3- day routine for massive gains!

[luka5]

The routine is suitable for every natural trainee who wants to bulk and add serious mass.


MONDAY:

Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10 (plates under toes)
Standing Calf Raise 4x10

WED:

Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
EZ bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10

FRI:

Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12



Sets listed are working sets. Use at least 3-4 warm up sets for the first exercise for each bodypart and at
least 1 warm up set for each subsequent exercise for that bodypart. Use the same weight on all working sets. Once you can hit the upper rep range specified for every set of an exercise, increase weights slightly for next time and try again. After 6 weeks, do a deload working with 80% of your max weights for one week and do not take any set to failure.

Rest times can vary between sets. Take as much time as you need to recover and refocus for your next set.
Obviously something like heavy squats will take more time (3-5 minutes) than something like curls (1-2
minutes)

[DanB]

why two types of overhead press? and two types of row?

what about your traps?

only incline for chest?

also virtually nothing for triceps

needs work i.m.o

[SportbikerKid]

IMO, a natty routine should hit every muscle group at least 2x per week.

definitely would not recommend this routine to anyone.

[falco21]

IMO, a natty routine should hit every muscle group at least 2x per week.

definitely would not recommend this routine to anyone.

I have to disagree completely. By working each muscle group twice a week, not only do you put yourself at a much higher risk of overtraining, but in all honesty, the way I work out, it would be physically impossible on my body. One intense enough workout for each muscle group and you wouldn't want to work out that same muscle group again.

You also gotta understand that with each workout, you are technically hitting some muscle groups multiple times. When you hit chest, you are also indirectly hitting shoulders and triceps. With back, you are hitting biceps as well. Think about it. If your hitting your arms while doing a lift for your chest or back, why would you want to pile on a third workout after arm day?

[DanB]

^ ^ ^ ^

correct

[DanB]

no way i could hammer deads or any other lift 2x a week

[falco21]

no way i could hammer deads or any other lift 2x a week

No way could I do any workouts multiple times a week. My chest workout is so exhausting, even if it was smart to do chest again, I wouldn't even want to LOL

[SportbikerKid]

I have to disagree completely. By working each muscle group twice a week, not only do you put yourself at a much higher risk of overtraining, but in all honesty, the way I work out, it would be physically impossible on my body. One intense enough workout for each muscle group and you wouldn't want to work out that same muscle group again.

You also gotta understand that with each workout, you are technically hitting some muscle groups multiple times. When you hit chest, you are also indirectly hitting shoulders and triceps. With back, you are hitting biceps as well. Think about it. If your hitting your arms while doing a lift for your chest or back, why would you want to pile on a third workout after arm day?

I have read that protein synthesis/muscle healing is completely finished in 3-4 days after that muscle is worked. If you're only working a muscle once a week, you're basically missing out on three days of protein synthesis. I used to do the major compound lifts 3x per week, and got excellent progress. Shifted over to 2x per week when my lifts got higher (3 plate bench, 3 plate squat). I use a high-volume, high-intensity routine, and 2x a week has never lead to overtraining.

side note: please do not make fun of squat to bench ratio :/ Squat is low due to circumstances out of my control.

Honestly, I have never seen a natty guy make good progress of 1x per week frequency. If you know of a log that would tell me otherwise, please aware me.

[luka5]

im confused now. people told me my routine is good enough, but now i have doubts. could you suggest sth mates?

[luka5]

what about your traps?

cable rows? deadlfits?

only incline for chest?

and weighted dips

also virtually nothing for triceps

dips and skullcrushers

[falco21]

I have read that protein synthesis/muscle healing is completely finished in 3-4 days after that muscle is worked. If you're only working a muscle once a week, you're basically missing out on three days of protein synthesis. I used to do the major compound lifts 3x per week, and got excellent progress. Shifted over to 2x per week when my lifts got higher (3 plate bench, 3 plate squat). I use a high-volume, high-intensity routine, and 2x a week has never lead to overtraining.

side note: please do not make fun of squat to bench ratio :/ Squat is low due to circumstances out of my control.

Honestly, I have never seen a natty guy make good progress of 1x per week frequency. If you know of a log that would tell me otherwise, please aware me.

You're talking to one. LOL

Not to mention, most likely anyone you come in contact with on here, trains with a 1x per week frequency. There was a forum created not too long ago where you posted your workout split. Go into that forum and see how many train with 2x per week frequency?

