Work Out Program For Obese Male?!?!

[homeboy69]

Ive been training for about 5 years only ever trying to gain weight, my long time buddy who is extremely over weight just decided to get a gym membership and wants to work out with me and looks to me for guidance at the gym. I do not know the best way to burn fat though!
I haven't asked him his weight yet but im going to guess around 5.8" and 325+lbs and also going to guess body fat % just from googling images to compare to is 40%+

I know DIET is a huge factor in his life transformation. I was going to suggest to him to eat 500cal under his BMR and try to teach him how to eat clean and think of food as fuel. Also, eating 5 small portions a day

As for as a workouts, I go to the gym 4 days a week so he will also be goin to the gym 4 days a week. I focus on gaining mass for the most part but I do run on the treadmill after every workout. I know his workout is going to have to focus on cardio much more then mine but he also wants to lift with me.

I would be new to this type of extreme fat loss situation but im thinking this for a workout (ill use Monday, chest day for an example)
-Not very strenuous cardio, 5-10min?
-Flat bench
-More cardio, 5-10min?
-Incline Bench
-Cardio, 5-10min?
-Cable Flys
-Hard cardio

maybe once he get used to the workouts introducing supersets to him

Ive seen over weight ppl do this type of workout when I was in college, Im sure it has a name that im not aware of. I know a big thing for fat burning is cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, which idk if he'll go for but ill try to talk him into it.

Help me help out my buddy plz! Is there a better/more efficient way to loose weight?! and what kind of cardio is best? Kind of a crappy gym we only have treadmills elipticals and bicycles...I don't think hes going to run on a treadmill..
Thanks

[scotty51312]

As a NASM certified trainer Ive probably had at least a 100 clients with bodyfat % above 40. The best advice I can give is full body workouts. With only small rest periods between sets emphasizing the larger muscles in the body, legs, back, glutes.

2 days a week to start with an additional 3 days of only cardio. Each 30 minute full body workout should be preceded by at 15 minute cardio warmup and followed by 15 minutes of cardio. The goal is to get the heartrate up and keep it up through the entire workout.

After a few weeks up the resistance workout to 3 times a week and additional cardio twice a week.

And one thing to remember,

The best workout and diet plan for anyone is the one they can stick too. Don't expect this guy to go from Mcdonalds 3 times a day to a totally clean diet overnight. The pathways in our brains are wired to crave what we already put into our bodies. Gradual changes in diet are best until one change becomes habit don't introduce another.

Just my humble opinion Hope it helps

[hellomycognomen]

Full body circuit type transitions might work better than splits in this case.

Need to have a exercise transition plan ahead of time. Could start with one set per muscle then add more sets.

For cardio, however you decide to implement, I would progressively try to move to a HIIT over low intensity long duration. Something like 1min fast speed walk followed by 30sec slow walk for 20-30min.

The hardest part will be psychological IMO, and diet.

-Cheers

[Hrothgar]

I'm probably starting to sound like a broken record, but Starting Strength is a really good program that does full body workouts 3x a week. I've lost about 4-5% body fat so far and I'm coming up on finishing my first month of consistent lifting. I do some cardio on off days and a little bit of accessory work so one could argue I'm not truly working the program, but it works for me. Nutrition is important too. I found for me it was much easier to just start making overall healthy lifestyle changes instead of counting calories from the start. Cutting out fast food and sugary drinks and make more meals at home. For me at least it felt a little overwhelming to be focusing on doing so many things at once.

[evander87]

As a NASM certified trainer Ive probably had at least a 100 clients with bodyfat % above 40. The best advice I can give is full body workouts. With only small rest periods between sets emphasizing the larger muscles in the body, legs, back, glutes.

2 days a week to start with an additional 3 days of only cardio. Each 30 minute full body workout should be preceded by at 15 minute cardio warmup and followed by 15 minutes of cardio. The goal is to get the heartrate up and keep it up through the entire workout.

After a few weeks up the resistance workout to 3 times a week and additional cardio twice a week.

And one thing to remember,

The best workout and diet plan for anyone is the one they can stick too. Don't expect this guy to go from Mcdonalds 3 times a day to a totally clean diet overnight. The pathways in our brains are wired to crave what we already put into our bodies. Gradual changes in diet are best until one change becomes habit don't introduce another.

