Are Tranquilizers Holding Me Back ?

Hi there guys, I'm writing because I'm in need of your expert opinion and advice . I'm on 5mg daily of Lexapro for anxiety and post traumatic stress , and 0.5mg~1mg of Xanax/Halcion nightly for insomnia related to the ptsd . If shit really hits the fan I'm allowed to take 1mg of klonopin , but that's rare . My doctor and I are hoping the lexapro will eventually kick in a few weeks and control the ptsd anxiety to the point where I won't need benzodiazepines anymore for sleep .

I'm 5'11 and 240lbs and 25% bf and really, really, hate myself and would love to run a test/deca recomp cycle and get in reasonable shape by early fall . (Take note of how I said "love to" and not "currently running" .) If I'm taking benzodiazepines for sleep nightly am I doomed from gaining more muscle mass and leaning out at a reasonable rate ? I've heard the sleep they produce isn't natural and that those drugs have a negative impact on physiques and kill progress in the gym . Thank you for your help in advance and I wish you well this summer .

If your using them properly and not abusing them I doubt they will hurt your gains. Having insomnia and not sleeping on the other hand can KILL gains.

I never abuse my medications, however am I worried about the suppression of deep slow wave stage 3 & 4 sleep from using benzodiazepines .

Benzos aren't intendend for long-term management of insomnia, but hopefully the escilatolopram with help with that. Don't quit them cold turkey, try to taper off dosage first.

No you are not "doomed", and this isn't really about gains but your very health. Note that although benzos indeed affect sleep stages this is not a suppression, but only a reduction of some percent points. On the other hand, what will surely hinder body composition (and mind health too) is unmanaged insomnia.

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and really, really, hate myself

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You got a problem there. Self-contempt won't help in the gym, as anywhere else. Your anxienty in fact is evident among the lines.


Why are you asking this anyway. Go hit the gym (because you LOVE, and not hate yourself) and don't over-dramatize about circumstances, just do it. You (temporary) need the medications anyway, so why bother?

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Benzos aren't intendend for long-term management of insomnia, but hopefully the escilatolopram with help with that. Don't quit them cold turkey, try to taper off dosage first.

No you are not "doomed", and this isn't really about gains but your very health. Note that although benzos indeed affect sleep stages this is not a suppression, but only a reduction of some percent points. On the other hand, what will surely hinder body composition (and mind health too) is unmanaged insomnia.



You got a problem there. Self-contempt won't help in the gym, as anywhere else. Your anxienty in fact is evident among the lines.


Why are you asking this anyway. Go hit the gym (because you LOVE, and not hate yourself) and don't over-dramatize about circumstances, just do it. You (temporary) need the medications anyway, so why bother?

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Thanks for weighing, all great points . However , if my restorative slow wave sleep is being reduced , should I not train as hard in the gym to compensate, since my body won't be able to recover as well from the workouts ?

i was on the same meds for the same issues. like someone said, if you dont abuse them and take them as prescribed. you'll be fine. your sleep will eventually get better. mines not always the same but i never hold back in the gym. i always give it my all and sometimes it helps me sleep. (i usually train at night)

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Originally Posted by pitweiler

i was on the same meds for the same issues. like someone said, if you dont abuse them and take them as prescribed. you'll be fine. your sleep will eventually get better. mines not always the same but i never hold back in the gym. i always give it my all and sometimes it helps me sleep. (i usually train at night)

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thanks for your optimistic input . Anyways. . . .

1mg of Xanax
2mg Klonopin
0.5mg Halcion (chlorinated xanax for sleep)

Isn't cutting it for sleep . Z-drugs like ambien are very weak to me , but I seem to have lowered anxiety from the benzos and Lexapro 5mg but not enough to where I don't give a fuck about my abusive awful college/family life and can just pass out like a normal fucking human being . I like bizzaro said, I really do love myself and want to better my self mentally and especially get huge and maybe with a flat belly one day in the gym . However this sleep non sense is crippling any chance I have at even the *thought* of running a cycle or , fuck just getting in some sort of shape .

