Need advice on my training split! 18 - 6"3 - 172ibs.

[Gucks]

Alright, quick bio of me. i started lifting about the start of June 2010 after a 2 months stint in hospital, i was down to 135ibs @ 6"3" (borderline anorexic). Saw a dietition in hospital, got a personal trainer for first month out 2 get me started and never looked back. Now I'm a healthy 172ibs 10-12% bf, but i want alot more. My first 4 weeks i gained 17ibs of good weight, then it was concistently about 2ibs a week untill October. Ive just hit a wall, been hovering at about 170 for 3 months and i cant get passed it. ive upped my calories, changed my workouts around and tryed every supp under the sun 2 get me moving again. No success so far.

heres my split: (all weights in kg)

Monday - 6:30 am - legs
leg extension - 12 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45kg drop set 4 each)
plate loaded kneeling leg curl - 12 x 4 (50,50,50,60/50/40 drop set 4 each)
leg press - 8 x 5 (120,120,120,150,90)
squat machine squats - 8 x 3 (80,80,60)
standing calf raises - 15 x 4 (70,70,70,80/70/60 5 each)

Tueday - 6:30 am - chest
flat bench - 8 x 5 (60,60,60,70,50)
pec dec - 10 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45 4 each)
machine press - 6 x 3 (70,70,60)
cable crossover - 12 x 5 (12.5,12.5,10,7.5 from beneath, 6.25 from beneath)

Wednesday - off

Thurdsday - 6:30am - shoulders
seated lat raises - 10 x 4 (12.5,12.5,12.5,15/12.5/10 3 each)
shoulder press - 8 x 3 (25,25,22.5)
reverse cable flys - 12 x 4 (7.5,7.5,7.5,6.25)
barbell shrugs - 10 x 3 (60,60,60)
front raises - 8 x 4 (15,15,15,15/12.5/10)

Friday - 6:30am - back
lat pulldown - 10 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45 4 each)
low row - 8 x 4 (45,45,45,45/30 4 each)
deadlifts - 8 x 3 (90,90,60)
wide grip pullups - 12 x 2
t-bar rows - 10 x 3 (50,50,50/30 5 each)

Saturday - 9:30am - arms
dumbell curls - 8 x 3 (20,20,20)
preacher curls - 8 x 3 (35,35,30)
skull crushers - 10 x 4 (35,35,30,30)
rope pushdowns - 10 x 4 (30,30,30,40/30/20 4 each)

Sunday - off

Please let me know what u think and be specific. thanks!

[stack_it]

heres my split: (all weights in kg)

Monday - 6:30 am - legs
leg extension - 12 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45kg drop set 4 each). Drop the reps to 8-10 and up the weight. No drop set.
plate loaded kneeling leg curl - 12 x 4 (50,50,50,60/50/40 drop set 4 each) Drop the reps to 8-10 and up the weight. No drop set.
leg press - 8 x 5 (120,120,120,150,90) good
squat machine squats - 8 x 3 (80,80,60)good
standing calf raises - 15 x 4 (70,70,70,80/70/60 5 each)

Tueday - 6:30 am - chest
flat bench - 8 x 5 (60,60,60,70,50)4 working sets 8-10 reps
pec dec - 10 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45 4 each) get rid of drop set
machine press - 6 x 3 (70,70,60) 3 sets 8-10
cable crossover - 12 x 5 (12.5,12.5,10,7.5 from beneath, 6.25 from beneath) 2 sets of 12 upper and two sets of 12 lower

Wednesday - off

Thurdsday - 6:30am - shoulders
seated lat raises - 10 x 4 (12.5,12.5,12.5,15/12.5/10 3 each) get rid of drop set
shoulder press - 8 x 3 (25,25,22.5) you should try to go up in weight on each set rather than drop.
reverse cable flys - 12 x 4 (7.5,7.5,7.5,6.25)you should try to go up in weight on each set rather than drop.
barbell shrugs - 10 x 3 (60,60,60)
front raises - 8 x 4 (15,15,15,15/12.5/10)

Friday - 6:30am - back
deadlifts - 8 x 3 (90,90,60)re-ordered
wide grip pullups - 12 x 2re-ordered
lat pulldown - 10 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45 4 each)
low row - 8 x 4 (45,45,45,45/30 4 each)
t-bar rows - 10 x 3 (50,50,50/30 5 each)

Saturday - 9:30am - arms
dumbell curls - 8 x 3 (20,20,20)
preacher curls - 8 x 3 (35,35,30)
Hammer curls 3 sets 8-10 superset with forearm excercise 3 sets 8-10
skull crushers - 10 x 4 (35,35,30,30)
rope pushdowns - 10 x 4 (30,30,30,40/30/20 4 each)

Sunday - off

my thoughts in bold.