Just my humble opinion Hope it helps

This is some damned good advise the only thing I'd change though is because the friend is 325 lbs I wouldn't have him doing much of any cardio until he's under 300 lbs. even walking on a treadmill is gonna be brutal on his joints and back. IMHO do Deadlifts, rows, bench, squats threes times a week short rest periods between reps and sets until he loses 25 lbs THEN with a lighter body and additional strength he could add in light cardio to build up the heart.

[JinNtonic]

The best workout and diet plan for anyone is the one they can stick too. Don't expect this guy to go from Mcdonalds 3 times a day to a totally clean diet overnight. Gradual changes in diet are best until one change becomes habit

That right there is great advice. Ive lost 80-100lbs and there is no perfect diet. It has to be something you can stick to. I am a diabetic so I am strict on low carbs. I used to eat lots of high fat foods like bacon or what ever. Then as I got better and better with the diet I now eat more veggies that I even did in the past. The longer I do it the more steps I take to make it even healthier. Because its a habit not a diet anymore.

[Chicagotarsier]

A little off topic but related....

Before even looking at a workout routine for obese I would recommend two items...

Get tested for diabetis. Beyond the "diabetis is bad" there is a wonderful drug called Metformin. Metformin is the best diet hunger suppressant (in my opinion) on the market with minimal side effects. It is cheap and when taken properly leaves you with 0 appetite until you actually put food in your mouth. My normal routine is to take a 500 dose with 5 of my 6 meals (none before my cardio swim) and double up just before my beef (last meal of day) meal. I force myself to eat while taking it. Now a lot of the guys that like taking insulin will not like this but let's face it...they are not fighting diabetis most likely. You can take up to 5000 daily of the drug so it was a godsend to me.

Do bloodwork to check for low testosterone . As mentioned in another article people just do not get super fat for no reason. Fat collection on the body only happens twice "normally" in the live of a person. There is something "wrong" usually why the fat collects even if you live sedentary. Years on years they told me what was a matter was diabetis..when it was low test. One month on trt and I went from solid diabetic to boarderline diabetic only crossing 125 blood sugar threshold when doing a heavy carb meal. I expect as my weight drops more and my insulin sensitivity improves I will no longer be diabetic at all...at worse just boarderline.

My obese workout followed one rule....the muscles you want to improve are leg, butt, calves, back and the only safe way to do that starting out is in the pool with a set of zoomers on your feet and a kick board. Buy yourself a waterfi, load your fav tunes, get a set of waterproof earphones, start slow and take your anti inflamatories. Work up to 1 hour of kicks and then add the gym weightroom to your program. The worst thing an obese can do is injure back or knee or ankle and not go to do exercise.

[30blue03]

Obesity has more to do with diet and pyschology, He could drop weight eating 1000 calories of snickers bars each day although he wouldn't be healthy... Point is focus on diet. 1700 calories/day, health options, he can diet for a bit and learn portion control, when he does that and then he can start adding some occassional cheat snacks again focusing on portion control. And Cardio isn't actually the best fat burning exercise, weight training does a better job, and circuit training does an even better job. Have him get cleared by the Dr. to start an exercise routine. If he's cleared and in the gym 4x/week with you get him doing circuit training, think the biggest loser. Instead of reps maybe try time starting off at maybe 20-30 seconds of each: Db bench, jumping jacks, sit ups. Rest for a minute and repeat 2 more times. And make a few more workouts. A nice formula for each circuit would be one strength ex, one cardio ex, one abdominal or stabilizing mm group ex.

Week one and two 4 days lifting. 2 days 20min cardio (bike, running, swimming, elliptical, stairs etc)
Start off with a warm up 5-10 min
circuit 1 3exercises a total of 8 minutes
circuit 2 3 exercises a total of 8 minutes
circuit 3 3 exercises a total of 8 minutes
cardio 10 minutes to cool down 5 minutes

Week 3 and 4 up the on time for each exercise to 40 seconds, and on cardio days bump it to 30 minutes

week 5 and 6 up the on time to 50 seconds, cardio days to 40 minutes

Week 6 and 7 up the on time to 1 minute, cardio days to 45-1 hour

week 8 download do some outdoor activities, rest/recover, if he makes it that far its great, and if he's been following portion control and calories after 8 weeks a person that size should see considerable weight loss > 20 lbs without a doubt. A couple side notes, food journals are a must, and weekly weight ins (not daily as that can have a negative effect on the psyche). No alcoholic beverages either. Good luck

[Bonaparte]

A good diet is going to more for him than any lifting program. If he isn't prepared to change his eating habits, he's wasting his time.