Before all those pills , zyprexa 1.25mg was my go to . Perfect sleep , massive appetite (did gain quite the gut though), bench went from 225 for 12 with good form to 275 for 7 in just 4 weeks on a legal pro hormone called "xtreme DMZ". Problemo is that fast forward a year and I now need 20mgs of the maximum full blown schizophrenia dose to get some broken sleep , and I'm destroyed and pathetically useless the next day (and workouts of course suck) .

I'm going to ask the doctor to add in Lyrica because I heard it aids in anxiety and ptsd, and oh heavens I'll even ask for some seroquel (now I'm gonna be pregnant with triplets already at 260 and only benching 225 for 12, and deading 405 for 10. . . just in time for summer :/) I'm seeing the Dr. Today.

Please guys weigh in I feel like I'm trapped and up the creek here . . . .

The benzos aren't holding you back, but the anxiety will. Forget about steroids until you have your psych issues under control.

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Originally Posted by Bonaparte

The benzos aren't holding you back, but the anxiety will. Forget about steroids until you have your psych issues under control.

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What do you mean by under control ? Medication-free, or symptom free ? I've been struggling with the trauma/abuse for for 3 years . . . I'm really bummed out that you're saying I pretty much have a prison sentence to never get reasonably in shape :/ .

I went to the Dr. yesterday and she still is keeping me on lexapro 5mg (which is helping), but I'm going to be taking 100-200mg of seroquel a night for sleep . I was still given a refill on the 1mg xanax, 2mg klonopin, and 0.5mg Halcion , but those are suppost to be just as needed now since the seroquel is suppost to used nightly for sleep .

If the seroquel and lexapro work out and keep me feeling safe/calm will I ever have a chance to get in shape ? I've heard the weight gain is pretty bad on seroquel and it still messes with your sleep architecture (not as bad as benzos though) .

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

What do you mean by under control ? Medication-free, or symptom free ? I've been struggling with the trauma/abuse for for 3 years . . . I'm really bummed out that you're saying I pretty much have a prison sentence to never get reasonably in shape :/ .

I went to the Dr. yesterday and she still is keeping me on lexapro 5mg (which is helping), but I'm going to be taking 100-200mg of seroquel a night for sleep . I was still given a refill on the 1mg xanax, 2mg klonopin, and 0.5mg Halcion , but those are suppost to be just as needed now since the seroquel is suppost to used nightly for sleep .

If the seroquel and lexapro work out and keep me feeling safe/calm will I ever have a chance to get in shape ? I've heard the weight gain is pretty bad on seroquel and it still messes with your sleep architecture (not as bad as benzos though) .

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Your doc is a butcher. Prescribing quetiapine for sleeping is indicative of BAD clinical practice.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Your doc is a butcher. Prescribing quetiapine for sleeping is indicative of BAD clinical practice.

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Agreed. Either that or its not only a sleeping problem...

For the OP, plenty of ppl, in fact most ppl, get in shape without steroids, I did for many years. You dont need steroids to get in shape.

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Agreed. Either that or its not only a sleeping problem...

For the OP, plenty of ppl, in fact most ppl, get in shape without steroids, I did for many years. You dont need steroids to get in shape.

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I have anxiety and ptsd from a near death experience/abuse growing up which produces the hypervigilance and insomnia . and by in shape, I mean I wanna be able to bench at least 315 for 5 with for a few sets and have a flat belly .

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

I have anxiety and ptsd from a near death experience/abuse growing up which produces the hypervigilance and insomnia . and by in shape, I mean I wanna be able to bench at least 315 for 5 with for a few sets and have a flat belly .

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Not to be a dick but it sounds like you need to see a good psychiatrist.

You may want to consult with another physician. Benzodiazepines are not used (long term) for sleep.

One thing you can try, is to take the Benzo earlier in the evening a few hours before you go to sleep, rather than right at bedtime. This may help with the initial lethargy in the morning. But be sure to pass this by your physician first.

Also, if it's any comfort to you at all, there are many many others that are going through similar or worse situation that you are facing right now. So, you're not alone and there is hope.

