Learn how to train - High Intesnity Training

**crazy mike** · 02-27-2013, 06:23 AM

Wow, I just came to this thread and the video's...how cool. I'm going to see how I can input the info that I'm not using. I'm a strict one on form. The timing between sets thing I've never done. Great thread, thanks from ....crazy mike

**crazy mike** · 02-27-2013, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

Still using it. Very effective.

Have you seen quicker results ? ...cm

**largerthannormal** · 02-27-2013, 11:10 AM

These made me soar just watching them.....

If any body knows of one of his videos or anything that could help me answer a few questions:

1) does he avoid normal back squats? ( maybe i missed it or he incorporates it on another day or just plain doesn't use it as he gets what he needs from the exercises shown)
2) Any specific reason he skips flat bench?( maybe he does this on another day? or just not important?)
3) do most of you agree decline is best for chest? ( for years i have ben taught incline is the best and decline is useless unless shaping is in need)
4) deadlifts? i seen straight legs
5) Is his part one and part 2 leg day is that all in one day? or an AM and PM deal?
6) wish he said what days were what.

Over all it seems he misses the three big lifts. is this common for body builders? Maybe the thre big lifts are to establish a base and once a base is established they only fine tune to a sense?

**smeeto** · 02-27-2013, 02:41 PM

thanks for posting this, I have always stuck to a high intensity training general philosophy but this really elaborated on a few things making them more clear to me.

**Papiriqui** · 02-28-2013, 12:59 PM

WoW great vids!!! Thanks for the share M. I got a pump from just looking at this videos LOL......

**Blackmambar** · 03-01-2013, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

2 warm up sets and one working set is all whats needed, some do 2 working sets but once you have worked the muscle to failure and beyond by using max weight+forced+negs etc there is nothing more whats needed. All tjose ests and reps are being wasted incorporate them into one/two working sets and your done

Is this really true?
I'm always skeptical when I hear this sort of stuff...
Have you personally tried both methods and noticed no differences in gains?

**cj111** · 03-01-2013, 05:42 PM

Tried the shoulder/tris today...
I think knowing in your head your only doing 1 working set, you really have to make it count, so you just giver .... I loved it, might try the other work outs also

**Blackmambar** · 03-02-2013, 04:07 AM

I've got all the programs written down, I'm definitely going to give it a proper go.

**marcus300** · 03-02-2013, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Blackmambar

Is this really true?
I'm always skeptical when I hear this sort of stuff...
Have you personally tried both methods and noticed no differences in gains?

yes its the way forward if your in a hole, one/two working sets and if done correctly what else would you want to do............

**Blackmambar** · 03-02-2013, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

yes its the way forward if your in a hole, one/two working sets and if done correctly what else would you want to do............

I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...

Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?

Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?

**dan991** · 03-03-2013, 11:40 AM

I've been doing similar types of work outs. I only work out two days a week. Upper body is Mon and lower body Thurs. In and out of the gym within 45 min both days. Been doing it for about 6 years. I can post my full routine if anyone wants it. After some research, I found this interesting medical write up about "muscle confusion" which is more or less never doing the same routine over and over. Kinda like if you do lat pull downs one week you don't do them again for a month and do alternate lat exercises instead the following week. It caused explosive growth for me. It also showed why doing "group" exercises were more beneficial for growth as you really can't do a true isolation exercise for just one muscle anyways. It was really interesting and I spent a month building a routine so I hit literally every muscle in one day with HIIT type routine that is ordered in a way that you are essentially moving through muscle groups. Kinda hard to explain but it works so...

**marcus300** · 03-03-2013, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Blackmambar

I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...

Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?

Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?

Thats because you didnt train right. Your suppose to go to total failure on your working set, thats means no matter what you cant do another rep and your down to doing half and quarter reps. You dont no how to go to train to failure, once you learn this you can then try and train beyonbd failure by using the forced and negs because when doing forced and negs you do the exact thing you go to total failure... Check my thread out in the lounge if you want to fully understand how to train to failure and beyond

**marcus300** · 03-03-2013, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Blackmambar

I just did the chest and bi one now... ugh, I dunno I don't feel like I got as good a pump/workout as I normally do when training 3 heavy sets instead with proper rest in between each...

Maybe I gave up to quick on the working set as I am not used to it?

Does anyone else have any experience with this workout method that could share there opinion?

