(Another) Beginner First Cycle Test E Log

Hi all

Firstly a bit of a background on myself. I’m 27 and have been training since I was 16. I was heavily overweight my entire childhood up until the time I finally made exercise a daily thing. I’m 6’5” and 97kg (213lb).

I don’t know exactly what it was but I recently took an interest in AAS. Being overweight through my childhood and not having wonderful genetics I have never had great confidence in myself. I’ve found over the last couple of years even with playing around with diet and training regimes I seem to have hit a bit of a plateau, or my “genetic limit” if you will. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% sure I could have put more into my diet and training and got some results but no matter how much effort I put in it’s always going to be limited. I guess the purpose of exploring AAS is as much to get me completely focused on my training and diet again, aside from the obvious physiological effects of the substances.

After doing a lot of research I’ve decided to go with the usual newbie cycle of 500mg Test E per week. Split into two injections per week. Aromasin 12.5mg ed and HCG 250iu twice weekly.

The first thing I’d like to offer advice on is the injections themselves. I’m 4 pins in and I’m lucky in that I haven’t experienced any PIP at all so far. So many beginners seem to deal with hell when it comes to PIP so I’m glad. I’ve done all my pins in the glutes, alternating sides from one injection to the next. Initially I thought for sure the thigh would be easiest, apparently it is for access but doesn’t take AAS as well as the glutes. I will be continuing with glutes for the rest of the cycle, why fix it if it ain’t broke?

Effects so far
Now being I’m only 10 days in it’s still too early on for me to have any sign of any real effects from the Test. However there are a couple of things I’ve noticed that I’ll list below.
- The night of my first injection I had a terrible restless sleep and had heaps of weird dreams. It felt like my body was in flux with new hormones running through it. This might’ve been in my head though as I haven’t experienced it since.
- 2-3 days after the first injection I realised I was noticeably hungrier than I usually am, even while eating a normal amount I was still hungry.
- Every now and then I will get a bit hot, seems to come and go and I will sweat a bit, nothing major at all it just seems like I’m running a bit hotter than usual.
- Intensity of my workouts seem to have gone up. I first noticed what felt like a change 4 days after he first pin. Again, this could be placebo, but it felt real. Lifts haven’t improved so far but intensity is definitely up.

So far I’ve put on about 2-3kg (3-5lb). I feel like I’m looking a bit fuller but it’s really hard to tell and I’m not someone who’s going to take progress photos every day, maybe every week or two I’ll take some for reference. I was on a keto diet before going on cycle but after a lot of feedback I’ve decided to go back to a clean eating well rounded diet including plenty of carbs around workout time.

Things I’ve learnt so far:
- Inject into glutes and start with Test E for first cycle, apparently Test E is one of the smoothest compounds so until you are a seasoned vet I think Test E in the glutes twice weekly is probably the go.
- Needle choice. I went for 25G x 1” needles. I’m thinking of purchasing some 23G x 1.5” as this will make drawing easier (25G takes forever) and 1.5” length will ensure better penetration in the glutes. 1” is fine for other areas, for now I’m just making sure I inject as deep as possible with the current needle.
- I purchased 18G blunt fill needles, hoping that would make drawing easier. However blunt fill needles are only for use with ampules, as they can’t pierce the top of a reusable vial of Test E, so I stuffed up. One of those newbie errors that I won’t make again. If I get a different 18G needle for drawing it won’t be a “blunt” needle.

So that’s pretty much what I’ve got to offer so far. I’ll try and keep this log going to completion and at least make it semi coherent, it seems a lot of people struggle with basic English and explaining events/effects haha. I won’t post all the time, only when I think I have enough to justify an update. I’m hoping I can maybe help some newbies through the errors I make so others can avoid the same problems! There’s so many little ins and outs and details about this process that many people with no experience with needles and compounds etc can mess up, so hopefully someone gets something out of this.

Day 13 Update
Something I've noticed over the past few days is I seem to be recovering a lot quicker than usual. While on the cycle I've gone back to a style of training program I gave a go a year ago which I quite liked, it has crazy amounts of volume and a few supersets for intensity etc. but mostly it's focused around pretty high reps.

Last year when I did this program naturally (without AAS) I was in a world of pain after specific days like the leg day on day 1 of the week. What I have noticed this week is with the intensity and workload I'm putting in at the gym I could usually expect to be much sorer than I am. I have been worried after a few workouts that I was going to struggle to move the next day but then I was surprisingly fine. I would attribute this to the steroids starting to take effect.