[Chicagotarsier]

1. No doctor is going to OK an obese person to do circuit training. Period.

2. An obese person eating a magical number of 1700 calories? BMR then TDEE and then control diet.

3. You are welcome to your opinions but it is proven that fat loss:

* Does not occur until you have maintained 70% max heartrate for 45 minutes. No obese person is going to do that in a weight room just starting out. I would challenge that most people that pump weights do not get close to holding for 45 minutes naturally aspirated. That is why Clen , T3, and uppers are so popular with people that hate cardio. They take you to an elevated temp and heartrate so as to reach that 45 minute point and actually burn fat and rid water 16+ hours

Obesity has more to do with diet and pyschology, He could drop weight eating 1000 calories of snickers bars each day although he wouldn't be healthy...

Good Point. Understanding calories fats protein and carbs is key to BMR and TDEE and diet.

Point is focus on diet. 1700 calories/day, health options, he can diet for a bit and learn portion control, when he does that and then he can start adding some occassional cheat snacks again focusing on portion control.

How tall is your obese person? 4'9? lets talk your normal obese person who has sat on the sofa and is finally tired of being made fun of. 34 years old, 5'10 280-300 lbs with bf 35% + is about average I would say. TDEE says he is due about twice what you want him on (1700) to be 500 under BMR. You need to understand BMR and TDEE before you even approach diet or diet will have no meaning.

And Cardio isn't actually the best fat burning exercise, weight training does a better job, and circuit training does an even better job.

Can you submit a reference for this? Fat burning mechanism does not occur until you hold 45 minutes (MINIMUM) at 70 max heartrate. This is why Clen, uppers, and T3 is so popular. It increases body temp and heartrate so as to move you higher on the metabolism curve toward the fat burning area. For an obese person as defined above the pool is his best chance for sustained fat burning with limited chance for injury.

Have him get cleared by the Dr. to start an exercise routine. If he's cleared and in the gym 4x/week with you get him doing circuit training, think the biggest loser.

circuit training for a guy just coming off the couch? Back injury 101..Pulled hamstring 102.. I think your definition of an obese person is very different than you find in most homes.

Instead of reps maybe try time starting off at maybe 20-30 seconds of each: Db bench, jumping jacks, sit ups. Rest for a minute and repeat 2 more times. And make a few more workouts. A nice formula for each circuit would be one strength ex, one cardio ex, one abdominal or stabilizing mm group ex.

Week one and two 4 days lifting. 2 days 20min cardio (bike, running, swimming, elliptical, stairs etc)
Start off with a warm up 5-10 min
circuit 1 3exercises a total of 8 minutes
circuit 2 3 exercises a total of 8 minutes
circuit 3 3 exercises a total of 8 minutes
cardio 10 minutes to cool down 5 minutes

Week 3 and 4 up the on time for each exercise to 40 seconds, and on cardio days bump it to 30 minutes

week 5 and 6 up the on time to 50 seconds, cardio days to 40 minutes

Week 6 and 7 up the on time to 1 minute, cardio days to 45-1 hour

week 8 download do some outdoor activities, rest/recover, if he makes it that far its great, and if he's been following portion control and calories after 8 weeks a person that size should see considerable weight loss > 20 lbs without a doubt. A couple side notes, food journals are a must, and weekly weight ins (not daily as that can have a negative effect on the psyche). No alcoholic beverages either. Good luck

I agree with 80% of what you say but getting from a sloth to a person that can actually ride a stationary bike without injury for most obese people is a path of its own. Also do not forget most people are overweight...they go to obese due to an injury or as you pointed out..mental. Do all you can for 2 months to build stamina, some muscle, NO INJURY and then introduce impact cardio (running, steps, etc)

[hellomycognomen]

1. No doctor is going to OK an obese person to do circuit training. Period.

2. An obese person eating a magical number of 1700 calories? BMR then TDEE and then control diet.

3. You are welcome to your opinions but it is proven that fat loss:

* Does not occur until you have maintained 70% max heartrate for 45 minutes. No obese person is going to do that in a weight room just starting out. I would challenge that most people that pump weights do not get close to holding for 45 minutes naturally aspirated. That is why Clen, T3, and uppers are so popular with people that hate cardio. They take you to an elevated temp and heartrate so as to reach that 45 minute point and actually burn fat and rid water 16+ hours

What are you talking about?

