So.... you want abs....

[Armykid93]

Your too slow Armykid lol

That's what I was referring to. Probably should have cited 405 in my post though lol

[bigsiv]

That's what I was referring to. Probably should have cited 405 in my post though lol

Ha ha sorry bud didnt get that lol

[Twin]

Are you expected to breathe while holding/pushing your stomach in for stomach vacuum?

or are you supposed to get all the air out first before sucking in.

or breathe all your air outward as your suckin your stomach in only hold for a second or two?

i heard many different variations to the stomach vacuum. not sure which is the best way.

[Soar]

anyone else feel a little cramp in there abs when doing stomach vacuums when pushing the stomach in? i feel it in my right ab .

this is the same way i do my stomach vacuums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr1HLVPGUKA

That's smile was extremely creepy, I could feel him burning threw my phone screen Ito my soul. Must go try special 20 minute workout....

[dan991]

Are you expected to breathe while holding/pushing your stomach in for stomach vacuum?

or are you supposed to get all the air out first before sucking in.

or breathe all your air outward as your suckin your stomach in only hold for a second or two?

i heard many different variations to the stomach vacuum. not sure which is the best way.

I do a vacuum and hold it WHILE breathing. You shouldn't stop breathing because of vacuums. You should be feeling the same thing you would feel on your abs doing normal crunches. It can be difficult at first as well as feel weird (its something you've never done before) but you'll get there. You also can try just doing quick reps of sucking in and releasing. That may let you get more accustomed to the feeling before you attempt to hold the vacuum.

Don't worry if you can't suck in your stomach very far- comes with time. What you are looking for is the tension on your abdominal wall (reversed tension per se).

[GirlyGymRat]

This should be a sticky!

[Armykid93]

This should be a sticky!

Agreed

[Legion714]

this routine looks fantastic! im deff going to throw it in my cycle

[canesfan804]

My abs look more like the 1st pic( how they are non symetric) Will working them harder make them more symetrical? I have always wondered this but never asked. I fugured the placement was impossible to change. I have no been working them much at all for the last month and they are weak as hell now. Ill prob try this soon.

[dan991]

My abs look more like the 1st pic( how they are non symetric) Will working them harder make them more symetrical? I have always wondered this but never asked. I fugured the placement was impossible to change. I have no been working them much at all for the last month and they are weak as hell now. Ill prob try this soon.

yes- because you have only worked your outer abs. until you start working your inner abs; you won't ever get to pic #2. Easy way to explain it; if you only work biceps and never work triceps..... your arms will only get so big.

[canesfan804]

I always thought I was genetically deficient in the ab category. Figured God thought it wouldnt be fair to make me so good looking and have abs. JK. Funny thing is I only do inner ab exercises like leg lifts and Vs and such. Maybe I just need to do more.

[dan991]

I always thought I was genetically deficient in the ab category. Figured God thought it wouldnt be fair to make me so good looking and have abs. JK. Funny thing is I only do inner ab exercises like leg lifts and Vs and such. Maybe I just need to do more.

Leg lifts actually aren't an inner ab work out. The inner ab work outs are vacuum's, side leg lift, and wood chops. The reason the exercises are in the order they are in this specific routine is to pre-exhaust the outer ab muscles so they can't provide help to the inner ab muscles when they are struggling. If you look at the routine, it kinda looks like this for pre-exhaust:

Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure (WARM UP)
Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side) (INNER AB)
Hanging V: 1 x Failure (INNER AB)
Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Decline Bench Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (PRE-EXHAUST OBLIQUE)
Leg Cross Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (INNER OBLIQUE)

The reason for no rest between sets is to keep tension on the abdominal wall and then once your outer abs fail; internals will kick in more. The interesting part is that over time your body will train itself to not cheat as well as use the inner muscles more for the exercises. You should also be hitting failure on every single set otherwise you're just shorting yourself. By the time you get to hanging leg kicks- your outer abs should be on fire and those should have you cringing.

[Twin]

I do a vacuum and hold it WHILE breathing. You shouldn't stop breathing because of vacuums. You should be feeling the same thing you would feel on your abs doing normal crunches. It can be difficult at first as well as feel weird (its something you've never done before) but you'll get there. You also can try just doing quick reps of sucking in and releasing. That may let you get more accustomed to the feeling before you attempt to hold the vacuum.