No real improvement in lifts so far, although I haven't really tried as I'll just be following a linear progression. I have noticed that I can certainly bust out a lot more reps than usual. For example on bench press (an area I've been terribly weak with due to shoulder injuries and a few other factors) I had 80kg (about 190-200lb) on yesterday and previously I would've probably got about 5 solid reps before my weak spots would start to pull me up. Yesterday I was able to do 5 sets of 10 just starting to tire at the end, but noticeably better than a few weeks ago in terms of muscular endurance.

Keen to see how things progress, in a week or two I should be getting in the zone where things will start to happen!

Weight is increasing significantly. I’m happy because you always have doubts as to whether the gear is real or you are administering it properly, so to see that and my strength increasing already is awesome. I’m up to 102.7kg (226lb).

One thing I have noticed in the last couple of days is a little bit of nipple sensitivity/puffiness. I don’t think it’s just in my head, and the fact my weight is rising rapidly I think estrogen levels might be a bit high. I’m going to up the Aromasin to 12.5mg twice daily and see if that helps.

25mg of Aromasin daily seems excessive for only 500mg a week of test . if your having nipple issues perhaps throw in a SERM instead of upping your AI too high and crashing your E

Remember it's normal to have nip sensitivity when hormones are in flux. It doesn't automatically mean gyno.

Yeah I’ve just decided to go Aromasin every 16 hours which works if I do 6am, then 10pm, then 2pm the next day then back to 6am and so on so I’m not doubling the dose.

Would Nolva be the go-to SERM and what dosage would you recommend instead of doubling the Aromasin? I don’t think the estrogen is that bad it’s probably just in flux as my body acclimates to everything. Some days I feel a bit sensitive and bloated and then others aren’t too bad, and I’ve read all the info about decent estrogen levels being good for muscle growth so I’m keeping that in mind and don’t want to crash it.

Things are still steadily kicking in with very few negative effects. Workouts have been next level, I’ve found I have more muscular endurance and recovery is still probably one of the most incredible effects I’ve noticed. I can bust out a session that would’ve left me incredibly sore and wake up the next day with minimal soreness, I could almost work out that body part/area the next day.

Weight on day 25 is 104.0kg which means from the start I’ve put on 7kg (15lb) which is crazy. I’ve been eating good amounts of carbs and protein and my diet has been pretty spot on, so things are looking positive. I don’t look fat at all, tried to maintain some cardio so it’s mostly quality weight at the moment.

Can’t wait for the next few weeks. From most accounts it’s weeks 5-6 where everything takes off. I’m happy I haven’t taken anything other than Test. To feel the strength and weight increase already with only Test there would be no need for anything else, this is already a massive and very quick change to my body so just being able to adapt to that is enough. I think people who resort to other add on steroids for first cycles should probably put some more effort into diet and training. That’s what I’ve done so far and seems to be working a treat, I wouldn’t want things to be progressing any quicker than they are.

Weight on day 32 was 106.5kg, meaning a gain of 9.5kg (20lb) so far! That’s pretty incredible, and it’s not fat because I’m still fitting into the same waist of pants as I was at 97kg, so that seems to tell me the weight is going where I want it. I have noticed some slight improvements in vascularity lately as well, also indicating to me that body fat levels don’t seem to be getting out of hand.

I have noticed I feel like a teenager in so many ways. On some days and occasions I seem to be popping random wood which hasn’t happened since my teenage days (never had libido issues but this is uncontrollable wood haha). Also I have noticed I am noticeably more irritable and my temper has shortened recently, things like traffic and stupid drivers etc are getting to me more than they normally would, but hey you take the good with the bad right? At least I’m aware of it so I can take a couple of deep breaths if I notice things getting heated unnecessarily.

Diet has been pretty damn good. Meal prep has been good and I’ve taken Gearheaded’s advice and time most of my carbs around the pari-workout window where they are utilised best, seems to be working great so far. Then usually some protein and green leafy veggies for dinner, no carbs at that time.

Muscular endurance and recovery still the most noticeable improvements in gym work. I seemed to struggle with higher 10-12 rep workouts before this cycle, I would start to struggle at 5, but now these longer sets are much easier.

