over training

[DylWilmot]

Hey guys need some advice from people who have experienced "overtraining" is it a myth or is it true?

My arms seem to be lagging compared to all my other muscles and I don't know if I should continue training them 2x a week or extend it to ed alternating between bi's and tri's. Any info would be appreciated thank you[

[Buster Brown]

Hey guys need some advice from people who have experienced "overtraining" is it a myth or is it true? My arms seem to be lagging compared to all my other muscles and I don't know if I should continue training them 2x a week or extend it to ed alternating between bi's and tri's. Any info would be appreciated thank you[

Overtraining is certainly real..... You can train smaller muscle twice a week but the idea is to not go overboard. Triceps will take a beating more then biceps. I think exercise selection is key if you want to put on size.

[marcus300]

Yes there is a condition what would come under the umbrella of over training, many wont agree but without doubt if your training at the level what puts your system under serious overload with a great deal of intensity then yes, that's why you need a deload or pullback after a few weeks so your CNS recovers. The guys who preach there is no such thing as over training then aren't training hard enough, check out Doiran Yates ideas on the subject and Menzter. Guys who don't train to poisitive failure and beyond wont understand but if your seriously into your training and use HIT principle then yes you defo need to take a pullback after a few wks.

I wouldn't train then everyday, try training them once but put them under so much strain and over load that they have no alternative but to grow, change the way you train not how often.

[BG]

Overtraining is certainly real..... You can train smaller muscle twice a week but the idea is to not go overboard. Triceps will take a beating more then biceps. I think exercise selection is key if you want to put on size.

Thing is training triceps more the once easily leads to tendinitis.

[DylWilmot]

Thanks guys I appreciate the information gonna search up Dorian yates right now. No over training for me ?

[Buster Brown]

Thing is training triceps more the once easily leads to tendinitis.

You are absolutely right as I have developed it but.........doing two tricep exercises twice a week say:
Close grip benches or JM press's etc with overhead extensions on chest day and..... Lying tricep extensions with dips on shoulder day have really made a difference.

[Khazima]

Thanks guys I appreciate the information gonna search up Dorian yates right now. No over training for me ?

No, you can't overtrain a select muscle group. You just haven't found what makes them respond best yet, or you're genetically cursed in the arm department.

Arms are super hard to grow for a lot of people myself included, they grow much slower than my back/chest for example.

[marcus300]

Thanks guys I appreciate the information gonna search up Dorian yates right now. No over training for me ?

Here it is, more or less preaching what I said

[DylWilmot]

That makes alot of sense. Thanks marcus300

[DylWilmot]

Khazima I have the same problem arms aren't in proportional size compared to chest/back. Hopefully high intensity training will help as dorian yates says

[marcus300]

Khazima I have the same problem arms aren't in proportional size compared to chest/back. Hopefully high intensity training will help as dorian yates says

You have to find out what makes then grow so try various methods and protocols but what you need to do is measure them and stick with a certain routine for at least 8-12 weeks and see what kind of progress you have got, if you haven't seen anything move onto to something else. Many guys train them way to often.When training them you need to train them extremely hard and put them under serious overload then let them rest and recover is the way forward. IMHO I would train bi's with tri's and break them down and put them under that much stress they have no alternative but to compensate and grow, don't train them longer than 45mins. I train mine once per week but when I do I make it count.

[BG]

Here it is, more or less preaching what I said

Priceless....."If you train with me for 45 minutes you wont be asking for more!"

[Docd187123]

You are absolutely right as I have developed it but.........doing two tricep exercises twice a week say:
Close grip benches or JM press's etc with overhead extensions on chest day and..... Lying tricep extensions with dips on shoulder day have really made a difference.

Doing JM presses doesn't aggravate your elbow tendinitis? I had to drop them for the time being bc it messed with my elbow so much my form ended up being horrible. Plan in adding them back in once I get the tendinitis under control more.

[Buster Brown]

Doing JM presses doesn't aggravate your elbow tendinitis? I had to drop them for the time being bc it messed with my elbow so much my form ended up being horrible. Plan in adding them back in once I get the tendinitis under control more.

No they don't actually but Paul Dicks press's def do ...... Go figure!

[Chicagotarsier]

Great thread.

I just took two weeks off to destress after 10 weeks hard on.

I was experiencing extreme pain in the back of my neck at the pressure points and overall was at a point where I could not sleep more than 4 hours at a time. At 10 day off point it was a different world. Neck completely without pain and overall muscle hardness improved greatly.

