Rear delt help, especialy my injured side

Hey guys

My delts need improving, which im working on, my rear delts are struggling like hell, no matter what back//shoulder machine or DB exercise i try or even cable i cant get growth.

My back in my opinion is good and thick but can i hell get the rear delt to get going, i mean its there a little but for a steroid user, imo its pretty fvcking pathetic

My right shoulded/delt and read delt can go for it in terms of lat raise, shoulder press, military press and some rear delt work

However my left fvcking burns with pain even with light weight.

I came off a bmx 6 years ago and landed on my left shoulder and my collar bone can permanently stick out unless i force it in, after my injury i was rushed through a busy hospital (NHS UK) and popped in a sling, i have a lump in my collar bone and permanent knots in my back like something is trying to compensate the left shoulder/rotator cuff

And when i train this left shoulder/rotator cuff its so painful with even light weight, extreme painful pump where i have to sit down and take the weight of my left arm and shoulder to ease the discomfort, my left romboids also knot because of it, sometimes
sleeping with my weight on this side is also uncomfortable

I also can get pops and clicks when training the left delt and left side of my back, it isnt painful but doesnt sound nice

I believe the hospital should have operated or plated and pinned this area but they were so busy they put me in a sling and sent me home

Its been 6 years or more and i dont really want to go back and get surgery and lose gym time but i also dont want to struggle with the pain of working delts (left side especialy)

Do i tough it up and keep training and putting up with the pain or request operation?

MRI of the shoulder?

I do my rear felt flys at the end of my shoulder session so they are a little worn out from the behind head military's etc. bent over rear dealt flys. Drop sets usually. Can't use a lot of weight though. Or cable are cool to keep that tension all the way

Rear delt muscle fibers run at an angle, IMO the most optimal exercise is rear delt cable flys positioning the cables at the top and coming down at an angle. This angle perfectly parallels the fibers. Additionally the resistance curve is inverted allowing for perfect paring of the strength curve. The cables also allow for constant resistance. Overall win win win. This is the only exercise I do to specifically targeting the rear delts. Here is video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAnkS4u8mN0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hellomycognomen

Rear delt muscle fibers run at an angle, IMO the most optimal exercise is rear delt cable flys positioning the cables at the top and coming down at an angle. This angle perfectly parallels the fibers. Additionally the resistance curve is inverted allowing for perfect paring of the strength curve. The cables also allow for constant resistance. Overall win win win. This is the only exercise I do to specifically targeting the rear delts. Here is video:

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAnkS4u8mN0

---

Thanks dude. I'm going to try it from up high. I always did bent over or face down on an incline ..I focus on using mg rear delt to lift. I'll have to research the mechanics of the rest dealt. Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Thanks dude. I'm going to try it from up high. I always did bent over or face down on an incline ..I focus on using mg rear delt to lift. I'll have to research the mechanics of the rest dealt. Thanks

---

Bodybuilding mechanics and the physics of an exercise are paramount to optimizing muscle development. Some exercises are not worth even doing when analyzing their risk/reward.
When you are young its no big deal but as we age the wear and tear adds up bigtime.

Here is a great video from Doug Brignole a biomechanics expert. -Cheers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsaUOhv-t4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Thanks dude. I'm going to try it from up high. I always did bent over or face down on an incline ..I focus on using mg rear delt to lift. I'll have to research the mechanics of the rest dealt. Thanks

---

I've had the surgery and done the rehab....1 year. I suggest u you tube, or google rehab exercises for the rear delt. you can isolate it with as little weight as 10lbs.
This injury is common amoung weight lifters because their are small muscles that never get trained by behind the neck press and later raises, so in turn actually cant compensate for.......just google it bro.

Don't mean to be short, I just don't feel like typing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hellomycognomen

Bodybuilding mechanics and the physics of an exercise are paramount to optimizing muscle development. Some exercises are not worth even doing when analyzing their risk/reward.
When you are young its no big deal but as we age the wear and tear adds up bigtime.