Also a positive note is just the general feeling of energy. I have long had issues with energy and feeling lethargic and was even at one stage diagnosed with idiopathic hypersomnia (sleepiness with an unknown cause). This has continued with me for most of my adult life. Now I’m still tired at times but am doing much better. Even my girlfriend commented the other day about how much energy I had. The Test E would be worth it’s weight in gold for these effects alone for someone in my position. Makes me think I might’ve had low T for a while but I didn’t get pre-bloods (bad decision I know) but it is something I will keep an eye on post cycle. I wouldn’t be against TRT if it was to help me out, the lethargy and tiredness I used to go through far outweighs the inconvenience of having to pin even forever. So we will see, but for now I’m loving the subtle boost in mood and energy.

Starting weight was 97kg (214lb)
Current weight is 108kg (238lb)
At the end of week 6 I’m up 11kg (24lb)

Gains are still coming but at a more gradual rate. Obviously there have been big weight gains but I still fit into the same waist of pants so that’s good. I never intended my weight to increase just this much so I’ve started incorporating a bit of cardio into things to try and keep things under control and ensure I’m putting on quality weight.

Earlier this week I was feeling good during a back session so I decided to test where my deadlifts were at. I was pretty pumped and kept on stacking on the weights while I was feeling good and managed to lift 200kg (440lb). While this mightn’t seem like a lot to a lot of guys on here it was a win for me. Being extremely tall with long limbs I’m not built to lift heavy weights at all and my estimated max (I didn’t test it) prior to the cycle was 160kg. Of course a lot of the gains have been due to my increased focus and intensity during workouts but the Test is allowing me to exceed what I’ve been capable of previously.

Sides are still limited. Definitely irritable with a shorter temper and I’ve been trying to stay on top of skin cleansing as I’ve noticed some acne but nothing crazy.

Seems like the cycle was going very well bro, any update on how it's going now?

Hey Mikey, I'm glad you asked haha sometimes it seems like these experience logs don't get much attention, although I'm sure a lot of people just browse through to get an idea of what other guys have experienced so hopefully it's worthwhile for people anyway.

Everything has been pretty steady for the last couple of weeks since the last update. Unfortunately I got excited by my strength levels and ended up damaging my back a little. I have had a bulging disk in my lower back for years that comes and goes, the week after I deadlifted 200kg I walked into the gym like I owned the place and was all pumped up, chucked probably more weight on than I needed too early and pushed for too many reps and twinged it a little. I've still been able to keep into my routine I've just had to drop the deadlifts and squats as they are the two things that aggravate it. So I've been pounding the leg press machine and instead of deadlifts I've reverted to increasing my wide-grip lat pulldown workload as I want to focus on thickness in my back and while I can't do deads this seems like the next best thing to focus on. Advice to newbies, DO NOT EGO LIFT! I felt like a champ for a few minutes, but it has caused a bit of pain and I've had to work around it for weeks now, not worth it.

Weight has stabilised in the 106-108kg (234-238lb) range. I felt like I was putting on some good size and didn't want my weight to balloon out any more so I have incorporated a lot more cardio into my regime lately, particularly fasted cardio first thing in the morning. I get up, have some apple cider vinegar, lemon juice & carnitine then take the dog for a good paced walk for about 40 mins. This seems to be working really well so far, it energises me, has stopped the weight ballooning out and I feel as though I've maybe managed to lean out a little bit more.

Blood test results
At the end of week 8 I decided to get blood work done to check where things were at. I got everything including testosterone, cardiac/muscle markers (CK), liver function, renal function, testosterone, oestradiol, iron, glucose, lipids and haematology. I'll list a couple of the more interesting results below, reference ranges are in brackets:

Testosterone - 109.5 (6.0-28.0)
SHBG - 23 (15-50)
Free Testosterone - >2000 (200-600)
CK - 1449 (<201)
Urea - 10.8 (2.5-8.0)
AST - 50 (<41)
ALT - 37 (<51)
Oestradiol - 316 (<150)
Glucose - 4.8 (3.0-5.4)
HDL Cholesterol - 1.3 (>1.0)
LDL Cholesterol - 2.4 (<2.5)
Non-HDL Cholesterol - 2.7 (<3.9)
RBC - 4.75 (4.50-6.50)
White cell count - 5.4 (4.0-11.0)

As you can see from that the gear I have been getting is good! This is a relief for me as you never actually know the quality of any non-prescription compounds you purchase, so to see what I thought I was getting is in fact what I have is a good thing with those test levels through the roof. The elevated CK and AST levels I have had confirmed from a few people are most likely just due to the fact I am doing heavy weight training which is elevating the liver enzyme values. Going by my Urea results I can probably knock a protein shake out of my daily intake as well as I was informed higher Urea levels indicate protein intake is unnecessarily high.

