Are Muscles Supposed to hurt?

[tcw]

I've been training A LONG TIME.

But one thing i've not been able to figure out is "are your muscle's supposed to be sore the next day?"

What's the theory behind muscle ache following a workout?

Some times my muscles will have a slight ache (like i know i've hit them good the day before) BUT most often they don't.

Do they need to Hurt to make any gains?

PS. I remember OVER-TRAINING as a young man....and i knew this was not good (i'm an ecotomorph).

[Khazima]

DOMS (delayed onset of muscle soreness) just mean you broke them down and they've begun the repairing process.

It's not necessary to get DOMS all the time but it will likely happen when you switch things up or increase volume etc and can be a good indicator you hit that muscle properly.

[Times Roman]

to a certain extent, you do not want your muscle tissue to become acclimated to your routines. You need to change up and hit the muscle groups from all sides. AND this will make them sore because not used to the routine...

....a little sore is good the next day.

If you never got sore, I'd say you are probably lacking intensity

[Docd187123]

to a certain extent, you do not want your muscle tissue to become acclimated to your routines. You need to change up and hit the muscle groups from all sides. AND this will make them sore because not used to the routine...

....a little sore is good the next day.

If you never got sore, I'd say you are probably lacking intensity

if you're talking about DOMS then it has more to do with the eccentric portion of a lift and not the intensity with which you lift.

[Hard_Body]

Non of my muscles ever get sore except legs, that seems to be about it due to walking on them the next day.

[Lifted1]

if training properly with sufficient volume, yes.

[Buster Brown]

to a certain extent, you do not want your muscle tissue to become acclimated to your routines. You need to change up and hit the muscle groups from all sides. AND this will make them sore because not used to the routine... ....a little sore is good the next day. If you never got sore, I'd say you are probably lacking intensity

^^^^^^^Agreed... If you haven't torn the muscle down enough then it won't grow. A routine is only good for 8 weeks or so (yes, this can vary a bit amongst individuals) before adaptation sets in. If you aren't sore then your body is adapting.

[Khazima]

Muscle soreness is a very limited gauge or an effective workout. Just because your body begins to adapt to an exercise doesn't mean you don't get a hypertrophic response, as with anything you need overload on the muscle ie increasing sets/reps/weight.

A better way to gauge progress and effectiveness is by keeping track of your progress in all area ie reps for certain exercises, weight progression, measurements.

Muscle soreness only has some correlation with actual effectiveness, i could get sore plenty of different ways with little to no avail.

[Docd187123]

Muscle soreness is a very limited gauge or an effective workout. Just because your body begins to adapt to an exercise doesn't mean you don't get a hypertrophic response, as with anything you need overload on the muscle ie increasing sets/reps/weight.

A better way to gauge progress and effectiveness is by keeping track of your progress in all area ie reps for certain exercises, weight progression, measurements.

Muscle soreness only has some correlation with actual effectiveness, i could get sore plenty of different ways with little to no avail.

Agree completely.

[Buster Brown]

Muscle soreness is a very limited gauge or an effective workout. Just because your body begins to adapt to an exercise doesn't mean you don't get a hypertrophic response, as with anything you need overload on the muscle ie increasing sets/reps/weight. A better way to gauge progress and effectiveness is by keeping track of your progress in all area ie reps for certain exercises, weight progression, measurements. Muscle soreness only has some correlation with actual effectiveness, i could get sore plenty of different ways with little to no avail.

Of course overloading them is how they grow...... They won't grow unless they are forced to adapt to the demand your body is placing on it. I am not sure if you just haven't been training long enough to know when you have plateaued and it is time for a change. Obvious we don't keep growing in a linear fashion and sometimes we spend too much time trying to get more benefit out of a program that started out good but now it's time to move on. Yes..... If at the point you are not feeling the effects of hypertrophy then it's time to move on.

[Docd187123]

Of course overloading them is how they grow...... They won't grow unless they are forced to adapt to the demand your body is placing on it. I am not sure if you just haven't been training long enough to know when you have plateaued and it is time for a change. Obvious we don't keep growing in a linear fashion and sometimes we spend too much time trying to get more benefit out of a program that started out good but now it's time to move on. Yes..... If at the point you are not feeling the effects of hypertrophy then it's time to move on.

What he is saying is that the body can and will adapt to the training stimulus and you won't be getting DOMS but that doesn't mean the training protocol has lost it's efficacy. Switching up programs every 8wks or so is nonsense. No need for it. Even when you hit a plateau you don't need to switch the program per se but minor changes in the amount of reps or sets, the intensity, volume, time in between sets, cadence of the lift, etc can all break through plateaus. We do keep growing in a linear fashion but you must widen your scope. Beginners can grow day to day in their lifts whereas intermediates may grown week to week and advanced/elite can be monthly or even longer.

[Buster Brown]

What he is saying is that the body can and will adapt to the training stimulus and you won't be getting DOMS but that doesn't mean the training protocol has lost it's efficacy. Switching up programs every 8wks or so is nonsense. No need for it. Even when you hit a plateau you don't need to switch the program per se but minor changes in the amount of reps or sets, the intensity, volume, time in between sets, cadence of the lift, etc can all break through plateaus. We do keep growing in a linear fashion but you must widen your scope. Beginners can grow day to day in their lifts whereas intermediates may grown week to week and advanced/elite can be monthly or even longer.