The read whole thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rcus-s-Diary**

**Blackmambar** · 03-04-2013, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by dan68131

I've been doing similar types of work outs. I only work out two days a week. Upper body is Mon and lower body Thurs. In and out of the gym within 45 min both days. Been doing it for about 6 years. I can post my full routine if anyone wants it. After some research, I found this interesting medical write up about "muscle confusion" which is more or less never doing the same routine over and over. Kinda like if you do lat pull downs one week you don't do them again for a month and do alternate lat exercises instead the following week. It caused explosive growth for me. It also showed why doing "group" exercises were more beneficial for growth as you really can't do a true isolation exercise for just one muscle anyways. It was really interesting and I spent a month building a routine so I hit literally every muscle in one day with HIIT type routine that is ordered in a way that you are essentially moving through muscle groups. Kinda hard to explain but it works so...

Yes id like a copy/link please!

**Blackmambar** · 03-04-2013, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Thats because you didnt train right. Your suppose to go to total failure on your working set, thats means no matter what you cant do another rep and your down to doing half and quarter reps. You dont no how to go to train to failure, once you learn this you can then try and train beyonbd failure by using the forced and negs because when doing forced and negs you do the exact thing you go to total failure... Check my thread out in the lounge if you want to fully understand how to train to failure and beyond

I understand what your saying...

Though the workout does say train 6-8 reps on the working set so I mean that's what I'm doing and getting to failure... are you saying I should do 6-8 then squeeze out the extra 1/2 sets and 1/4 sets or whats ever it takes to squeeze out extra reps on top?
Wouldn't that set my rep range to high and just burn out the muscle?

I'll give the link you posted a read. Thanks for that.

**marcus300** · 03-04-2013, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Blackmambar

I understand what your saying...

Though the workout does say train 6-8 reps on the working set so I mean that's what I'm doing and getting to failure... are you saying I should do 6-8 then squeeze out the extra 1/2 sets and 1/4 sets or whats ever it takes to squeeze out extra reps on top?
Wouldn't that set my rep range to high and just burn out the muscle?

I'll give the link you posted a read. Thanks for that.

when it says go to failure on the 6-8 rep that what it means, at the 6th rep you get another 2 out and push yourself to complete failure. Failure means you cant do anther rep even if someone had a gun to your head, then you do 2 forced reps which will kill you and all your positive strength will go then you do 2 negs and if you have used enough weight and you truely have gone to failure and then you have gone past failure by doing forced and negs then your muscle cant be worked anymore, if you think it can your not training right.....the videos show you how to do it my thread tells you how to do it but in the end its all down to you and how much intensity you give to your workouts, its down to you.....if you cant train more after doing one of these sets your aren't training hard or intense enough...watch and read

**austinite** · 03-04-2013, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

when it says go to failure on the 6-8 rep that what it means, at the 6th rep you get another 2 out and push yourself to complete failure. Failure means you cant do anther rep even if someone had a gun to your head, then you do 2 forced reps which will kill you and all your positive strength will go then you do 2 negs and if you have used enough weight and you truely have gone to failure and then you have gone past failure by doing forced and negs then your muscle cant be worked anymore, if you think it can your not training right.....the videos show you how to do it my thread tells you how to do it but in the end its all down to you and how much intensity you give to your workouts, its down to you.....if you cant train more after doing one of these sets your aren't training hard or intense enough...watch and read

I wouldn't want that spotter!

**marcus300** · 03-04-2013, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

I wouldn't want that spotter!

I know imagen an off day

**Blackmambar** · 03-04-2013, 02:37 AM

Got it. Will give it another go!

**marcus300** · 03-04-2013, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Blackmambar

Got it. Will give it another go!

Read my thread it will give you an idea how to train....failure means failure - learn how to get to failue then learn how to go beyond failure and then you will have a great tool to get big with

**bdos** · 03-04-2013, 05:02 AM

I got these vids a while ago always watch them before i go to the gym, always walk out sore!

**Buster Brown** · 03-04-2013, 09:19 AM

These are definitely the new cornerstones in my training routine.

**marcus300** · 03-06-2013, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

These are definitely the new cornerstones in my training routine.

Have you made improvements since training this way?

**marcus300** · 04-24-2013, 02:35 AM

bump

**oatmeal69** · 04-24-2013, 07:38 AM

Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again.
By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it.

Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets.
Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.

**tigerspawn** · 04-24-2013, 11:14 PM

Thanks Marcus thanks for the links and the very informative thread.

**marcus300** · 04-25-2013, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by oatmeal69

Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again.
By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it.

Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets.
Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.

Well done and try and keep it up and see if you build any more muscle over the next few months. Will be interesting to see if your body responds to the intensity of this kind of training....Let me know

**oatmeal69** · 04-25-2013, 09:03 AM

I can already point to positive growth in my shoulders from, like, 3 sessions. I'll be ECSTATIC if it starts happening with my chest too, that thing's been stuck for years. Will keep you posted.

