Shoulders thread

[GeoBuilder]

I have a hard time building up my shoulders. I am really jealous of the guys who have round shoulders that standout. The lack of deltoids makes my arms look less shapely than they are. I am looking for tips on how to increase the size of my deltoids.

When I workout my delts I first start with chest (flat, incline, decline, flies) then shoulders (mil press, dumbbell lat raises, dumbbell bent raises) lastly tris (French press, tri press down , kickbacks)

[kelkel]

Well, we are all genetically different and can have bodyparts that respond quickly to stimulation and then some that are quite the opposite. First, when progress ends you should look to changing your routine. IMO for your case I'd think about altering your routine to one that starts with shoulders first to prioritize them.

There are really only a few ways to increase intensity. Either shorten rest periods and/or add weight plus options of negatives, drop sets, etc.

Honestly look at your intensity level. Are you putting everything you have into them?
Train heavy and brief yet as intense as possible. It's not how much you do...
Change your exercises and the pattern that you do them. Meaning you don't always need to start with pressing.
Try different exercises. Maybe something like single arm dumbell upright rows. A favorite of mine. Google it.
Analyze your form so that you "feel" the exercise. I had trouble for years with feeling lateral raises.

Most of all as I'm sure you know, nutrition is everything...

[GeoBuilder]

Thanks! I will give switching it up a try (starting with shoulders) so I can lift a little heavier. I have only stayed away from that because I wasn't exactly sure about any problems what may arise from training secondary muscles (in relation to chest) first. I guess it just means I won't be throwing down my usual numbers when doing my chest after my shoulders?

I'm going to mix it up for a couple months and see what happens.

[kelkel]

I would not do chest after shoulders. I was thinking more in line of maybe shoulders combined with another smaller bodypart. I prefer training back and shoulders as I've found that back work warms them up but does not tire them out. I've had less aches and pains that way, at least for me. What you combine is your call, just do it so it's beneficial to what bodypart you're training.

[stpete]

I was going to suggest the same as kelkel. Chest and delts together are tough. I prefer delts and arms. Chest and back would have their own days.

[MajorPectorial]

I like to dedicate a whole hard session to shoulders. Front to back. I.e reverse grip pres from chest. Continue the press excersise to hammer grip to press. To normal press from chest. And repeat with fly tactics etc etc. I also concentrate on putting as much explosive power from the onset of the movement. Even putting pressure on the way down to cause maximum strain n explode back out again. I have 3teaspoons coffee (atleast) I have to take one of my heart tabs with this. Personal physical heredited. With honey. Few mins pre workout. N if u ain't making an uncontrollable noise whilst powering through these u ain't workin hatd enough. Mentally prepare KNOWING u will lift heavier. Tense your whole body all of it. Then take ten huge gulps of air n pump that mutha like ur life depends on it.

Hope that helps.

[aiden_p]

Hey,
I too had pretty poor shoulder development until I saw a sports chiropractor. Most people actually use a lot more upper and mid trapezius when performing shoulder exercises rather then the deltoid. This is due to both muscles beach capable of extending and flexing the shoulder.

So.... Take a look at your posture, are your shoulders rolled forward and/or upper back rounded forward? If so, work with a fitness professional to fix that, poor posture makes it IMPOSSIBLE to effectively train your chest, shoulders and lats.

If your posture seems to be on alignment then look up lower trapezius activation. I remember perfectly my very first shoulder workout after having doing lower trapezius wall exercises for only 3 days; I simply could not complete any of my sets due to the intense burning in my shoulders. My lower traps were working (which they weren't before and aren't on 95% of the population), they were taking taking y upper traps out of th exercise and put all the tension on my shoulders, this lasted a few weeks until my shoulders got use to not having the traps pick up the slack.

Never train delts alone in a workout... Waste of a workout. Regarding actually training of the shoulders, I believe that delts should be trained as a priority and non priority muscle group. One week do a shoulder/bicep or shoulder/arms workout, this would obviously be in conjunction with a bodybuilding/hypertrophy style program for the entire week. The next week do an upper lower split, where you will do an upper body workout (training thr delts AFTER all chest and back exercises) and lower body workout repeating each workout twice in the week.

The shoulders will experience over the course of two weeks: being hit in a fresh state and being hit in an exhausted state. They will also experience variates in volume, where one week the shoulders are getting hit hard once in the week, and the following week the shoulders are getting hit multiple times with much more volume.

When I started doing this in combination with lower trap exercises, my shoulders exploded from a weakness to become my what I'd call my signature bodypart.


Hope this helps

[kelkel]

Very nice post Aiden.

[RescuesPitbulls]

Ok, I'm not as old as some of you guys or as a seasoned vet in the gym but i have learned quite a bit when it comes to Deltoid training.