The biggest concern is the high levels of estrogen. I was having 12.5mg Aromasin ed but due to a change in supply I had actually changed over to Arimidex the day after I got these bloods. I was surprised to see estrogen up so high and now have my questions as to whether the Aromasin was legitimate or not. It's appearance and how it was packaged makes me suspicious, but I'm much more confident with the Arimidex. I have gone to Arimidex 0.5mg eod instead of 0.25mg eod because of my elevated estrogen levels. If I was having 12.5mg Aromasin every day and they were at that level then I think I need a bit more AI dosage than the 0.25 Adex eod that most people run. The amount of weight I put on in quick time also made me believe I was high in estrogen from the get-go. I will try 0.5mg Adex eod for a while and see how I feel, if I notice any negatives I'll drop it to 0.25 eod but so far I think I'm feeling a bit better in terms of energy and bloating with the 0.5mg eod dosage.

If anyone in Aus is interested I can provide the details of the doctor I used to get the bloods done. He does everything by teleconference and has a long history of dealing with chemically enhanced athletes so he understands things that might differ because of AAS usage. He was good and went through everything in depth, made a few suggestions to me but said all up I'm one of the lucky ones who seems to be taking to AAS very well with few side effects as my cholesterol and general health is still great. I've just decided to add some flaxseed oil daily into my supplement regime as per his suggestions to keep everything functioning properly, he is a big advocate for raw flaxseed oil over fish oil tablets.

Anyway, sorry for the novel haha thanks to anyone who is following along, I hope people are getting some sort of value out of this. I'll report back soon

This has been an interesting read... thank you so much for sharing

Your BW is great, imho. If not having any negative sides from your estrogen level (assuming it's accurate as standard estradiol can be suspect in men) then I would not go over-board with adex and move it to the opposite end of the spectrum. Your analysis on the other elevated levels is on point.

Great read and great work Jerry!

Thanks Kel. I’ve actually found I have functioned better with higher AI. When having the 12.5 Aromasin or even 0.25eod Adex I found that my energy levels suffered, I started to get very oily skin and got noticeably more acne than usual, probably the worst effect was how moody I was, I can seriously say I felt like a girl on her period just snapping over silly little things and not being able to react rationally to things.

I have tried 0.5eod Adex for two separate periods now and although it does seem like a lot I feel much better on it. Better energy, better skin, less bloat and my mood is much more stable on it. I guess this is the beauty of doing a Test E only first cycle so I can get a grasp on these things as everyone is different. I’m really not trying to get huge or put on every ounce of muscle possible as I’m already a heavy guy being the height I am. So the slight sacrifice in muscle building and size I think is worth it for all those other positives for me. At least I didn’t get any signs of the dreaded gyno even with the elevated Estrogen levels, so that’s a good thing going forward.

My final pin was yesterday. I’ll hopefully weigh myself tomorrow and have an end of cycle weight. I think I’ve lost a kg or two as I’ve been trying to cut a little bit and have used some low dose Clen for the last week to see it’s effect on me. Keep an eye on this space and I’ll have an update soon

Last weekend, just short of 2 weeks after my last pin I decided to start PCT. I felt like absolute rubbish in both my mind and body and attributed this to the fact my testosterone stores were probably running low, although there may have been some other external factors making me feel shitty it seemed like too much of a coincidence that 12 days after my last pin I felt so bad.

The second non-pin week directly before PCT I could feel a definite drop off in intensity at the gym and higher rep sets are becoming a lot more difficult as expected. By the Sunday 12 days after last pin I decided to get onto PCT as the life had been sucked out of me.

I have been using Clen 80mcg/day since 2 days before PCT (currently on my 9th day of it). I’ll make some notes about my experience with Clen at the end of this post.

I experienced DRAMATIC weight loss when I started PCT. The 2 weeks after the last pin my weight stayed constant at 105.5kg which is where I was when I finished the cycle, I weighed myself 5 days later and I was 100.5kg, that’s 5kg (about 11lb) in 5 days! I was shocked and checked on a few different scales to ensure the accuracy and it was right. I have no idea why I lost so much weight so quick. This was my first time using Nolva and a Clomid, if anyone has experienced rapid weight loss after the start of these I would be interested to hear if they are the cause. I’m mainly shocked because I was using Adex on cycle and in the 2 weeks leading up to PCT so it’s not like I wasn’t controlling my estrogen or suddenly have a heap of water weight to lose.