Here is a great video from Doug Brignole a biomechanics expert. -Cheers


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIsaUOhv-t4

---

Didn't watch it all before I replied here. But the medicine ball thing nd how there's is no opposing resistance and holding it out in front works bicep mainly well I hold the bill against my body somewhat if I do them which I don't really. I have big obliques. But the opposing force is not the actual weight resistance it more or less the momentum of moving tht mass in one direction. And when u go to twist the other way the momentum of the ball still traveling in the opposite way is the resistance. This came to mind instantly or am I wrong..

Beyond that. As I watch more. He said to work the lower lats that U have to pull down so grab high and pull down to go with the fiber direction. That seems like to me a upper outer lat work out.
I,e wide grip pull ups or lat pull down. Unless is he saying if I keep my elbows tucked to my sides which i figurd activates lower lats like a cable row from in front of me keeping elbows to my sides . I should keep my elbows tucked to the side and pull from high as I would for upper outer lat pulldown etc. see I hate when I see or hear some shit not explained enough. He left it at that and didn't explain detail..buy the book i guess lol.

Never just opt for surgery / what they did was probly more than wrong(if they didn't take at least an X-Ray if not MRI)

You know I deal with chronic pain in my rear delts/& RCs are worse...

Imho try therapy,get an MRI(with contrast dye) and see if there's anything that PT can take care of... in my experiences I would put off surgery as long as possible unless it's so bad structurally you haven't any other choice - your ROM probly won't be nearly as free but it's the risk reward of the surgeries :/
Best of luck Tax

Thanks fellas, i cant believe they didnt take an xray either, and i was a bit young and stupid at the time so never even questioned it, it was so busy in there that day i think they neglected their patients to cut the que down

I dont want the surgery route and be out of training and lose gains and routine, im more sick of the romboids knotting its as if they are holding that area of my body together rather than the collar bone structure, i also find no matter what exercise i do the injured side hardly feels it gets worked, its more the back muscles taking the strain of the exercise

I think constant massage on the back and just keep trying the rear delt exercises, it has improved a little over the last few months but its taking long for them to build any decent size and the burn pain is unreal lol i have to rest my arm on something to take the weight off it inbetween sets

Heres few pics of the left side u can seemy cillar bone popping out, lucky when i walk its not visible i have to put my arm in certain positions to make it visible else i wouldhave bought a grinder and got my wife to grind the fvcker down :lol: the position of that bone is making delt workouts amd delt gains slow, especialy targeting the rear, when i do shoulder press you can here it popping/clicking, it doesnt hurt but it aint nice to hear

https://s12.postimg.org/xpz4hz6rt/image.jpg

https://s12.postimg.org/4ous8kmbt/image.jpg

https://s12.postimg.org/6hxoww7ih/image.jpg

https://s12.postimg.org/6vz0whrm1/image.jpg


pic upload

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marsoc

Didn't watch it all before I replied here. But the medicine ball thing nd how there's is no opposing resistance and holding it out in front works bicep mainly well I hold the bill against my body somewhat if I do them which I don't really. I have big obliques. But the opposing force is not the actual weight resistance it more or less the momentum of moving tht mass in one direction. And when u go to twist the other way the momentum of the ball still traveling in the opposite way is the resistance. This came to mind instantly or am I wrong..

Beyond that. As I watch more. He said to work the lower lats that U have to pull down so grab high and pull down to go with the fiber direction. That seems like to me a upper outer lat work out.
I,e wide grip pull ups or lat pull down. Unless is he saying if I keep my elbows tucked to my sides which i figurd activates lower lats like a cable row from in front of me keeping elbows to my sides . I should keep my elbows tucked to the side and pull from high as I would for upper outer lat pulldown etc. see I hate when I see or hear some shit not explained enough. He left it at that and didn't explain detail..buy the book i guess lol.

---

1. Momentum is an outside force. Work the muscle not the weight. The goal of every exercise is to eliminate momentum. In that example the transverse abs were the target muscle, yet by simple holding the ball they were not opposing resistance thus their activation was minimal.

2. Fibers are in essence straight lines running from origin to insertion. Muscles always pull parallel to the fibers. He was describing that in order to optimally engage the lats the movement need to follow the fiber angle ie from high to low. IMO the best would be handle attachment, neutral grip, bringing elbows as close to the body as possible. If you go too wide grip (using straight pull down bar) you will limit ROM.

