isolation vs hitting up multiple groups

what's up guys and you beautiful women in BB,

So i'm at a point where i want to know how to maximize the effectiveness of both types of routines and i have preferences, which i'm worried might hinder progress.

I like hitting up multiple body parts. like if i'm doing chest, i'll throw in some random like shrugs and partly hit those up. i like the idea of doing a main and then a half ass because i can hit the one i did half ass the next day. some examples of what i like doing are below. not sure if it's worth my liking it.

example
chest: i'll mix up some biceps, or hit up triceps really good. i like the idea of burning out chest and then moving onto triceps to really knarl those up. shoot i'll even throw in some shurgs or just whatever if i'm waiting/resting between sets.
i think i'm seeing results from not focusing lightly but broadly. i feel like my body might respond better to my hitting up multiple parts. i'm not sure if there is a time tested methodology to this. i really feel like my routine needs cleaning up as in i need to pick a body part (or (2) at max) and hit it/them up for like an hr straight then spike my insulin after the workout. i don't have real insulin right now, so i mean with Cliff blok energy chews and a banana i've got in my car.

OR should i just carry the basic idea with me: hit up chest, legs and biceps twice a week, and make sure everything else gets a day all to itself.

i really like the idea of making chest day also a tricep day.

how is my thinking panning out? please help me get aligned so i'm not spinning my wheels.

my biggest points of weakness: Legs, Biceps, Chest, Triceps, traps, and scapular muscles. i really want some knarled up scaps and traps that make me look like a demon. (i'm shit pretty much everywhere)

Lol, i'm finally getting compliments on my physique... they couldn't be more wrong, oh well. it's kind of nice. always feel like fraud though.
speaking of using self hate as a motivator, anyone ever take a look at the twitter scene for girls with eating disorders? i love it and it's hard to admit that lol. those girls have real problems. take a look at these Asian hotties. like to get me a piece of that during their off season. Delicious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqe91c24Wws

apologies if i come off as sexiest. sorry.

Both.

You've heard I'm sure, "whatever works for you. Try different stuff" if you've been doing the same routine a while, do something different. Whatever routine you like most, stop it. Exercises you hate? Do more of them!

Liking a routine leads to complacency and your muscles learn to 'cheat' those movements. That gives least growth

In my case, I literally needed someone to tell me what to do! I won't change on my own but challenge me with a completely new, gruelling routine n I will stubbornly follow it to a tee!

And don't forget food. Wanna grow? Eat more. Heard it a thousand times but had no idea what it really meant. More protein. More carbs. Targetted meals.

I've grown as much in 3 months as I did the previous 3 years

lol,

"In my case, I literally needed someone to tell me what to do! I won't change on my own but challenge me with a completely new, gruelling routine n I will stubbornly follow it to a tee!"

i'm the same way, but yea. gonna change things up. i want to do more dead lifts, clean and jerks with a press. -not sure if i used the right name. and focus more on legs.

yes, i've recently gotten pretty good with controlling my weight thanks to MFP. I've tracked everything i've eaten for the last 5 months. i firmly believe i'm on the right path and that it will provide the gains i desire. i usually sit at a 20% over TDEE surplus, and i sometimes go up to 4000 calories in a day. i was 11% body fat, but i believe i've climbed a little and am currently at around 12, or 13%. i'm actually going to ease back this week by about 500 calories.

1900 limit for TDEE. i'll increase on the days i lift, but baseline will be 1900 vice 2,400. -the max range for my TDEE req.

i'm in the military and we have strict regs on bodyfat. if i climb above 19% my career is f'd and if i get fat i also get slow, which means poor endurance. can't get low fitness scores because that stuff is money.

current macro break out is for the week of deficit

P 45% 214g
C 35% 166g
F 20% 42g

today i'm still on max TDEE. the percentages don't include compensation for workouts. i can tack on up to 1,800 calories today i tacked on calories today so the grams are increased.

P 40% 311g
C 40% 311g
F 20% 69g

lol, i'm also dying to start utilizing insulin with gear, and peptides. i mostly want muscle maturity. i can't have size and still be fast, or at least that will be very difficult. i should probably do a few cycles utilizing what I've learned about eating instead of jumping into insulin. don't want to grow too fast. the diet piece is really paying off i think. i also now understand that diet is number 1. here's how i think things matter in order of importance

Diet
Training consistency
Technique
Genetics
AAS and all that other stuff that we use with them.

what do you think and why?

i didn't realize that that order is how i believe things work for me, but i feel like i'm a very average human with no genetic gifts. now that i think about it, i could see how others may disagree, but if it works for the guy with no inborn talents then well it might be awesome for somebody with gifts.

