So many contradictions...

[redrum86]

I have some generalized questions that I can't get answers to or getting mixed answers. I am 28 male 6'2 253lbs about 25%BF.
My main goal is to lose fat and obviously build strength and/or muscle. I keep reading that it's not possible, it is possible, and its possible but it will take forever. I have lost 16lbs eating better and tracking by weighing food and jogging 3x a week for 35min in the AM fasted but no weight lifting. I stalled. I will get over to the nutrition section shortly but need some info.

1. What is the best and fastest way to achieve my goals of losing fat without it taking forever? (keep in mind i am extremely confused as I explained above and re-reading everything I have read throughout the forums contradict) If losing weight and building muscle would take forever, and weight training builds muscle, do I not weight train? Some one shed some light on this before I rip my hair out

2. Would Starting Strength be a good foundation to build upon based on my goals?

3. Should I eat in surplus to build muscle and then lose weight? Or the other way around? (I realy don't want to eat surplus and gain more fat btw)

Thanks fellas

[Docd187123]

1) the timing depends on many factors. One is how advanced you are. Newbies can make progress in both directions (building muscle and cutting fat) relatively easy with sound nutrition and training principles. The more advanced you get the harder it becomes. As you noticed you reached a point where you stalled.

The best way to cut fat is to eat in a calorie deficit, maintain decent macros, and train with weights as this will help preserve and in some cases continue to build muscle. The best way to build muscle is to lift weights and eat in a calorie surplus. As you can see the nutritional angles of each oppose each other.

IMO you should always weight train. Weights help preserve muscle mass. During a cut intensity is more important than volume for maintaining muscle mass so you can cut your overall work down if you want but keep the intensity high.

2) starting strength is a great program for beginners. One of the best but it has it's drawbacks. You WILL stall sooner rather than later if you're not eating to gain weight. No way around it. Many beginners experience recomp like effects on this program but to get the most out of it you'll need to gain weight, muscle, and fat. If you're more worried about dropping BF than stick to another program IMO although again you can notice some fat loss just from building more muscle. If strength and muscle is a bigger priority than keep SS but eat like the program calls for and understand the limitations.

3) you answered your own question here. The BF is the most important issue to you at the moment so work on that first.

[redrum86]

1) the timing depends on many factors. One is how advanced you are. Newbies can make progress in both directions (building muscle and cutting fat) relatively easy with sound nutrition and training principles. The more advanced you get the harder it becomes. As you noticed you reached a point where you stalled.

The best way to cut fat is to eat in a calorie deficit, maintain decent macros, and train with weights as this will help preserve and in some cases continue to build muscle. The best way to build muscle is to lift weights and eat in a calorie surplus. As you can see the nutritional angles of each oppose each other.

IMO you should always weight train. Weights help preserve muscle mass. During a cut intensity is more important than volume for maintaining muscle mass so you can cut your overall work down if you want but keep the intensity high.

2) starting strength is a great program for beginners. One of the best but it has it's drawbacks. You WILL stall sooner rather than later if you're not eating to gain weight. No way around it. Many beginners experience recomp like effects on this program but to get the most out of it you'll need to gain weight, muscle, and fat. If you're more worried about dropping BF than stick to another program IMO although again you can notice some fat loss just from building more muscle. If strength and muscle is a bigger priority than keep SS but eat like the program calls for and understand the limitations.

3) you answered your own question here. The BF is the most important issue to you at the moment so work on that first.

Thanks for the reply and for helping me understand this better. To me , right now, losing fat is more important. I am a newb so building a little muscle in the beginning is a plus. I understand the reason for the sooner stall on starting strength now. But if I stall out on weight and muscle progress and continue to lift the same weight, will my fat loss stall as well or will I be able to continue losing body fat? You said you would stick to another program. Which program would that be? Should I steer clear of compound exercises all together for the simple fact of stalling?
One other thing on stalling. I understand it gets harder and harder to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. Throw me a ballpark figure here. I am 25%bf now. What bf% should be attainable before doing both starts slowing down?

[Hrothgar]

Body re-composition is very possible for a beginner with high BF%. Just eat at a caloric deficit and lift heavy, you'll be G2G.

Also +1 for Starting Strength, here has been my progress with it after about 7 weeks.

Squat: 135 lb -> 245 lb
Bench : 115 lb -> 150 lb
Overhead Press: 60 lb -> 100 lb
Deadlift: 155 lb -> 315 lb

I do the practical programming variation on it so I don't clean.

[shaunjohn242002]

no matter what program you decide, keep compound movements in everything you do

[redrum86]

Body re-composition is very possible for a beginner with high BF%. Just eat at a caloric deficit and lift heavy, you'll be G2G.