Anyway, I’m not too depressed as it doesn’t seem I have lost any muscle mass, just leaned up a bit. I’m happy that so far my strength has remained steady, I’ve been trying to lift a little heavier than usual to try and hold onto the muscle gains. I could probably lift more on the Test but that’s more a by-product of the increased aggression and intensity, whereas now I feel that is diminished but the strength is still there, for now at least.

At the moment I’m planning on running a standard 4 week PCT. I have felt noticeably better since starting the Nolva and Clomid but that might have been coincidence that I started them at a time when my natural Test might’ve been kicking back into action. I would also like to hear from anyone with similar experiences in that period between end of cycle and PCT, I can’t explain how bad I felt, like I had no life in me and no drive to do anything. Apart from the physical effects it was agony on my mind as I slipped into a temporary depressive state that was reminiscent of a period I went through a couple of years ago, just nowhere near as prolonged.

Clen Notes
- I’ve decided to use Clen during part of my PCT for its anti catabolic effects. I used it for 10 days a couple of weeks ago to see how it went so this is my second round with it.
- I started with 40mcg, then went to 60 and then 80, I have no desire to go above 80mcg/day.
- When I first started it, for about the first 5 or 6 days I thought I was going to have to discontinue it. I was getting the worst, pounding headaches on it and probably the most worrying part was just how heavy my heart beat was, I could feel and hear it in my head and through my body.
- After the first 5 days those effects wore off. I still get a little shaky mid morning when it’s at full effect, and it does make heart beat a little heavier. I haven’t got any energy boost out of it, if anything it makes me feel a bit tweaked and washed out at times.
- Interestingly I haven’t had any signs of increased sweating, which I’m thankful for as it’s summer here. I also haven’t experienced any cramps from it, but I have been supplementing with Taurine just to be sure.
- I can’t stress enough that if you aren’t in good shape stay away from Clen. You can feel, especially initially, the harsh effects it has on your cardiovascular system. Anyone who was overweight and not in shape using Clen to lose weight is crazy and I would recommend against it. It’s a full on drug and I think once I go through the supply I have I won’t worry about it again unless I maybe have something specific I want some short term gains for. I feel there are healthier ways to achieve the same things, may be just a little slower. For now the major side effects have subsided for me so I feel fine on it, but that probably also means it’s losing its effectiveness

This thread has been incredible to read. You know your stuff. I'm in a similar position as you: heavily overweight as a kid and worked it off as I grew up. Thank you so much for sharing.

Are you planning another cycle?

Thanks for posting all this, was a good read for someone looking into doing a cycle (ie myself lol)

Hi all, sorry I haven’t been on here for many months but things got busy and I didn’t look so much into the AAS after my cycle finished.

I don’t know if anyone is still interested but I’ll give a quick run down of where things are at.

It’s now been about 8 months since the cycle finished. I had a bit of a rough time and it took a little longer than expected to get my Test levels to come back to a reasonable level. I even ended up going and seeing an endocrinologist and giving him the run down as I worried I had done some lasting damage. He didn’t seem too concerned and my test levels have mostly come back and I have another blood test scheduled soon to see how everything is.

Part of the tests done was to check my fertility etc to make sure I hadn’t done any damage to that system. I can happily report I’m extremely fertile so even though I felt pretty crappy for a while it doesn’t seem to have done anything more sinister.

I have been able to keep the majority of gains I got during the cycle, I’m a few kg’s up on what I used to be and also kept some strength gains.

I am considering doing another cycle. I must say I do miss that energy and feeling associated with superhuman levels of Test and it’s something I would love to get back again with maybe some more emphasis on PCT next time to avoid the couple of hellish months I experienced after the first cycle.

Currently looking at my options as to whether to take the natural next step and add in some Deca or whether to go something like Var or Winny as I’m not looking to bulk up but would like to harden up and maintain my current weight just with a more desirable composition. I’ll see how things go anyway but it might be time to hop into some research again

good to see you back on here Jerry . can you briefly describe what you exact PCT protocol was

also, you ran HCG on cycle, but you still had trouble recovering natty test levels. Running Deca for you next cycle would probably be a very bad idea as that is one of the most difficult compounds to recover from.
I can advise other compounds once I got a better idea of how your pct went on your first one

Hey bro great posts, do you have any before and after pics?

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Originally Posted by ChasinGains

Hey bro great posts, do you have any before and after pics?

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Hey mate I’m glad you’ve got some value out of it. I have some progress pics that I was tossing up whether to post or not but unfortunately I have some pretty distinctive tattoos so I’ve opted against posting photos which is a bummer.