Don't worry if you can't suck in your stomach very far- comes with time. What you are looking for is the tension on your abdominal wall (reversed tension per se).

thx bro

[DeadlyD]

Great info, gonna give it a go ! Thanks

[Times Roman]

I'm sorry mate. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree to a certain extent.

My son's friend doesn't work out, nor does he know anything about his diet. If you measure the thickness of the skin/fat that stretches over his abs, almost as thin as the skin that covers his arms. Me? I've got a layer, and have always had it, even back in my running days when I was really focused on diet and ran probably 50 to 70 miles a week.

I've never had visible abs. My sons friend has em and was born that way, more or less.

Isn't this more or less the "definition" of a genetic predisposition for a physical attribute?

[dan991]

I'm sorry mate. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree to a certain extent.

My son's friend doesn't work out, nor does he know anything about his diet. If you measure the thickness of the skin/fat that stretches over his abs, almost as thin as the skin that covers his arms. Me? I've got a layer, and have always had it, even back in my running days when I was really focused on diet and ran probably 50 to 70 miles a week.

I've never had visible abs. My sons friend has em and was born that way, more or less.

Isn't this more or less the "definition" of a genetic predisposition for a physical attribute?

As far as genetic predisposition... nope. If that were the case; I would have a pregnant hard beer belly look; like all the other males in my family and like my father has. Think Tony Soprano look. Skin thickness comes really comes into play if there is no actual routine or diet (son's friend). If he gained some body fat on his midsection- would he still have visible abs? How thick are his ab muscles?

As for your "layer" of ab; try the routine... post before and after pics.... You have nothing to lose....

[dan991]

This is an awesome read (the whole book), but more I less I summarized and gave the cliff notes in the first post: http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpt...anatomy-of-abs

[M302_Imola]

Leg lifts actually aren't an inner ab work out. The inner ab work outs are vacuum's, side leg lift, and wood chops. The reason the exercises are in the order they are in this specific routine is to pre-exhaust the outer ab muscles so they can't provide help to the inner ab muscles when they are struggling. If you look at the routine, it kinda looks like this for pre-exhaust:

Decline Bench Crunches: 1 x Failure (WARM UP)
Hanging Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Leg Kicks: 1 x Failure (OUTER PRE-EXHAUST)
Hanging Side Leg Lifts: 1 x Failure (each side) (INNER AB)
Hanging V: 1 x Failure (INNER AB)
Wood Chop High to Low: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Wood Chop Low to High: 1 x 50 (each side) (INNER AB)
Decline Bench Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (PRE-EXHAUST OBLIQUE)
Leg Cross Twist Crunch: 1 x Failure (INNER OBLIQUE)

The reason for no rest between sets is to keep tension on the abdominal wall and then once your outer abs fail; internals will kick in more. The interesting part is that over time your body will train itself to not cheat as well as use the inner muscles more for the exercises. You should also be hitting failure on every single set otherwise you're just shorting yourself. By the time you get to hanging leg kicks- your outer abs should be on fire and those should have you cringing.

I might just give this a try here in a month or so (I don't do ab exercises in the winter)! lol

[dan991]

I might just give this a try here in a month or so (I don't do ab exercises in the winter)! lol

You should be doing them year round, lol. Building muscle takes time and in order to have something to show off come summer; you need to build them now so they are there for the beach. LOL

[M302_Imola]

You should be doing them year round, lol. Building muscle takes time and in order to have something to show off come summer; you need to build them now so they are there for the beach. LOL

Lol, I agree with you but when time is of the essence and my main goal during the winter is to lean bulk abs get overshadowed. I do however do mostly compound lifts where my core is def being worked. Not sure if I'm a genetic freak or what but whenever I start to diet down for the spring/summer as well as do abs twice per week it normally only takes around 6 weeks for those puppies to start to shred up and poke out. None-the-less I'm sure if I was able to do them year round they would look even better!

