squat problems?

[flexshack]

hey guys
i am having trouble with my squats. i think i was stupid not to wear a belt. i am not sure though because i have heard that belts cause you to rely too much on them and you won't develop strength in your lower back? is this true? anyway, my squats are giving me great great great lower back pain!! would a belt help? if so, how much do they cost and where can i find one? if i need to strengthen my lower back, like with a dead lift, then please tell me the proper form or technique for it. this problem is really screwing me over because when i blow out my lower back, my other lifts are compromised. could it be that i am going too low when i squat because i noticed that when i didn't go as low, my back pain was lessened. if i do this though, i am afraid that my muscles won't get worked enough or hit in the correct way. anyway, any recommendations, advice, or comments are more than welcome. please help me. thanks guys.
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[Billy Boy]

Stop at once and get it checked out.I personally never squat without a belt.In fact I find squats never really fatigue my legs its always something else that goes first.Stay away from squats until the back is better and get a belt!

Relying on a belt can weaken you back ONLY if you wear it for every excercise most wear it for heavy movements

[Dr. Derek]

first of all what type of pain is it? does it continue to stay sore days after you squat, or does it go away? In my opinion Squats are essential to build overall leg thickness, the kind of thickness you see in the pro ranks i.e Tom Prince, and it would be a bummer if you would have to eliminate them totally from your workouts. Try this and see if it helps at all. Widen your stance, farther than shoulder width. The first thing to move in a squat is your hips, they should rotate slightly outward, with a wide stance and your hips rotated out it places more stress on your hams and glutes in the bottom position. Remember to try to support the low back by tightening your abdominals. Try it and see. If the pain persists see a doctor, one that knows sports injury.

I also suggest that you use deadlifts and a belt during both this exercise and the squat.

Let me know how it turns out.

[flexshack]

thanks guys
when i said i blew out my back, i think i exaggerated a little. i meant that the pain is strongest when i am actually doing the squat (especially when i try to stand back up straight in the movement) but the pain lessens after i stop. it only stays with me for that day or evening. the next day, it is gone. i guess i am very lucky so far. i have just started squating so i have only been through the pain about twice.
dr. derek, thanks for the advice especially about proper form. can you just also tell me the proper form for the deadlift? also, how much do belts cost and where are they sold? thanks again.
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[KeyMastur]

oh, your pain is just a little strain on your lower back then, nothing major. i always get that when i do my legs, especially on the squatts - even when i wear a belt. proper form can be a minor problem as well. take Derek's advice and widen your stance. here's what i see when i look down. notice my feet are wide, and my feet are pointed out a little bit, not straight forward. this helps me get low. i go parallel if not a little below parallel. but, it all depends on if you're used to squatting. i 180 days out of the year (body squats), so i'm used to the movement.

[RON]

I love squats and always have. BUT i don't ever do more than a half squat (knees bent at 90 deg). I have done quarter squats in the past but rarely and only with light weights and good form. When I go past parallel I feel that I wanna slump over a little and that can cause back problems. Check your form make sure you keep your back arched.

[Ilyich]

Also remember that good mornings are probably the best exercise to develop lower back strength. I noticed since I started doing them 1-2 times a week squatting got somewhat easier, especially on the ascent when the bar tends to push you forward I can still maintain good form.
Although I wouldn't do good mornings or anything else heavy on the lower back till you get it checked out.

[Rocket]

I have been traing for 17 years, after a lay off I noticed that my lowers back would ache from squats, I quit squatting for 3 months but did abs and lower back (good mornings) for that time. I am now back to squats after on 4 months 365X5 no pain. I think you should lay off the squats for awhile hit abs at least 3 times a week good morning once a week, start light (50lbs), than ease back into the squats.

Rocket

[flexshack]

thanks fellas
btw, what are "good mornings"? thanks
flex

[Tobey]

Good Mornings are great for lower back developement however they should ALWAYS be preformed with low weight as they as an extremely high risk movement. Here is what they are.

1) Standing with your legs a few inches apart, Place a barbell across your shoulders as if you were going to preform a squat. ( across the back ot your neck)

2) Keeping your legs locked and your back straight, bend forward from the waist with your head looking up until your torso is parallel to the floor. Hold this for a moment and then come back up to the standing position.

If you are still having lower back pains I, like the rest of the guy's would advise you to have it checked out with a doctor.

About Squats...
The one thing that I have not seen anyone post is proper form and MOSTLEY having a good spotter while you are doing the squats as without these to factors it could easily lead to searious injury. Always have a spotter standing behind you while squatting. If for any reason you begin to lean forward in the upward movement have the spotter wrap his arm around your waist helping you up with the lift. Many times when you are squatting especially with heavy weight you will tend to lean INTO the squat on the upward movement and the result is almost always lower back pain. Try focousing the weight on your heels not your toes in the upward movement. Keep your head looking straight toward the ceiling to keep your back straight with your feet about shoulder width apart. Hope this helps.
IC

[flexshack]

tobey, excellent post. thanks bro. very detailed and well written on the proper form. that's one thing i need to learn with squats. and i will try to do those good mornings also. btw, what is considered a "low" weight for them? thanks again.
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[RON]

light to start out would be the bar. heavy weight can do more harm than good. Hyperextensions on the roman chair are good too. You can hold weight across your chest and they are much safer

[flexshack]

thanks ron
btw, what exactly are roman chairs though? thanks again.
flex

[RON]

shes doing hyperextentions

[Tobey]

Good call Ron,

Ron is right on with this one. Try the bar at first. You can always go up in weight later. I would not put more than a ten on each side of the bar after I have gottne use to the bar itself.

[flexshack]

oh, that's the roman chair. i actually have done that before. i just didn't know the tech. name for it. i knew they were called hyperextensions, but i didn't know about the roman chair name. thanks. actually, i have done a sort of modified hyperextension also, which required no machine. i lay on my stomach and hyperextend my upper body off the floor and hold and release. i think that the roman chair is better though. i feel more worked out after the roman chair than the floor ones. anyway, thanks again.
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[Dr. Derek]

To answer your first question deadlift form, it is hard to explain, since there are a few different variations of a deadlift. Number One "traditional" and "Sumo" style. If you are not a competative PL then I suggest that you stick with the traditional style, which I will attempt to explain.

Start with the bar at your feet. Take a shoulder wide stance. Now with your arms down at your side squat down to parallel and take a grip that is wider than your legs. reverse your grip, ie you dominant grip is palm in and your weak grip is palm out. You should be in a position with the bar touching or almost touching your shins. Now is the tricky part, lifting the weight.

drop your hips down so that there is no slack in your arms (arms straight).---take a deep breath-- Now pull the weight upward ---breathing out----with your abs tight---using predominatly your legs, preferablly your glutes, hamstring and then back--in that order-- until you are completely erect. reverse the process during your decent.

Once you have made it to the floor a suggest that you reposition yourself, properly before coducting another rep.

I suggest you by a magazine or book that will show you pictures of the deadlift. It is a very technical movement, which if not performed correctly could quickly end your weight lifting venture.

Second ? Buying a belt. You can get them from just about any sporting goods store, but the quality will depend on your budget. The best belt in my opinion are Cardillo Belts, custom made. do a search on the web But any belt is better than no belt. Hope this answers some of your questions and if I left anything out guys please add on-- DD