Workout routine - please comment

[ziggz]

Hey guys. I have been leaning out for some time now and just got a lot of help in the diet section to really nail down a good carb cycling diet. But I am really lost when it comes to formulating a good workout routine. I am no stranger to the gym, but I just don't know what I should be focusing on most, rep/set count, etc.
I am not naturally very strong, so anything that helps me build up my back, chest and legs is probably ideal. I realize that since I am trying to lean out first, I probably won't be able to add much mass, but I plan to switch to a bulking routine in a couple of months.

About me:

Height: 6'0
Weight: 205 (down from 250 a year ago)
BF: 20 - 22%
Diet: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...53#post5573653

Current routine:

Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio
Wednesday Arms + PWO cardio
Thursday: Back + PWO cardio
Friday: Shoulders + PWO cardio
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day)

Legs:

Squats: Going low to the ground - no half squats.
Warmup set
Set 1: 135 x 10 reps
Set 2: 155 x 8 reps
Set 3: 185 x 5 reps (a little cheating)

Stiff legged deadlifts (Might have to drop weight, since my form stinks.. arching my back)
Warmup Set
Set 1: 205 x 10
Set 2: 225 x 8
Set 3: 225 x 6

Standing Calf Raises (machine)
3 Sets of 120 x 12

Chest:

Incline Barbell Press
Set 1: 95 x 12 (easy)
Set 2: 115 x 10 (just barely)
Set 3: 125 x 5 (was going for 8)

Flat Dumbell Press
3 Sets of 50 x 7 (can do much more if it is my first exercise)

(the previous week I did flat barbell press:
Set 1: 135 x 8 reps
Set 2: 155 x 5 reps (help on last)
Set 3: 135 x 6 reps)

Dumbell Flys:
3 Sets of 27.5 - 10 - 12 reps

Arms:

Biceps Barbell Curl:
Warmup - 35
Set 1: 50 x 10
Set 2: 70 x 8
Set 3: 75 x 6
Drop set: 80 x 3, 70 x 2, 50 x 4
(I make sure to keep good form.. keep elbows in place and no using delts/back to help)

Close Grip Bench on Smith Machine
Set 1: 25 x 10
Set 2: 35 x 8
Set 3: 45 x 6

Biceps Incline Dumbell Curl (Alternating)
3 Sets of 35/40 x 8

Lying Barbell tricep extensions:
3 Sets of 60 x 8

Hammer Curls:
3 sets of 35 x 8

Back:
Gravity Assisted Pullup:
2 Sets of 110 x 12

Bent over barbell row (pronated grip)
3 Sets of 35 x 8

Deadlifts (working on form)
135 - 155 until I get good form.

V-Bar Pulldowns
3 sets of 125 x 8

Shoulders:

Shoulder Dumbell Press
Set 1: 25 x 15
Set 2: 35 x 12
Set 3: 45 x 10
Set 4: 50 x 6
Set 5: 50 x 7

Single Arm Cable Lateral Raises
3 Sets of 45 x 8

Standing Bent over Dumbell lateral raises
3 Sets of 27.5 x 3

Barbell Upright Rows
3 Sets of 85 x 3

Dumbell Shrugs with straps
3 sets of 90 x 8 - 10

[Damienm05]

1 - leg routine is way weak. I'd say 15 sets, not including calves is a minimum. Something like 5 sets of squats, 3 sets of straight leg deads, 3 sets of leg press, 3 sets of laying leg curl, a couple laps of walking DB lunges.

2- Arms routine looks Ok but vary it up frequently

3- chest routine is decent but the key is variation. You do incline BB one week, do decline the next. Flat DB one week, Incline DB the next. Decline BB one week, dips the next - etc... always change it up and work all insertion points. Key is form/contraction and actually targetting chest.

