Female Blood Work prior to 1st cycle

[Brett N]

My wife is going to run a cycle of Anavar in the beginning of 2014. We want to make sure we get the proper blood work done prior so we have something to compare to afterwards. I am fairly familiar with the male tests but not so much with the female.

Her diet is on cue, weight trains 4x a week and mild cardio every day. She weighs in at 118 and is 5'3. She is 35 years old. Hard for me to say her bodyfat but she is fairly toned, not big muscular but lean muscular.

Dosing for cycle -

2.5mg Day 1 and 2
5mg day Day 3-7
10mg - Day 8-49
5mg - Day 50-54
2.5 - Day 55 and 56

She will also be taking fish oil, D3, and Nac 600mg 2x a day.

Any input is appreciated on any part of this post but the blood work is my biggest issue at this time.

[Lunk1]

I will agree with the idea of starting low and working her way up if she tolerates the dosage well but there is no reason to ramp back down. Get to a stable dose and keep blood levels stable.

Bloodwork? There is a nice write up I believe in the TRT section for women, I will see if I can locate it (I try to stay out of there cause those old guys can be cranky lol). Test, progesterone, dhea, estrogen, thyroid, lipids, cbc...off the top of my head.

[bass]

what is she trying to achieve? at 118 lbs 5'3" seem kind of slim already var at 10 mgs ed is not going to put any muscles on her, so not sure what the goal is.

[Brett N]

She was hoping to put on some muscle to help tone her body more. You don't think the var will do that? Is it the dosage or the fact that she is already small? From what he have read, anavar should help to maintain leanness and build muscle.

As far as the ramping down, I thought that was recommended to help decrease the lethargy of coming off the anavar.

[bass]

She was hoping to put on some muscle to help tone her body more. You don't think the var will do that? Is it the dosage or the fact that she is already small? From what he have read, anavar should help to maintain leanness and build muscle.

As far as the ramping down, I thought that was recommended to help decrease the lethargy of coming off the anavar.

Yea i believe the dose is too small, I'd say 20 mgs ed to be effective.

[Lunk1]

Yea i believe the dose is too small, I'd say 20 mgs ed to be effective.

Some women have reactions at doses that high. Many experience good gains in the 5-10mg neighborhood. 25 mg is about as high as many women will push it do to fear of viralization.

[bass]

Some women have reactions at doses that high. Many experience good gains in the 5-10mg neighborhood. 25 mg is about as high as many women will push it do to fear of viralization.

Interesting, my memory is probably fading away, I'll have to refresh my research on this.

[BallSak]

She was hoping to put on some muscle to help tone her body more. You don't think the var will do that? Is it the dosage or the fact that she is already small? From what he have read, anavar should help to maintain leanness and build muscle.

As far as the ramping down, I thought that was recommended to help decrease the lethargy of coming off the anavar.

Is it legal to use that word on this forum????

[Brett N]

It is when referring to women. She is looking for more of a fitness model look and not a bodybuilders look.

We have enough var where we could take it up after a week. I guess we will start with 10 and take it at 2.5mg increases until she feels side effects or we hit 20. Whichever happens first. Keeping the cycle the same length of time.

She will feel the var before too long of taking it from what I have read, not like test where your body needs to adjust. Am I correct in thinking this?

[Brett N]

Just to make sure - do you think that the basic female hormone panel (option 1 in this thread - http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...lood-work.html ) would be sufficient for pre cycle blood work?

Not sure what I would be looking for mid and post cycle. I am assuming I would just want to see everything return to pre cycle level for post blood work but mid cycle I am not sure what I would be looking for besides possible Test levels being too high.

[Brett N]

Any input on the blood test above?

[thisAngelBites]

I do not know much about women taking steroids, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in, but I would say it is not enough. I would think you would want to know about testosterone levels too, and I would do thyroid as well, because you never know what kind of difficulties crop up (from reading on this board for the better part of a year it seems that doing steroids sometimes highlights something that looks like it could have been a preexisting problem instead of just a reaction to a steroid, and then people spend a lot more time and money trying to work out what happened after the fact. I think the incremental cost of doing a more complete work up puts you in a better starting position than trying to reverse engineer things. Truly just an opinion as I am not an expert of any kind.

[Brett N]

So, you're thinking option 5? I laugh because I wonder what kind of look my wife is going to get when she goes in and gets blood work for erectile dysfunction.