Sorry, I totally disagree that changing up your routine every 8 weeks or so is nonsense. Maybe a young guy who is 160 pounds or so can recover quicker because his muscles are smaller and he isnt at his genetic potential yet can get results like that. Most of the guys I train with are over 200 and they do change up there routines at least 4 times a year and you know what? They make steady progress and have a lot less injuries.

[Buster Brown]

I am very happy with the people that help me design my routines.

[Docd187123]

Sorry, I totally disagree that changing up your routine every 8 weeks or so is nonsense. Maybe a young guy who is 160 pounds or so can recover quicker because his muscles are smaller and he isnt at his genetic potential yet can get results like that. Most of the guys I train with are over 200 and they do change up there routines at least 4 times a year and you know what? They make steady progress and have a lot less injuries.

It's fine to disagree and I'm not saying you absolutely cannot change your training up but I am saying there isn't the need to do it so frequently as you're suggesting. Brandon Lilly has been training the Cube Method for well over a year while still making progress. Dan Green has been on his routine for a while as well while still making progress. The guy who is doing my programming for me has been on the same program for over 2 years and totaled 1800+ raw in the 242 class. We can go back and forth with who's bigger and whos stronger but it doesn't prove anything. Simply put you should only change your program when it stops working which most of the time will be much longer than 8wks.

Soreness is a lack of adaptation to the training stimulus sure but that doesn't mean once you stop getting sore you stop receiving the stimulus to grow in size or strength. I've used a program for over 2 years that had me squatting 3x a week and I never got sore but my legs blew up in both size and strength.

PS. Changing their routines up at least 4 times a year means the switch it up every 16wks/4months or so. That's a far cry from the initial 8wks you mentioned.

[Buster Brown]

It's fine to disagree and I'm not saying you absolutely cannot change your training up but I am saying there isn't the need to do it so frequently as you're suggesting. Brandon Lilly has been training the Cube Method for well over a year while still making progress. Dan Green has been on his routine for a while as well while still making progress. The guy who is doing my programming for me has been on the same program for over 2 years and totaled 1800+ raw in the 242 class. We can go back and forth with who's bigger and whos stronger but it doesn't prove anything. Simply put you should only change your program when it stops working which most of the time will be much longer than 8wks. Soreness is a lack of adaptation to the training stimulus sure but that doesn't mean once you stop getting sore you stop receiving the stimulus to grow in size or strength. I've used a program for over 2 years that had me squatting 3x a week and I never got sore but my legs blew up in both size and strength. PS. Changing their routines up at least 4 times a year means the switch it up every 16wks/4months or so. That's a far cry from the initial 8wks you mentioned.

Not looking to go round and round either and the 8 week is an example that would I am using is relevant when it comes to HIT style training or an 8 week recovery program or even a balls to the wall program.....some guys will eat it up and be able to train at a real intense level longer then others who will plateau and overtrain. Finding out what works best for yourself is probably one of the biggest hurdles we all face.

[Juced_porkchop]

I've been training A LONG TIME.

But one thing i've not been able to figure out is "are your muscle's supposed to be sore the next day?"

What's the theory behind muscle ache following a workout?

Some times my muscles will have a slight ache (like i know i've hit them good the day before) BUT most often they don't.

Do they need to Hurt to make any gains?

PS. I remember OVER-TRAINING as a young man....and i knew this was not good (i'm an ecotomorph).

no theory too it. you build mass by damaging the muscle, you damage the muscle by working out = sore muscles..

[Buster Brown]

no theory too it. you build mass by damaging the muscle, you damage the muscle by working out = sore muscles..

Thank you!

[Docd187123]

no theory too it. you build mass by damaging the muscle, you damage the muscle by working out = sore muscles..

Damaged muscles /= sore muscles. Those are two different things. You can build mass without damaging the muscle and damage the muscle without making it sore although there is a correlation between the two. It's just not as important as most people tibjnk....the soreness part that is

[Docd187123]

Not looking to go round and round either and the 8 week is an example that would I am using is relevant when it comes to HIT style training or an 8 week recovery program or even a balls to the wall program.....some guys will eat it up and be able to train at a real intense level longer then others who will plateau and overtrain. Finding out what works best for yourself is probably one of the biggest hurdles we all face.

I agree with this. Finding a program suited to oneself and the lifestyle factors among other things is important. I just didn't want anyone hanging up on the 8wk thing. Thanks n

[Lifted1]

you guys are getting too technical...just lift heavy enough weights that are challenging for you to get 6~12 reps with maximal effort and you will grow. you will also be sore lol

[Buster Brown]

you guys are getting too technical...just lift heavy enough weights that are challenging for you to get 6~12 reps with maximal effort and you will grow. you will also be sore lol

Not really, there is a lot of science that supports reasons for different training protocols and ways to avoid adaptation.

[marcus300]

The has been debated many times over the years and everyone seems to have their own views and opinions on it based on either experience what works or some study or what they may read in some book. In simple terms you don’t need to feel soreness after a workout to grow but it’s a good indication that you have fully stimulated all the fibers and caused some serious trauma to the muscle. Changing the routine every so often is a good way to keep your body guessing, if your training with the intensity you need to fully stimulate all the fibers then you will need to change things up every so often, at what time is an individual thing some are 6 weeks other can go on up to 10 weeks but you'll know because your body will tell you it needs a deload or pullback. It isn't easy to train at this level and some cant do but in time you can reach it if you so desire. I've been training for 30yrs and still get DOMS weekly.