3- back is decent but vary it up - the bent over BB rows/Deads/a pulldown movement are a must but try different variations. Like legs, this is a huge muscle group and you should really hit it hard. 4-5 sets of bent over rows/supported t-bar rows. 4-5 sets wide pullups, 3-4 sets neutral/narrow, 3-4 seated low-row variation, sometime lat pullover/pushdown, always deadlifts.

4- I really like your shoulder routine.

I'd switch arms/legs - that way you have a day of rest for your arms before hitting back/chest - that or move them to after delts.

[ziggz]

Thanks Damien!

1 - for legs what kind of weight/reps do I want for each? I also tried a couple weeks ago to do lunges after squats and my legs were just too damn exhausted. Could be because I wasn't conditioned for it at the time and that maybe I could pull them off now.

2 - When you say to vary it.. Do i change the exercises each week? Also, what sort of weights/reps should I be targeting? I read so many damn articles on workout routines.. everyone seems to have a different philosophy that I don't know what to do.

3 - Since I have a pretty weak chest, I was reading that incline presses are the best to start with and that I could build up a lot of strength if I concentrate mostly on those. I don't know if you agree?

I think am most confused on the weight/rep count for each set. It also kinda stinks to be 6'0 and 205 (albeit 20% fat) and barely be able to bench or squat or deadlift!

[pebble]

Routine isn't that bad. I appreciate that you laid out exactly what you do.

I think you need some unilateral work for your legs, lunges or steps. You also need to add in a couple more back exercises (horizontal pulls) to ensure you do not end up with internal rotation of the shoulders. Try tossing in a few more sets of a rowing - cable or db. And also toss in face pulls.

FYI - about the curls some flexion should be expected at the shoulder - the biceps do crosses the shoulder joint. But do try to minimize it. you shouldn't be swinging the weight up. It just may so happen that as you bring the weight up the elbow will raise due to shortening the nature of the double jointed beast.

And I do agree with Damienm05 about adjusting your arm day to better fit, maybe legs, chest, back, arms, shoulders.

[Damienm05]

Thanks Damien!

1 - for legs what kind of weight/reps do I want for each? I also tried a couple weeks ago to do lunges after squats and my legs were just too damn exhausted. Could be because I wasn't conditioned for it at the time and that maybe I could pull them off now. The standard bodybuilding 8-12 rep range is good for the heavy compound stuff - squats/leg press. I'm actually a firm believer in doing SLDLs light and really focussing on hitting the ham string/emphasising the eccentric. For laying leg curls, walking step lunges, maybe 20, 16, 14, 12. And yeah, just push hard - take a decent rest pause if you need it.

2 - When you say to vary it.. Do i change the exercises each week? Also, what sort of weights/reps should I be targeting? I read so many damn articles on workout routines.. everyone seems to have a different philosophy that I don't know what to do. Yes, my program changes every time I walk in the gym. Not to say my rep ranges/volume - but I never do the same exercise on back-to-back weeks unless it's heavy squats, deads, leg presses, bent over rows. My variations of tricep extensions/pushdwons, curls, chest presses, and military presses/raises always change. Even upright rows, I'll alternate DBs with BB and cable rope. If you find one movement truly superior FOR YOU - then stick with it for 8-12 weeks but no program should be run longer than that imo without some change in rep ranges/rest pause/etc. See my "arms routine post"

3 - Since I have a pretty weak chest, I was reading that incline presses are the best to start with and that I could build up a lot of strength if I concentrate mostly on those. I don't know if you agree? I think that's an asinine statement. It's like saying preacher curls are the most effective way to train biceps for begginners. It depends on genetics, how your shoulders hinge, what other supporting groups are lacking, many factors. A strong well-rounded chest is built on form and variation. Also, negatives are great.