[basketballfan22]

Hi dan68131,

I LOVE this thread. I have a few questions for you. I am trying to leanly bulk up to 200 pounds (I am currently at around 182); although I have a six-pack, I want a really deep six-pack. Would doing this routine hurt my bulking phase considering I have a very fast metabolism? I would also like to ask you about my current routine, and see if you thought this would be too much to add in addition to the day I do arms. I hope you don't mind my including some links to threads that I started. The most important one is my first one as that is a link to my new workout routine. The second link has a few pictures of where I am at with my body composition, but I don't know if that is important. I will copy and paste a "CliffsNotes" version at the bottom, so you don't have to bother reading the whole thread. If this is "stealing" your thread, then I will gladly edit it all out. Thanks.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...k#.UP7w3aWi1N0
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UP7xwaWi1N0
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...e#.UP7x0qWi1N0

Monday (chest): 3 new exercises every week
Tuesday (back): 3 new exercises every week
Wednesday (shoulders): 3 new exercises every week
Thursday (legs): 6 new exercises every week
Friday (arms/abs): 4 new arm exercises every week

Warmup set: 20 - 25 reps (~45% of my one rep max, I never "max out"; so I don't actually know this number, but I have a pretty good idea).
First set: 4 - 6 reps (the most weight I can lift to achieve this until failure).
Subsequent sets: drop weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I reach a weight where I can do more than 10 reps (despite my fatigue, the weight gets too easy).
Last sets: start to increase the weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I go back up to a weight where I can't do a single rep.

[dan991]

If your bulking; abs should still be part of your routine. There shouldn't be a separation of when you do abs as its no different than any other muscle.

Actually- I think you're spending way too much time in the gym even without the ab routine on the rest of it. If you look at just your arm day; you're doing 42 sets. That means you aren't hitting failure because if you were you'd be crying long before you got to 10 sets. "Failure" is defined as the point where your muscle cannot complete another rep no matter what you do outside of cheating. If you want to bulk (even lean bulk) you need to increase your weight to the point that on the 6-8th rep you cannot do it even on the first set after warm up. I'm looking at your full routine and I'm trying to figure out when your muscles have time to recover and grow. That's a whole different thread than abs though. I'll read your threads and respond in those threads accordingly.

[krugerr]

"Failure" is defined as the point where your muscle cannot complete another rep no matter what you do outside of cheating.

Momentary Muscle Failure.

Assisted, negative, once you can't even do this, once your muscle is at the point where it physically cannot move or even hold the weight. You have achieved failure. Don't just stop when it burns. Easier said than done though.

[dan991]

Okay- so now revisiting basketball's last post; you can always work abs and you should always work abs. What makes abs different is that most of the time they are neglected when it comes to the internal ab muscles. So, even bulking you will actually be adding muscles mass just from the inside out if that makes sense. It still adds to your weight and those muscles still need the nutrition to grow like every other muscle. I work abs year round, bulk or cut, same routine regardless. If your not hitting your internal abs which a lot of people don't, its kind of like working biceps but not triceps. One muscle can only grow so much and that limits how big your arms are. Same thing applies here. A majority of the routine posted is for internal abs because most don't work them directly and any work out those muscles is a secondary so they are weak.

[basketballfan22]

I am definitely going until I can't do another rep without cheating/having poor form. I should have added a disclaimer that in my workout routine thread, the new routine is added later on. I am no longer doing that many sets. I only put "3 new exercise every week" instead of listing the exercises. The reason my old workout routine was so long was I really wanted to develop every area of the muscle; but as what other members said in my thread, I wasn't working each area enough. Therefore it is better to just alternate new exercises each week and only focus on those specific areas. Here is an example of the first week on this new routine. Each exercise follows the regimen I included in my first post.

Monday (chest):
bench press
dumbbell flies
cable inclined

Tuesday (back):
deadlift
barbell bent over rows
lat pulldown

Wednesday (shoulders):
dumbbell overhead press
rear-delt machine
cable front raises

Thursday (legs):
squats
leg curl
lunges
leg extension
standing calf raises
seated calf raises

Friday (arms/abs):
barbell curls
preacher curls
skull crushers
tricep cable extension
declined situps
hanging leg raises
situps

[basketballfan22]

Warmup set: 20 - 25 reps (≈45% of my one rep max, I never "max out"; so I don't actually know this number, but I have a pretty good idea).
First set: 4 - 6 reps (the most weight I can lift to achieve this until failure).
Subsequent sets: drop weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I reach a weight where I can do more than 10 reps (despite my fatigue, the weight gets too easy).
Last sets: start to increase the weight by 10 - 15% lifting to failure each time until I go back up to a weight where I can't do a single rep.

As a reminder, here is how each set and rep works. I also give myself enough time to recover (≈45 - 75 seconds) in between sets.

[dan991]

Yea- I saw that after the fact. I didn't read the whole thread at first.

[dan991]

So.. I would just do your whole normal routine and then throw in this ab routine. Do the ab routine with no rest between sets and that saves you from doing any cardio at all. Just add the ab routine and be done for a bit so your body gets a chance to rest.

