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Thread: is strength relevant to muscle size?

  1. #1
    SOON2BESOME1 is offline New Member
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    is strength relevant to muscle size?

    i see some skinny guys lifting huge numbers and it really makes me wonder what is strength

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOON2BESOME1 View Post
    i see some skinny guys lifting huge numbers and it really makes me wonder what is strength
    There are a TON of variables involved to answer that question. Genetics, technique, bone length, etc. are all factors why the skinny Guy can be super strong.

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    ^^^ I agree with BB

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    What is your definition of "strength"? Lifting static objects? Lifting and tossing resisting humans around (wrestling etc)?

    It's all relative, you could take Johnny Jackson or whoever that is strong as an Ox and put them on a wrestling mat with a sub 200lb NCAA Div1 wrestler and they would be thrown around like a rag doll

    Some people for whatever reason (Buster Brown i'm sure touched on some of them) just are dense and extremely strong for their size, and it's not always visible either which is scary. Some dude looks like he never hit a weight rack in his life yet would throw you around at will, crazy.

    Then you also have your freaks of nature like Alexander Karelin

    is strength relevant to muscle size?-karelin_aleksandr.jpg
    ***No source checks!!!***

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerfaust View Post
    What is your definition of "strength"? Lifting static objects? Lifting and tossing resisting humans around (wrestling etc)?

    It's all relative, you could take Johnny Jackson or whoever that is strong as an Ox and put them on a wrestling mat with a sub 200lb NCAA Div1 wrestler and they would be thrown around like a rag doll

    Some people for whatever reason (Buster Brown i'm sure touched on some of them) just are dense and extremely strong for their size, and it's not always visible either which is scary. Some dude looks like he never hit a weight rack in his life yet would throw you around at will, crazy.

    Then you also have your freaks of nature like Alexander Karelin

    <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155076"/>
    Agreed.......he was def the "man"!

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    musclestack is offline Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerfaust View Post
    What is your definition of "strength"? Lifting static objects? Lifting and tossing resisting humans around (wrestling etc)?

    It's all relative, you could take Johnny Jackson or whoever that is strong as an Ox and put them on a wrestling mat with a sub 200lb NCAA Div1 wrestler and they would be thrown around like a rag doll

    Some people for whatever reason (Buster Brown i'm sure touched on some of them) just are dense and extremely strong for their size, and it's not always visible either which is scary. Some dude looks like he never hit a weight rack in his life yet would throw you around at will, crazy.

    Then you also have your freaks of nature like Alexander Karelin

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As far as wrestling goes, I believe that has more to do with technique and leverage. I used to wrestle around with a guy my age back in the day who I outweighed by a good 30-40 pounds. He wasn't nearly as strong as me, but he had years and years of wrestling experience. I threw him around much more than he did me, but due to his skill level, we were pretty evenly matched as far as wrestling went. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't pin him!! But then again, he never pinned me either...

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    To take it one step further there are some big cats out there who technically are weak as shit. This totally blows me away when I see this. There is a Guy in my gym who weighs 275 and is stacked yet it see him doing working sets of 325 for 3 on the flat bench and struggling. I could go on and on but that's not the point. I learned something early on in boxing and it always stuck with me. Never underestimate anyone.....especially if you think they can't hang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SOON2BESOME1 View Post
    i see some skinny guys lifting huge numbers and it really makes me wonder what is strength
    Tendon strength plays a big part in this as well as muscle attachment points which is determined by genetics. Some of those skinny guys will surprise you with the amount of weight they can lift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

    Tendon strength plays a big part in this as well as muscle attachment points which is determined by genetics. Some of those skinny guys will surprise you with the amount of weight they can lift.
    That's a good point.....nothing you can do about attachment sites. Bone length is also critical. Shorter guys with a wider base tend to be better squatters then guys with longer legs and are narrower who tend to be more "leg squatters ".

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    Yeah, it's def interesting to see

    I see straight newbs come in the gym & bench 225 or 275


    Yet, some(most) are the opposite


    But, all look the same - Similar size & shape. . . . . . . Me being the "size" that I am, I am still super weak for my size. My muscle all around always seemed hollow & lack density. It's hard to describe, but that's how I see it. I have always had size, but it was just mush. It's getting better of course - but still, I am weak to weight. I am getting close to benching triple plates finnaly - But, I weigh almost 220 @ about 10% Bf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by < <Samson> > View Post
    Yeah, it's def interesting to see

    I see straight newbs come in the gym & bench 225 or 275

    Yet, some(most) are the opposite

    But, all look the same - Similar size & shape. . . . . . . Me being the "size" that I am, I am still super weak for my size. My muscle all around always seemed hollow & lack density. It's hard to describe, but that's how I see it. I have always had size, but it was just mush. It's getting better of course - but still, I am weak to weight. I am getting close to benching triple plates finnaly - But, I weigh almost 220 @ about 10% Bf.
    Why not do some PL training for a cycle. You will just be a stronger BB and just get better. Worth looking into.....and you will get your strength in line with your size.