3. He is talking about basic biomechanical laws, if you can understand the basic logic, you should be able to apply the concepts to any exercise.

4. No mate, Doug is a stand up guy. He has load of videos on YT and articles online discussing biomechanics. He has been working on the book for years, its still not available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheTaxMan

Heres few pics of the left side u can seemy cillar bone popping out, lucky when i walk its not visible i have to put my arm in certain positions to make it visible else i wouldhave bought a grinder and got my wife to grind the fvcker down :lol: the position of that bone is making delt workouts amd delt gains slow, especialy targeting the rear, when i do shoulder press you can here it popping/clicking, it doesnt hurt but it aint nice to hear

---

Yea there is def something not normal going on with the pics. IMO the body will subconsciously protect itself so I would almost guarantee that its finding some way to compensate when you try to workout the rear delt.

If I were you I would also eliminate shoulder press, its a shoulder destroyer. Same with upright rows, rotator cuff destroyers.

Tax

My R side(from all shoulder surgeries) my rear delt lacks as well / only thing I do is try not to cause anymore of an imbalance that's already there(don't do more reps b/c you can w/your other arm / it'll lead to one side getting stronger and more compensation or the body protecting itself

It's tough to balance out but it's most likely going to take much more isolation(short movements) strengthening the smaller muscles supporting some of the bigger muscles...

I'd still say PT is a good idea - if it seems to make it worse stop immediately but know you'll have more pain 4 it gets better, also... I know all to well(as most in here probly do) shoulder issues suck and it's a terrible injury to get - if it ever comes to surgery maybe by then other options will be available(stem cell which is available outta the country - not sure about yours)? I'm trying to play the waiting game myself too :/ with much better reward/risk ratio

Edit you said more clavicle right, Tax? If so get your acromium looked at it looks out of place to me and I've had probs with mine(it sticks up awkwardly) is that where it hurts(anteriorally/the front or top of delt)? Is ur ROM effected?

Rom - rate of movement? If thsts te case i have full range theres no issues

I dont get pain where that bone is coming out the top of my delt/trap and front delt is fine it feels more like my theres some very weak tissue inside like the rotator cuff and possibly the rear delt, even if i carry a heavy bag for a little while it will burn like a mofo

My flexibility is poor, my wife says i should do more rotator cuff training, i tried the other day and im not kidding i had to use the smallest weights in the gym and the flexibility/full range of movemebt is pretty poor on both sides

I can swing my arm all the way round without pain, but my rotator cuff flexibility if thats even a correct term seems to be very poor, ive recently started laying on a flat bench with 2 light dumbells and allowing the gravity and weight to force stretch them a bit hoping to improve it and strengthen it

by PT you mean get a personal trainer? Confused here

Not sure what stem cell even is, il look into it

Cheers nach

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheTaxMan

Rom - rate of movement? If thsts te case i have full range theres no issues

I dont get pain where that bone is coming out the top of my delt/trap and front delt is fine it feels more like my theres some very weak tissue inside like the rotator cuff and possibly the rear delt, even if i carry a heavy bag for a little while it will burn like a mofo

My flexibility is poor, my wife says i should do more rotator cuff training, i tried the other day and im not kidding i had to use the smallest weights in the gym and the flexibility/full range of movemebt is pretty poor on both sides

I can swing my arm all the way round without pain, but my rotator cuff flexibility if thats even a correct term seems to be very poor, ive recently started laying on a flat bench with 2 light dumbells and allowing the gravity and weight to force stretch them a bit hoping to improve it and strengthen it

by PT you mean get a personal trainer? Confused here

Not sure what stem cell even is, il look into it

Cheers nach

---

Most BB have a high level of imbalance between internal and external shoulder rotation. Good way to see is to stand straight, let your arms fall down normal, then look at how your thumbs point. They should ideally point forward. If they point towards each other (inwardly) you have too much internal rotation. In such a case you should IMO only work external rotators to correct the imbalance. I prefer to lie on my side on flat bench using DB. I also never go heavier than 12-15lb DB. Cable machine is also good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hellomycognomen

1. Momentum is an outside force. Work the muscle not the weight. The goal of every exercise is to eliminate momentum. In that example the transverse abs were the target muscle, yet by simple holding the ball they were not opposing resistance thus their activation was minimal.

