I hit a wall, and need help .

[mooseboy92]

Hey everybody although I'm new to the boards, I've been reading the discussions for about a year. I just turned 21 recently , and around this past March I decided to join a gym, and I really wanted to gain as much muscle as I could somewhat cleanly .

Here are my basic stats:

age: 21
sex: male
weight: 210 lbs.
height: 5' 11"
bodyfat %: 19

Below has been the upper body bulking split that I've been following since around April:

Sunday : Off

Monday : Chest

Bench Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Dumbbell Press (4 Sets X 8 Reps )
Flat Flyes Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps)

Tuesday : Back

Wide Grip Chin Ups (basically rep out as many as I can to warm up with for 2 sets)

Lat Pull Downs (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows (3 Sets X 8 Reps )

Wednesday : Triceps

Close Grip Bench Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Skullcrushers (4 Sets X 8 Reps )
Tricep Pushdowns (3 Sets X 10 Reps )

Thursday : Shoulders

Seated Barbell Shoulder Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Seated Dumbell Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )

Barbell Shrugs (5~6 sets 8 reps)

Friday : Biceps

Barbell Curls (6 Sets X 7~8 Reps )

Saturday : Off

I've had some modest success with this set up (I've went from benching 155X10 to 220 X 8-6-5) however, I feel that I've really hit a wall and I've totally plateaued, if not I'm actually losing gains. Right now I'm suffering from :

-annoying recurring shoulder pain (just not nearly as bad as before I took a week off)

-lengthy tricep soreness (like 4+ days) and failure to get a decent pump on the tricep day

-my elbow joints (whatever the name is for that) feels stiff and awful when I skullcrush

-worse yet I'm actually loosing strength on my tricep and delt lifts. about 10lbs or so far ! And this week it took a huge toll on my bench, I can only do 185X10, and 205 X 8. . .grrr

*had to note that from april till this past week, as counter productive and awful as this sounds, thanks to my ego, I was using my delts and tris moreso to move the barbell and dumbbells on my chest day than actually using my pecs.

These problems are really holding me back from my goal , which of course is to bulk up as swiftly (yet somewhat cleanly) and preferably before this black friday .

It's obvious I need a new training split. While I don't mind at all working out 5 days a week for each muscle group, my triceps and shoulders feel totally over extended by Friday when I train each group separately .

How do you think I should set up my training split to fix these problems ? I'm willing to try anything to get over this hump !

And of course, thanks in advance for your comments, ideas and suggestions

[mooseboy92]

Here's the revised split that I'm thinking about doing for next week:

Sunday : Off

Monday : Chest

Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Dumbbell Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Incline Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Incline Dumbbell Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Flat Dumbbell Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps)


Tuesday : Back

Wide Grip Chin Ups (basically rep out as many as I can to warm up with for 2 sets)

Bent Over Barbell Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
T-Bar Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lat Pull Downs (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - With a wider grip attachment (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - narrow grip (3 Sets X 12 Reps )


Wednesday : Triceps

Close Grip Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Skullcrushers (4 Sets X 10 Reps )
Tricep Pushdowns (3 Sets X 10 Reps )

Thursday : Shoulders

Seated Barbell Shoulder Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lateral Raises & Front Barbell Raises (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Rear Delt Reverse Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Barbell Shrugs (5~6 sets 8 reps)

Friday : Biceps

Barbell Curls (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Alternating Hammer Curl (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Machine Preacher Curls (3 Sets X 10 Reps)

Saturday : Off

I was thinking perhaps with the higher volume I'd have a better chance of focusing on cleaner form and focusing using/contracting the right muscle groups for each exercise.

And also instead of focusing on increasing the weight each week by 2.5lbs or 5lbs., I was thinking about only adding on more weight when I'd reach the desired number of reps (10) for that particular exercise throughout all the sets.

[stpete]

Hey everybody although I'm new to the boards, I've been reading the discussions for about a year. I just turned 21 recently , and around this past March I decided to join a gym, and I really wanted to gain as much muscle as I could somewhat cleanly .