Thanks GH good to hear you’re still on here and active. Regardless of what some people might think I can remember gaining a wealth of knowledge on all things AAS from you when I was active before.

My PCT went the standard Nolva 40/20/20/20 and Clomid 100/50/50/50 started just under 2 weeks after the last pin. Definitely all ears if you think there are better substances for me than Deca, I was only really looking into it because it’s the “normal” progression for a second cycle, plus I liked the idea of the therapeutic benefits it has. In terms of my goals and the look I’m going for it probably actually isn’t even the best option. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

For gardening up and recomp (gaining a bit
Of muscle and losing fat while staying same weight) id reccomend test with mast instead of
Tren due to you being too new for tren unless you are set on the idea which you don’t seem to be.

Masteron at 600mg and test at 500/600mg would be great. Masteron enhances test in numerous ways such as lowering SHGB and increasing free test. True that masteron isn’t powerful on its own but extremely synergistic with test.

Could possible add in anavar with the mast and test

Thanks for the input Kay Kay. I’ve had a bit of a look at Mast and it looks pretty good for what I’m trying to accomplish. I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to use Tren just yet, part of the magic of AAS I experienced during my first cycle was just feeling good and energetic and I really didn’t see any bad side effects so the possibility of insomnia and agitation in someone like myself who has a mild history of anxiety doesn’t sound ideal if there are other options like Mast.

If I were to run Mast I would assume Mast Prop would be the go with injections e2d? For what portion of the cycle and how long should it be run?

Very well documented! Great log sir!

I would run mast prop with test prop injecting eod for any length of time you desire your cycle to be, I’d reccomend 6-10 weeks for you.

No need to only run the mast for part of it, it works very synergistically with test and is one of my favourite compounds. Just started my test tren and mast run a couple days ago!

If you’re looking for some lean gains or recomping effect, I suggest 1.5cc test prop and 1.5cc mast prop EOD assuming they’re both 100mg/ml. This will give you 525mg per week. Keep in mind 500mg of test prop is a little stronger than 500mg of test e due to ester weight, so I feel 525mg of each is a perfect progression for you without going overboard!

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Originally Posted by Kay kay

I would run mast prop with test prop injecting eod for any length of time you desire your cycle to be, I’d reccomend 6-10 weeks for you.

No need to only run the mast for part of it, it works very synergistically with test and is one of my favourite compounds. Just started my test tren and mast run a couple days ago!

If you’re looking for some lean gains or recomping effect, I suggest 1.5cc test prop and 1.5cc mast prop EOD assuming they’re both 100mg/ml. This will give you 525mg per week. Keep in mind 500mg of test prop is a little stronger than 500mg of test e due to ester weight, so I feel 525mg of each is a perfect progression for you without going overboard!

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Fuckin random ass shit.

Good to hear your feedback Obs, I know you’re not afraid to rip in if someone is being an idiot so your positive feedback is great hahaha

Test and Mast is looking like a good possibility at the moment. Is there much difference/advantage in running Test P over Test E? I’m quite happy to go with Test E as per my first cycle, then add in the Mast P to the mix.

Would Var add much to the mix or work synergistically and allow lower dosages of Test/Mast? Looking on some feedback surrounding that, also regarding what dosage and timeframe to run it. I will probably just end up going Test/Mast but am keen to explore all options.

Also keen to hear your feedback GH, let us know when you have a chance to chime in

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Originally Posted by Jerry2020

Good to hear your feedback Obs, I know you’re not afraid to rip in if someone is being an idiot so your positive feedback is great hahaha

Test and Mast is looking like a good possibility at the moment. Is there much difference/advantage in running Test P over Test E? I’m quite happy to go with Test E as per my first cycle, then add in the Mast P to the mix.

Would Var add much to the mix or work synergistically and allow lower dosages of Test/Mast? Looking on some feedback surrounding that, also regarding what dosage and timeframe to run it. I will probably just end up going Test/Mast but am keen to explore all options.

Also keen to hear your feedback GH, let us know when you have a chance to chime in

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I am a little different than I was. You won't see me ripping in to anyone again unless I am kidding around in the castle thread.

I like prop in sustanon but straight it does not agree with my muscles. Though I feel like it has more kick.

Anyone who put as much as you are into the detail of this deserves praise buddy.

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Originally Posted by Jerry2020

Hey mate I’m glad you’ve got some value out of it. I have some progress pics that I was tossing up whether to post or not but unfortunately I have some pretty distinctive tattoos so I’ve opted against posting photos which is a bummer.