I generally recommend guys have an actual training program in place. not just an idea or some basic bro split in their head. but an actual program in writing with everything laid out. this gives you a base line and foundation from which to build. from there you can modulate things when needed... wither it be volume, frequency, or intensity. if the program has these factors built in then they can be modulated as you go.

so lets say one of my clients is following a push pull legs style program I've put together. that program is going to break down things like intensity techniques (not just sets, reps, and exercise selection).. so there will be certain days and exercises where non working sets are done based on RIR (reps in reserve) and certain exercises with max effort intensity techniques employed (like muscle rounds or rest pause).. so lets say this guy has a chest day and 4 exercises each have 2 non working sets with RIRs set at 4. . now when he hits a certain point in the program, I don't need to change his program or the split . all I need to do is change the RIRs to say 2 from 4. now his Intensity has been fairly dramatically increased just cause of this one small change and he continue to make progress. OR we can up the intensity and the volume if need be by adding for example another intensity technique set (eg, add a muscle round, rest pause, or drop set).

I could go on and on about all the ways a program thats well put together can be adjusted and modified to modulate volume, intensity, and frequency, to continue to progress, progressively overload, and 'periodize' . BUT my point is, first things first you need to actually have this programming in place . so I'd focus on that first so you can keep yourself accountable.
when your program is telling you exactly what to do ,, then you can just focus at the gym and get the work done and do what needs to be done. no playing around and changing shit up all the time. steady progress takes keeping to something and progressing when and where needed.


as far as isolation vs compounds . most all the programs I've ever written up for clients over the last couple years (I'm talking 100s) have almost always included both (for beginners I generally start with just compounds) . for more advanced guys my programs are based on "phases' , or more technically macro cycles , Meso cycles, and micro cycles . I don't program off any type of weekly split or bro split (no chest day or back day on weds etc.). I'll have set workouts pre determined and programmed and that will be the Micro Cycle . lets say that consists of 8 separate workouts. well its your job to get all 8 of those workouts done. I don't care about the days of the week.. some clients I have do two a days, some clients take every couple of days off from the gym entirely, it does not matter . all that matters is getting those 8 workouts completed. and then you repeat those 8 workouts again, then again, then again.. for example lets says 7 times. once you've completed those 8 workouts for a total of 7 times , then that completes your Meso cycle. that phase of training is now complete and you can move on to the next phase of training in your Macro cycle (so you'll have a new meso cycle and micro cycle lay out).
anyhow.. some of these phases or perhaps just the micro cycle will have separate components that break down isolation focused training and others more heavy compounds focus. either way, both are generally going to play a part in the total program.

maybe this is getting to complicated lol . but anyhow thats how I program. I can be simple or more advanced, just depends on your goals.
but again, have a plan and stick to it and then adjust as you go.

first off i apologize for this messy post. it's probably hard to understand cause it's not very well written.

"I'll have set workouts pre determined and programmed and that will be the Micro Cycle . lets say that consists of 8 separate workouts. well its your job to get all 8 of those workouts done. I don't care about the days of the week."

i love this idea mainly because i'll freak out if i miss a day and then feel like I've failed. i hate that feeling.

i really like these categories of options: volume, frequency, or intensity

so what you're saying is that you construct a program with predetermined sets that are regulatable, so you can manipulate intensity in a trackable and standardized way? you seem to provide and example here: there will be certain days and exercises where non working sets are done based on RIR (reps in reserve) and certain exercises with max effort intensity techniques employed (like muscle rounds or rest pause).. so lets say this guy has a chest day and 4 exercises each have 2 non working sets with RIRs set at 4.

let me see if i got this right. i'm not sure if i see your main points. at this point it's probably best i just focus on the main points. this is basically going to show you what i do and don't know and maybe you can point me where you think i should go.

here i go
1. start simple. 8 days of workouts, or rather 8 days that focus on muscles and muscles groups. chest, biceps, tris, etc.
2. put that on paper. 3. now pick the exercises based on what? i would pick mine based on the angle i'm hitting the muscle and if i'm getting full contraction.
4. as for technique the most i can think of is not incorporating other muscles into say an ez bar curl and the quarter rep rule because time under tension builds...
5. then manipulate intensity in a variety of ways.
how do you develop number of sets? strength? experience?