I also think you need to rearrange your routine a little. You are hitting biceps the day after your back night which also hits your bi's as a secondary and doesn't allow them proper time to recover.

This is my recommended order
Monday - legs
Tuesday - chest
Wednesday off
Thursday - back
Friday - shoulders
Saturday - arms

[stack_it]

As far as you gaining weight, post up your diet in the diet section. You'd be surprised how far off your diet can be. I though mine was good and couldn't figure out why I wasn't gaining and they explained why what my problems were. Helped me gain tremendously.

[Gucks]

As far as you gaining weight, post up your diet in the diet section. You'd be surprised how far off your diet can be. I though mine was good and couldn't figure out why I wasn't gaining and they explained why what my problems were. Helped me gain tremendously.

thank u very much dude, and ye i had diet in diet forum, wanted to get views on workout aswell. i like ur changes, ill see how they go next week! u really dont like drop sets then? :P cheers!

[Darksyde]

at your age and height and weight i would scrap all that bodypart split crap and go push pull legs.

[BigBuck6]

I like your split with the changes that were made by stack. As others have said diet is key here and will continue to be throughout your bodybuilding life. I know some may say I am crazy but I suggest you just overload on macro-nutrients here and there to see if anything happens. As far as your training make sure you keep the intensity high at all times and make the most out of your workouts, and soreness isn't always an indicator of a good workout by the way.

[stack_it]

thank u very much dude, and ye i had diet in diet forum, wanted to get views on workout aswell. i like ur changes, ill see how they go next week! u really dont like drop sets then? :P cheers!

I believe you were overtraining with the drop sets. IMO drop sets should be used only on one or two sets as a burnout.

[KeyMastur]

if you're worried about NOT gaining weight remember this one simple fact - you're 18....i was about 175 i think my junior year. started adding 10 lbs a year for a few years naturally just by getting older

[Gucks]

if you're worried about NOT gaining weight remember this one simple fact - you're 18....i was about 175 i think my junior year. started adding 10 lbs a year for a few years naturally just by getting older

thanks very much dude, ive had ppl tell me i have loads of time 2 grow. just impatient i think :P can i ask what u think about darksyde's split, going push, pull, legs? i used 2 do a split like that wen i started but changed it after about 3 months training. to soon 2 have a proper split?

[Gucks]

I believe you were overtraining with the drop sets. IMO drop sets should be used only on one or two sets as a burnout.

thanks very much, can i ask what u think bout going push, pull, legs again? what i did for first 3 months training (had a trainer who told me to). should i go back to that untill i have more experience for a full split?

[stack_it]

thanks very much, can i ask what u think bout going push, pull, legs again? what i did for first 3 months training (had a trainer who told me to). should i go back to that untill i have more experience for a full split?

As long as you do your excercises with proper form then you'll be good. Nothing wrong with push pull but it gets boring.

[Darksyde]

i still use push pull legs most of the time after over 12 years of dedicated training and dieting.
my reasoning is basically this:
you only grow when you are resting. so why not hit your major systems every 5 or 6 days and then rest it, instead of a bodypart once every 7 days with all sorts of repeat and consecutive days of using the same muscles. in the long run you will gain more weight and strength overall, imo.
i don't do the same workout each time. when you change up exercises stimulus on your body is always shifting around a bit.
I can only share what worked for me.

[Gucks]

i still use push pull legs most of the time after over 12 years of dedicated training and dieting.
my reasoning is basically this:
you only grow when you are resting. so why not hit your major systems every 5 or 6 days and then rest it, instead of a bodypart once every 7 days with all sorts of repeat and consecutive days of using the same muscles. in the long run you will gain more weight and strength overall, imo.
i don't do the same workout each time. when you change up exercises stimulus on your body is always shifting around a bit.
I can only share what worked for me.

thanks very much, ill ask my trainer he prefers split but ill try anything atm. wuld be happy 2 be as big as u in ur dp!

[Gucks]

As long as you do your excercises with proper form then you'll be good. Nothing wrong with push pull but it gets boring.

gonna try ur changes first. thanks very much 4 advice just wondering if ull check out new thread in diet forum, i always vom my protein shake after workout! pain in the ass!

[KeyMastur]

just my .02 on your leg day....

