Why Calves seem so unresponsive to growth and gains?

[Times Roman]

I think most of us have thought about this from time to time. You feel you are doing everything correctly, you hit the calves hard with the right amount of reps/sets, you are in a calorie surplus, your macros are all dialed in, and your calves just seem to grow ever so slowly.

Why is that you wonder?

I believe it is due to the composition of the muscle fiber found in everyone's calves. Calves are mostly slow twitch muscle fiber. As the most used muscle group in the body, there is a premium on being able to stand on your feet all day and not topple over. Not much strength is needed for this, but due to the sheer amount of time we are on our feet, our calve muscle fibers have evolved to be pretty muchs slow twitch fibers.

Unlike your triceps that are rarely used except for feats of strength (think pushing a stalled car out of a snow drift), your triceps are predominantly fast twitch.

This means your calves can do an incredible amount of reps given a moderate amount of weight.
and this means your triceps are incredibly strong given their small size, yet fatigue fairly rapidly.

the problem (if you want to call it a problem) with slow twitch muscle fiber, is that, relative to fast twitch muscle fiber, it's overall growth rate is much slower by nature and by design. additionally, muscle grows at rest, but due to the nature of calve muscles (being on your feet all day), calve muscles get little rest. Put the two conditions together, and you end up with a muscle group that responds very anemically to growth stimulus.

The moral of the story is that one must be very very patient to grow calves.

[AXx]

I completely agree, but 400lbs on leg press calf raises we/are STUPID. I am limping still. Not happy about this. Lol

[Beroo]

Good post, so since calves are mostly slow twitch muscle fibers should you focus on higher reps or is it lower reps?

[AXx]

Good post, so since calves are mostly slow twitch muscle fibers should you focus on higher reps or is it lower reps?

I honestly don't get anything out of them unless go heavy.

Scratch my last post. I just added it in my head and it was 300#. Sorry for the mixup. I do 12-15 reps with that.

[AXx]

I honestly don't get anything out of them unless go heavy.

Scratch my last post. I just added it in my head and it was 300#. Sorry for the mixup. I do 12-15 reps with that.

3sets

[MuscleInk]

I completely agree, but 400lbs on leg press calf raises we/are STUPID. I am limping still. Not happy about this. Lol

400? That all you got boy?

[MuscleInk]

3sets

Standing or sitting calf raises?

[AXx]

Standing or sitting calf raises?

Leg press?? Mine has a round calf raise position you can use at the bottom (hard to explain)

Not all I got just all I care to do Mr

[MuscleInk]

Leg press?? Mine has a round calf raise position you can use at the bottom (hard to explain)

Not all I got just all I care to do Mr

So you are in a seated position. That generally works the soleus more. Standing targets the gastrocnemius better.

[AXx]

So you are in a seated position. That generally works the soleus more. Standing targets the gastrocnemius better.

Yes sir seated position.

I like the way you talk. Lol

Unless a google few probably know what that means.

[MuscleInk]

Yes sir seated position.

I like the way you talk. Lol

Unless a google few probably know what that means.

Here's a picture....no its not a naked Asian woman this time:

[red_hulk]

My calves are decent, nothing special, but mostly because of martial arts growing up. A lot of standing on your toes and whatnot.

I took an anatomy class and the teacher told me that calves are the most common muscle implants in bodybuilding because they're so hard to grow compared to the rest of your body. The way he put it you either have them or you dont...then again anything will grow on juice

[baseline_9]

So you are in a seated position. That generally works the soleus more. Standing targets the gastrocnemius better.

Being seated on a leg press with not work the soleus more since the leg it still straight...

It's the bending of the leg that takes the tension off the gastrocnemius and transfers the load onto the soleus

[MuscleInk]

Being seated on a leg press with not work the soleus more since the leg it still straight...

It's the bending of the leg that takes the tension off the gastrocnemius and transfers the load onto the soleus

Correct. Ideally I'd recommend the seated and standing calf raises. I've used the seated incline press and straight press but personally I feel the greats contraction on standing raises (and seated for soleus). Just a preference.

Thanks b9.

[baseline_9]

Correct. Ideally I'd recommend the seated and standing calf raises. I've used the seated incline press and straight press but personally I feel the greats contraction on standing raises (and seated for soleus). Just a preference.

Thanks b9.

The reason you feel a greater contraction of both soleus and gastronemus when doing a standing raise over a calf press on a leg press machine is again due to tension on the calf....

Since the gastronemus crosses the knee joint, extension of that joint effects the 'feel' and even functionality of the calf muscles....


When doing a seated calf press on a leg press machine most people lock there knees out (usually because they are using too much weight) which tensions the gastronemus... With this tension on the gastronemus the soleus works a lot less...

Now in a standing calf raise most people do not lock there knees out with puts less tension on the gastronemus and enables the soleus to play more of a role....

Less tension on the gastronemus (via greater knee flexion) results in more soleus activation...


