Best workout split for optimal gains as a natural lifter?

Hello everyone, just wondering your thoughts on the best workout split for most muscle gains?
for example,
Monday- legs
Tuesdays- chest and tris
Wednesday- back and bi's
Thursday- shoulders
Friday- chest and tris again (I have weak as fuck triceps) lol
or would I benefit more from push/ pull days? people is speak to and things I read about suggest I should train each muscle group twice per week, but I never seem to be fully recovered, most of the time I still have DOMS on day 3.
HELP please haha

you can train muscle groups twice per week if your not going to failure.. but if your going to failure and beyond, then once a week is enough IMHO. Every 8-12 weeks or so i like to change my routine from hi reps/high volume to more of a strength program like 5x5. post up your current routine.



Monday - Chest + Biceps
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Shoulders + Triceps
Friday - Back
Saturday - Off
Sunday - Off

or 2x per week (close enough to 2x a week), this is what i'm currently doing:

Day 1 - Chest/Back
Day 2 - Legs/Abs
Day 3 - Off
Day 4 - Arms/Shoulders
Day 5 - Off
Repeat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChasinGains

Hello everyone, just wondering your thoughts on the best workout split for most muscle gains?
for example,
Monday- legs
Tuesdays- chest and tris
Wednesday- back and bi's
Thursday- shoulders
Friday- chest and tris again (I have weak as fuck triceps) lol
or would I benefit more from push/ pull days? people is speak to and things I read about suggest I should train each muscle group twice per week, but I never seem to be fully recovered, most of the time I still have DOMS on day 3.
HELP please haha

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Just remember adaptation. Periodize your training for 4-6 weeks then switch it up. The body adapts well so changing things up in blocks is ideal. A lot of the times we can get weighted down doing the same type of training if your not careful. So plan something for 4-6 weeks then change it.

Personally

Bi/tri
Chest/back
Quads
Hams/calves
Shoulders
Deadlift
Day off/abs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke

Personally

Bi/tri
Chest/back
Quads
Hams/calves
Shoulders
Deadlift
Day off/abs

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I do something very similar except i seperate back and chest. I also have rest time between hams and quads. Why deadlifts being the only exercise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

I do something very similar except i seperate back and chest. I also have rest time between hams and quads. Why deadlifts being the only exercise?

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Mainly because I have to do many sets.

I run what could basically be called an upper/lower split, but it’s not really specific to the areas. It’s just a typical 5/3/1 style layout involving a day for bench, squat, overhead and deadlift, with accessories on each day catered to filling in gaps and working opposite groups.

For example, rows, dips, and more rows on bench day. RDLs and good mornings on squat day. Pullups, Klokov press, and stiff arm pulldowns on overhead day. Front squats and GHRs or hamstring curls on deadlift day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kronik420

you can train muscle groups twice per week if your not going to failure.. but if your going to failure and beyond, then once a week is enough IMHO. Every 8-12 weeks or so i like to change my routine from hi reps/high volume to more of a strength program like 5x5. post up your current routine.



Monday - Chest + Biceps
Tuesday - Legs
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Shoulders + Triceps
Friday - Back
Saturday - Off
Sunday - Off

or 2x per week (close enough to 2x a week), this is what i'm currently doing:

Day 1 - Chest/Back
Day 2 - Legs/Abs
Day 3 - Off
Day 4 - Arms/Shoulders
Day 5 - Off
Repeat

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Am I wrong in thinking though mate that training till failure is what builds muscle? I literally go till failure on everything but at different ranges for example one week ill do 3x8 incline dumbbell bench press then the next week ill do 3x12 and then 3x6 and then 5x5 etc.. then by the time I get back round to doing 3x8 I'm pushing more weight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChasinGains

Am I wrong in thinking though mate that training till failure is what builds muscle? I literally go till failure on everything but at different ranges for example one week ill do 3x8 incline dumbbell bench press then the next week ill do 3x12 and then 3x6 and then 5x5 etc.. then by the time I get back round to doing 3x8 I'm pushing more weight.

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everyone has a different idea of what training to failure is, for me it is going to failure on both the positive and negative part of the rep, so for example, barbell bicep curls, once i can't get another rep (positive failure), i'll swing the bar up then control it down on the negetive part of the rep for a good 5 seconds or so, i'll do this 2-3 times or until i can't control the weight on the way down anymore (negetive failure). After this my arms feel fkd... take this same principle and apply it to all lifts, you'll need a spotter on exercises like bench press to train like this, or if your training alone you can use rest-pause or drop sets, so go to failure, drop 20 lbs or so, then go to failure again, or rack the weight, rest for 10-15 seconds, go again. If i train like this i find that once per week on each muscle group is sufficient, maybe twice for arms...