Listen, I am no one to tell YOU what YOU should or should not do. I just commented because you stated that you think everyone who is "natty" should train muscle groups 2x per week. All I know is that when I am done with a muscle group, there is no way in hell I could do that muscle group again in that same week! Not to mention, I would overtrain the shit out of myself. Within a couple weeks I would be burnt out like you wouldn't believe.

Also, some people are extremely different. My father, was a body builder when he was younger. He used to train his entire upper body one day, then lower body the next. Then upper body, etc... I think that's insane! But did it work? Obviously LOL Each person has to know their own body. I would definitely recommend though, that someone starts out with a 1x per week frequency and see how it treats them. If you work out each muscle group hard enough, there is no reason for another workout.

Edit: Here's a good read for you that was just posted http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...h#.T0oOIvEgc4Q

[DanB]

cable rows? deadlfits? deadlifts yes but they need more, and cable rows arent ideal unless its a high row which you didnt state, id add shrugs and/or upright rows


and weighted dips, that is primarily working the top of your chest (pectoralis major) I would add decline and some sort of flys, dumbell cable or machine


dips and skullcrushers they dont isolate triceps, cgbp or rope pull downs are better i.m.o and I would add in both

My opinion's are in bold

[crazy_rocks]

You're talking to one. LOL

Not to mention, most likely anyone you come in contact with on here, trains with a 1x per week frequency. There was a forum created not too long ago where you posted your workout split. Go into that forum and see how many train with 2x per week frequency?

Listen, I am no one to tell YOU what YOU should or should not do. I just commented because you stated that you think everyone who is "natty" should train muscle groups 2x per week. All I know is that when I am done with a muscle group, there is no way in hell I could do that muscle group again in that same week! Not to mention, I would overtrain the shit out of myself. Within a couple weeks I would be burnt out like you wouldn't believe.

Also, some people are extremely different. My father, was a body builder when he was younger. He used to train his entire upper body one day, then lower body the next. Then upper body, etc... I think that's insane! But did it work? Obviously LOL Each person has to know their own body. I would definitely recommend though, that someone starts out with a 1x per week frequency and see how it treats them. If you work out each muscle group hard enough, there is no reason for another workout.

Edit: Here's a good read for you that was just posted http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...h#.T0oOIvEgc4Q

i always thought the answer to that would depend on the volume and intensity that is used

[luka5]

ok guys so what about:


MONDAY:

Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10 (plates under toes)
Standing Calf Raise 4x10

WED:

Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Flyes or pec dec 3x8-10
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
EZ bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10
Cable Pressdowns 3x15-20

FRI:

Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12
DB incline curl 3x8-12


better?

[SportbikerKid]

You're talking to one. LOL

Not to mention, most likely anyone you come in contact with on here, trains with a 1x per week frequency. There was a forum created not too long ago where you posted your workout split. Go into that forum and see how many train with 2x per week frequency?

Listen, I am no one to tell YOU what YOU should or should not do. I just commented because you stated that you think everyone who is "natty" should train muscle groups 2x per week. All I know is that when I am done with a muscle group, there is no way in hell I could do that muscle group again in that same week! Not to mention, I would overtrain the shit out of myself. Within a couple weeks I would be burnt out like you wouldn't believe.

Also, some people are extremely different. My father, was a body builder when he was younger. He used to train his entire upper body one day, then lower body the next. Then upper body, etc... I think that's insane! But did it work? Obviously LOL Each person has to know their own body. I would definitely recommend though, that someone starts out with a 1x per week frequency and see how it treats them. If you work out each muscle group hard enough, there is no reason for another workout.

Edit: Here's a good read for you that was just posted http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...h#.T0oOIvEgc4Q

It is interesting how different internet forums have different training protocalls. I frequent another forum and all of the intermediate/advanced natty guys favor training each group 2-3x per week. It does seem like everyone on this forum will recommend training each group only 1x.

That being said, have you given any thought to the fact that all major natty routines have a frequency higher than 1x per week? (PHAT, DC, madcows) In fact, I can't name a mainstream routine that has a 1x per week frequency.

@OP, I recommend that you don't make your own routine. If you're a beginner, I suggest you check out madcows 5x5. If you are intermediate/advanced check out DC training or PHAT. The advantage to using one of those routines is that they have been tried and tested by many people, so they are proved to yield results. They also have set rates of progression that will help you make some great progress.