I have no issues for paying for the proper test, I just want to make sure I get the right ones. There is not a lot of information on this site for me to access about female steroids. Not sure if the female section has more info on blood work or not.

I am hoping that this question may be forwarded to a female with steroid experience that can guide us in the right direction. The last thing I want to happen is for my wife to not have the correct info later down the road if everything does not work out perfect. We are trying to plan for that exact situation in case it does happen and hopefully all this proper planning will eliminate most of the risks.

[GirlyGymRat]

Bass. Didn't I see that either you or Kelkel had provided a lost or even link to recommended blood panels for gals. I know I have seen something. Can someone find this for Brett and make a recommendations for this situation. ???

[GirlyGymRat]

Here is an excerpt on Steriods and Anavar from the female pink forum. It was originally written by a female mod….

female chemistry is very different and varies from gal to gal, so females must put more effort into research and make informed choses for themselves. Our chemistry is different each gals reaction will be slightly different because of our female hormones.

Any supplement, OTC, prescribed, illegal has to SUPPLEMENT an already existing and functioning diet and training program. No quick fixes. You will not get the results using gear if you don't have a diet and training plan in place that is ALREADY WORKING.

This section will include links to the standard steroid profiles for the technical details, with most of the discussion focused on use, specifically for women. Please note that most steroid profiles are written with men in mind as the target audience and relative to male hormone profiles. Any dosing recommended is not going to be appropriate for women unless otherwise specified.


Here are two articles in general that are worth reading:
o Women and Steroids: Women and Steroids - Steroid .com
o Women and Testosterone : Testosterone in Women - Steroid .com


Anavar (Oxandrolone)
Anavar is probably the most commonly used AAS by women, for physique competition or by women who "want to go to the next level". It might be used by figure competitors for off-season building with an appropriate diet, or during contest prep for cutting, preservation of muscle during a cutting diet, and improved recovery.

Anavar promotes lean muscle mass with minimal sides and occasional water retention. It is a oral steroid, though used in small enough doses that its impact on the liver is minimal for women. It is also attractive to women and beginners who are not interested in dealing with needles. The predictable and minimal sides are also attractive points to those not wanting to deal with the more individual and androgenic sides of most other AAS.

* Profile: Anavar - Steroid.com

Typical Cycle
o Dose: 10 mg / day - split the dose 1/2 in the AM, 1/2 in the PM
o Duration: 10-14 weeks
o No need to taper down the dose or follow with post cycle therapy (PCT).
o It is generally suggested to start the cycle at 5 mg / day (splitting doses as above) for the first 10-14 days to identify any adverse reaction. After that time, you can increase to 10 mg / day.

o Suggested maximum dose is 20 mg / day (though more is not better - often 10 mg is sufficient). As the dose increases, sides may increase and results don't necessarily increase. Anecdotally, if the cycler is interested in going to doses above 20 mg, the sides can begin to accumulate and the impact on your liver becomes more of a consideration. Based on this and the cost (anavar is typically one of the more expensive compounds), if you are looking for more aggressive results, this is the point where people will move to a more aggressive, cheaper, injectable compound.

Typical Sides
o interrupted period / flow - may take a few months for the flow to come back as normal. Note this does NOT mean you won't get pregnant.
o you may still experience usual menstrual sides (cramps, bloating, etc.) on your regular menstrual schedule
o mild acne
o Clitoral enlargement and increased sensitivity
o oily hair
o some experience water retention (though not due to aromatization)
o may cause vaginosis / yeast infection (most any AAS has this potential)
o occasionally people experience nose bleeds

[GirlyGymRat]

links
http://forums.steroid.com/members-cy...l#.UUPngNq9Kc0
http://forums.steroid.com/members-cy...og-female-1st-
http://forums.steroid.com/members-cy...l#.UUPngNq9Kc0

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...l#.UUPn7dq9Kc0

[Brett N]

Kelkel did link me a blood work test by pm - Female Comprehensive Hormone Panel Blood Test

I tried to find a similar test on privatemd but had a hard time finding one or two that came close to matching. I send them an email to see what different tests I would have to bundle to get the proper blood work. Going by the link, not going to be very cheap.

I haven't had time to read the links yet, Going to start reading them now. Thanks for all of the input and help.

[GirlyGymRat]

Brett, AFTER reading the post and your wife's stats, she is very lean. without having a pic or measurements, seems she really doesn't need to cut anymore. SHE NEEDS TO GAIN MUSCLE and therefore I am even more interested in what her TRAINING plan for building muscle. I am less interested in her cardio and much much more interested in her LIFTING routine.