I can't keep training like this month after month, so 8 weeks or so and then i switch to 5x5 or whatever, currently doing German volume training for a few more weeks then going to switch back to my HIT training regime (training to failure and beyond).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kronik420

everyone has a different idea of what training to failure is, for me it is going to failure on both the positive and negative part of the rep, so for example, barbell bicep curls, once i can't get another rep (positive failure), i'll swing the bar up then control it down on the negetive part of the rep for a good 5 seconds or so, i'll do this 2-3 times or until i can't control the weight on the way down anymore (negetive failure). After this my arms feel fkd... take this same principle and apply it to all lifts, you'll need a spotter on exercises like bench press to train like this, or if your training alone you can use rest-pause or drop sets, so go to failure, drop 20 lbs or so, then go to failure again, or rack the weight, rest for 10-15 seconds, go again. If i train like this i find that once per week on each muscle group is sufficient, maybe twice for arms...

I can't keep training like this month after month, so 8 weeks or so and then i switch to 5x5 or whatever, currently doing German volume training for a few more weeks then going to switch back to my HIT training regime (training to failure and beyond).

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I am currently doing a 531 WOD which you probably know what it is, but if you don't, At the start I tested my 1rpm for bench, deadlift and squat then for the next 4 weeks I do percentages on my 1rpm so week one, ill do 85% sets of 5 and so on, obviously isolation exercises never really change that much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChasinGains

Hello everyone, just wondering your thoughts on the best workout split for most muscle gains?
for example,
Monday- legs
Tuesdays- chest and tris
Wednesday- back and bi's
Thursday- shoulders
Friday- chest and tris again (I have weak as fuck triceps) lol
or would I benefit more from push/ pull days? people is speak to and things I read about suggest I should train each muscle group twice per week, but I never seem to be fully recovered, most of the time I still have DOMS on day 3.
HELP please haha

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IMO how often one trains a muscle group for optimal gains varies greatly depending on genetics, hormone levels, recovery ability, rest and prob quite a few more things I'm leaving out. If you're getting so sore that 3 days after you train you're still sore I'd imagine you're doing too much volume for that muscle. I was recently introduced to the concept of MRV (maximum recoverable volume) from a gentleman on here and this seems to be a perfect axample where that concept is applicable. You need to adjust the amount of sets you do per muscle to find that sweet spot between doing enough work and not doing too much work so you can progress optimally...How many sets are you currently doing per muscle group? And also just out of curiosity how old are you man?

I do one body part each gym session except for arms.

The order i train is
Shoulders
Chest
Back
Arms
Legs

I try to copy marcus' HIT style training to failure. Works out around each body part once per week ish.

as a NATURAL lifter, I advise mainly sticking to a split that is focused mainly on heavy compound movements (bench press and its accessories like JM press, Overhead press and its accessories like dumbbell press and lateral raises, Deadlift and its accessories like rack pulls and power shrugs, Squat and its accessories like SSB squat and other squat variations, and bent over rows and all the rowing compound movements).
this will build a solid base.

stay away from a lot of the high volume pump work and high rep isolation exercises that guys on AAS are doing. You won't grow off of that stuff , even though they can. Steroids have a strong hypertrophic response directly on sarcoplasmic muscle tissue (tissue that responds to lighter weight higher volume). as a natural lifter you don't have that benefit and so strength based programming focused on more myofibril tissue is going to be best.

and any well put together program is going to be based between MEV and MRV (minimum effective volume and maximum recoverable volume). you want your training to progress over time. you want to start closer to MEV and work your way up to MRV over time , and then de-load and re-program.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

as a NATURAL lifter, I advise mainly sticking to a split that is focused mainly on heavy compound movements (bench press and its accessories like JM press, Overhead press and its accessories like dumbbell press and lateral raises, Deadlift and its accessories like rack pulls and power shrugs, Squat and its accessories like SSB squat and other squat variations, and bent over rows and all the rowing compound movements).
this will build a solid base.

stay away from a lot of the high volume pump work and high rep isolation exercises that guys on AAS are doing. You won't grow off of that stuff , even though they can. Steroids have a strong hypertrophic response directly on sarcoplasmic muscle tissue (tissue that responds to lighter weight higher volume). as a natural lifter you don't have that benefit and so strength based programming focused on more myofibril tissue is going to be best.

and any well put together program is going to be based between MEV and MRV (minimum effective volume and maximum recoverable volume). you want your training to progress over time. you want to start closer to MEV and work your way up to MRV over time , and then de-load and re-program.

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Great info man. Ok, so are you saying one will ultimately make more progress if they bring the intensity down for a couple weeks (deload) and then revamp the intensity for another few months?? I'm not sure I'm fully grasping what you're saying regarding deloading and what you were saying the other day about periodization... If I'm yielding amazing results by training with a lot of back to back sets, super sets and drop sets where can I go from there cause I can't go up anymore. Are you saying I'd see more gains if I slowed down after a couple months of training with very high intensity, went back to a 2 day split kind of approach for a few weeks, and then blasted off with high intensity (short rest after 2-3 part back to back sets) training again?