I know you're probably not an MD, but what would you do if your in my shoes ? Stay on the benzos nightly for anxiety/ptsd driven insomnia until the lexapro kicks in ? My worry is that the lexapro could take a month or two to control (IF it does) the nighttime anxiety and then I have the annoyance of tapering off the halcion klonopin and xanax . . .assuming my tolerance hasn't increased even further .

also why's the seroquel such a bad choice ? The weight gain ? The antipsychotic class ?

I know this isn't a psych support forum but this is the only place where I could find intelligent fitness minded people who might understand what I'm going through with this very difficult/frustrating situation . Thank you seriously everyone for helping me muddle through this and for your advice and help .

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Your doc is a butcher. Prescribing quetiapine for sleeping is indicative of BAD clinical practice.

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I know you're probably not an MD, but what would you do if your in my shoes ? Stay on the benzos nightly for anxiety/ptsd driven insomnia until the lexapro kicks in ? My worry is that the lexapro could take a month or two to control (IF it does) the nighttime anxiety and then I have the annoyance of tapering off the halcion klonopin and xanax . . .assuming my tolerance hasn't increased even further .

also why's the seroquel such a bad choice ? The weight gain ? The antipsychotic class ?

I know this isn't a psych support forum but this is the only place where I could find intelligent fitness minded people who might understand what I'm going through with this very difficult/frustrating situation . Thank you seriously everyone for helping me muddle through this and for your advice and help .

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Originally Posted by Mp859

Not to be a dick but it sounds like you need to see a good psychiatrist.

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You just care and are being honest . Sadly, That's like finding a car that runs on water but I'll be searching for one today . . .

What is your doc specialized in? My advise would be to consult another professional.

Anyway, talk to whomever is treating you about tapering the benzos. I'd start with the klonopin first.

She's a PhD psychiatric nurse practioner

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Originally Posted by Scabtree

You may want to consult with another physician. Benzodiazepines are not used (long term) for sleep.

One thing you can try, is to take the Benzo earlier in the evening a few hours before you go to sleep, rather than right at bedtime. This may help with the initial lethargy in the morning. But be sure to pass this by your physician first.

Also, if it's any comfort to you at all, there are many many others that are going through similar or worse situation that you are facing right now. So, you're not alone and there is hope.

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Thanks that really means alot, it just majorly sucks because one these pills my gains aren't 100% and I feel these stupid issues are screwing up my progress towards my physique goals . (which is a big deal to me)

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

She's a PhD psychiatric nurse practioner

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There's your problem... Find an MD!!

And your lexapro dose is very low... I started on this and it's helped me - but I went from 5mgs to 15mgs(higher end dose) and feel much more stable(as in anxiety) I too, am prescribed klonopin 2mgs x3/daily PRN(as needed) but my intake of benzos went down from the lexapro as well... Hang In there and I'd think you should look into a new Psychiatrist, too! GL

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Originally Posted by NACH3

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There's your problem... Find an MD!!

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This.

Your doc is not providing you with the information and help that they are supposed to. I suggest you talk to someone heavily recommended and far more informed

The benzodiazpenes are called minor tranquillisers. The likes of olanzapine(zyprexa),seroquel(quentiapine) are the major ones.

I've been sectioned twice. Police came out to get me the first time. Second time I was transferred from prison. I'm doing a lot better now thankfully.

I've been on escitalopram for the past 8 months or so at the max dose (20mg), but right now I'm doing a 7-week titration off it (currently at 12.5mg).

At one point I think I was on 20mg of zyprexa(olanzapine) per day. That stuff's a sledge hammer.

I know exactly what I'd do if I were you, however I'm not a medical professional of any kind. Just speaking from my own personal past experience being in and out of the loonie bin:

* Crank the escitalopram right up to 20mg. This will make a lot of stuff come up... you'll re-live your childhood every time you walk on the threadmill
* Titrate off all tranquilisers over 30 days, but continue on the escitalopram at max dose.
* Remain on the escitalopram at max dose for 6 months to a year.
* Most importantly of all, put your life on pause for 10 days. Check this out I've done it twice: Vipassana Meditation

The max dose of escitalopram will make all your other problems go away while you deal with your shit, but don't quote me on that. That's the idea.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Your doc is a butcher. Prescribing quetiapine for sleeping is indicative of BAD clinical practice.