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    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown View Post
    Why not do some PL training for a cycle. You will just be a stronger BB and just get better. Worth looking into.....and you will get your strength in line with your size.
    Very very much this^^^. High intensity training, like in PL, will increase the muscle tonus resulting in significantly harder muscles.

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    cns is more responsible for strength, but yes if you have more muscles the more motor unit cns can use to move/lift objects

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    Short answer no. I say this from personal experience. I consider myself a decent size 6' 200 lbs, not huge by any means. Now i probably can bench 225 twice but i can squat 450 for reps. Its like i have genetically strong/ big legs. I can get upper body to grow but strength goes up very slowly, figure that out.

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    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaz915 View Post
    Short answer no. I say this from personal experience. I consider myself a decent size 6' 200 lbs, not huge by any means. Now i probably can bench 225 twice but i can squat 450 for reps. Its like i have genetically strong/ big legs. I can get upper body to grow but strength goes up very slowly, figure that out.
    Simple.....your leverages for bench press strength are not optimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docd187123 View Post

    Simple.....your leverages for bench press strength are not optimal.
    This is true as stated .......maybe with some technique tweaking you could improve and maximize what you to work with.

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    Size do not mean strenght.

    strenght do not mean size.

    Being bigger than someone dont makes you stronger.

    HOWEVER, being bigger than you were, mean that you are stronger(obviously if your form just go down the toilet your strengh will sucks...).

    more muscle on the same individual will always mean more potentiel strenght.
    More strenght on the same individual will always mean more size.
    if every other variable stay the same.

    strenght is partly due to the muscle itself, bigger fiber can generate more force.
    Nervous control, you get better at recruting muscle fiber.
    Technique, allow you to use the right muscle to execute the task.
    Mental, and alertness affext dramaticly all your lift.
    Last edited by qscgugcsq; 02-10-2015 at 06:24 PM.

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    skaz915 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown View Post
    This is true as stated .......maybe with some technique tweaking you could improve and maximize what you to work with.
    Can you elaborate on this please? Srs

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    JohnnyJim is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOON2BESOME1 View Post
    i see some skinny guys lifting huge numbers and it really makes me wonder what is strength
    I've always wanted to comment in this thread but never did, because this is a very hard question to answer...

    You see in powerlifting and weightlifting that the further up the dude is with weight class, the stronger he gets.

    At the same time, you see swole guys who can barely bench 315.



    Like Buster Brown said, TON of variables...........

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    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyJim View Post
    I've always wanted to comment in this thread but never did, because this is a very hard question to answer...

    You see in powerlifting and weightlifting that the further up the dude is with weight class, the stronger he gets.

    At the same time, you see swole guys who can barely bench 315.



    Like Buster Brown said, TON of variables...........
    Strength and size are related to each other and influence one another but strength is also about optimizing CNS/neural motor recruitment. Strength is also dependent on increasing the amount of contractile proteins in the muscle. All things being equal, the person with more lbm will be stronger or at the very least have the capability to be stronger.

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    Buster Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaz915 View Post

    Can you elaborate on this please? Srs
    If you want to have a better bench then you need to break the exercise down like a PL. They train lifts and really break things down and are able to pinpoint there weaknesses.

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    papersteroidguy is offline New Member
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    Yes, strength is relevant to muscle size..

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    Quote Originally Posted by papersteroidguy View Post
    Yes, strength is relevant to muscle size..
    If you read the whole thread you would see that strength is not relevant to muscle size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Brown
    If you read the whole thread you would see that strength is not relevant to muscle size.
    I didn't read the whole thread but I lost strength as I lost weight (fat).

    there are girls much heavier (more fat) that can push more weight then me so I too think there are more then 2 variables involved.

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    Docd187123 is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread but I lost strength as I lost weight (fat).

    there are girls much heavier (more fat) that can push more weight then me so I too think there are more then 2 variables involved.
    Strength will typically go down during periods of undereating. There are exceptions but generally this is the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docd187123
    Strength will typically go down during periods of undereating. There are exceptions but generally this is the case.
    That was my case. I was cutting and lost strength but did gain some back with training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Docd187123 View Post

    Strength will typically go down during periods of undereating. There are exceptions but generally this is the case.
    Very true. Good quality food and lots of it are anabolic to building muscle and building strength.
    Docd187123 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat View Post
    That was my case. I was cutting and lost strength but did gain some back with training.
    My least favorite part of dropping weight, losing strength.....well that and not being able to eat as much as I want haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGymRat View Post

    I didn't read the whole thread but I lost strength as I lost weight (fat).

    there are girls much heavier (more fat) that can push more weight then me so I too think there are more then 2 variables involved.
    Looks like you already got some good feedback and I agree in that your cutting led to your strength loss. Even with the glycogen being depleted from your cut would be enough to make you start losing strength. And yes, there are MANY variables.

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