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  1. #1
    Johnhenson is offline Junior Member
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    Overtraining?

    I am on cycle(40mg tbol) right now so I'm trying to workout as much as possible. i eat a very minimum of 3 huge meals a day but its usually 4-6 big meals. ill make this quick and just post my schedule below.

    Monday 3PM -chest(flat bench 6x6) legs(squats3x6) abs back(pullups 3xmax) and conditioning. 8pm- Shoulders(press and lateral/front raises) traps (shrugs) abs
    Tuesday Abs biceps
    Wednesday 3pm Shoulders (push press 3x6) legs (squats 3x6) abs. 8pm chest. Flat/incline/decline bench. incline/decline flys 1 set of 6 1 set of 3 1 set of 2 then weighted dips . I may or may not do abs during this workout.
    thursday jogging. sometimes abs and biceps
    Friday-3 pm a lot of conditioning. 8pm. Chest flat bench ( max day 5,4,3,2,1) Legs (3x10 very light weight) abs, back (3x max pullups)
    Saturday- sometimes abs and biceps and some footwork on the field.
    Sunday- rest

    Mondays Wednesday and Fridays at 3pm i have football workouts and it feels too easy so i go to the gym later. I never feel run down but i haven't been doing this schedule for a while so i wanted to get you guys' take on it. thanks
    ps. if you guys feel i am neglecting an exercise and think i can fit it in my schedule lmk.
    Last edited by Johnhenson; 03-13-2017 at 01:02 AM.

  2. #2
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
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    I personally don't believe in overtraining, i think if you can handle the workouts and the next day be ready for it again then its fine. Back in the day guys were in the gym working out for hours upon hours, before that men worked labor intensive jobs, before that built shit and hunted and trained for wars and battles. Not until recently has the science come into play and guys are doing minimal workouts but notice how they do maximum amounts of gear lol i think overtraining is when you go far beyond the point of your body telling you to give up, if you're eating enough, taking your shit responsibly and getting rest, do what works for you bro

    I work out 6-7 days a week, very intense and most days i work the same muscle groups but i do make sure i hit every body part weekly and i listen to my body, if I'm overly sore in an area I'll give that part a break for a day or two then hit it hard again when its ready. I've been seeing crazy gains from this and it'll slow down eventually but i think it works because my body never gets the chance to adapt like it would on a program, its a different thing every day whether it be reps, weight, intensity and order i do shit in and thats how it would be for us in the wild each day would be a new challenge and i truly believe thats how our bodies are supposed to work ... many people will disagree with me on this but it works for me, and i accept that we are all different and what works for one may not work for all

  3. #3
    PT1982's Avatar
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    I don't believe in over training, only under eating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhenson View Post
    I am on cycle(40mg tbol) right now so I'm trying to workout as much as possible. i eat a very minimum of 3 huge meals a day but its usually 4-6 big meals. ill make this quick and just post my schedule below.

    Monday 3PM -chest(flat bench 6x6) legs(squats3x6) abs back(pullups 3xmax) and conditioning. 8pm- Shoulders(press and lateral/front raises) traps (shrugs) abs
    Tuesday Abs biceps
    Wednesday 3pm Shoulders (push press 3x6) legs (squats 3x6) abs. 8pm chest. Flat/incline/decline bench. incline/decline flys 1 set of 6 1 set of 3 1 set of 2 then weighted dips . I may or may not do abs during this workout.
    thursday jogging. sometimes abs and biceps
    Friday-3 pm a lot of conditioning. 8pm. Chest flat bench ( max day 5,4,3,2,1) Legs (3x10 very light weight) abs, back (3x max pullups)
    Saturday- sometimes abs and biceps and some footwork on the field.
    Sunday- rest

    Mondays Wednesday and Fridays at 3pm i have football workouts and it feels too easy so i go to the gym later. I never feel run down but i haven't been doing this schedule for a while so i wanted to get you guys' take on it. thanks
    ps. if you guys feel i am neglecting an exercise and think i can fit it in my schedule lmk.
    Yeah,,if your working out a muscle group that many time 3x per week that means your not training hard enough each time. Once a week should be good enough if your intensity is adequate. You might need 3x a week if your lifting with your grandma and or doing one exercise per muscle group lol.
    I'm natural so it takes me a few days to recover after my sessions. My session are listen on my earth gym thread. Mainly the last few pages are my gym routine. Everything previous was me just using what I had.

    Ps. I hit muscles from every angle possible. Not just flat bench or pull ups. Every angle and multiple exercises to thoroughly hit the muscle and develop it fully
    Last edited by Marsoc; 03-13-2017 at 01:38 PM.