If 45min 70%HR low intensity long duration "cardio" was the best thing for fat loss, why is it that in every gym you enter all the fat bodies are in the cardio machines and all the ripped buff low body fat people are in the weight rack?

You can lose fat in a variety of ways, calorie restricted diet and intense exercise routine is best combination.

[scotty51312]

I've noticed that someones first thought was medication.

"let they food be thy medicine" ~Hippocrates

I've seen blood pressure controlled, cholesterol lowered, and people off medication for diabetes just from proper diet and exercise. Medication should be IMHO when those two don't work.


Peoples bodies who are 300lbs and 30%+bf, want to lose weight and get rid of the fat they've stored. Most obese clients I've had lost 10-15lbs a month (the ones who actually wanted to and stuck with the program) for the first 3 months or so.

Our bodies recognize when we are unhealthy, and the initial shock of activity causes fat loss faster in overweight people in a lot of cases. Now for someone like myself for instance. being around 17%bf right now, loosing 10-15lbs of fat in a month would require drastic measures that I'm not willing to take.

Every dietary consultation I've done has lead me to believe that we should stop focusing on what people need to take out of their diets and focus on what they need to add. Putting the right fuel in someones body causes them to crave that fuel again. Eventually by adding enough healthy food sources you push out the not so healthy ones.

By telling someone they can't have something you only make them crave it more. Especially in a society where we are exposed to some kind of unhealthy "food" marketing every few minutes. This is one of the principles used in rehab facilities, not focusing on the bad "habit" that got the addict there to begin with but focusing on introducing good habits until there is no room for the bad one.

There is no written rule book that works for everyone to shed fat. But there are basic guidelines.

Encouragement is the best part of any weight loss plan. No one pays a personal trainer or dietitian for workout advice or diet advice. Everything you want to learn is out there on you tube videos and books and social media. They pay a personal trainer to have someone encourage them in a positive way and someone to help them hold themselves accountable.

So to the OP, whatever plan your friend gets on keep up the encouragement.

[Chicagotarsier]

Two points here.
Buff is not necessarily healthy. Many of the buff people are walking around with poor diets and full of chemicals that they do not need. A lot of them die at early ages or F themselves up worse than any obese person is.

Second, most gyms do not have a pool. Why would a for profit institution send a person packing and turn down their money "for the right reason"? Never

Third, I have worked int he land of the obese for the past 10 years (IT geek land) and have watched over 50 guys I personally supervised go through the process of getting off their butts and back to healthy. The only ones that did not experience downtime due to injury were the ones that did the non-impact exercise routine first then added gym..again I am just going on personal experience and knowledge.

Finally, the FACT is 45 minutes at 70% is when fat burning begins to occur in a naturally aspirated human body..do not shoot the messenger. It is science. As far as being able to do 45 minutes at 70% max hearrate you are looking at less than 5 % of the North American and European population that can do this at any given time and that takes into consideration military personnel.

Think about a person going too fast on AAS and blowing a pec due to not strengthening the ligaments and connective tissue...it is the same thing but times 100 with a couch potato. Hell one guy in my department tore his ACL plugging in the coffee maker..no lie.

What are you talking about?

If 45min 70%HR low intensity long duration "cardio" was the best thing for fat loss, why is it that in every gym you enter all the fat bodies are in the cardio machines and all the ripped buff low body fat people are in the weight rack?

You can lose fat in a variety of ways, calorie restricted diet and intense exercise routine is best combination.

[Chicagotarsier]

My smart ass comment will be that Hippocrates did not have low testosterone and need trt

My first thought was to see if there was something wrong with the human body to start. We would not be on this forum if not for medicine. AAS, synthetic testosterone , Clen , T3, all of it is medicine we choose to take.