as for RIR. i should construct RIRs with the idea that increasing intensity means lowering reps because i'm adding weight? i can also increase intensity by throwing in a drop set, or increasing the number of sets? how do rest pauses work? isn't a rest pause just time manipulated? like as in maybe i'll spend more or less time resting based on how hard the next lift is going to be and if the next lift is going to be hard then that means i'm doing less reps because i've "gone heavy" i think i understand what you're saying because i do some of these things, but i never gave them a name, and i especially never used RIR. I've followed programs before but to be honest they always seems to disappoint.

i'd love a program that satisfies me every time, or is so flexible that i never have to re-invent my scheme of maneuver. i'll be honest, i feel like my understanding of you level of thinking is not up to par with your level of thinking, but as i think about it and you explain i kinda start to relate. i definitely play with volume frequency and intensity, but I've never structured it.

what's a muscle round?

this seems like a main point: "progressively overload, and 'periodize'" what is that? you just explained it right?

guess i'll just start with something. are there any tracking apps you like? i'm going to use an app to construct this routine.

so first build my 8 day routine, and make sure it's flexible so that i get what i want out of it? some of the better BB i know have said to me that they go by feeling. They follow a routine, and do the basics like focus on technique, full contraction, quarter reps, volume, and intensity, but that they mostly just work their muscles until they feel like they are done and the muscle is exhausted.

my goal is hypertrophy, endurance, and strength, and muscle maturity if that's even a thing.

lol i think i'm a little lost, but i can see this stuff on the horizon so i'm not totally in the dark. just not there yet. this has been educational though. thank you for taking the time.

The big advantage to having a structured program is you can easily track your progress. If you go in flying by the seat of your pants its hard to tell how you are progressing ( I don't mean workout to workout but in say 2, 4, 6 months etc). Insulin can just as easily make you fat instead of muscular when used incorrectly - there is an art to using the hormone unlike other gear.

can you describe the art as a process?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Too-$mall

can you describe the art as a process?

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Insulin has many types (rapid, short, intermediate, long). Plus you have carbs which again have different types. You also need to calibrate the amount of carbs relative to the IU of insulin used.

So you are controlling 4 variables daily versus a typical anabolic cycle is X compounds at Y doses with Z injection schedule.

If you miss an injection of test thursday night and do it Friday morning, no big deal. If your training is cut in half for whatever reason, no spilled milk.

Insulin is a different story and require a lot more religious organization and commitment.A lot of the horror stories you hear can be attributed to poor planning and organization - like leaving carbs in the vehicle or gym bag, instead of being in the pocket at all times.

My $0.02 is that it's an advanced compound and should be one of the last levers pulled if everything else has been mastered.

Hey Windex! thanks for your help!!!! Happy Friday!!!

maybe i'll hold off. i did just start to hone diet. i would like to learn more now though while i wait. I also want to learn more about Test Undecanoate. I've read that that one can be tricky as well but that's a digression from the topic of insulin which holds my interest now.

Can you describe insulin in more detail using definition you used for gear here: "X = Compounds, at Y = doses, with ("Z = injection schedule + C Carb Choice = timing of injection basis according to a strict eating schedule <-[here's where i'm guessing how this relationship works. please correct me.]) is the injection schedule variable based on food choice? i'm assuming a blood sugar monitor is a great idea?

X = compound (insulin)
y = dose (iu)
z = injection timing + c carbohydrate choice = basis for creating injection schedule or parameters for use?

carb types

fast (relationship to insulin = fast spike) what is the proposed dose for sugary foods eaten right after working out?
medium (relationship to insulin = dependent on consumption amount) most of my carbs come from this section. again same question as above.
slow (relationship to insulin = slow release) and same question as the first again.

so food in the pockets. check. i'm already starting to do that with carb gummies after a session in the gym. bout to hit it up right now in fact and got some in my pocket. sounds like something stupid can really mess me up. What are the most common mistakes that are dangerous? what mistakes are not dangerous? what causes death, and coma? what are the best corrections to mistakes?

please tell me more after i understand all your corrections.

Is it Just me who dont fancy all this text?
I remember Austinite said Bonaparte was the best cause he was able to target in few words.
Im not having a bad day. I have wanted to say this for a long time.