I think am most confused on the weight/rep count for each set. It also kinda stinks to be 6'0 and 205 (albeit 20% fat) and barely be able to bench or squat or deadlift! Dont get down about it - think of it as an opportunity. I weigh more than you with 1/2 the body fat and lift like a beast but it sucks that it takes weeks of hard training and food to gain an ounce of strength naturally!!! I miss being able to gain every time I stepped in the gym - enjoy the ride man. For rep ranges/weight - I'd suggest starting with higher reps 10-12 for your first sets and then 8, 6, 4 for your last with weight increasing. I'm a firm believer in training beyond failure for beginners. Once you are carrying a lot of mass, it's another story but really destroy on those last couple low rep/heavy weight sets

Link to "arms routine" http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ine&highlight=

Link to my last posted program, Note I still follow a similar variation. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...se.&highlight=

[ziggz]

Thank you Pebble.

Damien, those links are great! I'll change some stuff around to model around what you have there. Does the routine make a big difference if I have a different body type/build/genetics than you?

With my current routine as:
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio
Wednesday Arms + PWO cardio
Thursday: Back + PWO cardio
Friday: Shoulders + PWO cardio
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day)

I tried to keep a good separation between legs and back, otherwise I feel like my deadlifts suffer if my legs are not properly rested.

Maybe I can do:

Monday: Legs - carb up
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio - low carbs
Wednesday Shoulders + PWO cardio - moderate carbs
Thursday: Arms + PWO cardio - low carbs
Friday: Back + PWO cardio - moderate carbs
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day) - no carbs

Is that any better? Is my carb cycle any good for leaning out efficiently?

[Damienm05]

Thank you Pebble.

Damien, those links are great! I'll change some stuff around to model around what you have there. Does the routine make a big difference if I have a different body type/build/genetics than you? Sure it does, that's why you should just use my variations as a guideline and figure out what gives you the best pump/feeling/results as you go. As far as more volume for bigger muscle groups, keeping rep ranges in the bodybuilding realm generally, and getting sufficient rest - that goes for everyone.

With my current routine as:
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio
Wednesday Arms + PWO cardio
Thursday: Back + PWO cardio
Friday: Shoulders + PWO cardio
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day) No, back hits biceps hard, chest hits triceps hard - some people don't even train arms directly and you're doing them 3 consecutive days. Go for Legs, chest, back, shoulders, arms, 2 days rest.

I tried to keep a good separation between legs and back, otherwise I feel like my deadlifts suffer if my legs are not properly rested. I feel you, the split above gives you a full day. You'll still be sore but that only increases the efficiency of the movement in terms of back growth. Legs, particularly hamstrings will grow just fine.

Maybe I can do:

Monday: Legs - carb up
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio - low carbs
Wednesday Shoulders + PWO cardio - moderate carbs
Thursday: Arms + PWO cardio - low carbs
Friday: Back + PWO cardio - moderate carbs
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day) - no carbs

Is that any better? Is my carb cycle any good for leaning out efficiently?

I wouldn't worry about cycling carbs according to your workout so much - you should maintain an emergency reserve of glycogen regardless.

[ziggz]

Damien, but we worked out a cutting diet based on carb cycling - so I am confused.

[Damienm05]

Right, cycle your carbs just don't do it according to your workouts. Just a 4-day cycle. Your no-carb day is gonna be your best energy day if anything (because you'll be coming off a high carb day and be pumping w/ energy). Just saying, as such, it doesn't matter. Eat clean, cycle carbs, lift hard, rest - results.

[ziggz]

oh, I see.. I misread what you wrote. So even if carb up day falls on rest day, no big deal? I thought it's better to get the moderate and high carb days in on heavy workout days.. like chest/back/legs just so that you can make the most progress on a cutting diet.

[Damienm05]

I'm just saying it's something you have to figure out for yourself as you go and implement trial/error. Recovery isn't about how much you eat of what on THE DAY you work out - you're sore/recovering all week - the nutrients will get where they need to go. Ideally, yes - the higher cal days should fall on heavy workout days but don't sacrifice rest/the workout itself to achieve this

[ziggz]

oh ok. Got it! Thanks Damien.

[ziggz]

Hey Damien.

