Doran Yates Workout.. does this seem right?

[mustang331]

Im in the process of adjusting my workout schedule.. Im halfway through my cycle and my recovery is great, which got my interest in other shcedules and such..


That being said, I saw a lot of talk about Doran Yates workout schedule.. Many people swear by it.. His concept of low reps and failure is basically what I do.. I don't do the exact exercises but whats strange to me.. Is it seems he doesn't do that much at all.. Below is what he recommends for chest and from what Im counting its only 7 sets for chest.. including warmups..

I understand his "explosive" methods and the little rest inbetween.. I don't do all that, but it just seems... I don't know.. Easy? It seems like it wouldn't be enough?


Tell me what you all think?



Decline Bench Press:
2 warm up sets of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure


Incline Dumbbell Press (45 degree incline):
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,


Flat Bench Dumbbell Flyes:
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,

5 min rest

Dumbbell Concentration Curl:
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,


Straight Bar Curl:
1 set of 6-8 reps to failure, desired weight

[lifter65]

whered you get his workout?

[stpete]

Must be typo...

[mustang331]

Must be typo...

NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

No links pls, edit

This seems to be very popular amongst Bdoy Builders..

Seriously.. I could do this workout in 20 minutes.. Maybe less..

Its said that Doran Yates trained an average of 3 hours a week.. 3 hours A WEEK!!!

How is this possible, lol

[D7M]

I could be wrong, I really don't know much about his training methods, but it looks like a form of a HIT.

When I do HIT I'm in and out of the gym in 30-40 min tops.

[stpete]

Well it simply isn't true. This is one reason i quit reading magazines such as Flex about 15 years ago. But actually, it was because the workouts they had posted from various BB's were just plain stupid in length and variations. No normal human could possibly come close to their workouts.
But i have to say, this is weird. I can tell you with 100% certainty that he did a hell of a lot more than that. And, they often workout twice a day. Wonder why he'd allow them to publish that nonsense....

[Walnutz]

His training is a form of HIT. He followed the philosophy of Mike Mentzer. Less is more. Do a set until failure and go beyond with rest and pause or forced reps. I do incorporate some of this but not on certain exercises like squat or deadlifts.

[mustang331]

Well it simply isn't true. This is one reason i quit reading magazines such as Flex about 15 years ago. But actually, it was because the workouts they had posted from various BB's were just plain stupid in length and variations. No normal human could possibly come close to their workouts.
But i have to say, this is weird. I can tell you with 100% certainty that he did a hell of a lot more than that. And, they often workout twice a day. Wonder why he'd allow them to publish that nonsense....

Pretty sure this is pretty wide known.. Not just some magazine.. Actually, I don't see anything for sale..

It is a form a High Intensity.. Im sure he did train differently, but as walnutz said, he believes in the philosophy of Mike Mentzer..

What I really want to know.. Does ANYONE do this? While on gear?
As I said.. I currently do something very similar to this, only I do 2 warmups, 1 med, 2 HEAVY sets..
I also do more exercises and rest much longer inbetween..

but I'll be honest.. If Doran Yates was to stand in front of me.. Which would cast a shadow over the entire State of Florida as well, he would tell me NOT to do what Im doing, because he would be thinking Im doing WAAYY to much.. would anyone really argue with him?

So.. Thats why Im asking.. Everything I read tells me to pull back a little.... This is not some fancy magazine.. Many many guys are doing a form of HIT workouts and GROWING from it..

[baseline_9]

Yates is a believer in HIT training and also pre-exhaust's....

If done correctly with multiple exercises per bodypart it will be effective...


His workouts rely on intensity and progressive weights, something that I rarely see in the gym!


Its simple guys, go into the gym and in the shortest period of time stress a muscle as much as you can.... If you have stressed it enough it will be forced to adapt and grow to support the overload..... The following week you must then go in a be progressive to force the adaption again..... Progressive Tension Overload (adding more weight is an easy way)...

Adding small weights is the way forward, no need to mix and match movements, keep your training basic, heavy, intense and to the point. But add weight each week....


You can buy 0.25kg olympic plate on ebay for cheap.... get a set and throw them in your gym bag. Each week add one to each end of the bar on your big core lifts (bench, dead, squat, press, row).... Blast like this for 8-12 weeks, only de-loading for 3-4 weeks when you plateau... then blast again

[lifter65]

if this is from a magazine-its total bull
if it isnt and its legitimately his routine(which i doubt) only the genetically elite and chemically enhanced will be able to get results from it
ive seen many people use HIT praising it because it just made so much sense, only to be let down in the end
many strength coaches totally bash on HIT because theyve tested it and found 9/10 times it will yield results for a very short time but then stall and regress

[Black]

Whether they work for some or not, everyone is different. Did Yates perform that routine? Who knows, but either way, this isn't a routine that anyone would use year round. Not to mention, in his workout DVD, he did WAY more sets & exercises.