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Not totally sure about that..... it's not uncommon at all to walk around a psych ward and see quite a few prescribed the likes of seroquel or zyprexa to put them to sleep.......... however these people have likely been prescribed Zopiclone/Zolpidem for months or years and they no longer work.

Oh also I forgot to mention something:

If you're gonna to take Tren, then at least be a gentleman about it and put a down-payment on your funeral.

Trenbolone + PsychMeds = The Zombie Apocalypse

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Originally Posted by KimboHalfSlice

Not totally sure about that..... it's not uncommon at all to walk around a psych ward and see quite a few prescribed the likes of seroquel or zyprexa to put them to sleep.......... however these people have likely been prescribed Zopiclone/Zolpidem for months or years and they no longer work.

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These drugs obviously have their place in selected patients, but I often see docs abusing them when not needed.

Psych wards? In Italy we had these OPG (psychiatric jails) shutdown this year because they looked like some lager from soviet union and human rights didn't apply there.

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If you're gonna to take Tren, then at least be a gentleman about it and put a down-payment on your funeral.

Trenbolone + PsychMeds = The Zombie Apocalypse

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Is this directed to me?

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Is this directed to me?

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Nope. Directed at the OP and anyone considering steroids while on loonie toon medication

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Psych wards? In Italy we had these OPG (psychiatric jails) shutdown this year because they looked like some lager from soviet union and human rights didn't apply there.

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We have one in Ireland called "Dundrum". Dundrum is actually the name of the entire area but the lunatic assylum simply gets called Dundrum.

I was held on remand in the padded cell in Cloverhill Prison and I smeered it with shit....... then they came in and cleaned it........... then I smeered it with shit again..... then they moved me out to a loonie ward in a normal medical hospital nearby.

Next time I saw my original psychiatrist, he simply walked into the room with my file (about the weight of a phone book by this stage), fucked it on the table and goes "You're going to kill yourself"....... to which I answered "Is that a self-fulfilling prophecy?"........ to which he answered "No......... You're lucky they didn't put you in Dundrum" and he walked out of the room.

My original psychiatrist was one of those folk who like to to tell junkies that they're bipolar so that he can send them away with tranquillisers and hope that they don't come back. Unfortunately I came back. Time and time again. Then with self-inflicted injuries. It was only years later that I saw another psychiatrist who overruled his misdiagnosis. I'm told that this happens a lot in the United States of America.

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience.

What is your personal reaction to AAS (particularly tren)? I'm curious. Do they significantly worsen your psychiatric symptoms (assuming you notice any)?

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

Thanks for sharing your valuable experience.

What is your personal reaction to AAS (particularly tren)? I'm curious. Do they significantly worsen your psychiatric symptoms (assuming you notice any)?

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Serious deep-routed issues stemming from childhood + Anabolic & Androgenic Steroids = Suicide

If not Suicide then you're at least going to get an open verdict.... the coroner will probably write "No signs of deliberate overdose however blood levels were well in excess of therapeutic or even functional range"

That's if you don't semi-accidentally crash your car. Eight times. Or put your elbow thru a glass window. Three times. Or inject yourself vodka to see if it hits your quicker.

I suggest you fuck off to the monks for 10 days before making important decisions at all whatsoever in life.

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

Hi there guys, I'm writing because I'm in need of your expert opinion and advice . I'm on 5mg daily of Lexapro for anxiety and post traumatic stress , and 0.5mg~1mg of Xanax/Halcion nightly for insomnia related to the ptsd . If shit really hits the fan I'm allowed to take 1mg of klonopin , but that's rare . My doctor and I are hoping the lexapro will eventually kick in a few weeks and control the ptsd anxiety to the point where I won't need benzodiazepines anymore for sleep .

I'm 5'11 and 240lbs and 25% bf and really, really, hate myself and would love to run a test/deca recomp cycle and get in reasonable shape by early fall . (Take note of how I said "love to" and not "currently running" .) If I'm taking benzodiazepines for sleep nightly am I doomed from gaining more muscle mass and leaning out at a reasonable rate ? I've heard the sleep they produce isn't natural and that those drugs have a negative impact on physiques and kill progress in the gym . Thank you for your help in advance and I wish you well this summer .