  5. #5
    The Deadlifting Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnhenson
    I am on cycle(40mg tbol) right now so I'm trying to workout as much as possible. i eat a very minimum of 3 huge meals a day but its usually 4-6 big meals. ill make this quick and just post my schedule below. Monday 3PM -chest(flat bench 6x6) legs(squats3x6) abs back(pullups 3xmax) and conditioning. 8pm- Shoulders(press and lateral/front raises) traps (shrugs) abs Tuesday Abs biceps Wednesday 3pm Shoulders (push press 3x6) legs (squats 3x6) abs. 8pm chest. Flat/incline/decline bench. incline/decline flys 1 set of 6 1 set of 3 1 set of 2 then weighted dips . I may or may not do abs during this workout. thursday jogging. sometimes abs and biceps Friday-3 pm a lot of conditioning. 8pm. Chest flat bench ( max day 5,4,3,2,1) Legs (3x10 very light weight) abs, back (3x max pullups) Saturday- sometimes abs and biceps and some footwork on the field. Sunday- rest Mondays Wednesday and Fridays at 3pm i have football workouts and it feels too easy so i go to the gym later. I never feel run down but i haven't been doing this schedule for a while so i wanted to get you guys' take on it. thanks ps. if you guys feel i am neglecting an exercise and think i can fit it in my schedule lmk.
    I'll bite.
    You want to be a slot receiver in the NFL.
    You have no need to train bench 3 days a week.
    Nobody in there right mind maxes out bench every week.

    You need speed and agility work.
    Not chest and bis.

    And to anyone who says they don't believe in overtraining.
    Do fifty sets of squats a day and get back to me in a month.
    P.S. Eat all you want.

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    marcus300's Avatar
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    Of course you can over train.
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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    The Deadlifting Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300
    Of course you can over train.
    Thank you.
    CT Fletcher said there is no such thing and now years later everyone believes it.

  8. #8
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    There is overtraining. Most of the time the people who are worried about overtraining shouldn't be worried about overtraining. CT Fletcher is notorious about the overtraining myth, he tends to refer to doing arms everyday, which tend to recover faster than a leg and or back day. I've seen guys working in factory jobs getting jacked pounding on molds with sledge hammers for 8hr shifts. They have not choice but to overtrain, eventually the body responds and adapts.

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    Johnhenson is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Thank you.
    CT Fletcher said there is no such thing and now years later everyone believes it.
    i believe in over training. do you think i am over training?

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    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
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    When i say i don't believe in overtraining i follow up with listen to your body, if you can push the weight and you feel good about it then why not? If you fail on lets say seated rows, then go do a few sets of a few other groups then at the end say fuck it let me get another set of rows in to failure thats totally ok. Who set these arbitrary numbers of sets and reps? We always talk about cookie cutter diets but its the same with all these "programs" and "splits" etc etc. As time goes on guys spend less and less time working out but take more and more gear, i get the science behind the rep ranges and intensity but we are all made differently and on top of that we are all conditioned differently, your body will tell you enough is enough not an arbitrary number set by god knows who lol all of our muscles develop differently, we all have different thresholds and limitations i hate this idea that if you go over this amount of reps or this amount of sets oh no you're overtraining, its bullshit honestly. Its a great base and starting point but to say these numbers are definitive is absolutely ridiculous.... conditioning plays a huge role as well as genetics.

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    Johnhenson is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    I'll bite.
    You want to be a slot receiver in the NFL.
    You have no need to train bench 3 days a week.
    Nobody in there right mind maxes out bench every week.

    You need speed and agility work.
    Not chest and bis.

    And to anyone who says they don't believe in overtraining.
    Do fifty sets of squats a day and get back to me in a month.
    P.S. Eat all you want.

    i have no need to bench 3x a week but will it help? i definitely think so.
    i ran a 4.48 40 yard dash so i have the speed i just need to work on the strength.
    Tbh the bis on my "rest" days are just for show but I'm sure they will help in game even if its the slightest.
    even though i ran a good time I'm still doing speed and agility mon wed fri after lifts and sometimes on saturdays.
    i want to do more if i can because to be in the NFL u need to stand out u can't be average and i want to do everything possible to be the best athlete i can be, but more isn't always better so do you think it would be healthy to fit more in my schedule? if so, what else?

  12. #12
    Johnhenson is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Of course you can over train.

    am i over training?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    I'll bite.
    You want to be a slot receiver in the NFL.
    You have no need to train bench 3 days a week.
    Nobody in there right mind maxes out bench every week.

    You need speed and agility work.
    Not chest and bis.