I ran a HIT (Heavy Duty) routine for several weeks. Sure I made strength gains, but with such little work (sets), where else you gonna use that energy. Plus, speaking of energy output, if I ever do it again, I will definitely add more cardio or cut calories back, as I tend to put on some fat last time, no matter how "intense" I worked.

To each their own.

[terraj]

Im in the process of adjusting my workout schedule.. Im halfway through my cycle and my recovery is great, which got my interest in other shcedules and such..


That being said, I saw a lot of talk about Doran Yates workout schedule.. Many people swear by it.. His concept of low reps and failure is basically what I do.. I don't do the exact exercises but whats strange to me.. Is it seems he doesn't do that much at all.. Below is what he recommends for chest and from what Im counting its only 7 sets for chest.. including warmups..

I understand his "explosive" methods and the little rest inbetween.. I don't do all that, but it just seems... I don't know.. Easy? It seems like it wouldn't be enough?


Tell me what you all think?



Decline Bench Press:
2 warm up sets of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure


Incline Dumbbell Press (45 degree incline):
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,


Flat Bench Dumbbell Flyes:
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,

5 min rest

Dumbbell Concentration Curl:
1 warm up set of 10-12 reps,
1 working set of 6-8 reps to failure,


Straight Bar Curl:
1 set of 6-8 reps to failure, desired weight

I used the above workout for a long time and use something close now, thats I great workout if you can push yourself.

I don't know about the length of time per workout that DY had, but mine would run between 25-40 mins.
2 days on 1 day off

Baseline- No need for multiple exercises per bodypart for this to be effective, not in each workout anyway...

You are right about progressive overload, this is key

[mustang331]

if this is from a magazine-its total bull
if it isnt and its legitimately his routine(which i doubt) only the genetically elite and chemically enhanced will be able to get results from it
ive seen many people use HIT praising it because it just made so much sense, only to be let down in the end
many strength coaches totally bash on HIT because theyve tested it and found 9/10 times it will yield results for a very short time but then stall and regress

This was for Body Building.. Which is what he explained exactly in the beginning.. its NOT for strength (Although you will obviously get stronger) or Power Lifting..

Its NOT from a magazine.. And BTW I don't know what your routine is... But Im willing to BET anything, that at one time or another, it was in some magazine before.. A variation of it..

As I said before.. when I try to increase in size and blast my workouts, I always go to failure.. This reason Im bringing this up, is because I do a lot more than what he is saying to do.. Im doing 2 light sets, 1 med. set, 2 super heavy to failure sets.. Then I do the same for about 3-4 more exercises..

I don't do it fast and I do take nice breaks inbetween..

I've increased my weight in every single exercise since I started doing this routine and of course since I started my gear.. But, still.. I always increased, even if it was just 2.5lbs

I want to know if it would be better I focus more on the negatives (he says Negatives is what actually tears the muscle fibers, not the explosion of lifting the weight) and do more of a HIT, speed and less rest, and less sets.. or just stick to doing 5 sets by 3-4 exercises, slowly..

Comments?

[terraj]

All HIT sytles are about progressive overload and low volume.... this is where the growth comes from.

From another site-

HIGH-INTENSITY HOW-TO

1 Be objective in analyzing which exercises are best for you. Some conventional movements might not be suited for your physique. In my case, it was squats. After many years of being faithful to them, I realized that the relative lengths of my bodyparts restricted the range of motion for squats. When I switched to the leg press, I made much faster gains in quad size and sweep.

2 Controlling the contraction of the muscle throughout the entire range of motion, as opposed to lifting as much weight as you can, is even more important for high-intensity training than in standard bodybuilding, because the purpose of high-intensity training is to take a muscle so far beyond total fatigue that it will not be able to fire for a repeat set. Merely lifting maximum weight only fatigues your coordinated body strength, without fully fatiguing the intended muscle.

3 In each workout, use every technique you know to fatigue the muscle further than the last time. Try for one more rep than in your previous workout, then follow with forced reps, negatives, partials, ad infinitum, until you have to be carried to your car.

4 Continuously try to reduce your volume (sets and reps) by increasing your intensity. You ll notice that I used only two warm-up sets for my heaviest compound exercises (except for chest, which got three).

[baseline_9]

I used the above workout for a long time and use something close now, thats I great workout if you can push yourself.

I don't know about the length of time per workout that DY had, but mine would run between 25-40 mins.
2 days on 1 day off

Baseline- No need for multiple exercises per bodypart for this to be effective, not in each workout anyway...