[slfmade]

It is interesting how different internet forums have different training protocalls. I frequent another forum and all of the intermediate/advanced natty guys favor training each group 2-3x per week. It does seem like everyone on this forum will recommend training each group only 1x.

That being said, have you given any thought to the fact that all major natty routines have a frequency higher than 1x per week? (PHAT, DC, madcows) In fact, I can't name a mainstream routine that has a 1x per week frequency.

@OP, I recommend that you don't make your own routine. If you're a beginner, I suggest you check out madcows 5x5. If you are intermediate/advanced check out DC training or PHAT. The advantage to using one of those routines is that they have been tried and tested by many people, so they are proved to yield results. They also have set rates of progression that will help you make some great progress.

Ever Heard of HIT training??? - That's pretty mainstream and training is only once per week per muscle group.

[SportbikerKid]

Ever Heard of HIT training??? - That's pretty mainstream and training is only once per week per muscle group.

Not sure if serious. High intensity training can be used to describe any intensive routine... There's not really one specific HIT program. I consider myself to be on a high intensity program and I work each muscle group 2x per week.

Strong off topic post anyways. OP's looking for some training advice, so if you're not going to give him advice, you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.

[FireGuy]

I have to disagree completely. By working each muscle group twice a week, not only do you put yourself at a much higher risk of overtraining, but in all honesty, the way I work out, it would be physically impossible on my body. One intense enough workout for each muscle group and you wouldn't want to work out that same muscle group again.

You also gotta understand that with each workout, you are technically hitting some muscle groups multiple times. When you hit chest, you are also indirectly hitting shoulders and triceps. With back, you are hitting biceps as well. Think about it. If your hitting your arms while doing a lift for your chest or back, why would you want to pile on a third workout after arm day?

I agree with your first paragraph but the 2nd one is something I think is tremendously overated. If your biceps are sore or even extremely fatigued after a back workout I can almost assure you your form is way off. Same for goes for delts and triceps on chest training. If you are a powerlifter it's a different story but as a bodybuilder this shouldnt be a problem.

I have read that protein synthesis/muscle healing is completely finished in 3-4 days after that muscle is worked. If you're only working a muscle once a week, you're basically missing out on three days of protein synthesis. I used to do the major compound lifts 3x per week, and got excellent progress. Shifted over to 2x per week when my lifts got higher (3 plate bench, 3 plate squat). I use a high-volume, high-intensity routine, and 2x a week has never lead to overtraining.

side note: please do not make fun of squat to bench ratio :/ Squat is low due to circumstances out of my control.

Honestly, I have never seen a natty guy make good progress of 1x per week frequency. If you know of a log that would tell me otherwise, please aware me.

I competed for over 15 years as a natural bodybuilder and the vast majority of my training was each muscle once every 6-7 days.

i always thought the answer to that would depend on the volume and intensity that is used

Ta Da!

[slfmade]

Not sure if serious. High intensity training can be used to describe any intensive routine... There's not really one specific HIT program. I consider myself to be on a high intensity program and I work each muscle group 2x per week.

Strong off topic post anyways. OP's looking for some training advice, so if you're not going to give him advice, you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.

First off. I was giving him advice by calling you out on your bullshit!

From day 1 you've pissed off just about every respected member on here with that bullshit thread of yours calling out everybody that was on aas that couldn't bench or squat 400lbs natty before they started. So give me a break.

As for High Intensity Training....per Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, etc...if you doing HIT they way you should there's no way in hell you could be working it twice a week. If you can you're not doing it right.

[luka5]

LOL but madcows is even lwoer volume than that routine i posted and you guys said it is too little work in my routine to bulk

[MACHINE5150]

ok guys so what about:


MONDAY:

Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10 (plates under toes)
Standing Calf Raise 4x10

WED:

Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Flyes or pec dec 3x8-10
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
EZ bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10
Cable Pressdowns 3x15-20

FRI:

Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12
DB incline curl 3x8-12


better?

this gets my approval, but throw in 4 sets of leg press on leg day and/or finish it with 15 min on the stair master... you want to work your legs to the point that you have to lean gainst the wall on your way out of the gym.

[SportbikerKid]

I competed for over 15 years as a natural bodybuilder and the vast majority of my training was each muscle once every 6-7 days.

I will keep this in mind. Thanks for letting me know.