**oatmeal69** · 04-28-2013, 08:54 AM

Marcus -
So, remember the chest workout I did Monday? My chest is STILL sore today, 6 days later! Unprecedented! I almost don't want to train it again tomorrow because it's not healed yet. I've NEVER experienced a length of healing time like that while on cycle except with legs.
I would almost swear I see new growth as well - just from ONE workout.
So, Another observation and question.
I did HIT with my arms on Friday - and still feeling it today. BUT, I really only did one exercise per muscle that really hit with intensity. The other two I just didn't have anything left to train hard.
Example. I started with machine skull crushers. after just one set of VERY light warm-up, I went straight for what would be close to my max weight. I got perhaps 4 reps and then drop-set down like I've been doing for a total of about 12 reps. I did this for 3 sets with about a minute rest. Like I've been saying, I was about to cry! People look at me funny because the signs of pain are obvious.

The rest of my tricep workout was lackadaisical. I just didn't feel like I had anything left to train hard with on other exercises. My point and question is that if I'm hitting a muscle so hard and going beyond failure on one exercise, is that enough? It seems like it would be - or do I need to keep training to get a complete workout? If I could do this, I could greatly reduce time spent, and maybe even train more than one muscle group in a day and thus rest more. Thoughts?

**slfmade** · 04-28-2013, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by oatmeal69

Was playing with ideas while training my tiny chest on Monday. I've always done traditional bench press, inclines, declines and flies. But, it's always been the usual warm-up set, and 3 to fail in the 6-10 rep range.
SO, Monday I got on a machine bench press and did this HIT protocol. I did a warm up and then a set of about 6 or so to fail. Then I drop-set down a couple times to bring my total reps to about 14. It's so intense I can't control the urge to groan in agony. Kept the rest to about 45 seconds and did it again.
By the time I was done, I couldn't even train the declines, flies and inclines I usually do with anything close to the weight I use. Today my pecs are on fire, and feel TIRED, even my shoulders and tri's are feeling it.

Same thing with shoulders. Last week I only did one exercise - presses. But again it was on the machine, drop set style, beyond failure, less than a minute rest. I was about to cry! I got more soreness and fatigue than I have by doing my 'usual' shoulder routine consisting of several exercises and way more sets.
Thanks for this Marcus, I really think you've helped this "hard-gainer" find a new way to add muscle.

Maybe throw some rest-pause in there too. I couldn't imagine a HIT session without rest-pause. It's my favorite. If working without a spotter I love....

Warm Up Set
Drop Set
Rest Pause x 3
and done

**slfmade** · 04-28-2013, 06:28 PM

Marcus - What's your opinion of Layne Nortons PHAT vs HIT? I've trained HIT before (natty) and loved it, but to hear many people talk...Volume training; especially when used in a power/hypertrophy split, is really the way to go. Normally I would just give it a shot and see hich I like better, but I just started my first cycle and don't wanta waste it on something thats not the best/most efficient way of training.

**oatmeal69** · 04-28-2013, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by slfmade

Maybe throw some rest-pause in there too. I couldn't imagine a HIT session without rest-pause.

On the last of my drop sets, I will usually try to do rest pause, or partial reps. By then I'm ready to scream, it's really hard!

**slfmade** · 04-28-2013, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by oatmeal69

On the last of my drop sets, I will usually try to do rest pause, or partial reps. By then I'm ready to scream, it's really hard!

Are you trying to do dropsets on every movement?

**marcus300** · 04-28-2013, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by slfmade

Marcus - What's your opinion of Layne Nortons PHAT vs HIT? I've trained HIT before (natty) and loved it, but to hear many people talk...Volume training; especially when used in a power/hypertrophy split, is really the way to go. Normally I would just give it a shot and see hich I like better, but I just started my first cycle and don't wanta waste it on something thats not the best/most efficient way of training.

I think your always better trying different routines to see what works for you, we are not all built and respond the same so trying various programmes will help you judge which one works best for you. For me personally I know what works best because I've tried loads of different routines and wasted many years on some bizarre ones what just turn out to be just some guy trying to reinvent the wheel. I've been training for around 28 years and for me there is only one way what builds muscle like nothing else I've ever tried and that's HIT or my variation of HIT. I was fascinated by guys like Mentzer and Yates and how thick set and huge these were to other bodybuilders and when you study how they train it makes perfect sense why the body responds so well with such heavy intense training. Every year you hear of some magical routine what's suppose to be the best way to build muscle but why try and reinvent the wheel when we already have something what works and has been proven over the years.

