Best way to work outer pecs??

**J-Bud** · 10-02-2003, 09:25 PM

Between my nipple and my arm pit it looks a bit flabbier than I like, whats the best way to work that area on chest day??

**KeyMastur** · 10-02-2003, 09:34 PM

Hammer strength has a wide chest machine that I find very useful for that area.

Maybe try some reverse grip bench.

**DBarcelo** · 10-04-2003, 01:30 PM

I never thought I would disagree with a VET, but I don't see how a reverse grip bench press can help the outer pec. I would think that would put more stress on the tris and pretty much keep your whole chest out of the motion. I don't know for sure, I say try it and see how you feel and where you feel the strain. I may try it today for one set since this is my chest day. But what works for me is a simple wide grip, flat benchpress. That one movement made me look quite a bit wider from the front. I actually had a problem with being out of proportion because the part of the muscle that connects under the arm pit was larger than the bottom of the chest muscle. I also keep my elbows out and directly under the bar (or at least almost directly under it).

In either case, it may not help to get rid of flab, you probably have to cut your body fat in order to do anything about that. But concentrating on that area may help a little.

**bigol'legs** · 10-04-2003, 01:32 PM

I agree with dbarcelo wide-grip flat bench... always gets me sore the next day.

**RON** · 10-04-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by bigol'legs

I agree with dbarcelo wide-grip flat bench... always gets me sore the next day.

Yep wide grip is key also wide grip incline. You might wanna consider doing your regular bench reps with a little bit wider grip as well. Maybe 2 fingers or so. I see guys using a closer grip all the time just to improve there weight but this works the tri's more and the pec less.

**bornbad71** · 10-04-2003, 02:03 PM

When I do heavy flat db flyes I get sore around the upper outer chest....the only thing I can think that the reversegrip bp would do is maybe give u a better stretch at the bottom of the movement.

Like what was said...wide-grip bp works very good.

**Vibrantred94gt** · 10-04-2003, 03:56 PM

dips have helped my outer chest. It has all come together since I started doing dips. The outer chest line is just getting crazy!

**KeyMastur** · 10-04-2003, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

I never thought I would disagree with a VET, but I don't see how a reverse grip bench press can help the outer pec.

it really doesn't

when i first saw this thread i began putting my arm in a position to feel what stimulates the outer pec. and wouldn't you know it, a reverse grip made my pec hard. but now that i think about it (and do it over again), it was just me having to hold my arm up and flexing my pec that made me think that for some reason - maybe that's why my pecs are my worst feature. hmm.

okay okay, ask me legs. anything. legs...yes ? yes ?

**Warrior** · 10-04-2003, 04:39 PM

Personally - I don't see how you can work "outer pecs" ... there are no outer pecs. Only a Minor and Major, upper and lower pecs. It's not like trying to target the lower quads cause you DO have seperate lower quads, aka the vastus muscle groups. Muscle shape unfortuantly is largely determined by genetics.

Besides, trying to spot reduce bodyfat does not work - you have to lose bodyfat all together. Bodyfat distribution, again is basically something to blame on Mom and Dad...

**DBarcelo** · 10-04-2003, 04:43 PM

I was having a hard time getting back into this forum for some reason when the last post was put up. But anyway, I was going to say that I tried the reverse grip. Everyone already said that it doesn't look like that would work, but just to let you know anyway, I felt most of the stress in the delts, secondary stress on the tris and my chest did pump up, but it was mainly from my arms pushing the pec muscles out of the way so I could extend them (my arms).

I don't do dips now, but from what I remember they put a good amount of stress on the lower peck.

I'm not 100% sure, but the dumbell flies seem to really stress the outer pec, as long as your arms are high (paralel to your shoulders) and I seem to get more stress if I don't put the dumbells together at the top of the movement, but end the top of the movement with the dumbells over my shoulders.

**DBarcelo** · 10-04-2003, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Warrior

Personally - I don't see how you can work "outer pecs" ... there are no outer pecs. Only a Minor and Major, upper and lower pecs. It's not like trying to target the lower quads cause you DO have seperate lower quads, aka the vastus muscle groups. Muscle shape unfortuantly is largely determined by genetics.

Besides, trying to spot reduce bodyfat does not work - you have to lose bodyfat all together. Bodyfat distribution, again is basically something to blame on Mom and Dad...

If you have any skinny guys in the gym, just look around at them. When you're very thin, you can see it much clearer. There are only two muscles in the chest like you said, the pectoralis major and pectoralis minor, but the pectoralis major in particular can be manipulated more than any other single muscle in the body (that I know of).

Like I was saying about the skinny guys. If you have a guy that only does wide grip benches for example, they will have a very broad look to their chest. If you have a person that does relatively close grip bench press all the time, you will see more defenition in the middle of the chest, but they won't normally look very broad at all. When they have their arms close together, you'll even see striations in the center of the chest.