Sent fra min G3311 via Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I generally recommend guys have an actual training program in place. not just an idea or some basic bro split in their head. but an actual program in writing with everything laid out. this gives you a base line and foundation from which to build. from there you can modulate things when needed... wither it be volume, frequency, or intensity. if the program has these factors built in then they can be modulated as you go.

so lets say one of my clients is following a push pull legs style program I've put together. that program is going to break down things like intensity techniques (not just sets, reps, and exercise selection).. so there will be certain days and exercises where non working sets are done based on RIR (reps in reserve) and certain exercises with max effort intensity techniques employed (like muscle rounds or rest pause).. so lets say this guy has a chest day and 4 exercises each have 2 non working sets with RIRs set at 4. . now when he hits a certain point in the program, I don't need to change his program or the split . all I need to do is change the RIRs to say 2 from 4. now his Intensity has been fairly dramatically increased just cause of this one small change and he continue to make progress. OR we can up the intensity and the volume if need be by adding for example another intensity technique set (eg, add a muscle round, rest pause, or drop set).

I could go on and on about all the ways a program thats well put together can be adjusted and modified to modulate volume, intensity, and frequency, to continue to progress, progressively overload, and 'periodize' . BUT my point is, first things first you need to actually have this programming in place . so I'd focus on that first so you can keep yourself accountable.
when your program is telling you exactly what to do ,, then you can just focus at the gym and get the work done and do what needs to be done. no playing around and changing shit up all the time. steady progress takes keeping to something and progressing when and where needed.


as far as isolation vs compounds . most all the programs I've ever written up for clients over the last couple years (I'm talking 100s) have almost always included both (for beginners I generally start with just compounds) . for more advanced guys my programs are based on "phases' , or more technically macro cycles , Meso cycles, and micro cycles . I don't program off any type of weekly split or bro split (no chest day or back day on weds etc.). I'll have set workouts pre determined and programmed and that will be the Micro Cycle . lets say that consists of 8 separate workouts. well its your job to get all 8 of those workouts done. I don't care about the days of the week.. some clients I have do two a days, some clients take every couple of days off from the gym entirely, it does not matter . all that matters is getting those 8 workouts completed. and then you repeat those 8 workouts again, then again, then again.. for example lets says 7 times. once you've completed those 8 workouts for a total of 7 times , then that completes your Meso cycle. that phase of training is now complete and you can move on to the next phase of training in your Macro cycle (so you'll have a new meso cycle and micro cycle lay out).
anyhow.. some of these phases or perhaps just the micro cycle will have separate components that break down isolation focused training and others more heavy compounds focus. either way, both are generally going to play a part in the total program.

maybe this is getting to complicated lol . but anyhow thats how I program. I can be simple or more advanced, just depends on your goals.
but again, have a plan and stick to it and then adjust as you go.

---

I agree 100% on the effect of having a well thought out workout plan in place. A couple good guys I know helped me out in this regard and I just started the program a few days ago but god damn it’s already kicking my ass in the best way possible! Intensity is through the roof!

i have to admit this is one of my most screwed up threads I've created. I think.

no you're totally right. it's diarrhea in type. i was really busy, interested in the details. not really effective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AR's King Silabolin

Is it Just me who dont fancy all this text?
I remember Austinite said Bonaparte was the best cause he was able to target in few words.
Im not having a bad day. I have wanted to say this for a long time.

Sent fra min G3311 via Tapatalk

---

I was thinking of just using a log after the workout. i want to start slow and easy so i can build up to stricter methods that are sustainable for me.

lol, i'd be eating truck loads. i haven't started it yet. i've been having to run on a very regular basis. earlier this week i ran 5 miles in under 30min. it was awesome, but yea. i would rather not do as much cardio, but it's mandatory. I also have a no shit test in a few days. currently resting for it. i'm not conditioned because all of the cardio. i had that part down just by eating right. I'm also currently away from my TRT/Cycle source... kind of a big mistake on my part. it's been 7 weeks, but i was paranoid about packing a vile and a crap ton of needles. : /

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Family_guy

I agree 100% on the effect of having a well thought out workout plan in place. A couple good guys I know helped me out in this regard and I just started the program a few days ago but god damn it’s already kicking my ass in the best way possible! Intensity is through the roof!

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__________________________________________________ ___
I know a guy that says he does legs and chest twice a week. he said if the body part sucks hit it twice. And try to ensure that muscles have 6 days of rest between being worked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Too-$mall

Hey Windex! thanks for your help!!!! Happy Friday!!!

maybe i'll hold off. i did just start to hone diet. i would like to learn more now though while i wait. I also want to learn more about Test Undecanoate. I've read that that one can be tricky as well but that's a digression from the topic of insulin which holds my interest now.

Can you describe insulin in more detail using definition you used for gear here: "X = Compounds, at Y = doses, with ("Z = injection schedule + C Carb Choice = timing of injection basis according to a strict eating schedule <-[here's where i'm guessing how this relationship works. please correct me.]) is the injection schedule variable based on food choice? i'm assuming a blood sugar monitor is a great idea?