[basketballfan22]

Okay. Neglect the previous two posts then. I wrote them while you wrote the last post I guess. I was just worried that I would be working too much (like I was doing in my last routine) because of how hard you work your abs in your routine.

Thanks, and I apologize for any confusion.

[basketballfan22]

Yeah that is what I was hoping. I wasn't sure about cardio because I have such a fast metabolism; but by decreasing the length of my workout now, I was worried I would lose definition. I think this ab routine will "kill two bird with one stone" though. Thanks again.

[Edwin23q]

So.. I would just do your whole normal routine and then throw in this ab routine. Do the ab routine with no rest between sets and that saves you from doing any cardio at all. Just add the ab routine and be done for a bit so your body gets a chance to rest.

Not sure if its normal or what, but attempting the ab routine as you've described puts my abdomen in so much pain that I can't do any cardio. Not that I care about cardio, but is this expected and normal? I've only been doing your ab workout for 1 week.

Thanks Dan.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[dan991]

Not sure if its normal or what, but attempting the ab routine as you've described puts my abdomen in so much pain that I can't do any cardio. Not that I care about cardio, but is this expected and normal? I've only been doing your ab workout for 1 week.

Thanks Dan.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Define pain? Pain as in "injury" or pain as in muscle fatigue? Muscle fatigue yes, injury no.. not normal.

[dan991]

..........................

[Brick]

I've gotten a few PM's about pics so I'll post a couple up. Had to edit them so I can leave them up permanently (I have some pretty distinguishing tats) but here is one from beginning of December and one from end of October (red shorts). I'll add a lot more pics at the start of our competition we're doing in the lounge.

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132351"/> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132352"/>

Did you take these using your Atari camera?

[dan991]

Did you take these using your Atari camera?

No... I had to crop them from larger pics (full body pics taken from a distance) and focus in on my abs as well as make sure none of my tats are visible if I'm gonna leave them up for a long time. I've posted full body pics before but I take them down after a while because my tats are rather distinguishable.

[Edwin23q]

Define pain? Pain as in "injury" or pain as in muscle fatigue? Muscle fatigue yes, injury no.. not normal.

As in a sharp pain in my lower left and right hand side. It starts at 2 mins from the start of cardio and by 5 minutes I have to stop my cardio.
It's a soft but sharp pain that's gets worst the longer I'm doing cardio.
But as soon as I stop cardio, the pain goes away.
Strange right?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[dan991]

As in a sharp pain in my lower left and right hand side. It starts at 2 mins from the start of cardio and by 5 minutes I have to stop my cardio.
It's a soft but sharp pain that's gets worst the longer I'm doing cardio.
But as soon as I stop cardio, the pain goes away.
Strange right?

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

That's the first time I've heard that one and I don't think it has anything to do with the ab routine. It could be muscle exhaustion/lactic acid build up I guess if you're doing the cardio right after the ab routine. I guess it could be your obliques because depending on what type of cardio you are doing your internal obliques are responsible for twisting your upper body. I dunno... never experience it and I don't ever do cardio.

[Edwin23q]

That's the first time I've heard that one and I don't think it has anything to do with the ab routine. It could be muscle exhaustion/lactic acid build up I guess if you're doing the cardio right after the ab routine. I guess it could be your obliques because depending on what type of cardio you are doing your internal obliques are responsible for twisting your upper body. I dunno... never experience it and I don't ever do cardio.

Maybe because I do my abs everyday I'm not allowing time for repair, not sure but I might just drop my cardio.
I'm on my 2nd week of test and deca cycle, so I was told to do around 20 mins cardio with my workouts daily.

Thanks mate for the help.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[dan991]

Maybe because I do my abs everyday I'm not allowing time for repair, not sure but I might just drop my cardio.
I'm on my 2nd week of test and deca cycle, so I was told to do around 20 mins cardio with my workouts daily.

Thanks mate for the help.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Yea- don't work abs every day. One day a week and two times a week tops after doing them for a while with a few days rest in-between. Abs are just like every other muscle and they need recovery to grow.

[dan991]

Did you take these using your Atari camera?

Oh.. its your ass.... here... I'll show you what you're up against in the competition. Here's an off season pic for you to give you an idea of what you're up against. I'll take it down after a bit.... but I've gained about 15 lbs since that pic and it ain't fat.