You are more than 1000% correct that healthy lifestyle is a HUGE if not the top priority a person should have to get fit. We have to remember that every person is different and each person has a story to tell. I have swam a total average of 7 km a day for the past three years, daily in the gym, under BMR and TDEE with my eats and did very little to tweek my diet when I cam to this board. I balooned from 120Kg to 160Kg over those three years due to low testosterone (extreme) amplifying the effects of diabetes in my body.

I have no idea on initial shock to the body and its response. If you are able to accomplish 45 pounds loss in your clients over three months that is great but the question I have to ask is what percent of them is this? The ones that are there for real just need positive words as you said and they are going to do what they are going to do. How many drop out due to injury or body pain or mental pain? I would wager if your records are adequate less than 25% stick it through to 6 months that start obese. I would also wager that of those 75% that drop if asked why it would be pain, hurt, injury, or no time. How many would stay with the program that drop if you removed pain and injury by 60-70-80%? It would result in a majority of the initial subjects on average or close to a majority if all things are kept equal.

This is the reason you do it right. Check your health. Get bloodwork. Do your BMR. Do your TDEE. Understand your diet. Set your goals. Understand the consequences for your goals (below TDEE calories, 40-30-30 macro, rest, water, more rest, chemicals if you choose that route voluntarily or by necessity).

The goal is to take an obese person and make them over weight then make them normal on the bodyfat chart. 0 progress is done if they are injured or have so much pain they cannot continue or do not want to continue. So maybe we should look at those that "don't stick with it" and learn from them. Find out if 75% of the people just want to be fat or there is a hurdle we can lower that is preventing them from getting from point to point. That is all I am saying. I want everyone to reach their goals and the ones that have it hardest in this game are fat arses (like me) going from being a super fat arse to jsut a fat arse then to fat then to overweight then to normal arse.

I've noticed that someones first thought was medication.

"let they food be thy medicine" ~Hippocrates

I've seen blood pressure controlled, cholesterol lowered, and people off medication for diabetes just from proper diet and exercise. Medication should be IMHO when those two don't work.


Peoples bodies who are 300lbs and 30%+bf, want to lose weight and get rid of the fat they've stored. Most obese clients I've had lost 10-15lbs a month (the ones who actually wanted to and stuck with the program) for the first 3 months or so.

Our bodies recognize when we are unhealthy, and the initial shock of activity causes fat loss faster in overweight people in a lot of cases. Now for someone like myself for instance. being around 17%bf right now, loosing 10-15lbs of fat in a month would require drastic measures that I'm not willing to take.

Every dietary consultation I've done has lead me to believe that we should stop focusing on what people need to take out of their diets and focus on what they need to add. Putting the right fuel in someones body causes them to crave that fuel again. Eventually by adding enough healthy food sources you push out the not so healthy ones.

By telling someone they can't have something you only make them crave it more. Especially in a society where we are exposed to some kind of unhealthy "food" marketing every few minutes. This is one of the principles used in rehab facilities, not focusing on the bad "habit" that got the addict there to begin with but focusing on introducing good habits until there is no room for the bad one.

There is no written rule book that works for everyone to shed fat. But there are basic guidelines.

Encouragement is the best part of any weight loss plan. No one pays a personal trainer or dietitian for workout advice or diet advice. Everything you want to learn is out there on you tube videos and books and social media. They pay a personal trainer to have someone encourage them in a positive way and someone to help them hold themselves accountable.

So to the OP, whatever plan your friend gets on keep up the encouragement.

[scotty51312]

As far as my record keeping goes from the initial consult 25% would probably be the number that experience these results. I have the pleasure of choosing who I train since I only spend about 15-20 hours a week training As far as the other 75% I'd say injury may account for 5%. Id say I drop another 25%. The biggest failure factor I would say is mental. Either they experience a plateau for a couple weeks and give up, or they just weren't that committed in the first place. And I'm sure I fail to reach a certain amount of people as well. All clients are required to receive a consult from our physician if they are over answer any question "yes" on their screenings.

If you're saying that 45 minutes at 70% intensity is the only way to lose fat, I simply don't buy it. The effects of physical activity last much longer than the activity itself.

I will admit that lots of initial weight loss isn't fat. At morbidly obese levels a person can be carrying around a huge amount of water weight due to poor diet and also the mess of weight that is an obese persons digestive track.