My top tip is to bend your legs while doing calf press on the leg press.... Not just slightly either, you can bend then a fair bit and use your hands on your thighs for support.... This will give you better soleus activation during the movement and actually a better peak contraction on the gastronemus I have found....


Ink'd, I'm not lecturing you lol.... Even if it seems that way.... Just sharing a bit of info related to your experience stated in the post in quoting for everyone...

[MuscleInk]

The reason you feel a greater contraction of both soleus and gastronemus when doing a standing raise over a calf press on a leg press machine is again due to tension on the calf....

Since the gastronemus crosses the knee joint, extension of that joint effects the 'feel' and even functionality of the calf muscles....

When doing a seated calf press on a leg press machine most people lock there knees out (usually because they are using too much weight) which tensions the gastronemus... With this tension on the gastronemus the soleus works a lot less...

Now in a standing calf raise most people do not lock there knees out with puts less tension on the gastronemus and enables the soleus to play more of a role....

Less tension on the gastronemus (via greater knee flexion) results in more soleus activation...

My top tip is to bend your legs while doing calf press on the leg press.... Not just slightly either, you can bend then a fair bit and use your hands on your thighs for support.... This will give you better soleus activation during the movement and actually a better peak contraction on the gastronemus I have found....

Ink'd, I'm not lecturing you lol.... Even if it seems that way.... Just sharing a bit of info related to your experience stated in the post in quoting for everyone...

Heck no bro! The feedback is welcome and appreciated. The more the better in fact. A big mistake in many lifts is poor form so any advice to improve that should be shared IMO.

I was always trained on the standing leg raises to lock the knees to keep the weight through the calves. This may limit the possible load if done correctly but with proper form activates the calves more effectively. Do you agree with this approach?

[ironbeck]

I think most of us have thought about this from time to time. You feel you are doing everything correctly, you hit the calves hard with the right amount of reps/sets, you are in a calorie surplus, your macros are all dialed in, and your calves just seem to grow ever so slowly.

Why is that you wonder?

I believe it is due to the composition of the muscle fiber found in everyone's calves. Calves are mostly slow twitch muscle fiber. As the most used muscle group in the body, there is a premium on being able to stand on your feet all day and not topple over. Not much strength is needed for this, but due to the sheer amount of time we are on our feet, our calve muscle fibers have evolved to be pretty muchs slow twitch fibers.

Unlike your triceps that are rarely used except for feats of strength (think pushing a stalled car out of a snow drift), your triceps are predominantly fast twitch.

This means your calves can do an incredible amount of reps given a moderate amount of weight.
and this means your triceps are incredibly strong given their small size, yet fatigue fairly rapidly.

the problem (if you want to call it a problem) with slow twitch muscle fiber, is that, relative to fast twitch muscle fiber, it's overall growth rate is much slower by nature and by design. additionally, muscle grows at rest, but due to the nature of calve muscles (being on your feet all day), calve muscles get little rest. Put the two conditions together, and you end up with a muscle group that responds very anemically to growth stimulus.

The moral of the story is that one must be very very patient to grow calves.

Absolutely agree with this concept, and traing calfs rather heavy is the only way to stimulate growth(don't forget to strecth.
My calfs are sick already, no need to ever work them out(I'm a toe walker).

[baseline_9]

Heck no bro! The feedback is welcome and appreciated. The more the better in fact. A big mistake in many lifts is poor form so any advice to improve that should be shared IMO.

I was always trained on the standing leg raises to lock the knees to keep the weight through the calves. This may limit the possible load if done correctly but with proper form activates the calves more effectively. Do you agree with this approach?

As I said, locking the knees is going to take the soleus out of the movement...... Which is good if you are trying to focus on the gastronemus.... Most people will use the standing calf raise and the seated calf raise machine in an attempt to train both gastronemus and soleus.... Makes sense really...


One thing worth noting is that the soleus is by far the bigger muscle and if you want overall calf size you want to be focusing on trainin it to the max.....

Gastronemus will give you that beautifull diamond shape but without the bulk of the soleus behind it your calves will still be small....

[AXx]

Well good I knew I was doing a little something right. I actually bend me knees

[MickeyKnox]

great post and fabulous responses!

i generally can't seem get any of my fast twitch muscles to grow unless i use high reps..like 20 reps. even if i go heavy low reps..no way. gotta go med/light and high reps for this guy.

[Times Roman]

The one thing i've noticed in the past about calves and reps, is that it seems to take forever to get them to start the burn, unless some ungodly amount of weight, and then after they start burning, it takes forever for them to go til failure. Calve muscles truly are incredible and their ability to work. But if your routine falls into the above scenerio, then in all probability, you are NOT working your calves correctly for growth. You need that "ungodly amount of weight" so that you get failure in a dozen reps or so. And then do three sets. Probably a good idea for one of those sets to be seated just to hit the muscle from a different angle.