What most people don't realize is that the posterior deltoid(rear) makes up the biggest portion of the deltoid muscle. Directly working the rear deltoid early in your shoulder workouts will add some beef to your delts. Another thing i've learned is the need to not go so heavy. I choose a rep range of 10 - 20, yes 10 - 20 when trying to gain size.

My most recent Shoulder workout looked like this...
Reverse Pec Deck - 4 Sets
Bent Over Dumbbell Rear Raise - 4 Sets
Dumbbell Lateral Raise Drop set each set - 4 sets
Seated Dumbbell Press - 3 sets

I know rear delt training isn't exactly the biggest ego booster, but your physique will thank you. Hope this helps.

[crazy mike]

There are three heads to your shoulders and then you have you upper and lower traps. One of my days is spent on just shoulders and traps. All the different theories and practices hold true for any muscle I work such as mixing the sequences up so getting a pre-fatigue in the different exercises, and the list goes on. But just the same as arms have the bicep and the triceps you train each one as hard and the triceps has its different heads so you hit it in different angles. I never had to do much with shoulders but my legs are a bitch. So goes my genetics so I train with that in mind and look constantly on symmetry. So look at a book and learn all you can on the different exercises for the different heads of the delts. Then you have traps to do the same. All other info and technique is general learning as to how to initiate more intensity as stpete said. The best book I’ve ever seen is Arnold’s Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. I recommend it to anyone. It will tell you allot of all what everyone is talking about. Good luck my friend. …crazy mike

[RescuesPitbulls]

There are three heads to your shoulders and then you have you upper and lower traps. One of my days is spent on just shoulders and traps. All the different theories and practices hold true for any muscle I work such as mixing the sequences up so getting a pre-fatigue in the different exercises, and the list goes on. But just the same as arms have the bicep and the triceps you train each one as hard and the triceps has its different heads so you hit it in different angles. I never had to do much with shoulders but my legs are a bitch. So goes my genetics so I train with that in mind and look constantly on symmetry. So look at a book and learn all you can on the different exercises for the different heads of the delts. Then you have traps to do the same. All other info and technique is general learning as to how to initiate more intensity as stpete said. The best book I’ve ever seen is Arnold’s Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. I recommend it to anyone. It will tell you allot of all what everyone is talking about. Good luck my friend. …crazy mike

Yea, that book is a great read. Some information is outdated but you can definitely benefit from reading through it.

[crazy mike]

Yea, that book is a great read. Some information is outdated but you can definitely benefit from reading through it.

Yep.The movements, the positioning of feet hands and other body parts to accomplish what you want to work hasn't changed. The pics of the exercise and the descriptions haven't changed. The diets and some other information has changed some what. But it remains , in my opinion a valuable reference book and good to teach and demonstrate how , what and why of the nuts and bolts of training. Hope that made sense. ...crazy mike

[Buster Brown]

Another thing to try is changing up the tempo that you train at. When I switched to HIT style training i shortened my rest periods to a minute which really amped up the intensity of the training and helped me out alot. try to incorperate drop sets, negatives, rest-pause. Check out Marcus's diary in the Ar lounge, excellent source for getting out of a training rut.

[crazy mike]

Another thing to try is changing up the tempo that you train at. When I switched to HIT style training i shortened my rest periods to a minute which really amped up the intensity of the training and helped me out alot. try to incorperate drop sets, negatives, rest-pause. Check out Marcus's diary in the Ar lounge, excellent source for getting out of a training rut.

I have always changed up and done hard a*s negative and wow, you can break out of a rut......crazy mike

[GeoBuilder]

Thanks Aiden! I feel like a dumba** for not looking at my posture. My shoulders tend to roll forward which explains a lot. I guess I should shell out a few $$ to get some pro advice at the gym. Would a shoulders forward poster add to lack of back development and exceptional growth of my chest? Now that you mentioned it I am thinking about other sticking points I am having

[GeoBuilder]

There are three heads to your shoulders and then you have you upper and lower traps. One of my days is spent on just shoulders and traps. All the different theories and practices hold true for any muscle I work such as mixing the sequences up so getting a pre-fatigue in the different exercises, and the list goes on. But just the same as arms have the bicep and the triceps you train each one as hard and the triceps has its different heads so you hit it in different angles. I never had to do much with shoulders but my legs are a bitch. So goes my genetics so I train with that in mind and look constantly on symmetry. So look at a book and learn all you can on the different exercises for the different heads of the delts. Then you have traps to do the same. All other info and technique is general learning as to how to initiate more intensity as stpete said. The best book I’ve ever seen is Arnold’s Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding. I recommend it to anyone. It will tell you allot of all what everyone is talking about. Good luck my friend. …crazy mike

Thank you Crazy Mike, I agree that is a very good book. I had the chance to thumb through it for a week while I was borrowing it from a friend. I need to pick up my own copy and study it.