Monday - 6:30 am - legs
leg extension - 12 x 4 (60,60,60,75/60/45kg drop set 4 each). Drop the reps to 8-10 and up the weight. No drop set.
plate loaded kneeling leg curl - 12 x 4 (50,50,50,60/50/40 drop set 4 each) Drop the reps to 8-10 and up the weight. No drop set.
leg press - 8 x 5 (120,120,120,150,90) good
squat machine squats - 8 x 3 (80,80,60)good
standing calf raises - 15 x 4 (70,70,70,80/70/60 5 each)

my legs sure as shit aren't gonna be loose that early in the morning. not sure what type of warm-up you're doing whether it be treadmill uphill walking, bike, or functional body weight exercises (standing lunges, bw squats, etc). but....if you don't wanna waste too much time doing that stuff before getting into heavy presses (which this is where i like to expend MOST of my energy since it uses the bigger muscles) try this:

- leg ext / leg curl - superset, medium weight, 2 sets of 15 reps, light stretching while resting
- leg press / calf extension (on the leg press machine) - either pyramid up (assuming since you're speaking in kg's, it's total kg's, and not just the amount on each side, correct? in my log book, i don't worry about what the rack weighs, i just count the weight that i'm adding on ONE side) or just do one medium weighted set, then start with the heavy stuff. not sure why you're dropping back down to 90 kg's after the 150. ditch that, add more weight and do less reps if needed. don't feel like a ***** if you're getting a spotter on the leg press. i've never seen anyone in my gym use a spotter on leg press except me. **** em.
- leg ext / leg curl*** - superset again (if you want), 3 sets, 5-6 reps, heavy weight
- seated / standing calf raise - time to give your quads a rest before you go back and hit them 1 final time. 4 - 5 sets, 8-12 reps
- squat machine / hack squats - 3 - 4 heavy sets, with a weight you can do for 5 reps, maybe just 3 reps on the last set.
- now stretch and go home.....

*** you can also substitute in romanian / stiff leg dead lifts which i do every other workout.

also if you want some variation and feel one leg is taking over the work in your extension / curl routines, switch it up and use 1 leg. (same with leg press)

if you'd rather start with the press movement (ie: leg press, squats, hack squat, whatever else your gym has) and then hit up the ext / curl in separate workouts then definitely do some warm-up sets before moving into the heavy stuff. stretch lightly as you go along, but nothing where you feel you're gonna tear the muscle.

this was just one of my routines i was using during an 8 week period before i rotated workouts. i loved it.

[Gucks]

just my .02 on your leg day....



my legs sure as shit aren't gonna be loose that early in the morning. not sure what type of warm-up you're doing whether it be treadmill uphill walking, bike, or functional body weight exercises (standing lunges, bw squats, etc). but....if you don't wanna waste too much time doing that stuff before getting into heavy presses (which this is where i like to expend MOST of my energy since it uses the bigger muscles) try this:

- leg ext / leg curl - superset, medium weight, 2 sets of 15 reps, light stretching while resting
- leg press / calf extension (on the leg press machine) - either pyramid up (assuming since you're speaking in kg's, it's total kg's, and not just the amount on each side, correct? in my log book, i don't worry about what the rack weighs, i just count the weight that i'm adding on ONE side) or just do one medium weighted set, then start with the heavy stuff. not sure why you're dropping back down to 90 kg's after the 150. ditch that, add more weight and do less reps if needed. don't feel like a ***** if you're getting a spotter on the leg press. i've never seen anyone in my gym use a spotter on leg press except me. **** em.
- leg ext / leg curl*** - superset again (if you want), 3 sets, 5-6 reps, heavy weight
- seated / standing calf raise - time to give your quads a rest before you go back and hit them 1 final time. 4 - 5 sets, 8-12 reps
- squat machine / hack squats - 3 - 4 heavy sets, with a weight you can do for 5 reps, maybe just 3 reps on the last set.
- now stretch and go home.....

*** you can also substitute in romanian / stiff leg dead lifts which i do every other workout.

also if you want some variation and feel one leg is taking over the work in your extension / curl routines, switch it up and use 1 leg. (same with leg press)

if you'd rather start with the press movement (ie: leg press, squats, hack squat, whatever else your gym has) and then hit up the ext / curl in separate workouts then definitely do some warm-up sets before moving into the heavy stuff. stretch lightly as you go along, but nothing where you feel you're gonna tear the muscle.

this was just one of my routines i was using during an 8 week period before i rotated workouts. i loved it.

im not big on warming up, i dont feel it helps at all. usually straight into heavy weights! soem people would dye of DOMS next day but it doesnt bother me.

i like ur workout alot, my only problem is the supersets. in my gym if u superset some ass will come and take ur machines...i just stick 2 1 at a time. and ye im talking total weight in kg for leg press, spotter for leg press? :P never even heard of some1 use 1, willing to try it though. military and bench is all i usually use spotter 4. thanks!

[KeyMastur]

my gym is that way too, but when you ask "nicely" people let you work in. and your gym is THAT packed at 6:30 in the morning ?? i wouldn't know what my gym looks like at 6:30 in the morning haha. 9:30 and 3:30 / 4 (after work) are my workout times.