2. Fibers are in essence straight lines running from origin to insertion. Muscles always pull parallel to the fibers. He was describing that in order to optimally engage the lats the movement need to follow the fiber angle ie from high to low. IMO the best would be handle attachment, neutral grip, bringing elbows as close to the body as possible. If you go too wide grip (using straight pull down bar) you will limit ROM.

3. He is talking about basic biomechanical laws, if you can understand the basic logic, you should be able to apply the concepts to any exercise.

4. No mate, Doug is a stand up guy. He has load of videos on YT and articles online discussing biomechanics. He has been working on the book for years, its still not available.

---

Yeah but he said best way for lower lat was from high down to low pull. I know to keep elbows to side for lower lat but I usually do close grip palms facing me chin ups and elbows tucked seated cable row. Mainly. If I had a gym pass I would be doing t bar rows with the bar end shoved in the corner etc. or various other elbows close to my side moves. Just got confused when he sad from high then down for lower lat. cuz that's what I do but with wide grip for upper outer lats. I.e the moves I do that I reach high and bring down such as palms facing away wide grip pull ups ir lat pulldowns.

Ever since I started to pre exhaust my rear delts they have really blown up.

I start with dumbbell flyes 10-15 reps bent over, 10-15 reps lateral raise and 10-15 reps front raise all done as 1 set with 10 or 15lb DBs I'll do 2-3 sets of this. Then move onto the reverse pec dec and get 3 sets of 20-30 rep and then move onto shoulder presses. My lifts went down temporarily but now I'm back to 225 on military press and my rear delts have improved significantly.

Have the MRI done beacuse if you tore the Laybrum it won't heal it's self.And its a long road to recovery that CAN'T be rushed. I had it done and it wasn't fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Livinlean

Ever since I started to pre exhaust my rear delts they have really blown up.

I start with dumbbell flyes 10-15 reps bent over, 10-15 reps lateral raise and 10-15 reps front raise all done as 1 set with 10 or 15lb DBs I'll do 2-3 sets of this. Then move onto the reverse pec dec and get 3 sets of 20-30 rep and then move onto shoulder presses. My lifts went down temporarily but now I'm back to 225 on military press and my rear delts have improved significantly.

---

I forgot about reverse pec deck..man I need a gym pass bad. Can't wait for my pct , aqua suspension and a gym Pass. Game on !!

Found another great video on shoulder knowledge. Doug Brignole and Ric Drasin.

My personal take away: Change external rotator cuff exercise from on side to laying down to maximize the strength curve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKIYPLt7wbk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by songdog

Have the MRI done beacuse if you tore the Laybrum it won't heal it's self.And its a long road to recovery that CAN'T be rushed. I had it done and it wasn't fun.

---

Ditto..MRI A.S.A.P.

Could be an AC problem as well, along with RC and possibly labrum.

Find a good ortho, push for an MRI, figure out wtf is going on exactly. It's like the need for BW, you can guess all you want on what's going on with your blood levels, you just got to do it to know for sure.

How would they repair labrum? Surgery?

Im in no discomfort through the day etc only when doing certain exercises, its just an instense burn for 15-30 sec

I have to rest my arm on my knee or the weight bench etc until the burn goes, then il do another set

Im annoyed that the national health service in england didnt give me an exray, they arent the best in terms of health care but they do xray for fun, the day i went was the busiest ive ever seen and i think they just rushed people out of the door that day

You can get good compensation for neglect but it has to be within 5 years and its been like 7 i think

I misread bro. Sound like you need to refrain from training(shoulder) and concentrate on rehab for about 2 months....and it may heal....but mark my words, ignore it and it probably will get worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Proximal

Could be an AC problem as well, along with RC and possibly labrum.

Find a good ortho, push for an MRI, figure out wtf is going on exactly. It's like the need for BW, you can guess all you want on what's going on with your blood levels, you just got to do it to know for sure.

---

This ^^^

---------------------------------

From your collar bone protrusion pictures AC separation is very suspicious.

Found helpful video on shoulder examination. It would be good to watch and next doc visit have a list of questions at the ready. -Cheers mate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcSYV362CxU