If I'm not mistaken this 45 minute process your quoting is based on the time it takes for the body's first two sources of energy to be depleted 1. ATP (chemical energy in muscle) 2. Glycogen (stored in the liver and requiring oxygen use) Then the body burns fat for energy?
that transition from glycogen to the final stage of fuel burn is what marathon runners refer to as hitting the wall. Some people can push past it some can't. So to me this method of burning fat makes complete sense if you're already an athlete.

I enjoy a good debate but I will just have to agree to disagree with the 45 minute intervals at 70% being the only way to effective fat loss. HIIT is in my opinion the best way to burn fat for those who are able to do it.

[30blue03]

Actually I am a Dr. And depending on the individuals medical history current and past I may or may not have a problem with circuit training and/or low intensity training. Also 70% max heart rate for 45 minutes is the correct formula if you don't read between the lines of studies. The fat burning zone does burn more fat calories per calories but less overall calories as opposed to going higher into the 80% range. Higher will burn more total calories... although the ratio will be less fat calories, the overall will be more, this equals more fat calories and more overall calories. This is why the show the biggest loser takes obese people who are medically fit for exercise and trains them with a combination of proper diet, and high/low intensity exercise, with great success.

An obese person can still circuit train, its not the same as a circuit that a healthy individual will perform. In a circuit of 30 seconds Db bench, 30 seconds jumping jacks, 30 seconds sit ups, the obese individual might be doing 5 lbs for db press getting 10 reps in 30 seconds, maybe 10 jumping jacks in 30 seconds, and maybe 5 sit ups. They may require more rest between circuits, they may only be able to tolerate 30 minutes of exercise, but the body will adapt to the stress. If you think that is to intense or to much for a 5'10 325 male cleared by a dr. for exercise, I'd have to disagree from patients I've used that same formula on.

As far as calories I understand very well TDEE and BMR. Again the biggest loser show which has great success with clients and some great medical staff, trainers, and dieticians used a calorie count of 1,000-1,500 per day.

[hellomycognomen]

Two points here.
Buff is not necessarily healthy. Many of the buff people are walking around with poor diets and full of chemicals that they do not need. A lot of them die at early ages or F themselves up worse than any obese person is.

Second, most gyms do not have a pool. Why would a for profit institution send a person packing and turn down their money "for the right reason"? Never

Third, I have worked int he land of the obese for the past 10 years (IT geek land) and have watched over 50 guys I personally supervised go through the process of getting off their butts and back to healthy. The only ones that did not experience downtime due to injury were the ones that did the non-impact exercise routine first then added gym..again I am just going on personal experience and knowledge.

Finally, the FACT is 45 minutes at 70% is when fat burning begins to occur in a naturally aspirated human body..do not shoot the messenger. It is science. As far as being able to do 45 minutes at 70% max hearrate you are looking at less than 5 % of the North American and European population that can do this at any given time and that takes into consideration military personnel.

Think about a person going too fast on AAS and blowing a pec due to not strengthening the ligaments and connective tissue...it is the same thing but times 100 with a couch potato. Hell one guy in my department tore his ACL plugging in the coffee maker..no lie.

IMO low intensity long duration cardio is good for health reasons of maintaining the cardiovascular system. If burning calories are your focus this type of training is a waste of time. The calories burned are minimal and can easily be reduced in the diet.

IMO the best and most effective way to burn calories and build muscle are weight resistance training, and HIIT. Both will burn more calories in less time and improve musculature.

Additionally idk where you get the idea that many buff people have poor diets and are walking around full of chemicals. You cannot get buff/ripped/etc if your diet is shit no matter how much aas you take.

Lastly idk what you consider "non-impact" but the treadmill is one of the most impacting pieces of equipment there is.

[Chicagotarsier]

Burning fat vs burning calories is the caveat in all of this.

My personal (for me) opinion for my body is doing high heart training 80% + hurts my overall training because I need down days to recover. The benefits I am missing from the higher heart training include increased mitochondrial tissue and rapid increase in strength. Because I choose to not take pain relievers beyond aleve and advil makes me not able to work through he pain of the harder training without the down time.

