posterior pelvic tilt when squatting

[Avi3510]

Just looking for some suggestions on where to start correcting the dreaded "butt wink" when I get deep into a squat. I have read that I should stop just before it happens, and not go any further down. But, I don't like that answer. I want to go as deep as possible. I have a desk job, so I imagine something in my hips is too tight from sitting so often. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Khazima]

Often it can relate to hamstring and lower back tightness or losing tightness at the bottom. Remember to keep your core tight with a slight arch in the low back while going into the squat. Best way to practice would be to cut depth and slowly go deeper as well as stretching/foam rolling said areas until you can start to squat lower and lower with no buttwink.

[Avi3510]

Thanks K. I heard it could also be weak hip flexors ? Read an article by Riptoe that covered some of it but not much detail as to how to correct it

[Buster Brown]

Thanks K. I heard it could also be weak hip flexors ? Read an article by Riptoe that covered some of it but not much detail as to how to correct it

Have you spent any time on that machine at the gym the girls always use that they sit in and open there legs or vice versa? It works those little hip adductors quite well. I usually stick with the one that starts with my legs closed and then you open them.

[Avi3510]

No I haven't. I will try that. Thanks for the help Buster.

[Docd187123]

The butt wink can be due to several things.

1) you're going too deep. You're right about not wanting to cut depth just bc but you need to assess your true depth. Is the crease in your shorts at the hips lower than the tops of your knees? If so you are parallel or lower. You don't need to go ass to grass if that is what you're doing. Going ass to grass for all but the most felxible will almost always cause the pelvic tilt.

2) lack of kinesthetic sense. You don't have the proper neuromuscular connection between your brain and lower lumbar muscles to keep them in lordotic extension. Someone watching you touching this area slightly to remind you sometimes works. Another option is a simple exercise. Lay on the ground on your chest. Put your hands behind your head and lift up your head and upper torso off the ground. This is maintaining kyphotic extension. Now hold that position while simultaneously trying to lift your legs and knees off the ground while keeping your legs straight. This is the lordotic curve and the feeling you should think of during the squat. Hold this position for several seconds, relax and repeat a few times. This helps you actively think about recruiting the necessary motor neurons to keep your low back extended.

3) excessive tightness in hamstrings, hips, pelvis, low back. Another reason you get butt wink is bc of excessively tight muscles. Use foam rolling, a lacrosse ball, an orbital buffer, dynamic stretching, trigger point therapy, etc to help with mobility.

4) Not keeping your chest up. This doesn't directly cause butt wink but can help lead to it. When you let your chest cave during the squat this can lead to a change in your back angle. If your back angle closes too much you'll get excessive rounding in the low back and lose extension.

5) one final cause I can think of is that in the worst case scenario, your back rounding is a last defense towards back health. On the bottom of the pelvis the hamstrings attach and pull when nearing full contraction. On the upper side of the pelvis are your low back muscles. These pull in he opposite direction to create equal forces on the pelvic area. Now for whatever reason you're getting the pelvic tilt it's your body's way of maintiaing back health bc if the hamstrings were to give out first it could lead to all that force transferring to your back which could damage your spine. By having your back give out first it helps ensure that the spine remains relatively safe. Think of it kind of like a fuse in your breaker box, the back rounding is like the breaker tripping to ensure the entire circuit doesn't overload.

[Avi3510]

Thanks doc. I have a feeling it is a combination of things. I will try to work on all. For #4, I read an article by mark riptoe that said nipples should point to the floor, which is the opposite of what you said. I have always done chest up but thought maybe I was doing it wrong. Any thoughts as to his philosophy? And for #5, what is the cause if it is #5? How to correct ? Thank you again.

[Buster Brown]

Thanks doc. I have a feeling it is a combination of things. I will try to work on all. For #4, I read an article by mark riptoe that said nipples should point to the floor, which is the opposite of what you said. I have always done chest up but thought maybe I was doing it wrong. Any thoughts as to his philosophy? And for #5, what is the cause if it is #5? How to correct ? Thank you again.

Doc gave you some great advice. I agree with #4....chest up, nips up. There are those who are back squatters and those that are leg squatters. Alot of people feel that by keeping yourself "postures up" your lower back is less "at risk" and your legs, hams and glutes are doing the work.

[NACH3]

More than likely its your hip flexors/Psoas muscle! Stretch that fvker as much as possible... B/c when your Psoas muscle is tight and you go to get it messaged (can be quite painful - but feels so good too)! Also, Doc pretty much laid out every possibility it can be... Great info Doc!!