Thanks GH good to hear you’re still on here and active. Regardless of what some people might think I can remember gaining a wealth of knowledge on all things AAS from you when I was active before.

My PCT went the standard Nolva 40/20/20/20 and Clomid 100/50/50/50 started just under 2 weeks after the last pin. Definitely all ears if you think there are better substances for me than Deca, I was only really looking into it because it’s the “normal” progression for a second cycle, plus I liked the idea of the therapeutic benefits it has. In terms of my goals and the look I’m going for it probably actually isn’t even the best option. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

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No one is judging bro, also I doubt I would ever see you, I'm in Liverpool Uk

Hey yeah not worried about being judged but there’s the possibility I may have a somewhat public profile in the future and AAS use could threaten that, better to be safe than sorry.

well we still don't know exactly what the cause was of your hindered ability to recover natty production from your first cycle. perhaps your prolactin was elevated, perhaps your AI was bunk (or maybe you didn't even run one going into your pct) and your estrogen was quite elevated and that hindered recovery (as Estrogen is responsible for HPTA shut down, and elevated blood levels of estrogen will keep you shut down).

SO.. without knowing that precisely, but knowing you did have an issue with recovery. I would stay away from ALL progesterone based compounds (like deca, tren, npp, ment) and run a "limited aromatizing' based cycle. basically a cycle that has your HPTA recovery in mind from start to finish.

so this is basically going to be a strong anabolic based cycle. we need to keep aromatization low (naturally, not just with AI's) so we need to run a low dose of Test. BUT we also want to have some androgenic activity going on as well (which is usually there with higher doses of test).
so enter, MASTERON . this will give you the perfect balance of some androgenic activity while also being a strong anabolic (whereas some anaboics have very little androgenic qualities). ALSO, Masteron is going to act to blunt both estrogen and prolactin to a degree (this will help you recover as well as limit side effects on cycle). AND it will lower SHBG and thus allow you to make more use out of the small dose of test you are taking.

so I'm looking at something like
200mg test e per week for 10 weeks
600mg mast per week for 10 weeks

but I'm not done yet .. we need just a bit more anabolic activity here. Mast has a lot of qualities, but its not the strongest stand alone anabolic by any means.
so , lets throw in some Var

now it looks like this

weeks 1-10
test 200mg per week
mast 600mg per week

weeks 8-12
Var 50mg per day
Arimidex .5mg 3x per week


ok now why do we have test and mast stopping at week 10, yet var going into week 12 and why is var not used at the beginning of the cycle for a kick start instead of at the end.
well.... remember we want to focus this cycle on the idea of recovering HPTA. we don't want to struggle to restart like last time.
so we limit the one estrogenic compound here, ie, test, to only 10 weeks. we limit the mast, being your androgenic base to 10 weeks as well..
these things will still remain in the blood stream and taper off. while that is happening we use VAR which is a pure anabolic, it has very little androgenic properties and no estrogenic. its only mildly suppressive .. so its going to carry you the couple more weeks of your cycle going into PCT to keep anabolism going. AND the AI is in there with it because as this cycle comes to a close we need aromatization into estrogen from the lingering test to be stopped as we go into pct .

PCT begins at the end of week 12 .. so you don't have a 2-3 week long down time , your able to go right from your cycle right into pct and begin recovery of natty test..

now lets get that pct dialed in
from week 2-10 you'll run 250iu of HCG at least 2x per week
from week 10-12 you'll run 500iu of HCG 3x per week
then your standard clomid/nolva pct.


pretty simple cycle and very side effect free, will illicit good gains but not totally rip your natty test production apart (should be able to recover)

Wow :cheers:

I feel like I should be paying for that info haha thanks GH.

So there would be no need for an AI or SERM for the 1-10 week phase of the cycle as that low Test dose combined with the E blunting properties of Mast should keep things under control? Of course I will have it on hand if needed, but won’t plan on using it?

Once again, thanks for your help, something I’m sure a lot of other guys can get some value out of as well.

Outstanding stuff brother, great read.

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Originally Posted by Jerry2020

Hi all

Firstly a bit of a background on myself. I’m 27 and have been training since I was 16. I was heavily overweight my entire childhood up until the time I finally made exercise a daily thing. I’m 6’5” and 97kg (213lb).