You are right about progressive overload, this is key

As for the multiple exercises, that's just something I like to do if I'm doing HIT once per week (per bodypart)

For chest I may do, flat bench 1 failure set... 1 beyond failure, incline bench 1'feel set...1 beyond failure, crossovers one feel... One beyond failure...

Multiple for me is not a lot LOL... I often just do 2 exercises per bodypart

[baseline_9]

Something worth pointin out is that the people who knock HIT are probably not doing real HIT...

HIT is not nice! Not for the masses.... But if you do it right I believe it is one of, if not the best training style....

I love pre-exhausts as well... Killer!

[IBdmfkr]

bump to this,

I'm currently following a self written HIIT routine generated from Mentzer's style of teaching and so far seeing excellent results.

I train every 96 hours (4th day) and sometimes take an additional day off if needed for recovery.

Anyone who has tried HIIT training and not seen results is quite simply either:

Not pushing themselves to complete and utter failure on each set (you don't have the heart for this type of training or a strong enough mind)
Not letting their system recover long enough between workouts (usually because of lack of faith in trying something new)
You have poor genetics and/or your diet/sleep is not up to par which doesn't enable your body the required nutrients or rest to heal itself
You do not log your routines each and every time to force yourself to progressively lift either more weight or do an additional rep each workout!

My current stats are as follows: 31 yrs old, 5'9", 212 lbs, approx 8% BF.

An example of a current chest routine which lasts approx 28-33 minutes from first warm-up.
W-up DB chest presses (80x6-8reps)
Pec Dec 1 set to absolute failure (220x10) immediately followed by DB presses (no rest inbetween, maybe 10 seconds max) (125x6-10reps)

No rest unless to recover enough to catch breath,
Seated calf raises 3 plates (12-20 reps) My tempo for 1 rep is 1sec up, 2 sec static hold on contraction and 3-5 sec negative w/2sec stretch.

Wup Smith seated shoulder press 135x6-10
Lateral DB raises 40-45 lbs x 6-10 until failure immediately into Smith seated presses 225x6-10 until shoulders fail with spot.

Standing Calves same fashion 1 set only to failure

1 Set Tricep cable pressdowns or seated overhead extensions to absolute failure 6-10 reps then forced negatives until my arms fail to exist.


That's 5 total sets lasting no longer than 35-40 minutes at the Very most, ideally I try to complete around the 30 min mark, I feel so sick after this routine that I usually have to take 5 minutes to sit and let my nervous system recover/catch my breath before leaving the gym.

For those of you who can't fathom this routine could work then you haven't ever pushed yourself past your limit, it isn't for the weak-minded or unmotivated.
Stick with your volume training and 12-20 set routines as I did in my early 20's before I pursued a HIIT style of training.
I also took 3 years off and recently started training again the past 12 months. I was 226lbs 12% when I stopped, dropped to 195 10% over that course of time with just maintenance routines lifting every week or two without much purpose as I competed back in 2006, got divorced in 08 and burnt out.

Haven't posted in probably a year or two here, figured I'd share with some of you new comers and maybe bump into a few old vets on here

[rv8]

Go to YouTube and type in Dorian Yates and you will find videos of him training someone just like he trains. He uses HIT just like I have for many years.

I am 5'10" 260 BF 13-14% approx. I know this because I have done the water buoyancy test many times at a local university. I am not lean but not fat either. Chest 53.5, shoulders 59, arms 18", legs 29.5, calves 17.5 waist 36. I have been back in the gym since feb 28 of this year. Prior to that I was out for about 7 years. I consider myself a gym rat, I don't live for the gym. I haven't done dead lifts nor squats in at least 8 years or so. I don't max out much either. I train for fun and to challenge myself.

My current routine would be something like this. LEGS warm up on the leg sled with about 3 sets progressively heavier each time. Then load the sled with 1300 pounds and go to failure, about 7-8 reps then add a couple reps past failure. Immediately, with NO rest, followed by leg ext with 250 pounds to failure which was 10 reps plus a couple past failure, immediately drop to 220 to failure then drop to 180 to failure. Catch breath and do seated leg curls. 110 to failure plus 2, drop to 90 to failure then 70 to failure DONE! With the exception of calves legs are done. I do 2 drop sets in the same fashion for calves. CHEST: do 2 warm up sets on the LIFE FIT decline machine then load it with six 45 pound plates go to failure then strip a plate go to failure then strip another plate and go to failure. Rest then do cable flyers in same fashion DONE! DELTS: military press, do 3 warm up sets then load 225 and go to failure which was 8 reps, strip to 195 go to failure, strip to 165 to failure. Rest then do DB side laterals or cable side laterals in the same fashion, DELTS are done. I only do one set like this for biceps and triceps because they get blasted while working back and chest and delts. I only train two days a week and each muscle group once a week.