    And to anyone who says they don't believe in overtraining.
    Do fifty sets of squats a day and get back to me in a month.
    P.S. Eat all you want.
    Lol. I'd yoy do 50 sets of squats a day, you're superman. If you train properly, you silent be able to train a muscle more than 2x a week to full capacity. So no, overtraining, if done properly, is a myth.

  14. #14
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
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    I personally think "overtraining" is often confused with not training with maximum efficiency

    Factors such as lactic acid build up and pumps that hurt make people think they reached failure.

    4 sets of 12 may bring you to failure but who's to say someone else doesn't have a higher threshold and muscle endurance, or they may reach muscle fatigue faster but not true failure so who's to say coming back a few hours later and reworking that muscle is over training it if the muscle is fully capable of handling it? efficient? No not the most efficient but if it works who cares?

    Overtraining in my eyes is cheat repping because you can't handle the weight, your body says it can't but you go against it to get another set thats over training if we're going to define it, knowing your limits is one of the most important things to training and pushing right past that limit is fine but when you're sacrificing form for reps its time to drop weighr or call it quits for the day, but if you can handle the weight, the sets, the reps than how can you possibly be overtraining? Because you're going past some arbitrary number ? If that's the case then what about undertraining? Guys going for one rep maxs? Or guys lifting heavy in the 5-8 rep range ? Who sets these numbers? I've spotted so many people who count reps on a final set and will stop at 8 or 10 reps but clearly have more reps in them but they don't want to over train lol wtf rep that shit out until you need the spot work the muscle, tell your nervous system its time to work thats how you progress or atleast how I've always understood it. In order to grow the body needs stress, it needs a reason to grow it needs that push in order to evolve and as long as you are doing it effectively and safe whats the issue?
    Plenty of collegiate and pro athletes run 2 a day programs, bench daily, squat daily, run the same drills and this isn't over training its conditioning there's a difference.

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    Its plain to see you don't really know what your doing because your on cycle which should be a big no no at your age and your training protocol is horrendous. I'm not trying to offend you just telling you the truth instead of skipping the major issues.

    Yes there is a condition what would come under the umbrella of over training, many wont agree but without doubt if your training at the level what puts your system under serious overload with a great deal of intensity then yes, that's why you need a deload or pullback after a few weeks so your CNS recovers. Oh and by the way no matter how many calories you eat it wont stop over training.

    Its impossible to train properly and do your training protocol, you simply not training hard enough and just wasting sets and reps because you think more is better.
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    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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    Silabolin is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by PT1982 View Post
    I don't believe in over training, only under eating
    I strongly dissagree. Even if Piana says the same. Nothing will happen if you train too much. Bodys defensemechanism. It makes a surronding surface around the muscles protecting the fibers. No food on eart can defeat this. The surface will take all the damage, thats why its so hard to get sour if u keep doing the same.
    If this wasnt the cas, this would be very easy. Its not.

    Personally i see the natty gains of my life as we speak after dropping one of my 3 public gym workouts. Now its only mon and thirsdays and home sundays.
    With this approach u can make every training like a world war loading up with tons of pwos and intrashakes and the muscles and mind are just crying for the weigths.
    Quality, thats the name of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    I strongly dissagree. Even if Piana says the same. Nothing will happen if you train too much. Bodys defensemechanism. It makes a surronding surface around the muscles protecting the fibers. No food on eart can defeat this. The surface will take all the damage, thats why its so hard to get sour if u keep doing the same.
    If this wasnt the cas, this would be very easy. Its not.

    Personally i see the natty gains of my life as we speak after dropping one of my 3 public gym workouts. Now its only mon and thirsdays and home sundays.
    With this approach u can make every training like a world war loading up with tons of pwos and intrashakes and the muscles and mind are just crying for the weigths.
    Quality, thats the name of the game.
    I'm all with you man! Even though I think over training is more of an excuse than an actual thing, I respect all people's opinion because what I believe might change if convinced otherwise. I don't claim to be a know it all, and honestly I don't feel that I know much as it is. I do love to learn and hear all people's ideas and opinions. That's kind of what made me sign up to this forum. The back and forth discussions. I love that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    I strongly dissagree. Even if Piana says the same.

    Wait.....what! All I know is I'm texting RP and telling on you.
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    I have to fight myself to restrain from doing too much exercises/sets, specially during blasts.

    Always have better results with short and intense workouts. That is in terms of growth, if you are cutting or prepping things slightly change.

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    Lol. I don't see how people can stand to look at him, haha. I can't listen to what he has to say unless I close the screen. Even then, it's a lot of arrogance and patting himself on the back.

    EDIT- I was referring to Rich Piana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    I have to fight myself to restrain from doing too much exercises/sets, specially during blasts.