That pectoralis major is also one of the most oddly shaped muscles in the human body, it kind of looks like a hand fan. The muscle meets under the arm and then fans out to the rib cage, connecting to the upper six ribs. I think it's because of the odd shape that allows you to concentrate on one area of the muscle more than the other, even though it's one muscle and you can't do that with any other muscle in your body.

**chicamahomico** · 10-04-2003, 04:58 PM

I would go with a medium grip babell decline bench presses followed by dips with a 45 degree forward lean.

**Warrior** · 10-05-2003, 04:18 PM

DBarcelo - Never heard of that before. Where does this info come from? Its an interesting theory but personally I think if you get better seperation in your "outer chest" it is from a combination of lower bodyfat as well as basic hypertrophy of the muscle. And switching to a new movement in the hopes of working the "outer pecs" could get results from basic shocking principles on the muscle group as well as the trainee getting more motivated about a new movement - changes in an old routine generally bring results via stimualting more fiber recruitment and better CNS involvement (a renewed feeling about training).

I am not saying your wrong - I just can't recall any reputible sources that follow that type of thinking.

I have heard of the ability to expand a ribcage to broader porportions in adolecent bodybuilders (especially via pullovers) - but after maturation (post puberty) it's not possible to get a broader look other than through general muscular hypertrophy... and how the muscle body develops is based on your genetic patterns... aka - not everyone can "mold" themselves a chest like Arnold. Look at a photo from the Mr Olympia line up - those guys have great genetics in muscle shape (I always thought Flex Wheeler had the best shape - but anyway...) and they all look unique...

You might be right though - I just never come across that before. By this theory it should be possible to reshape all fan shaped muscle groups (pecs are not the only one that falls into this category)...

**DBarcelo** · 10-05-2003, 06:30 PM

My information comes from my training in physiology which included med school at NYU, research studies and personal experience.

The second part of your comment is of course just basic muscle growth and allowing for the muscle to be seen better.

I believe that I did say that parts of what I wrote was just theory.

I never said anything about expanding the actual ribcage, and I do happen to believe that it's not entirely impossible to expand the ribcage after your bones have fused, but it can only be done to a very mild extent. In any case, you can give the illusion of being wider by enlarging certain muscles such as the delts and the part of the chest muscle that connects under the arms otherwise known as the point of origin for the pectoralis major.

I still maintain that the pectoralis major is the only muscle with that particular shape. There are muscles in the back that are kind of simular, but not quite fan shaped.

I do admit that I can be wrong, that's the whole idea of a theory, it stands to be disproven.

I think I'm coming off as though I'm attacking you, but if that's the impression I'm giving, I just want to let you know that I'm not. All due respect is intended.

In any case, If you look at a person with a very well developed chest and a very low body fat, you can see in the striation of the pec that it looks like there are actually three distincly different muscles that make up the pec. That can best illustrate what I was talking about and what I mean about that muscle group being unique. When looking at the muscle post mortum, you see the muscles of the pectoralis major converge in one narrow spot and then spider out to the center of the rib cage, normally within the upper six ribs. That's not a simple connection like that of the bicep where there is one bulk of connective tissue at one end and one bulk of connective tissue at the other end. I believe it's that network of connections to the rib cage that allows for certain spots of the muscle to be isolated and developed independently, i.e., the outer pec muscle apposed to the inner pec muscle.

To further illustrate my point, you can take a certain excercise method into consideration. If you have a sticking point in your bench press, you should do very short movements within that range of the sticking point. By only working within that sticking point, you are developing that particular section of the pectoralis in order to allow you to be able to pass that one spot that you are weak. Beyond that point, you will be able to lift the weight all the way up, because the rest of your pec can handle the load with no problem, it was just that one spot in the motion that you had trouble with. Of course that could also be affected by weaker support muscles, but on the whole, the theory is sound.

And yes, genetics does play a large role in the shape of your chest (FYI there is a syndrome that I forget the name of right now, but it leaves a person being born without one or both pectoralis muscles). Work out style also plays a large role in the shape of the chest, that's why it's good to encorperate several chest rutines and not just rely on only one such as only doing flat barbell benchpresses.

**LittleNate** · 10-05-2003, 06:42 PM

flat or slight decline flys

**Warrior** · 10-06-2003, 06:08 PM

Its an interesting idea. And I'll agree to disagree.

But I like it when threads get nice and meaty like this! Lots of good info develops as well as new ideas and theories (I wish I had my books with me

)

I just have to add one more thing in regards to this...

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

Work out style also plays a large role in the shape of the chest, that's why it's good to encorperate several chest rutines and not just rely on only one such as only doing flat barbell benchpresses.

I subscribe to the idea that it is good to incorporate a few movements to hit the different muscle groups in the Chest (upper and lower) and also to recruit maximum fiber recruitment. Getting maximum muscle stimulation (EMG studies can show which movements are the most, overall effective - but no one movement give 100 percent recruitment) allows for maximum hypertrophy. If I did Flat Barbell Press, Incline Dumbell Press and Flyes - it safe to say I have recruited a very large share of the pectoralis major and minor...