, especially the smaller muscle groups. I have always been of the understanding that smaller muscle groups recover in 48 hours and larger in up to 96. I honestly have never understood how the one bodypart once a week was introduced, let alone became the standard. If your muscle is recovered and you don't train it, aren't you under-training and prolonging your time frame to build muscle?

I've actually been thinking alot about this lately. Most of the reference material seems to be based upon top level pro bodybuilders, who are taking massive amounts of AAS, which would promote growth in sedentary people, how does this translate to the average, non-competitive, weight lifter/body builder?

[Eupharies]

i think ill play it by how im feeling in terms of the leg frequency.

In terms of bodypart frequency, would you say my split is more effective than a 5 day split, i personally favou the exercises in my program, hence why i chose them, do you not favour them tbody66, or could you suggest better ones, or does it overall look ok?

[tbody66]

I do legs twice a week, because that's what I'm focusing on right now. I have a hard time fixing a five day split, but maybe if you hit chest shoulders tris mon/thur, back and bis tue/fri and legs alone wed, that would work well. Heavy lifts mon/tue, light lifts thu/fri...hmmm, let me put some thought into this.

[FireGuy]

I agree that everyone recovers at a different rate. Over the years I have lifted with pretty much every split there is. Hitting each muscle once per week is my "sweet spot" for growth. Every competitive bodybuilder I have ever trained and every person I have ever had train me subscribed to the once a week, per muscle schedule. (calves and abs excluded). This doesnt by any means make it the right answer but it does lend some credibility. As far as your leg focus right now T66. This is one of the biggest mistakes/fallacies I think there is in bodybuilding. If you have a lagging bodypart it doesnt need to be worked more often, it needs to be worked with more intensity.
Also, I do believe the heavy/light system you describe can be very effective but again, heavy one week, light the next with this caveat. The light day is as intense or more intense than the heavy day. I see people do this all the time, doing 15 reps and stopping when they had 5 more in the bank "cause it's their light day". Light means, training with the same intensity to failure or near failure in a higher rep range.
I guess if you are avocating the light day be a "lighter intensity" day as well I can see where training a muscle twice per week may work for you. For me, if you are going to train it, traumatize it regardless of the rep range.

[Eupharies]

ok cool, loving the info.

If i was to do a 5 day split, it would be something like this... watcha think..

Monday - Back

Weighted pullups 5 x failiure
BB row 4 x 12 10 8 6
Cable row 2 x15
Deadlift 3 x 6
Shrugs 3 x 15
2 sets of biceps at the end
Abs 3 x 15

Tuesday - Chest

Flat bench, 2 x warmup sets, 4 x 10 8 6 6
Incline DB press 3 x 10 8 8
Chest dips 3 x failiure
Cable flyes 3 x 15 12 10
2 sets of triceps at the end

Weds - legs

Squats 2 x warmup, 4 x 10 8 8 6
Leg press, 3 x 15 12 10
RDL 3 x 5
leg extension 3 x 12
Leg curl 3 x 12
Shrugs 3 x 15
abs 3 x 15

Thursday - Arms

BB curl 3 x 10
Incline curl 3 x 10 8 6
Cable curl 2 x 15
Chins 2 x failiure

Skullcrushers 4 x failure (last set finish with cg bench to failiure)
CGBP 2 x 10
Pushdowns 4 x 12 10 10 8
Dips 2 x failure

Friday Shoulders

DB press 4 x 12 10 8 6
Lat raise 4 x 15 12 10 10
Rear delt cable 3 x 15
Upright row 2 x 10
Shrugs 3 x 8 (heavy)
Abs 3 x 15


How does that look in comparison to the 1st workout??

Much appreciated

[FireGuy]

^^That is my extremely similiar to my schedule except I take Wed. off and train Saturdays.

[tbody66]

I agree that everyone recovers at a different rate. Over the years I have lifted with pretty much every split there is. Hitting each muscle once per week is my "sweet spot" for growth. Every competitive bodybuilder I have ever trained and every person I have ever had train me subscribed to the once a week, per muscle schedule. (calves and abs excluded). This doesnt by any means make it the right answer but it does lend some credibility. As far as your leg focus right now T66. This is one of the biggest mistakes/fallacies I think there is in bodybuilding. If you have a lagging bodypart it doesnt need to be worked more often, it needs to be worked with more intensity.
Also, I do believe the heavy/light system you describe can be very effective but again, heavy one week, light the next with this caveat. The light day is as intense or more intense than the heavy day. I see people do this all the time, doing 15 reps and stopping when they had 5 more in the bank "cause it's their light day". Light means, training with the same intensity to failure or near failure in a higher rep range.
I guess if you are avocating the light day be a "lighter intensity" day as well I can see where training a muscle twice per week may work for you. For me, if you are going to train it, traumatize it regardless of the rep range.

I agree with this, my heavy and light days are not referring to intensity or lack of going to failure. I have always preached that if you have another rep in you and don't perform it it's like running a hundred yard dash being in the lead by ten yards and stopping at 99 yards and quitting. My focus on the laggin bodypart is from missing too many workouts for legs so switching the focus to break through whatever I had mentally put in place to not train legs as intensely. The heavier weights used in the early of the week lifts have an extra full day of rest from the weekend before they are hit, and heavier weights affect more than just the muscle that is being worked, joints, tendons, tie-ins etc... so you hit the same muscle group later with lighter weights but equal intensity.

When I do 10x10's with 225lbs for squats it causes me diffrerent pain/pleasure than when I do 180 reps of weightless lunges on my light leg day, not less pain/pleasure from the training, just different type and location. I know that lot's of people do the one bodypart, once a week program, excluding calves/abs, I just don't know how it became the adopted norm, especially with small muscle groups, like arms, they have got to recover so much faster than 168 hrs, unless you are somehow counting them as being hit with other exercises (push involving the triceps and pull the biceps)

ok cool, loving the info.

If i was to do a 5 day split, it would be something like this... watcha think..

Monday - Back

Weighted pullups 5 x failiure
BB row 4 x 12 10 8 6
Cable row 2 x15
Deadlift 3 x 6
Shrugs 3 x 15
2 sets of biceps at the end
Abs 3 x 15

Tuesday - Chest

Flat bench, 2 x warmup sets, 4 x 10 8 6 6
Incline DB press 3 x 10 8 8
Chest dips 3 x failiure
Cable flyes 3 x 15 12 10
2 sets of triceps at the end

Weds - legs

Squats 2 x warmup, 4 x 10 8 8 6
Leg press, 3 x 15 12 10
RDL 3 x 5
leg extension 3 x 12
Leg curl 3 x 12
Shrugs 3 x 15
abs 3 x 15

Thursday - Arms

BB curl 3 x 10
Incline curl 3 x 10 8 6
Cable curl 2 x 15
Chins 2 x failiure

Skullcrushers 4 x failure (last set finish with cg bench to failiure)
CGBP 2 x 10
Pushdowns 4 x 12 10 10 8
Dips 2 x failure

Friday Shoulders

DB press 4 x 12 10 8 6
Lat raise 4 x 15 12 10 10
Rear delt cable 3 x 15
Upright row 2 x 10
Shrugs 3 x 8 (heavy)
Abs 3 x 15


How does that look in comparison to the 1st workout??

Much appreciated

I personally like this workout, not just better than the first, but a good looking routine period!

[Eupharies]

brilliant thanks alot guys.

And just to double check, doing a 5 day split whilsyt on steroids is considered more beneficial than an upper lower split??

Thanks