I am the GVT fanatic and I ws "smarter" then the pros that said every 6 weeks cut back weight to half for 2 weeks then ramp back up...so I stayed at weight at 10 weeks. Have not faced tendonitis since I started taking a medicine to reduce uric acid. I slept for 16 hours yesterday without an issue. I feel reborn.

Overtraining is real and as Marcus said...if it is not you are not pushing your body enough.

As a point when a nerve..or CNS...is under constant pressure....that is from exertion, a pinch, bad skeletal alignment...etc. it does one thing..it causes the tissue around it to act differently than at homeostasis. They finally tracked down my hip/leg nerve issue to my spine and a vertebre that internally is pinching the nerve cluster. This pinch has my left leg 15% larger (swollen) than the other and becoming hard as in so much fluid it feels like a rock in places. This happens to anywhere in your body if CNS are pushed too far.

It hurts to hear..take a few weeks off..but in the end it is the answer.

[DylWilmot]

Great thread.

I just took two weeks off to destress after 10 weeks hard on.

I was experiencing extreme pain in the back of my neck at the pressure points and overall was at a point where I could not sleep more than 4 hours at a time. At 10 day off point it was a different world. Neck completely without pain and overall muscle hardness improved greatly.

I am the GVT fanatic and I ws "smarter" then the pros that said every 6 weeks cut back weight to half for 2 weeks then ramp back up...so I stayed at weight at 10 weeks. Have not faced tendonitis since I started taking a medicine to reduce uric acid. I slept for 16 hours yesterday without an issue. I feel reborn.

Overtraining is real and as Marcus said...if it is not you are not pushing your body enough.

As a point when a nerve..or CNS...is under constant pressure....that is from exertion, a pinch, bad skeletal alignment...etc. it does one thing..it causes the tissue around it to act differently than at homeostasis. They finally tracked down my hip/leg nerve issue to my spine and a vertebre that internally is pinching the nerve cluster. This pinch has my left leg 15% larger (swollen) than the other and becoming hard as in so much fluid it feels like a rock in places. This happens to anywhere in your body if CNS are pushed too far.

It hurts to hear..take a few weeks off..but in the end it is the answer.

Yes Marcus seems to be very clued up with his stuff and thanks for all the replys guys. I've decided to lower the number of sets I do but keep the intensity (HIIT) and after my back and arms last night It felt like it was the first time I have ever workes out, the same feeling you get the first time LOL.

And taking time off to recover am I right in saying that you shouldn't lose gains if you maintain your diet?

[marcus300]

Yes Marcus seems to be very clued up with his stuff and thanks for all the replys guys. I've decided to lower the number of sets I do but keep the intensity (HIIT) and after my back and arms last night It felt like it was the first time I have ever workes out, the same feeling you get the first time LOL.

And taking time off to recover am I right in saying that you shouldn't lose gains if you maintain your diet?

If your interested in HIT you may benefit from my thread http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-l...ary%2A%2A.html please don't skip any pages the whole thread is full of information what will help give you the edge and bring your body to a whole new level.

[almostgone]

..^^^ absolutely agree. When I got back into lifting last year, I read for close to 2 weeks in my spare time, then reread, and then tried to keep up with these guys. The support, information, and camaraderie is phenomenal. Really great bunch of people.

[marcus300]

That makes alot of sense. Thanks marcus300

this may also help with your biceps progression

[DylWilmot]

Genius! Thanks Marcus this has given me some clarity I know what do now, let the gains begin

[marcus300]

Genius! Thanks Marcus this has given me some clarity I know what do now, let the gains begin

pleasure and let me know how you get on because you may need to adjust to suit your own body

[Wintermaul]

Overtraining seem to always(or very often) be the CNS being tired or overtrained. How will nutrition aid with this? Hypertrofi and muscles grow from protein and nutrition but does the CNS also or is it sufficient with just rest?
Because usually when we take a rest-period we doesnt use as much kcal as when we train heavy etc, so we really dont need all that kcal when we have a week off. But if the CNS requires like muscles a kcal-overload to grow there is no reason to back off kcal-instake in that off-week. Thoughts?

[Buster Brown]

Overtraining seem to always(or very often) be the CNS being tired or overtrained. How will nutrition aid with this? Hypertrofi and muscles grow from protein and nutrition but does the CNS also or is it sufficient with just rest? Because usually when we take a rest-period we doesnt use as much kcal as when we train heavy etc, so we really dont need all that kcal when we have a week off. But if the CNS requires like muscles a kcal-overload to grow there is no reason to back off kcal-instake in that off-week. Thoughts?