[KeyMastur]

now for the shoulder workout:

Thurdsday - 6:30am - shoulders
seated lat raises - 10 x 4 (12.5,12.5,12.5,15/12.5/10 3 each) get rid of drop set
shoulder press - 8 x 3 (25,25,22.5) you should try to go up in weight on each set rather than drop.
reverse cable flys - 12 x 4 (7.5,7.5,7.5,6.25)you should try to go up in weight on each set rather than drop.
barbell shrugs - 10 x 3 (60,60,60)
front raises - 8 x 4 (15,15,15,15/12.5/10)

once again, put the exercise where you're wanting to expend the most energy, at the front. (with legs, the curl / ext combo was just a warm-up).

i'd definitely recommend a clean & press with a split jerk as your very first exercise. it's taxing yes, but it'll target your entire shoulder area. plus you'll look cool doing it [if you're like me and the only one who does it in my gym]. then you can re-order some of the exercises below:

if not, i'd go this route:

- arnold / military press - 4-5 working sets, 5-6 rep range - get a spotter
- upright row (using EZ-curl bar + weights) / DB rear delt (your choice of rear pec dec machine, seated / bent over DB) - 3 sets, no need for a warm-up, 6-8 range. you can even flip an do DB rear delt first super-set with upright row
- shrug - either BB or HS [Hammer Strength] - 4 working sets, 10-12 rep range, focus on the squeeze at the top, get wrist straps if you need
- DB lateral raise (i prefer standing, one arm a time) / DB seated (or standing BB) front raise *** you can stand up and do both arms lateral, then both arms front, repeat or.....left arm front / right arm lateral (1st rep) right into left arm lateral / right arm front (2nd rep) - make sense ?
- military press - 2-3 sets, 8 reps max

for myself, i'll never do both lateral AND front raise in the same workout, unless i'm super-setting. overkill to me.

FYI, when typing up your routine, keep it in this form: # Sets x # reps - appears you've got it backwards and had me really confused for a minute ha

[KeyMastur]

arms day:

i don't work my arms really (except forearms). i'm satisfied with the workout they get with other exercises and they're decently sized / defined as is.

but....if i may make one suggestion:

super-set !!! haha. or at least do a bicep exercise followed by a tricep exercise. give the muscle a little bit of time to recuperate so you can keep the weight heavy by the time you hit it again.

[Gucks]

now for the shoulder workout:



once again, put the exercise where you're wanting to expend the most energy, at the front. (with legs, the curl / ext combo was just a warm-up).

i'd definitely recommend a clean & press with a split jerk as your very first exercise. it's taxing yes, but it'll target your entire shoulder area. plus you'll look cool doing it [if you're like me and the only one who does it in my gym]. then you can re-order some of the exercises below:

if not, i'd go this route:

- arnold / military press - 4-5 working sets, 5-6 rep range - get a spotter
- upright row (using EZ-curl bar + weights) / DB rear delt (your choice of rear pec dec machine, seated / bent over DB) - 3 sets, no need for a warm-up, 6-8 range. you can even flip an do DB rear delt first super-set with upright row
- shrug - either BB or HS [Hammer Strength] - 4 working sets, 10-12 rep range, focus on the squeeze at the top, get wrist straps if you need
- DB lateral raise (i prefer standing, one arm a time) / DB seated (or standing BB) front raise *** you can stand up and do both arms lateral, then both arms front, repeat or.....left arm front / right arm lateral (1st rep) right into left arm lateral / right arm front (2nd rep) - make sense ?
- military press - 2-3 sets, 8 reps max

for myself, i'll never do both lateral AND front raise in the same workout, unless i'm super-setting. overkill to me.

FYI, when typing up your routine, keep it in this form: # Sets x # reps - appears you've got it backwards and had me really confused for a minute ha

sry 4 geting sets and reps backwards :P wont happen again lol. and i tryed arnold press last week 4 shoulders. love them!gonna make it a stple i think! the thing i dont like about clean & jerks is u cant stop yourself bringin momentum into it...impossibly 2 stop ur back swinging and ur legs helping u out. ill let u know if i like them tho! 2moro morning is shoulders :P i use cable crossover 4 read delts. prefer the constant tension! bent over DB just pisses me off, dont feel im hiting them as hard as cables. last thing is the shrugs. ive always wondered behind or infront? every1 has a different opinion. my gym has shrug bar aswell which i love, is 10-12 reps not 2 much..? ive always gone 8.

thanks very much! ill post shoulder workouts up 2moro

[Gucks]

As long as you do your excercises with proper form then you'll be good. Nothing wrong with push pull but it gets boring.

tryed ur leg workout on monday, just had 2 say the DOMS was savage :P i no ppl say thts not necessarily a sign of a gd workout but i love it. my skool is 4 stories high though...top floor 4 3 classes yesterday. nearly died. going heavier made a pretty big difference. thanks!