Here are my basic stats:

age: 21
sex: male
weight: 210 lbs.
height: 5' 11"
bodyfat %: 19

Below has been the upper body bulking split that I've been following since around April:

Sunday : Off

Monday : Chest

Bench Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )Shoulder pain? Drop this and incorporate db incline
Dumbbell Press (4 Sets X 8 Reps )
Flat Flyes Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps)
Add bb decline
Tuesday : Back

Wide Grip Chin Ups (basically rep out as many as I can to warm up with for 2 sets)

Lat Pull Downs (3 Sets X 8 Reps )Close grip?
Seated Cable Rows (3 Sets X 8 Reps )

Wednesday : Triceps

Close Grip Bench Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Skullcrushers (4 Sets X 8 Reps )
Tricep Pushdowns (3 Sets X 10 Reps )Get rid of this for now.
Might want to add bb rows, Bent over db's
Thursday : Shoulders

Seated Barbell Shoulder Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
Seated Dumbell Press (3 Sets X 8 Reps )
2 presses are ok sometimes but i'd rather use side and front mixed up between cables and db's. Don't forget rear delts.
Barbell Shrugs (5~6 sets 8 reps)

Friday : Biceps

Barbell Curls (6 Sets X 7~8 Reps )
Not nearly enough. Alternate db's, hammer curls, cable curls etc....[/B]
Saturday : Off
Give arms their own day or at least do bi's w/ back and tri's w/chest. Tri's before shoulders isn't any good imo.
I've had some modest success with this set up (I've went from benching 155X10 to 220 X 8-6-5) however, I feel that I've really hit a wall and I've totally plateaued, if not I'm actually losing gains. Right now I'm suffering from :

-annoying recurring shoulder pain (just not nearly as bad as before I took a week off)Mentioned why imo

-lengthy tricep soreness (like 4+ days) and failure to get a decent pump on the tricep day Need more rest

-my elbow joints (whatever the name is for that) feels stiff and awful when I skullcrush

-worse yet I'm actually loosing strength on my tricep and delt lifts. about 10lbs or so far ! And this week it took a huge toll on my bench, I can only do 185X10, and 205 X 8. . .grrr

*had to note that from april till this past week, as counter productive and awful as this sounds, thanks to my ego, I was using my delts and tris moreso to move the barbell and dumbbells on my chest day than actually using my pecs.

These problems are really holding me back from my goal , which of course is to bulk up as swiftly (yet somewhat cleanly) and preferably before this black friday .

It's obvious I need a new training split. While I don't mind at all working out 5 days a week for each muscle group, my triceps and shoulders feel totally over extended by Friday when I train each group separately .

How do you think I should set up my training split to fix these problems ? I'm willing to try anything to get over this hump !

And of course, thanks in advance for your comments, ideas and suggestions

This is just somewhere to start and some of my opinions. And you didn't mention legs or calves or abs. Revise your workout including your legs. No workout is complete without them.

[stpete]

Forget what i said about the pushdowns. For some reason i thought you had those in with back day. Sorry.

[lifter65]

you're training your shoulders and triceps 3 times a week
you're not doing nearly enough pulling exercises, that could be the source of your shoulder pain
imo drop bodypart splits and start training like an athlete

[mooseboy92]

Thanks for the input. So from what both of you have suggested, I shouldn't work delts, triceps and chest separately ? How about if I did triceps after my shoulders ? I couldn't really go through the chest/tris and back/bi's split, because my arms get so tired after training those two larger muscle groups.

So is this what my shoulder/tricep and back days should look like ?

Shoulders/Tricep

Seated Barbell Shoulder Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lateral Raises & Front Barbell Raises (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Rear Delt Reverse Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Barbell Shrugs (3 sets 8 reps)

Skullcrushers (4 Sets X 10 Reps )
Tricep Pushdowns (3 Sets X 10 Reps )

Back

Bent Over Barbell Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
T-Bar Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lat Pull Downs (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - With a wider grip attachment (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - narrow grip (3 Sets X 12 Reps )

[stpete]

Here's the revised split that I'm thinking about doing for next week:
OK, if you have to go to the gym strictly between monday and friday, it should look like this:
Chest
Back
Legs
Shoulders
Arms....Could be better if we allowed for saturday and sunday.

Sunday : Off

Monday : Chest

Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Dumbbell Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Incline Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Incline Dumbbell Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Flat Dumbbell Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
This is a total of 18 sets. Too much! Drop the bench and incline bench.