Calories will not repair your CNS..... I so wish that was the case. Rest is important that is why you need off days to recover.

[Docd187123]

A good read on CNS fatigue

How much can the CNS handle? [Stress] • Myosynthesis

[noon]

Good thread

[Bodacious]

X2 good read.

[tsarrast]

overtraining is definitely not a myth!!! Great thread, good reads!

[marcus300]

Calories will not repair your CNS..... I so wish that was the case. Rest is important that is why you need off days to recover.

^^^^ Buster again hit a very good point

[bigrich4]

Overtraining is real. But i think the way most people workout it wont happen. If youre doing tri's and bi's eod youre cool. I did legs 3 times a week but at different frequencies so i never felt sore or "overtraining" symptoms. Like day 3X5 at between 70-75% day was working up to a max and day 3 was ljke 50-60% and as many as i could do.
So i think if you are really doing just small muscles like arms youre fine.
Personally i have one "arm day" and just let the pullups and benching i do hit them as well. But try the arms like you said, the only way you lewrn best is trial and error.

[papersteroidguy]

Overtraining, in its initial structures is frequently unrecognizable as a restorative condition as no side effects may show up. The main signs may be slight declines in execution, wounds that never appear to recuperate, or an icy that just won't go away. It's the amassing of every last one of anxiety of work and preparing that add to these elements.

[Buster Brown]

Overtraining is def real. The problem is recognizing and then get out of the more is better mentality and truly back off. By not planning a maintenance period your gains will suffer and much time will be wasted.

[< <Samson> >]

Shit, I feel this now from work

I feel like I lift 7x a week & never feel recovered.


Oh well, at least there's more sauce. Lol

[RewardingLabor]

Great thread.
Have not faced tendonitis since I started taking a medicine to reduce uric acid. I slept for 16 hours yesterday without an issue.

As a person who is constantly flirting with overtraining and tendon overuse… please tell me more.

[Ashop]

DORIAN cleared that up quickly,,,hes a great bodybuilder and trainer.
I agree with exactly what he said. I train 3 x per week for 1 hour sessions
and I couldn't physically do anything more its so intense.

[BigMan65]

whats the secret to knowing your overtraining? Iv been doing 20-30 minute sessions lately, and Im still scared im pushing too far too often... mainly because the sorness is still there by the next bicep day, (biceps for example.)

like today i did
1 set 30 reps (this set takes like >1 minute to 2 minutes to complete due to slow form)
1 set 20 reps
1 set 10 reps

I did this first on straight bar (bench bar)
and I did it a second and final time seated alternating arm curls.

20 minutes tops, and it the burn was ridiculously brutal, or maybe im a cry baby.

But I can guarantee my bicep will still be sore if i massage it using decent pressure with my other hand come saturday, the next bicep day.

Is this normal?

[SonofBragi25]

This was a good read, but I'm still kind of confused about how much is too much. If some people go to the gym for 45min-1hr a day and run the risk of over training then why do some (actors training for a specific role, mma fighters, pro athletes, anybody else) even bother training x2 x3 a day? If over training is something that warrants constant attention and mindfulness, are they all just over doing it in the end?

[jackfrost88]

Interesting topic and it varies person to person. I always found that over training is possible but not in the sense of spending 2 hours in the gym vs. 1 hour. After a training block, say a heavy 4 week period, it is important to alternate to a lighter style of training for a period of time to let your body recover. If you always work up to a 95% max for 1-2 reps every workout for 4 months, you would definitely be overtraining. Now, if you did 95% of 1 max for a month then followed it up with another month of higher reps lower weight, your body could recover from the heavy stimulus.

Sort of the principle of "tapering" for athletes where you train extremely hard to the point of over training before competition then go super light for 1-2 weeks and then your performance is at its peak come competition time.

On a side note, the word over training is thrown around way to often and you would need to be going balls to the wall to experience it.

[SonofBragi25]

Thanks Jack, that makes a bit more sense now that you've broken it down.

[jackfrost88]

Thanks Jack, that makes a bit more sense now that you've broken it down.

Good

[Armykid93]

Over training is definitely real. Scientifically proven to exist. Anyone who says different is wrong. It happens when periods of over reaching are taken to far for to long and proper recovery protocol is not adhered to (proper sleep, nutrition, supplementation, and hydration) most people never actually get to the point of legitimate "overtraining", once your at that point it takes some time and work to recover.

It takes a very long time to actually reach "overtraining" 1 workout won't do it. A couple weeks of treating yourself like crap probably could but more often it happens after months.