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I have no idea about the science of them meds effecting gains but I know tht if I was on Xanax etc. (plus I don't believe in anything tht changes your brain chemistry. Etc I.e anti depressants ) but if I were on Xanax etc. I would not have the intensity or the drive tht i have when I'm totally pure and clean just running off of my motivation. I couldn't even workout if I took a pain killer. Even if tht pin killer gave me energy. It just dulled no fuzzed me out

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Originally Posted by Marsoc

I have no idea about the science of them meds effecting gains but I know tht if I was on Xanax etc. (plus I don't believe in anything tht changes your brain chemistry. Etc I.e anti depressants ) but if I were on Xanax etc. I would not have the intensity or the drive tht i have when I'm totally pure and clean just running off of my motivation. I couldn't even workout if I took a pain killer. Even if tht pin killer gave me energy. It just dulled no fuzzed me out

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If you're on psych meds, making gains is the least of your worries.

To anyone who is reading this post right now.............. When you were 10 years of age still in school..... did you ever imagine that you'd be on psychiatric medication at the age you are now?

Nobody answers yes to that question.

Let's drop the psychiatric codswallop though. What we're really talking about here is having issues. Maybe your father was an alcoholic. Maybe your dog died. Maybe your friend had cancer. Maybe your mother had a stroke.

If you've been hit with these sledgehammers in life, then go ahead take enough steroids to make them go away. I did it for years. Ended up in the loonie bin. Twice.

You need quiet time. I suggest you fuck off to the monks for 10 days. www.dhamma.org

Update:

First off thanks everybody for weighing with your thoughtful comments , advice and support . I've been off all medications for 90 days and feel relatively crappy/anxious . My biggest issue is sleeping ~4 hours a night while trying my best to remain calm and accept the situation .

On Tuesday the latest (still waiting for the Dr.'s office to phone in the refills) I'll start taking the Lexapro 10mg again along with a 2mg PRN Klonopin and 30mg Restoril for sleep until Lexapro hopefully halts the needless nighttime insomnia in a few weeks.

I've never had the Dr. increase the lexapro as some other senior members have suggested nor do I feel I've been on it long enough as suggested either by other members for it to completely resolve my GAD issues . I'll keep you all updated and thank you for your concern and support .

Also down to 225lbs .

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

Update:

First off thanks everybody for weighing with your thoughtful comments , advice and support . I've been off all medications for 90 days and feel relatively crappy/anxious . My biggest issue is sleeping ~4 hours a night while trying my best to remain calm and accept the situation .

On Tuesday the latest (still waiting for the Dr.'s office to phone in the refills) I'll start taking the Lexapro 10mg again along with a 2mg PRN Klonopin and 30mg Restoril for sleep until Lexapro hopefully halts the needless nighttime insomnia in a few weeks.

I've never had the Dr. increase the lexapro as some other senior members have suggested nor do I feel I've been on it long enough as suggested either by other members for it to completely resolve my GAD issues . I'll keep you all updated and thank you for your concern and support .

Also down to 225lbs .

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I can fill 15 pages of forum thread explaining this.

You being prescribed one for this. One for what that causes, and one for what that one causes.

Klonopin or Xanax or valium (benzo)

Is all you need for anxiety. Or sleep, or what ever.

If 2mg clonopin don't help your ass go to sleep, then restoril won't.

Restoril, is temazepam, it a very very weak version of a real benzo, its doing nothing for you

A 30mg restorill, is maybe a 1/4 as potent as a 1mg klonopin

Lexapro. Eek. Anti d's are worse than the symptoms they mask.

And masking is what they do, your underlying 'disease' gets more and more out of control and comfortable, while you don't feel it growing, till you stop the meds, and realize.
"Holy crap, I'm worse without it"

Its because while you turned off you feelings parts of your brain while taking the pills, the depression just grows worse, because your not taught proper coping mechanism to deal with life on life's terms

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Originally Posted by pudgeball

Hi there guys, I'm writing because I'm in need of your expert opinion and advice . I'm on 5mg daily of Lexapro for anxiety and post traumatic stress , and 0.5mg~1mg of Xanax/Halcion nightly for insomnia related to the ptsd . If shit really hits the fan I'm allowed to take 1mg of klonopin , but that's rare . My doctor and I are hoping the lexapro will eventually kick in a few weeks and control the ptsd anxiety to the point where I won't need benzodiazepines anymore for sleep .