    Always have better results with short and intense workouts. That is in terms of growth


    And as you age you'll find that even more productive and muscle sustaining, imho.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    I have to fight myself to restrain from doing too much exercises/sets, specially during blasts.

    Always have better results with short and intense workouts. That is in terms of growth, if you are cutting or prepping things slightly change.
    Absolutely agree! It can get dangerous on cycle for me because I can start doing personal best weights and then start fudging with form to try and get more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    And as you age you'll find that even more productive and muscle sustaining, imho.
    Agreed!!
    I've been training everyday for years to absolute failure..here and there I would get sick and couldn't train for a few days to a week it started to become more often and I was tired all the time..like BB said I have to fight myself not to stay in the gym to long or go to hard sometimes or to even give myself a few days off here and there but esp at my age it hampers my lifestyle my gains and compromises my immune system it seems..overtraining is real and it definitely gets more pronounced with age imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by KINGKONG View Post
    Agreed!!
    I've been training everyday for years to absolute failure..here and there I would get sick and couldn't train for a few days to a week it started to become more often and I was tired all the time..like BB said I have to fight myself not to stay in the gym to long or go to hard sometimes or to even give myself a few days off here and there but esp at my age it hampers my lifestyle my gains and compromises my immune system it seems..
    I've been training EOD for years and years now and highly recommend it. Best thing I've done to continue to maintain size and even to make some gains. You're mentally and physically fresh for every workout. If you do cardio you've got plenty of off days for it. If not (like me) you have much more time to have a life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I've been training EOD for years and years now and highly recommend it. Best thing I've done to continue to maintain size and even to make some gains. You're mentally and physically fresh for every workout. If you do cardio you've got plenty of off days for it. If not (like me) you have much more time to have a life.
    Kel, Iam gonna try that! Iam sitting here now trying to convince myself to stay home..Iam gonna have to figure out other activitys to give me the same feeling I get off weights..I KNOW your right, it's just hard coming to terms with not getting in a daily workout..cardio doesn't give me the same feeling even intense cardio that weights does..

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I've been training EOD for years and years now and highly recommend it. Best thing I've done to continue to maintain size and even to make some gains. You're mentally and physically fresh for every workout. If you do cardio you've got plenty of off days for it. If not (like me) you have much more time to have a life.
    Kel do you still do EOD on blasts?do you train one body part a day on your EOD or do you combine muscle groups?

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    King you'll love it. I do a three day split with a HIT style philosophy, but I do not always train pure hit. That said, the volume I do is minimal and the intensity is high regardless. Even a 4 day split would work great with EOD. Whatever fits your lifestyle. Thing is, like I referenced previously your fresh for every workout which leads to more productive workouts. On non-training days I do whatever the F I want. It's nice to not have that obligation hanging over your head every day and be able to have the free time to do other things.

    Give it a try for a month or so and let me know how you make out please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KINGKONG View Post
    Kel do you still do EOD on blasts?do you train one body part a day on your EOD or do you combine muscle groups?
    Yes. My schedule is as follows:

    M: Chest, bi's n tri's
    W: Legs and calves
    F: Back and shoulders

    If something occurs where you miss a day it's no big deal, just make it up the following day. Remember, I don't do a lot of volume either, just brief and intense. Example, chest may be six working sets total if not training pure HIT. Quick pace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    King you'll love it. I do a three day split with a HIT style philosophy, but I do not always train pure hit. That said, the volume I do is minimal and the intensity is high regardless. Even a 4 day split would work great with EOD. Whatever fits your lifestyle. Thing is, like I referenced previously your fresh for every workout which leads to more productive workouts. On non-training days I do whatever the F I want. It's nice to not have that obligation hanging over your head every day and be able to have the free time to do other things.

    Give it a try for a month or so and let me know how you make out please.
    I like that ..be 100 percent for my workouts come in fully charged go hard burn out quick and recover..Iam going to try this! my work schedule and training have had me feel burned out and I'll over do the caffeine to overcompensate and feel burned out the rest of the day after my workouts ..Iam getting to old for this and def notice my gains are hampered..

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    My exact thoughts on overtraining and training in general

    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    My exact thoughts on overtraining and training in general

    How old was that? He looked thicker there for sure...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    How old was that? He looked thicker there for sure...
    Not sure but he doesn't train with weights anymore.
    *Anyone wanting a source check from a willing vet/mod must first acquire 100 posts and 45 days of activity*

    “Carrying a set to a point where you are forced to utilize 100 percent of your momentary ability is the single most important factor in increasing size and strength"--- Mike Mentzer

    “one set to failure is all that is required to stimulate an increase in strength and size – with no number of lesser sets having the same effect” – Mike Mentzer

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