I don’t know exactly what it was but I recently took an interest in AAS. Being overweight through my childhood and not having wonderful genetics I have never had great confidence in myself. I’ve found over the last couple of years even with playing around with diet and training regimes I seem to have hit a bit of a plateau, or my “genetic limit” if you will. Don’t get me wrong, I am 100% sure I could have put more into my diet and training and got some results but no matter how much effort I put in it’s always going to be limited. I guess the purpose of exploring AAS is as much to get me completely focused on my training and diet again, aside from the obvious physiological effects of the substances.

After doing a lot of research I’ve decided to go with the usual newbie cycle of 500mg Test E per week. Split into two injections per week. Aromasin 12.5mg ed and HCG 250iu twice weekly.

The first thing I’d like to offer advice on is the injections themselves. I’m 4 pins in and I’m lucky in that I haven’t experienced any PIP at all so far. So many beginners seem to deal with hell when it comes to PIP so I’m glad. I’ve done all my pins in the glutes, alternating sides from one injection to the next. Initially I thought for sure the thigh would be easiest, apparently it is for access but doesn’t take AAS as well as the glutes. I will be continuing with glutes for the rest of the cycle, why fix it if it ain’t broke?

Effects so far
Now being I’m only 10 days in it’s still too early on for me to have any sign of any real effects from the Test. However there are a couple of things I’ve noticed that I’ll list below.
- The night of my first injection I had a terrible restless sleep and had heaps of weird dreams. It felt like my body was in flux with new hormones running through it. This might’ve been in my head though as I haven’t experienced it since.
- 2-3 days after the first injection I realised I was noticeably hungrier than I usually am, even while eating a normal amount I was still hungry.
- Every now and then I will get a bit hot, seems to come and go and I will sweat a bit, nothing major at all it just seems like I’m running a bit hotter than usual.
- Intensity of my workouts seem to have gone up. I first noticed what felt like a change 4 days after he first pin. Again, this could be placebo, but it felt real. Lifts haven’t improved so far but intensity is definitely up.

So far I’ve put on about 2-3kg (3-5lb). I feel like I’m looking a bit fuller but it’s really hard to tell and I’m not someone who’s going to take progress photos every day, maybe every week or two I’ll take some for reference. I was on a keto diet before going on cycle but after a lot of feedback I’ve decided to go back to a clean eating well rounded diet including plenty of carbs around workout time.

Things I’ve learnt so far:
- Inject into glutes and start with Test E for first cycle, apparently Test E is one of the smoothest compounds so until you are a seasoned vet I think Test E in the glutes twice weekly is probably the go.
- Needle choice. I went for 25G x 1” needles. I’m thinking of purchasing some 23G x 1.5” as this will make drawing easier (25G takes forever) and 1.5” length will ensure better penetration in the glutes. 1” is fine for other areas, for now I’m just making sure I inject as deep as possible with the current needle.
- I purchased 18G blunt fill needles, hoping that would make drawing easier. However blunt fill needles are only for use with ampules, as they can’t pierce the top of a reusable vial of Test E, so I stuffed up. One of those newbie errors that I won’t make again. If I get a different 18G needle for drawing it won’t be a “blunt” needle.

So that’s pretty much what I’ve got to offer so far. I’ll try and keep this log going to completion and at least make it semi coherent, it seems a lot of people struggle with basic English and explaining events/effects haha. I won’t post all the time, only when I think I have enough to justify an update. I’m hoping I can maybe help some newbies through the errors I make so others can avoid the same problems! There’s so many little ins and outs and details about this process that many people with no experience with needles and compounds etc can mess up, so hopefully someone gets something out of this.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry2020

So there would be no need for an AI or SERM for the 1-10 week phase of the cycle as that low Test dose combined with the E blunting properties of Mast should keep things under control? Of course I will have it on hand if needed, but won’t plan on using it?

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the AI does come into play at week 8 , NOT after week 10 (so it starts when your still running test). but you are correct, no need to run an AI or a SERM to start this cycle off being the test dose is so low and that Masteron has both anti prolactin and anti estrogenic effects (at the receptor level , you'll still get elevation in blood levels of E, which we do want).

a bit of elevation in estrogen levels at the beginning of this cycle is going to be a good thing, promote a sense of well being, and of course add to the anabolic effects of the androgens your running and help with gains (the last thing you want to do is compromise all this good stuff by running an AI from day one)
but yes most definitely always have an AI and a SERM on hand.

and again , estrogen is good for putting on size , but its not good for going into pct and recovering natty test production. thats why we run an AI at the tail end of this cycle going into PCT