Not taking anything away from Layne because I've learnt loads from reading some of his articles but he is a natural bodybulder which is always in the back of my mind when reading his stuff. His PHAT is nothing new he just puts his own little variation on volume training and it does work for many and that's why you should try it and see if you respond well to it. I've tried that many there is only HIT for me but its not easy with all my aches and pains form lifting so intense all these yrs. Your body always adapts to routines so swapping and changing is a good thing but for building solid muscle and maintenance its HIT all the way for me.

**oatmeal69** · 04-29-2013, 09:06 AM

Marcus,
Could you check post #69 - last paragraph? What do you think?

**marcus300** · 04-29-2013, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by oatmeal69

Marcus -
So, remember the chest workout I did Monday? My chest is STILL sore today, 6 days later! Unprecedented! I almost don't want to train it again tomorrow because it's not healed yet. I've NEVER experienced a length of healing time like that while on cycle except with legs.
I would almost swear I see new growth as well - just from ONE workout.
So, Another observation and question.
I did HIT with my arms on Friday - and still feeling it today. BUT, I really only did one exercise per muscle that really hit with intensity. The other two I just didn't have anything left to train hard.
Example. I started with machine skull crushers. after just one set of VERY light warm-up, I went straight for what would be close to my max weight. I got perhaps 4 reps and then drop-set down like I've been doing for a total of about 12 reps. I did this for 3 sets with about a minute rest. Like I've been saying, I was about to cry! People look at me funny because the signs of pain are obvious.

The rest of my tricep workout was lackadaisical. I just didn't feel like I had anything left to train hard with on other exercises. My point and question is that if I'm hitting a muscle so hard and going beyond failure on one exercise, is that enough? It seems like it would be - or do I need to keep training to get a complete workout? If I could do this, I could greatly reduce time spent, and maybe even train more than one muscle group in a day and thus rest more. Thoughts?

Once you have recruited as many muscle fibres as possible and caused enough muscle damage trauma then the set is done, no need to over do it. Its all about short heavy intense workouts what put serious over load on the body so it grows. Normally you only need one or two working sets on each exercises and the job will be done.

**slfmade** · 04-29-2013, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I think your always better trying different routines to see what works for you, we are not all built and respond the same so trying various programmes will help you judge which one works best for you. For me personally I know what works best because I've tried loads of different routines and wasted many years on some bizarre ones what just turn out to be just some guy trying to reinvent the wheel. I've been training for around 28 years and for me there is only one way what builds muscle like nothing else I've ever tried and that's HIT or my variation of HIT. I was fascinated by guys like Mentzer and Yates and how thick set and huge these were to other bodybuilders and when you study how they train it makes perfect sense why the body responds so well with such heavy intense training. Every year you hear of some magical routine what's suppose to be the best way to build muscle but why try and reinvent the wheel when we already have something what works and has been proven over the years.

Not taking anything away from Layne because I've learnt loads from reading some of his articles but he is a natural bodybulder which is always in the back of my mind when reading his stuff. His PHAT is nothing new he just puts his own little variation on volume training and it does work for many and that's why you should try it and see if you respond well to it. I've tried that many there is only HIT for me but its not easy with all my aches and pains form lifting so intense all these yrs. Your body always adapts to routines so swapping and changing is a good thing but for building solid muscle and maintenance its HIT all the way for me.

Thanks Marcus. I decided to go with what I know and chose HIT for this cycle. I'll give the Norton program a try later on, but for my first cycle I figured I would go with something I know would work. Thanks for the help it made my decision easier.

**marcus300** · 04-29-2013, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by slfmade

Thanks Marcus. I decided to go with what I know and chose HIT for this cycle. I'll give the Norton program a try later on, but for my first cycle I figured I would go with something I know would work. Thanks for the help it made my decision easier.

Check out my thread in the lounge for more detailed workouts what explain how to go attack the body with HIT

**slfmade** · 04-29-2013, 08:43 PM

Would I be over doing it if I hit Chest twice a week? Do some HIT on Monday and then maybe some volume work on Thursday?

My chest has always progressed much slower than the rest of my body. Thought training twice a week might help, but I'm a little concerned about overtraining my CNS with a HIT and Volume session.

**oatmeal69** · 04-30-2013, 09:18 AM

I started HIT training on my chest last monday which is my normal chest day. I was sore even yesterday, a WEEK later, so I ended up doing legs instead. I will do chest today. AND I'm on cycle, which is unprecedented, usually my chest is sore for a day or two, three tops. My guess is that if you're doing this style of workout once a week is all you'll be able to do and still allow adequate time for recovery.