I did your leg workout:

BB squat: 12/10/8/6
Straight-leg deads: 16/14/12/10
Angled leg press: 12/10/8
Walking DB lunges: 3 X 20
DB step-ups: 3 X 20

got some questions. Any reason you go high reps on most of the lifts instead of low reps, heavy weights? For example, on the stiff leg deadlifts, I am wiped out and out of breath by rep 12, even though the weight isn't heavy.

[Damienm05]

Well for step-ups/lunges I prefer a higher rep range because you're cutting and it's great cardio and will surely improve your overall conditioning/explosiveness big time. Also, the strain is progressive and those first 6-8 reps are gonna make the last 12 a bitch!

For your deads, take them slow and go even lower on the weight. Go down and touch your tip toes with the BB keeping your legs 100% straight so the hams bear everything - hold at the pinnacle of the strain for a 2-count, inhale and go back up. Don't do them fast.

[ziggz]

Yeah. I am still trying to get my form right with stiff leg deadlifts. I am finding that I can't really keep my back straight though if I don't bend my knees just a bit. Is this bad?

[SG2009]

what do u intent 2 achieve. I think u need to rotate your exercise.

Hey guys. I have been leaning out for some time now and just got a lot of help in the diet section to really nail down a good carb cycling diet. But I am really lost when it comes to formulating a good workout routine. I am no stranger to the gym, but I just don't know what I should be focusing on most, rep/set count, etc.
I am not naturally very strong, so anything that helps me build up my back, chest and legs is probably ideal. I realize that since I am trying to lean out first, I probably won't be able to add much mass, but I plan to switch to a bulking routine in a couple of months.

About me:

Height: 6'0
Weight: 205 (down from 250 a year ago)
BF: 20 - 22%
Diet: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...53#post5573653

Current routine:

Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest + PWO cardio
Wednesday Arms + PWO cardio
Thursday: Back + PWO cardio
Friday: Shoulders + PWO cardio
Sat/Sun: rest (AM cardio one day)

Legs:

Squats: Going low to the ground - no half squats.
Warmup set
Set 1: 135 x 10 reps
Set 2: 155 x 8 reps
Set 3: 185 x 5 reps (a little cheating)

Stiff legged deadlifts (Might have to drop weight, since my form stinks.. arching my back)
Warmup Set
Set 1: 205 x 10
Set 2: 225 x 8
Set 3: 225 x 6

Standing Calf Raises (machine)
3 Sets of 120 x 12

Chest:

Incline Barbell Press
Set 1: 95 x 12 (easy)
Set 2: 115 x 10 (just barely)
Set 3: 125 x 5 (was going for 8)

Flat Dumbell Press
3 Sets of 50 x 7 (can do much more if it is my first exercise)

(the previous week I did flat barbell press:
Set 1: 135 x 8 reps
Set 2: 155 x 5 reps (help on last)
Set 3: 135 x 6 reps)

Dumbell Flys:
3 Sets of 27.5 - 10 - 12 reps

Arms:

Biceps Barbell Curl:
Warmup - 35
Set 1: 50 x 10
Set 2: 70 x 8
Set 3: 75 x 6
Drop set: 80 x 3, 70 x 2, 50 x 4
(I make sure to keep good form.. keep elbows in place and no using delts/back to help)

Close Grip Bench on Smith Machine
Set 1: 25 x 10
Set 2: 35 x 8
Set 3: 45 x 6

Biceps Incline Dumbell Curl (Alternating)
3 Sets of 35/40 x 8

Lying Barbell tricep extensions:
3 Sets of 60 x 8

Hammer Curls:
3 sets of 35 x 8

Back:
Gravity Assisted Pullup:
2 Sets of 110 x 12

Bent over barbell row (pronated grip)
3 Sets of 35 x 8

Deadlifts (working on form)
135 - 155 until I get good form.