[Avi3510]

Thanks a ton you guys. I guess I should have mentioned this in the original post but would this cause my lower back to feel like its on fire? Sometimes when squatting my lower back feels like its getting worked like crazy. To the point of wanting to lie down. Thanks again guys. I think overall I just need to stretch more.

[Buster Brown]

Thanks a ton you guys. I guess I should have mentioned this in the original post but would this cause my lower back to feel like its on fire? Sometimes when squatting my lower back feels like its getting worked like crazy. To the point of wanting to lie down. Thanks again guys. I think overall I just need to stretch more.

That would def cause your back to be on fire. Sounds like you have some technique stuff to work on and you need to give yourself some time to strengthen that lower back.

[Docd187123]

Thanks doc. I have a feeling it is a combination of things. I will try to work on all. For #4, I read an article by mark riptoe that said nipples should point to the floor, which is the opposite of what you said. I have always done chest up but thought maybe I was doing it wrong. Any thoughts as to his philosophy? And for #5, what is the cause if it is #5? How to correct ? Thank you again.

I've never seen the article you're talking about but during a squat it should be chest up. Don't hyperextended to keep it up high as possible but don't let it cave either.

Buster is on point. Just keep working the form and it will continue to get better.

You'd have to get stronger for number 5.

Are you talking about things like low back pumps? I find personally that the more closed my back angle is the more pumps I get. This is due to the low back pumps being caused by tight glutes and hams. What I do before lifting is take a lacrosse ball to the hamstrings and glutes for a few minutes. Do some static and dynamic stretching, and begin my warmups with just the bar. I still get pumps from time to time in which case I'll out the lacrosse ball in the ground and lay my glutes on it with all my body weight. It hurts like hell but eventually loosens me up again. At a PL meet I actually saw a guy use an orbital buffer used for car detailing, on his glutes and hams

[Avi3510]

Great. I know my hams are tight. For sure. What's the best stretch for glutes? The article I'm referring to is on **************. read it the other day.

[Avi3510]

Woops. Guess I can't post sites on here. I guessed that might happen. Its the ********* site.

[swolehead]

how far below 90° do you go

[Avi3510]

OK. Lol. I give up. Anyways it is crazy back pumps I experience.

[Avi3510]

Not much swole head. Actually right about 90.

[Docd187123]

Great. I know my hams are tight. For sure. What's the best stretch for glutes? The article I'm referring to is on **************. read it the other day.

To be honest I haven't given it much thought as to what would be a good stretch for glutes.

Typically when I get into the gym this is what I do:

1) put a lacrosse ball on one of the boxes/platforms the gym has. The kind you'd do box squats on or something. Use the lacrosse ball on the hamstrings for a few minutes.

2) voodoo floss both knees and do body weight squats with it on

3) voodoo floss my elbows

4) Lacrosse ball the glutes, low back, upper back. If I'm doing bench or press that day I'll also lacrosse ball pecs

5) high leg kicks or soldier kicks, whatever they're called as a dynamic stretch for hams

6) the frog stretch I think it's called for pelvis and hips

7) shoulder dislocations

And a few other things depending on what I'm doing that day or what's sore/lacking mobility.

[Avi3510]

Thanks again doc. I have a rumble roller, would that be sufficient as compared to the lacrosse ball? Seems it would. Also, what's voodoo floss? I need to do more of things like frog stretch. I know my groin is tight as hell too

[Buster Brown]

Another thing that may help you when you are squatting or deadlifting is to drive from your heals not your toes. By doing this it sorta forces good posture and keeping you from overusing your lower back.

[Docd187123]

Thanks again doc. I have a rumble roller, would that be sufficient as compared to the lacrosse ball? Seems it would. Also, what's voodoo floss? I need to do more of things like frog stretch. I know my groin is tight as hell too

It might or it might not idk. I like the lacrosse ball bc it's solid as hell and so small so the surface area is less than your rumble roller. Smaller surface area for a force to be applied to means a higher pressure exerted. How much of a difference it makes is anybody's guess.

Voodoo floss is like a giant rubber band you can use for mobility and recovery purposes. Look it up on rogue fitness and videos on how to use it by Dr. Kelly Starret on youtube. It works good for my tendinitis issues in my elbow and knee.

[Avi3510]

Awesome. Thanks again for reaching out. I'll check into all of it and post feedback on the process

[Avi3510]

Buster brown I always do that. Making sure to always activate the posterior chain. Thanks for the reminder.