Tuesday : Back

Wide Grip Chin Ups (basically rep out as many as I can to warm up with for 2 sets)

Bent Over Barbell Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
T-Bar Rows (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lat Pull Downs (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - With a wider grip attachment (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
Seated Cable Rows - narrow grip (3 Sets X 12 Reps )
This is good, but alternate bb rows and t-bar.

Wednesday : Triceps

Close Grip Bench Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Skullcrushers (4 Sets X 10 Reps )
Tricep Pushdowns (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Good, but do this on arm day.
Thursday : Shoulders

Seated Barbell Shoulder Press (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Lateral Raises & Front Barbell Raises (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Rear Delt Reverse Flyes (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Barbell Shrugs (5~6 sets 8 reps)
Alternate bb presses with db presses. Also alternate your raises with cables from time to time.
Friday : Biceps

Barbell Curls (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Alternating Hammer Curl (3 Sets X 10 Reps )
Machine Preacher Curls (3 Sets X 10 Reps)
Decent, also add alternate db, cambered bar and cables.
Saturday : Off

I was thinking perhaps with the higher volume I'd have a better chance of focusing on cleaner form and focusing using/contracting the right muscle groups for each exercise.

And also instead of focusing on increasing the weight each week by 2.5lbs or 5lbs., I was thinking about only adding on more weight when I'd reach the desired number of reps (10) for that particular exercise throughout all the sets.

Why haven't you added legs yet? And don't forget that diet is a major contributor to your success.

[mooseboy92]

Honestly, I haven't added in the leg part yet as I'm trying to get to the source of this shoulder issue and why my upper body has plateaued so horribly, if not gotten weaker . As for the diet part, it's not really as clean as it should be , however I do get in 200g~225g of protein each day, and since I'm at a high 19%~20% bodyfat percentage, I'm probably being a fatass and eating more than I need to bulk up. I guess I should also mention since I work two mall jobs, I get 30% off everything at GNC anytime I want and 75% off all the stuff at Vitamin world so I do have all the basic supplements like whey , NO, multis/fish oil, creatine, glutamine , zma, ect (not that I work at those two stores).

[lifter65]

mooseboy... training legs will make your whole body stronger, stop being a woose and get to the power rack!

[Str8Jakked]

mooseboy... training legs will make your whole body stronger, stop being a woose and get to the power rack!

Agreed.

Start Squatting and Dead Lifting.

[mooseboy92]

mooseboy... training legs will make your whole body stronger, stop being a woose and get to the power rack!

What's the point ? I live right next to Staten Island , no one from 18~24 in a 30 mile radius actually squats when they GTL . . . ok, I'm just joking there.

Fine , fine I'll squat, do leg curls/extensions , and leg press . Seriously, I just don't see how this will help with my horrible *shoulder* problem which is hurting a lot of my upper body lifts and making me smaller .
Speaking of that problem stpete, you think I'd be better off just combining the tricep and shoulder day so they're not being trained 3X a week like lifter65 mentioned ?

[stpete]

Yes, do tri's after your delts.

[lifter65]

What's the point ? I live right next to Staten Island , no one from 18~24 in a 30 mile radius actually squats when they GTL . . . ok, I'm just joking there.

Fine , fine I'll squat, do leg curls/extensions , and leg press . Seriously, I just don't see how this will help with my horrible *shoulder* problem which is hurting a lot of my upper body lifts and making me smaller .
Speaking of that problem stpete, you think I'd be better off just combining the tricep and shoulder day so they're not being trained 3X a week like lifter65 mentioned ?

haha gtl... but anyways if it were up to me youd be doing an upper/lower split, both twice a week and keepin the pullin to pushin ratio 3:1 until that shoulder problem went away, then go to 2:1

[mooseboy92]

haha gtl... but anyways if it were up to me youd be doing an upper/lower split, both twice a week and keepin the pullin to pushin ratio 3:1 until that shoulder problem went away, then go to 2:1

How would you set that up so you'd hit that ratio ? Have like nine sets of rowing exercises and three sets of pushing exercises for the day ?

[lifter65]

9 sets of pulling exercise (vertical and horizontal) to 3 sets of pushing exercises (veryical and horizontal) twice a week