Personally, I would put the AAS discussion aside until she with your help get a solid training plan established and up and running. My humble opinion. She can achieve a lot of muscle naturally. Personally i prefer natty as long as possible even tho I have all the supplies for my cycle waiting patiently for me

She was hoping to put on some muscle to help tone her body more. You don't think the var will do that? Is it the dosage or the fact that she is already small? From what he have read, anavar should help to maintain leanness and build muscle.

As far as the ramping down, I thought that was recommended to help decrease the lethargy of coming off the anavar.

[Brett N]

She has done 2 rounds of P90X in the last 2 years along with various other workouts of that nature. Did Insanity for a little while but she then wanted to start lifting weights, from my encouragement.

She started out with Starting Strength routine 3 times a week doing squats, deadlifts, shoulder press and bench. This she did for a couple months and then she wanted to switch to the Wendler's 5/3/1 workout which is what I do. It is supplemented with pullups, chinups, shrugs, romanian deadlift, bent over rows and dips. The workout comes before the cardio on all but rest days. Usually lifting in early am and cardio in pm 12 hours later. She also works construction as a commercial painter (might not mean too much but shes burning calories there too)

Cardio on elliptical 4-6 times a week

I can post the exact workout later. I honestly think the reason she has never gone the muscle is because she has never really eaten to bulk.

Macros (approximate because she does a variety of different meats)

30 grams fat
140 grams protein
115 grams carbs

Approximately - 1300 - 1425 calories

Fat is from whole eggs, peanut butter, fish oil and lean meat.
Carbs are from brown rice, red potatoes and healthy living bread on occasion.
Protein is chicken, lean pork, egg whites, whole eggs, sometimes lean ground beef and one protein shake in am with 8oz 1% milk.

Just a note - she isn't 100% set on the cycle and I have mentioned that maybe she should train for another year first. We most definitely aren't just going to jump into her doing a cycle without being educated, prepared and ready. Even if that does take all of 2014.

[DexterMorgan]

Some women have reactions at doses that high. Many experience good gains in the 5-10mg neighborhood. 25 mg is about as high as many women will push it do to fear of viralization.

Agreed.
Some women make good progress with 5mg-10mg. 20 is a lot, I've heard pros use less than 20. But of course some won't respond as well as others.

[GirlyGymRat]

She has done 2 rounds of P90X in the last 2 years along with various other workouts of that nature. Did Insanity for a little while but she then wanted to start lifting weights, from my encouragement.

She started out with Starting Strength routine 3 times a week doing squats, deadlifts, shoulder press and bench. This she did for a couple months and then she wanted to switch to the Wendler's 5/3/1 workout which is what I do. It is supplemented with pullups, chinups, shrugs, romanian deadlift, bent over rows and dips. The workout comes before the cardio on all but rest days. Usually lifting in early am and cardio in pm 12 hours later. She also works construction as a commercial painter (might not mean too much but shes burning calories there too)

Cardio on elliptical 4-6 times a week

I can post the exact workout later. I honestly think the reason she has never gone the muscle is because she has never really eaten to bulk.

Macros (approximate because she does a variety of different meats)

30 grams fat
140 grams protein
115 grams carbs

Approximately - 1300 - 1425 calories

Fat is from whole eggs, peanut butter, fish oil and lean meat.
Carbs are from brown rice, red potatoes and healthy living bread on occasion.
Protein is chicken, lean pork, egg whites, whole eggs, sometimes lean ground beef and one protein shake in am with 8oz 1% milk.

Just a note - she isn't 100% set on the cycle and I have mentioned that maybe she should train for another year first. We most definitely aren't just going to jump into her doing a cycle without being educated, prepared and ready. Even if that does take all of 2014.

Brett. I have to agree with your conclusion. She is not eating enuff to bulk especially given her active training schedule and physically demanding occupation. She has to eat and train to gain muscle.

The scale. I hate my scale. Hate is such a strong emotion and I HATE my scale. That damn number drives me bananas as does most girls. And it bugs me even more bc I KNOW better. The number doesn't matter. Your wife will put on muscle and the number will likely get higher but she will be healthier and look better. It's all psychological. Measurements and pics are more important and I still hate on my scale. Lol.

I am interested in this Wendler's 5/3/1 workout routine. Never heard of it before. Thanks for mentioning!