I still believe that higher frequency would definitely benefit a beginner (I'm thinking that OP is a beginner even tho he hasn't posted stats). Your thoughts?

BTW, i'm trying to get a 455 bench/600 squat natty. Any random tips that you can give me? Currently at 350/350

[FireGuy]

I will keep this in mind. Thanks for letting me know.

I still believe that higher frequency would definitely benefit a beginner (I'm thinking that OP is a beginner even tho he hasn't posted stats). Your thoughts?

BTW, i'm trying to get a 455 bench/600 squat natty. Any random tips that you can give me? Currently at 350/350

I agree 100%. It usually takes years for someone to develop the skill and mind muscle connection to get to a intensity level where once a week workouts are suffecient. Until this level is reached the only way to make up for intensity level is through increased volume.

Sorry, no tips on the bench or squat, both those numbers are more than I ever attained in either lift.

[gmantheman]

ok guys so what about:


MONDAY:

Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Stiff leg Deads 4x10 (plates under toes)
Standing Calf Raise 4x10

WED:

Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Flyes or pec dec 3x8-10
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
EZ bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10
Cable Pressdowns 3x15-20

FRI:

Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12
DB incline curl 3x8-12


better?

It's better but here are few suggestions. Almost the same ones I gave you on bb.com
Mon: drop the leg ext and replace with a 1 legged movement.
Wed: Drop the barbell or dumbbell press. No need for both
Drop the flys
Drop one of the tricep movements. Dips, incline press and barbell/dumbbell press are hitting your tris.
Fri:
Put deads first and do sets of 3-5 reps
drop either the cable or barbell rows
drop one of the curls

[falco21]

I agree with your first paragraph but the 2nd one is something I think is tremendously overated. If your biceps are sore or even extremely fatigued after a back workout I can almost assure you your form is way off. Same for goes for delts and triceps on chest training. If you are a powerlifter it's a different story but as a bodybuilder this shouldnt be a problem.\

No I think you took it the wrong way, or I in fact worded it wrong. I am not saying at all that my biceps and triceps are fatigued after chest and back day. What I was implying is that by hitting your chest and back hard, the other muscle groups are being worked. The secondary muscles are not anywhere near fatigued. Basically, certain muscles in your arms will be hit when doing chest and back. Then you have a specific day for arms as well.

Believe me, if my arms were fatigued after doing chest and back, I would definitely know there was a problem LOL

[mirin_serratus]

no way i could hammer deads or any other lift 2x a week

lol you mad the strongest guys i know squat 3x a week on top of deads?

[luka5]

now i am confused. some of you tell me that i need more volume:

what about your traps?

only incline for chest?

also virtually nothing for triceps

needs work i.m.o

and when i add volume some of you tell me to lower volume...

Mon: drop the leg ext and replace with a 1 legged movement.
Wed: Drop the barbell or dumbbell press. No need for both
Drop the flys
Drop one of the tricep movements. Dips, incline press and barbell/dumbbell press are hitting your tris.
Fri:
Put deads first and do sets of 3-5 reps
drop either the cable or barbell rows
drop one of the curls

this gets my approval, but throw in 4 sets of leg press

but when i dont have leg press machine ? walking lunges?

[luka5]

ok so i added only little volume

MONDAY: Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Walking Lunges w/ heavy DBs 1xfailure
Stiff leg Deads 4x10
Standing Calf Raise 4x10

WED: Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
Cambered bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10
Cable Pressdowns 3x15-20

FRIDAY: Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12


i bolded changes and please tell if they are are ok or not. weighted dips are for chest. coming down very low and not locking on the top. knees in front of me and leaning forawrd. chest puffed out.

[luka5]

Facepulls, TYW, Scapula retractions, etc.

fresh news! i will probably also make it to a gym on tuesday. so in that case would this be better:






MONDAY: Squats 5x5-10
Leg Extensions: 3x15
Walking lunges 3x10-12
Stiff leg Deads 4x10


TUESDAY: Incline DB Press 4x6-10
Weighted Dips 4x6-10
Incline Fly 4x6-10
Cambered bar Skullcrushers 4x6-10


THURSDAY: Weighted Chins 3x4-6
BB Rows 3x6-8
Deadlifts 3x8-10
Cable rows 3x10-12
BB Curl 4x8-12


FRIDAY: Seated BB Press 3x6
Seated DB Press 2x8-10
Leaning Laterals 2-3x10-12
Standing Calf Raise 4x12


?