Impact is the measure of momentary body push when two surfaces meet. High impact is bad for the joints and increases micro-fractures in bone material. When you run or jog it is the second worst possible exercise when considering damage due to impact....jumping rope and doing boxes are the worst. Is the cardio better doing the higher impact exercises that put you into the 80% + heart rate category? My personal opinion is no. The injury trade off is not worth it and if a person took the time to actually become a good swimmer they would see that doing 80% heartrate in the pool is very easy to achieve with a pair of zoomers and results in 0 impact damage or injuries. My theory only. Am I right or wrong? Doesn't matter. Everyone has their own thing they do and they do it how they feel it is best and their body responds.

I will put the buff aspect in a different way.

Buff people on chemicals (truly buff not gym rat skinny kid "buff") need to have blood work done on a very very regular basis. Just considering the effects cycling has on lab results it is recommended to do a before, mid, and end, and post pct lab. From the buff people in Chicago that I gymed with and are lifelong friends I can tell you that is a laughable aspect. They live by rules of thumb and only lab when "they need it". They would not know if their diet was good or not when the effects of the chemicals are not being monitored properly. You can eat only "good clean" items but how good is an egg (which is a major part of a body builder's diet) when your cholesterol is 20% high out of range? If you are a body builder and you cycle twice a year have you had 8 blood works done this year? This is as unhealthy as sitting on the sofa as an obese person. Look at ultimate warrior. Picture of fitness, no fat for years and years, still looking good in his 50s...and yet he dies due to "heart disease". Not genetic heart disease but "Heart Disease" which means anything from chemicals damaging the heart to cholesterol build up or muscle hardening. Healthy is a lot more than looking buff. It is monitoring the body and then responding with correct lifestyle. I can go on and on but understanding YOUR body and doing what is good for YOU and your body state is what is right.

I have shoulders and bis to hit..got to get to the gym lol. Will respond more when I return.

[hellomycognomen]

Burning fat vs burning calories is the caveat in all of this.

My personal (for me) opinion for my body is doing high heart training 80% + hurts my overall training because I need down days to recover. The benefits I am missing from the higher heart training include increased mitochondrial tissue and rapid increase in strength. Because I choose to not take pain relievers beyond aleve and advil makes me not able to work through he pain of the harder training without the down time.

Impact is the measure of momentary body push when two surfaces meet. High impact is bad for the joints and increases micro-fractures in bone material. When you run or jog it is the second worst possible exercise when considering damage due to impact....jumping rope and doing boxes are the worst. Is the cardio better doing the higher impact exercises that put you into the 80% + heart rate category? My personal opinion is no. The injury trade off is not worth it and if a person took the time to actually become a good swimmer they would see that doing 80% heartrate in the pool is very easy to achieve with a pair of zoomers and results in 0 impact damage or injuries. My theory only. Am I right or wrong? Doesn't matter. Everyone has their own thing they do and they do it how they feel it is best and their body responds.

I will put the buff aspect in a different way.

Buff people on chemicals (truly buff not gym rat skinny kid "buff") need to have blood work done on a very very regular basis. Just considering the effects cycling has on lab results it is recommended to do a before, mid, and end, and post pct lab. From the buff people in Chicago that I gymed with and are lifelong friends I can tell you that is a laughable aspect. They live by rules of thumb and only lab when "they need it". They would not know if their diet was good or not when the effects of the chemicals are not being monitored properly. You can eat only "good clean" items but how good is an egg (which is a major part of a body builder's diet) when your cholesterol is 20% high out of range? If you are a body builder and you cycle twice a year have you had 8 blood works done this year? This is as unhealthy as sitting on the sofa as an obese person. Look at ultimate warrior. Picture of fitness, no fat for years and years, still looking good in his 50s...and yet he dies due to "heart disease". Not genetic heart disease but "Heart Disease" which means anything from chemicals damaging the heart to cholesterol build up or muscle hardening. Healthy is a lot more than looking buff. It is monitoring the body and then responding with correct lifestyle. I can go on and on but understanding YOUR body and doing what is good for YOU and your body state is what is right.

I have shoulders and bis to hit..got to get to the gym lol. Will respond more when I return.

Im not sure you know what you are talking about.

Its already demonstrated that blood cholesterol is not linked to dietary cholesterol.

Eggs are about a perfect a meal as you can get in nature.

Additionally IMO you are highly underestimating the human body ability to adapt and come back stronger.

However in order for this to happen you must provide the appropriate stimulus. A low intensity workout will not yield the same results as a high intensity one.

There are also plenty of super ripped natural bodybuilders with amazing physiques.