Also +1 for Starting Strength, here has been my progress with it after about 7 weeks.

Squat: 135 lb -> 245 lb
Bench : 115 lb -> 150 lb
Overhead Press: 60 lb -> 100 lb
Deadlift: 155 lb -> 315 lb

I do the practical programming variation on it so I don't clean.

Those are awesome gains! Were you eating is a deficit as well? How much weight did you lose?

no matter what program you decide, keep compound movements in everything you do

Thanks bud

[Hrothgar]

Those are awesome gains! Were you eating is a deficit as well? How much weight did you lose?

I have been eating at a deficit, but most of my diet is lean meats. I have been eating around 200g of protein (50g a day comes from whey the rest chicken and fish) and eating 2000 calories a day. I've lost about 15 pounds and around 8% body fat.

[Docd187123]

Thanks for the reply and for helping me understand this better. To me , right now, losing fat is more important. I am a newb so building a little muscle in the beginning is a plus. I understand the reason for the sooner stall on starting strength now. But if I stall out on weight and muscle progress and continue to lift the same weight, will my fat loss stall as well or will I be able to continue losing body fat? You said you would stick to another program. Which program would that be? Should I steer clear of compound exercises all together for the simple fact of stalling?
One other thing on stalling. I understand it gets harder and harder to lose fat and build muscle at the same time. Throw me a ballpark figure here. I am 25%bf now. What bf% should be attainable before doing both starts slowing down?

No, if you stall on strength you can continue to lose fat so long as you remain in a calorie deficit. I don't really have another program in mind. For beginners this is my favorite program to recommend. It will get you stronger and bigger fast...if you're eating correctly.

Rippetoe actually comments in the book that an overweight trainee will notice himself leaning out as strength progress is made. Here's an option if you want to attempt running SS during this period: start very low with weights to leave room for longer progression.The program is also a method to getting good form and habits. Do the program as designed while eating in a 10-15% calorie deficit. You'll still make progress towards both goals this way for a short period of time. At some point you'll notice it becoming very hard to keep adding weight every workout. This is when you'll have to decide if you want to continue on SS you'll need to start eating more (you'll have leaned out some by this point) or if you want to keep cutting you can slow the progression down to every other workout or every other week OR you can try changing programs to something more forgiving during a cut.

Never steer clear of compound exercises. In fact you should always be doing them. Their progression in terms of strength though can be limited if cutting. A rough guess would be around ~18% give or take...probably more give than take

[Hrothgar]

No, if you stall on strength you can continue to lose fat so long as you remain in a calorie deficit. I don't really have another program in mind. For beginners this is my favorite program to recommend. It will get you stronger and bigger fast...if you're eating correctly.

Rippetoe actually comments in the book that an overweight trainee will notice himself leaning out as strength progress is made. Here's an option if you want to attempt running SS during this period: start very low with weights to leave room for longer progression.The program is also a method to getting good form and habits. Do the program as designed while eating in a 10-15% calorie deficit. You'll still make progress towards both goals this way for a short period of time. At some point you'll notice it becoming very hard to keep adding weight every workout. This is when you'll have to decide if you want to continue on SS you'll need to start eating more (you'll have leaned out some by this point) or if you want to keep cutting you can slow the progression down to every other workout or every other week OR you can try changing programs to something more forgiving during a cut.

Never steer clear of compound exercises. In fact you should always be doing them. Their progression in terms of strength though can be limited if cutting. A rough guess would be around ~18% give or take...probably more give than take

In addition to this I recommend getting the starting strength DVD along with the book. Read the "Learning the Lifts" section for each lift and the section on programming at the end of the book. Then watch the videos and then go lift. After a couple weeks do it again except starting reading all the other stuff outside of the "learning the lifts" section because there is a lot of interesting information in there. Keep revisiting the material every couple of weeks and you will keep getting things out of it that you didn't know to look for until you got more experience. Also if you feel anything getting sore that doesn't feel like muscle soreness there is usually a section dedicated in each lift section of the book to troubleshooting your form to fix the pain.

After you've maxed out your linear progression program meaning you can no longer add weight every workout and you've done a deload once or twice just to make sure then I suggest looking at a weekly progression program such as Texas Method. Once that is maxed out then 5/3/1 Boring But Big which is a monthly progression. This is assuming powerlifting or powerbuilding is your goal. If you want to do bodybuilding then I would diverge to something else after Starting Strength like PHAT.

[Docd187123]

In addition to this I recommend getting the starting strength DVD along with the book. Read the "Learning the Lifts" section for each lift and the section on programming at the end of the book. Then watch the videos and then go lift. After a couple weeks do it again except starting reading all the other stuff outside of the "learning the lifts" section because there is a lot of interesting information in there. Keep revisiting the material every couple of weeks and you will keep getting things out of it that you didn't know to look for until you got more experience. Also if you feel anything getting sore that doesn't feel like muscle soreness there is usually a section dedicated in each lift section of the book to troubleshooting your form to fix the pain.