I'm 5'11 and 240lbs and 25% bf and really, really, hate myself and would love to run a test/deca recomp cycle and get in reasonable shape by early fall . (Take note of how I said "love to" and not "currently running" .) If I'm taking benzodiazepines for sleep nightly am I doomed from gaining more muscle mass and leaning out at a reasonable rate ? I've heard the sleep they produce isn't natural and that those drugs have a negative impact on physiques and kill progress in the gym . Thank you for your help in advance and I wish you well this summer .

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Bro so u get max results i would try to get down to a lot lower bf % naturally. Or your natural best before u try roids. There is t a magic pill or anything that will get U in shape. It takes intense training and proper diet. Ur money will go to waste for the most part. And u should get acquainted with training first so u don't hurt yourself from any strength gains when the rest of your body isn't ready. I never cycled but I'm considering my first vet hopefully soon God willing. I'm 205 14% bf as of yesterday. That's from being 220lbs efficient dropping down to 165 dope diet lol. Horrible I know. But I gained 40lbs in the past 4 months ..so I'm trying to be decently natural healthy for I boost my performance cuz I want to see what I really got
And o yeah I forgot To answer your question becuae I'm a blabber mouth lol. But I think the xanax will hold me back so much. I need to be psyched and pumped before my intense training. I can't be sedated becuase the intensity won't be there. ..

Took my Lexapro 10mg as ordered yesterday . Today and took 1mg of klonopin , 0.5mg of halcion and a 30mg restoril last night around 11:50 pm . Took another morning lexapro and Attempted to workout today at 1:20pm ish and all my muscles were so relaxed doing a shoulder press of 135 standing for 2 reps felt quite awkward and very heavy . Thus , I gave up and went home . Hopefully by tonight the tranquilizers will not be exerting their effect and I can do a proper workout .

Valium is prescribed for muscle spasms sometimes and is effective in that regard. I can't imagine lifting on it. Every benzodiazepine is just a metabolite (by product) of valium that occurs when your liver processes it - we have isolated the metabolites and produced them to make xanax, ativan, etc. Some stay in your body much longer than others. If I were going to try to lift on them would probably not being doing heavy lifts for sure. But working out can be incredibly therapeutic and increase endorphin release and have other benefits so would not discourage someone from working out.
The deal is, if you see a psychiatrist or NP (funny how they can't make it to med school, become nurses, get a phd and now they are magically doctors - wouldn't use one myself and I work in the medical profession) you are going to get medications. That's what they do. Psychologists don't prescribe but try to find effective ways of changing thought and behavior patterns.
EMDR is a therapy that is proven to work well in some people with PTSD. Might be worth a go.

Definitely wish you good luck moving forward.

I was on 30mg Temazepam (restoril) each night for sleep, and 2mg of clonazepam (klonopin) a day for anxiety, for years. I wasn't working out the whole time, but near the end of my use I started working out, and the gains were still plentiful. You SHOULD be good bud!

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Originally Posted by Scuba Greaves

I was on 30mg Temazepam (restoril) each night for sleep, and 2mg of clonazepam (klonopin) a day for anxiety, for years. I wasn't working out the whole time, but near the end of my use I started working out, and the gains were still plentiful. You SHOULD be good bud!

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Now that school is a little less crazy, i have gotten back into the gym and started to lift and do a body recomp. i have noticed I am making gains (I benched 275 for 5555 last week) yet they aren't nearly as good as when I was medication free. I'm currently taking 7.5mg Zyprexa and 2mg klonopin at night for sleep .

I'll keep you guys posted and I am going to talk with my HCP about a plan to perhaps taper off these medications . I have been going to therapy 2x a week and a group run by the same therapist for college kids at my school once a week .

Thank you all for your assistance