[Chicagotarsier]

Im not sure you know what you are talking about.

Its already demonstrated that blood cholesterol is not linked to dietary cholesterol. Can you link or give source to this? The medical books say the opposite that I have access to. My blood work says opposite also. Just dropping eggs with yolk from my diet put me in normal range. Eating yolks pushes me into the area of lipitor. I agree they are perfect food..why I eat the yolks in all their yummy goodness and pop the lipitor. This was tested twice with me and both times results were the same.

Eggs are about a perfect a meal as you can get in nature.

Additionally IMO you are highly underestimating the human body ability to adapt and come back stronger. If you are dead..there is no comeback. This is a point of debate that is endless. Being smart and being dumb are the two categories. The normal rule is the stupid will be punished.

However in order for this to happen you must provide the appropriate stimulus. A low intensity workout will not yield the same results as a high intensity one. AMEN to that. No doubt about it. If you can handle high intensity go for it. If you cannot do what you can handle until you can reach the top tier.

There are also plenty of super ripped natural bodybuilders with amazing physiques.

But as the saying is "Nut up or shut up". For guys like me it is time to nut up since my "issue" has been identified and corrected it is time to walk the walk.

[hellomycognomen]

But as the saying is "Nut up or shut up". For guys like me it is time to nut up since my "issue" has been identified and corrected it is time to walk the walk.

I dont know what this means ^^

As far as dietary cholesterol, you may be a hyperresponder to it, or have familial hypercholesterolemia.

In normal healthy individuals eating whole eggs daily is perfectly healthy.

If you want the studies do a google scholar search, there are hundreds of peer reviewed articles all in favor of eating eggs.

Anyways this is already off topic with OP.

--------------------

OP motivate your friend to change his diet, restrict calories ~5-800, and do whatever physical workout activity he can tolerate. Something is better than nothing. It took him years to get obese and will take most likely an equal amount of time to get back to normal ranges. Set small achievable goals and the progress will come.

[scotty51312]

Burning fat vs burning calories is the caveat in all of this.

My personal (for me) opinion for my body is doing high heart training 80% + hurts my overall training because I need down days to recover. The benefits I am missing from the higher heart training include increased mitochondrial tissue and rapid increase in strength. Because I choose to not take pain relievers beyond aleve and advil makes me not able to work through he pain of the harder training without the down time.

Impact is the measure of momentary body push when two surfaces meet. High impact is bad for the joints and increases micro-fractures in bone material. When you run or jog it is the second worst possible exercise when considering damage due to impact....jumping rope and doing boxes are the worst. Is the cardio better doing the higher impact exercises that put you into the 80% + heart rate category? My personal opinion is no. The injury trade off is not worth it and if a person took the time to actually become a good swimmer they would see that doing 80% heartrate in the pool is very easy to achieve with a pair of zoomers and results in 0 impact damage or injuries. My theory only. Am I right or wrong? Doesn't matter. Everyone has their own thing they do and they do it how they feel it is best and their body responds.

I will put the buff aspect in a different way.

Buff people on chemicals (truly buff not gym rat skinny kid "buff") need to have blood work done on a very very regular basis. Just considering the effects cycling has on lab results it is recommended to do a before, mid, and end, and post pct lab. From the buff people in Chicago that I gymed with and are lifelong friends I can tell you that is a laughable aspect. They live by rules of thumb and only lab when "they need it". They would not know if their diet was good or not when the effects of the chemicals are not being monitored properly. You can eat only "good clean" items but how good is an egg (which is a major part of a body builder's diet) when your cholesterol is 20% high out of range? If you are a body builder and you cycle twice a year have you had 8 blood works done this year? This is as unhealthy as sitting on the sofa as an obese person. Look at ultimate warrior. Picture of fitness, no fat for years and years, still looking good in his 50s...and yet he dies due to "heart disease". Not genetic heart disease but "Heart Disease" which means anything from chemicals damaging the heart to cholesterol build up or muscle hardening. Healthy is a lot more than looking buff. It is monitoring the body and then responding with correct lifestyle. I can go on and on but understanding YOUR body and doing what is good for YOU and your body state is what is right.

I have shoulders and bis to hit..got to get to the gym lol. Will respond more when I return.

Are you saying that eating cholesterol and blood work levels are related? Site your source on this please