After you've maxed out your linear progression program meaning you can no longer add weight every workout and you've done a deload once or twice just to make sure then I suggest looking at a weekly progression program such as Texas Method. Once that is maxed out then 5/3/1 Boring But Big which is a monthly progression. This is assuming powerlifting or powerbuilding is your goal. If you want to do bodybuilding then I would diverge to something else after Starting Strength like PHAT.

Have you read Practical Programming by Rip and Kilgore? If not I highly recommend it

[Hrothgar]

Have you read Practical Programming by Rip and Kilgore? If not I highly recommend it

Not yet, it's definitely on my more immediate to do list though.

[redrum86]

Thanks again guys. I was on vacation last week so I couldn't respond. Today was my first day on SS and my lifts seem pathetic for a guy my size. I have a few other questions pertaining to this program. I noticed the gym I joined doesn't have 2.5lbs weights for 5lbs jumps. I really don't want to add 10lbs for the bench and overhead press as I believe I will stall way to fast. What do I do in this case?
Also, when it came to my dead lifts, I was doing them in front of the squat rack and used two 25lbs to put on the floor on both sides of the bar to raise the bar to where it should be. I was getting stared at like crazy. Am I doing something wrong with this? Is there a place I am supposed to do deadlifts? Is there another way without adding weights to the floor to raise the bar when warming up?

[Docd187123]

Thanks again guys. I was on vacation last week so I couldn't respond. Today was my first day on SS and my lifts seem pathetic for a guy my size. I have a few other questions pertaining to this program. I noticed the gym I joined doesn't have 2.5lbs weights for 5lbs jumps. I really don't want to add 10lbs for the bench and overhead press as I believe I will stall way to fast. What do I do in this case?
Also, when it came to my dead lifts, I was doing them in front of the squat rack and used two 25lbs to put on the floor on both sides of the bar to raise the bar to where it should be. I was getting stared at like crazy. Am I doing something wrong with this? Is there a place I am supposed to do deadlifts? Is there another way without adding weights to the floor to raise the bar when warming up?

I'm on the SS forums and a member there sells custom micro plates he makes at his family's CNC shop I believe. I got a set for $30 which has as small as 1/8lb up to 2.5lb plates. You can also find them on amazon, elitefts, rogue fitness, etc.

No you're doing it correctly for deads. Another option is to take those plastic step things they use for aerobics classes and use that to prop the bar up. Ht what you're doing is fine.

SS is meant for beginners and novices. Don't be bummed about your lifts bc squats for example should be going up 15-30lbs a week in the beginning which is incredibly fast progress. Keep hitting it hard and be patient. Progress will come in bits and spurts. Consistency is what will make or break you.

[redrum86]

I'm on the SS forums and a member there sells custom micro plates he makes at his family's CNC shop I believe. I got a set for $30 which has as small as 1/8lb up to 2.5lb plates. You can also find them on amazon, elitefts, rogue fitness, etc.

No you're doing it correctly for deads. Another option is to take those plastic step things they use for aerobics classes and use that to prop the bar up. Ht what you're doing is fine.

SS is meant for beginners and novices. Don't be bummed about your lifts bc squats for example should be going up 15-30lbs a week in the beginning which is incredibly fast progress. Keep hitting it hard and be patient. Progress will come in bits and spurts. Consistency is what will make or break you.

I signed up on the forum and posted a thread but it never got posted. It was actually regarding my question here so i am glad I am getting answers.
I am going to look into buying those plates online. I'm looking for standard olympic barbell weights, right?
15-30lbs is what scares me. My legs feel like they are giving out on my last set of squatting 75. Thats why I wanted to do 10lbs incriments. I can't see jumping 30lbs by the end of this week!

[Docd187123]

I signed up on the forum and posted a thread but it never got posted. It was actually regarding my question here so i am glad I am getting answers.
I am going to look into buying those plates online. I'm looking for standard olympic barbell weights, right?
15-30lbs is what scares me. My legs feel like they are giving out on my last set of squatting 75. Thats why I wanted to do 10lbs incriments. I can't see jumping 30lbs by the end of this week!

Your account needs to get approved by Mark or Staff over there first. Usually takes a few days. Yes any standard plates will work. Just google micro plates and many should come up. My first few weeks on SS I had my squat going up 15lbs per workout or 45lbs per week lol. It's doable but I was eating in a surplus whereas you're maintaining/cutting. You shouldn't be having much difficulty getting weight on the bar the first few weeks. There may be form or other issues that need addressing.