I have used this training to bench 425, not my strong point, squat 550 for 8-10 reps and dead lift more than 650 for 6-8 reps with no juice, natural. In fact my first and only cycle was in 1986. I used these weights more than 10 years after that cycle so I would say I was clean. I weighed 230 at the time with a body fat % of 10%. Again my job required tests so I know what my body composition was. I was also drug tested for everything including juice. I was also friends with a guy at the gym who was ranked third in the country for natural power lifters. After seeing me lift and my poundages on the three lifts he kept trying to get me to compete. I was to busy, job would not allow it.

I have ALWAYS since the first day I started working out kept I training log, if you don't you are wasting your time. Getting bigger and stronger is about double progression. Meaning you either do more reps the next week or after reaching your upper rep range you add weight. There is no way in 40 hells you can remember everything you did the week before. This will carry you to your genetic potential.

When I first started training I did the same thing most people do and followed the crowd doing 2 hour workouts with high volume high set routines wasting time and effort and more wear and tear on the body. Then a BIG friend introduced me to Mike Mentzer. I still have a copy of Mikes first book and spoke with him several times. Mike learned from Arthur Jones about HIT and proceeded with the scientific approach to body building, just as Jones did with the assistance of Ellington Darden who holds a PH.D in exercise physiology.

You can not train like I do for 2 hours, it will not happen. The pain would not be tolerable and you will not have the energy to do so. If you don't believe it go to YouTube and watch Dorian train Ronnie Coleman on legs. Watch how brief it is and then watch him about puke and fall out on the ground in the parking lot saying how he can't take it. That is what high intensity means. With this type of training you can only take so much, you only need very few sets, you tear the fibers without eating into your bodies ability to recover by wasting energy on volume training.

For arguments sake lets say you can get just as big with either HIT or high volume training, then in my mind HIT wins solely on brevity, efficiency. You will find that when you are older, I am pushing 50, that you have less time for the gym. The good news is you can get just as strong and big in 30-45 min as you can in 2 hours with half the trips to the gym.

I know some may want photos but I can't do that because I have let's say, identifying marks and TOO much to lose.

[Far from massive]

Curious, about HIT and injuries, I used to use HIT in my training. I also had a lot of injuries and now use a more conventional technique, not really a ton of volume somewhere in between. For chest I will do incline two sets of warmup, then a set with enough wieght to push 20 reps but I will only do 15 then up the wieght to where I could do 15 and do 13 or so leaving 1-2 in the hole. Then on to decline and flat on both I do two sets with no warmup both just like in incline. I will also do some fies two sets and then dumbell presses both exercizes with enough wieght to do 20 reps and do 18 I do these sets for definition.

The reason I leave a couple of sets in the whole is to protect against injury by preserving form, since I juice pretty heavy so and am fairly new so far this routine has been adequate to cause enough stress to promote good growth without injury, I am 57 and my general pain/injury level is much better than it was with HIT a couple of years ago.

Of course that's just me I thought I would throw it out there in case there were any other juice head, old fvkrs looking to avoid injuries.

[rv8]

One thing I forgot to mention is I use VERY strict form. This will help prevent injuries. I don't always count the rep time on the positive and negative phase but I did at one time. It would take about 3-4 seconds per rep. After a while you learn the speed and perform it naturally. This STOPS ALL momentum which forces the muscle to do the work. I work thru the full rep range as well. Concentrate on the NEGATIVE portion, you are strongest in the negative phase and it does more damage to the muscle fibers. Study's have proven this. Make sure you are warmed up well, especially on shoulders. I'll do 2-3 warmup sets on chest, back and delts. Triceps and biceps maybe one sometimes, because i work them with chest and back so they are generally warm already. You dont always have to do a full 10 reps on warm up sets. You can do 10 on the first one, maybe 8 on the second one then 4 or 5 on the third just getting ready for the HEAVY working set. I do a couple extra warmup sets for legs doing maybe 3 reps per set because i am using 1300 plus and rising on the sled. The key is to be warm without cutting into your capacity to perform with a maximum amount of weight on your working sets. ALWAYS use good form! My wife has better form than 95% of the men in the gym. She is 48 and has the body that most 28 year old girls would die for. She trains JUST like me, she is my training partner! So is Dorian on the right track, in my opinion, yes.

Do yourself a favore and learn the science behind what, in scientific terms, causes a muscle fiber grow. Not a workout routine but the chemical reason and the physiological reason a muscle fiber grows.

[IBdmfkr]

Very nice info RV8 and right on the money.

It's a shame more people don't realize the potential of what you're saying and take the time to actually try it for themselves.

I'll never go back to any other form of training and I too train my girlfriend in this fashion with excellent results. I do a 6-10 rep range for myself and I have her do a 12-20 rep range.