I don't know what to tell you about resting your calves. Right after you exercise them to failure, what do you do? You get up and use your calf muscles walking around.

[AXx]

Well I have enjoyed this thread. But I have not enjoyed having this severe pain in my calves. This is brutal. I look like an idiot walking around. If I am still for a few minutes and get up its horrible

[MuscleInk]

Well I have enjoyed this thread. But I have not enjoyed having this severe pain in my calves. This is brutal. I look like an idiot walking around. If I am still for a few minutes and get up its horrible

Are you stretching?

Remember in June? I didn't warm up or stretch and suffered a grade 2 tear of my gastrocnemius. Almost suffered a compartment syndrome. Stretch that sheit out mang!!!

[AXx]

Are you stretching?

Remember in June? I didn't warm up or stretch and suffered a grade 2 tear of my gastrocnemius. Almost suffered a compartment syndrome. Stretch that sheit out mang!!!

Yes sir I'm stretching. It HURTS. lol

[MuscleInk]

Yes sir I'm stretching. It HURTS. lol

Where is the owie?

[AXx]

Where is the owie?

It's here.

[MuscleInk]

It's here.

Did you rub it? Maybe put some cream on it? Stroke it up and down?

[AXx]

Did you rub it? Maybe put some cream on it? Stroke it up and down?

Your being serious. Should I send a video of this as well??

[kelkel]

In total agreement with a lot of the tips above. Keeping the knees bent is rule #1 for me and always has been. IMHO, many people suffer from poor calf development as they just do not put in the same intensity of effort that they do for other favored body parts. Yes, genetics play a part and I understand that, although I feel that hard work can overcome many flaws. Work them hard, heavy and with a decent pace. They'll grow or be damned!

[RaginCajun]

This could make for a good calf stickie. My left calf is smaller than my right one, knee injury. In which way should I approach to build it up?

[Times Roman]

Did you rub it? Maybe put some cream on it? Stroke it up and down?

Are we still talking about a calf injury?

[AXx]

Are we still talking about a calf injury?

His mind stays in the gutter.

I was simply saying how big of a pvssy I am. Lol

Today was the worst yet. Limping all day. Fun fun

[MuscleInk]

His mind stays in the gutter.

I was simply saying how big of a pvssy I am. Lol

Today was the worst yet. Limping all day. Fun fun

Sorry. My mind was in the gutter. What'd you say?

[Times Roman]

I've been hammering my calves for quite a while now. fukkers never seem to get sore. i do them last on leg day, when I'm pooped. which is probably why not sore, since energy is beginning to ebb. I usually do two or three sets to failure. but they seem to be growing ever so slowly. at first, when i would look down, I just thought the size difference was the veins popping out. but when I look in the mirror, it's more than just that. in the past year, the base of the calf seems to have gotten noticeably thicker as well, and the peaks of the calves are much more pronounced. but damn! all that took over a year!!

[baseline_9]

This could make for a good calf stickie. My left calf is smaller than my right one, knee injury. In which way should I approach to build it up?

Just focus on one leg movements or isolateral movements... It's the only way to deal with imbalances.

[mockery]

didnt read the thread .. but from my experince with anatomy you walk all day long your calves are always firing. I dont think reps matter much to make them grow. just do as much weight as possible. a few pro's have mentioned this as well.. give it a go

[Narkissos]

In total agreement with a lot of the tips above. Keeping the knees bent is rule #1 for me and always has been. IMHO, many people suffer from poor calf development as they just do not put in the same intensity of effort that they do for other favored body parts. Yes, genetics play a part and I understand that, although I feel that hard work can overcome many flaws. Work them hard, heavy and with a decent pace. They'll grow or be damned!

Agreed/

[kalspic]

how big a part does rom play? i remember fireguy saying he uses lower weights and gets the full rom and slows them down. maybe that was for contest prep, i dont remember. could someone shed some light on this please

[gearbox]

Rom is always important. Not only are you working the muscle completely you are also helping it stay flexible. Do sets of heavy and light weight or no weight burn outs. I agree with slow. we are not bouncing up and down.
Most have to remember if your calfs did not pop out naturally then it will take some time and effort for the muscle to grow and expand. Think how long it takes to grow decent pectorals

[baseline_9]

how big a part does rom play? i remember fireguy saying he uses lower weights and gets the full rom and slows them down. maybe that was for contest prep, i dont remember. could someone shed some light on this please

Using full ROM is a basic priciple that we should all adopt from day one in training everything.... Training a muscle through a full ROM is pretty basic stuff and should remain a fundamental part of ones training...

There are some instances where shortening the ROM of an exercise can actually increase the muscular stimulation and you will see lots of pro's performing three quarter movements to keep tension on the target muscle..... I do not actually follow this principle, I prefer full ROM for almost everything TBH


The only thing u can do is try full ROM for 6 months and see how u respond