V-Bar Pulldowns
3 sets of 125 x 8

Shoulders:

Shoulder Dumbell Press
Set 1: 25 x 15
Set 2: 35 x 12
Set 3: 45 x 10
Set 4: 50 x 6
Set 5: 50 x 7

Single Arm Cable Lateral Raises
3 Sets of 45 x 8

Standing Bent over Dumbell lateral raises
3 Sets of 27.5 x 3

Barbell Upright Rows
3 Sets of 85 x 3

Dumbell Shrugs with straps
3 sets of 90 x 8 - 10

[SuperLift]

Definitely raise the volume on your leg workouts.

3-4 working sets of squats
3 sets of stiff dl
3 sets of leg press
3 sets of leg ext
3 sets for calves

[SuperLift]

Yeah. I am still trying to get my form right with stiff leg deadlifts. I am finding that I can't really keep my back straight though if I don't bend my knees just a bit. Is this bad?

In a stiff leg dead lift, it is ok to slightly bend your knees, that is normal. Keep your back straight and lower the weight close to your body slightly bending your knees. Try sticking your butt out while lowering the weight while also keeping your chest up as much as possible (still lowering the weight to the correct point).

[ziggz]

Hey guys. Another leg day question. My routine is as follows:

BB squat: 12/10/8/6
Straight-leg deads: 16/14/12/10
Angled leg press: 12/10/8
Walking DB lunges: 3 X 20
DB step-ups: 3 X 20

I am having a lot of trouble doing the walking DB lunges. My legs are just really worn out by then and even with 15 - 20 lb dumbbells, I am struggling to get 12 reps (alternating). I don't even think my form is all that great either, because my legs are exhausted. I am having the same issue with the step ups. Any advice? Thanks!

[Mace1988]

Great advice so far, as far as being exhausted with lunges, I'd just push through it, even go body weight only if you need to. The lunge is an odd movement, takes some getting used to, especially weighted. Your legs are so strong and resilient naturally, they really need crushed from all angles in order to force growth.

[Damienm05]

Great advice so far, as far as being exhausted with lunges, I'd just push through it, even go body weight only if you need to. The lunge is an odd movement, takes some getting used to, especially weighted. Your legs are so strong and resilient naturally, they really need crushed from all angles in order to force growth.

This.

[Damienm05]

I want you to incorporate a "leg crank" every other week to burn out. Replace your walking lunges with 4 sets of this:

-One set = 24 consecutive weightless wide squats, 24 consecutive alternating leg lunges, Jumping jacks to failure.

Keep tension up the whole time, the top and bottom of the squat/lunge are rest points - keep effective range of motion (ERM)

[ziggz]

I want you to incorporate a "leg crank" every other week to burn out. Replace your walking lunges with 4 sets of this:

-One set = 24 consecutive weightless wide squats, 24 consecutive alternating leg lunges, Jumping jacks to failure.

Keep tension up the whole time, the top and bottom of the squat/lunge are rest points - keep effective range of motion (ERM)

Wow. So I have some questions. Do I use weights with the lunges? Do I rest in between the squats and lunges? Do I still do step ups? I have a feeling I am going to be out of breath before I can get through an entire set, but I can certainly give it my best.

[ziggz]

Hey Damien, I also switched to your arm routine today:

Straight BB curl, wide-grip: 12/10/8/6
Cable curls: 12/10/8
Alternating arm hammer curl: 12/10/8

Overhead DB extension: 12/10/8/6
DB kickbacks: 16/14/12
Rope push-downs: 12/10/8
Reverse grip one-arm push-downs with negatives: 12/10/8

I have a question about the last exercise. What do you mean by negatives? Also, do you do the overhead DB extensions standing or seated? And the cable curls, do you use a straight bar or ez curl? Thanks.

[Damienm05]

Negatives meaning you return to the starting position as slowly as possible. Great technique for growth- probably the best BB has to offer. For example, Bench press negatives are bringing the bar down as slowly as possible. I like to do 3 seconds or so and then for the last couple reps until failure, as long as you can.

For the "leg crank" - it's all weightless. You may fail before you complete the full thing, most people do. But you'll improve fast!