X = compound (insulin)
y = dose (iu)
z = injection timing + c carbohydrate choice = basis for creating injection schedule or parameters for use?

carb types

fast (relationship to insulin = fast spike) what is the proposed dose for sugary foods eaten right after working out?
medium (relationship to insulin = dependent on consumption amount) most of my carbs come from this section. again same question as above.
slow (relationship to insulin = slow release) and same question as the first again.

so food in the pockets. check. i'm already starting to do that with carb gummies after a session in the gym. bout to hit it up right now in fact and got some in my pocket. sounds like something stupid can really mess me up. What are the most common mistakes that are dangerous? what mistakes are not dangerous? what causes death, and coma? what are the best corrections to mistakes?

please tell me more after i understand all your corrections.

---

There are more qualified members to provide insulin information/advice.

I feel your time would be better invested in other AAS components being a novice user. Learning about it now just means you'll have to relearn it later. However, if you are dead set on the theory there may also be a few stickies or detailed threads/logs.

I personally don't think Insulin is needed for those that bodybuild as a hobby/recreationally. However, if someone was going to use it like I said I feel that it should be the last lever pulled - after mastering nutrition, cycling, stacking compounds, priming, short blast cycles, etc.

At your level, I honestly wouldn't worry about it until you have more cycles and experience under your belt. Only just becoming habitual with a diet in my opinion is a red flag to be worrying about insulin.

Ok. sounds good. hmm. so i'm not quite sure what to turn to now. i could just go on but there is no specific plan. here's what I've got going.

when i get home i'm going to get back on TRT and then i'm going to do bloods to see where i am health wise. should i blood test before of after getting back on TRT? i know my levels are going to be f'd without test. assuming the blood tests go well, i'm going to cycle up and throw in little Tren to use with my peptides. That's it really. oh and possibly create a log book where i just take not of what i was doing in the gym.

regarding the log, i'd like to start slow with what i do naturally before i attempt a sustainable regimented method for hitting up body parts, how, when, what, and where angle wise.

I can't think of anything else besides maybe to think about the eating factor a bit more. i'm sure i could improve upon the health of my diet. i recently ate some bomb jerk chicken with plantains and sweet tatters. that was a good meal. and also had some black beans rice, and Havana chicken. also super good. listen to me talk about food like a fat kid, lol.

being off test sucks, but i've been doing kegals like a M'Fr and woke up this morning with a rock solid rager. it's been 7 weeks. If we absolutely had to guess a range for my test what do you think it would be. i'm placing myself below 100 and free like zilch.

what can i do to make 1 -3 small improvements? i don't want to start a blog on here. i have a blog, but it's really not something i'm that into.

I've got an idea. i'm gonna a post called "help me plan for and build my cycle." it will include all my available compounds and ask about those that i should acquire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Too-$mall

Ok. sounds good. hmm. so i'm not quite sure what to turn to now. i could just go on but there is no specific plan. here's what I've got going.

when i get home i'm going to get back on TRT and then i'm going to do bloods to see where i am health wise. should i blood test before of after getting back on TRT? i know my levels are going to be f'd without test. assuming the blood tests go well, i'm going to cycle up and throw in little Tren to use with my peptides. That's it really. oh and possibly create a log book where i just take not of what i was doing in the gym.

regarding the log, i'd like to start slow with what i do naturally before i attempt a sustainable regimented method for hitting up body parts, how, when, what, and where angle wise.

I can't think of anything else besides maybe to think about the eating factor a bit more. i'm sure i could improve upon the health of my diet. i recently ate some bomb jerk chicken with plantains and sweet tatters. that was a good meal. and also had some black beans rice, and Havana chicken. also super good. listen to me talk about food like a fat kid, lol.

being off test sucks, but i've been doing kegals like a M'Fr and woke up this morning with a rock solid rager. it's been 7 weeks. If we absolutely had to guess a range for my test what do you think it would be. i'm placing myself below 100 and free like zilch.

what can i do to make 1 -3 small improvements? i don't want to start a blog on here. i have a blog, but it's really not something i'm that into.

I've got an idea. i'm gonna a post called "help me plan for and build my cycle." it will include all my available compounds and ask about those that i should acquire.

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It sounds like your all over the place. Just focus on 1 thing at a time then move on to the next.

that's always my problem, lol.

what would you suggest i focus on?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Too-$mall

that's always my problem, lol.

what would you suggest i focus on?

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Structure and organization - then tackle one fitness component at a time, starting with your weakest.

so focus on legs.