Solution to the "ethical issue" of "cheating using steroids"? Is there one?

[SteroidsLegalized]

Hey guys, first of all I'd like to introduce myself.

I'm a university student in the field of Kinesiology (science of exercise and it's effects on human body) and I'm doing a research project on "cheating in Olympics"

Obviously a big part of my research is based on steroids is ethically it is deemed as "cheating" and not "fair way to play any sports"

My issue, however, is there a real solution to this problem? If the Steroid Control Pact of 2004 was removed and Steroids were legalized, wouldn't it case more problems?

Examples of problems:
- abuse at younger age (put age restriction like alcohol?)
- Drug race (every country spending millions in steroid research to have the best athlete at olympics)
- Hard to cope with truth, many riots and media that would be against it, .... Paradigm shift?
- hard to regulate amounts in pro athletes

I've talked to my professor right after we had a lecture on steroids (and he, honestly, does not deem steroids as illegal, or should be illegal) and he told me that playing "fair" is still not "fair" to poorer countries who are trying to compete on olympics - they don't have as many physicians and professional trainers that richer countries can afford.

Olympics are all about showing off the country's power and dominance. What role do Steroids play here?
I mean Eastern Germans dominated almost everything in the Olympics in 1984 using steroids. They are a powerful weapon any country would like to exploit, but how can it be under control?

Main part of my assignment is to try and find a realistic issue to the topic.

My question to you - "Is there a solution to this "ethical problem" with "cheating" at Olympic level of competing?

Thanks in advance for all your opinions guys, it matters a lot to me.

Amazing website and community too, a great place of reference for people like myself who would like to do research here and maybe push more legal rights for steroids.

[redz]

Solution for a fair playing field? only one option and that is forget drug testing altogether. Doping is prevalant in virtually every sport in the world and as long as there is money on the line there will be doping. It will never be stopped and the users will remain one step ahead of the testers for all time. I say drop the testing entirely.

[FranciscoG]

There are many countries that AAS and other anabolics are totally legal. Do these countries have a problem

Legalizations have worked in parts of socities and making the issues illegal causes more problems; prime example is prostitution in the state of NV, prostitudes have less STD per capita than any other profession.

Steroids are totally legal here, Not one issue has occured in my memory.


As for if use of performance enhancement is ethical or moral, that is by large dependant on the person´s morals and ethics.

I find it unethical for the government to restrict one´s rights.

Another prime example legalization of personal use of Pot, C, and even H here have actually lead to less problems than when they where illegal.

[*Thiago*]

You know I have always thought of this and I think of it this way -

2 athletes of the same height, weight, agility

They can both do the same workouts and the same diet, yet have different outcomes .. what is the difference ?

Your hormonal genetic compound which controls your protein synthesis

I'm sure some would say he can just - eat more, train harder, etc ... but it still doesn't change how efficient your body is at improving performance


In my view in the end the difference is just that, maybe some can elaborate more on this point.

["DIRTY D" SANCHEZ]

Op- that does seem to be a good question as you said the smaller more poor countries are not going to be able to afford the doctors that we, china, germany and what not can afford. Therefor it is almost like that could be cheating as much as much "juicing" could be in some people's minds... That being said the only way to make it fair at an olympic caliber would be to allow all countries to use them at their will. It would come the same as the way our doctors and physician's are higher trained at that field, our doctors and athletes would more than likely be more advanced in the knowledge and science behind the use of aas. Take this site for instance: Some of the people on here know as much and more than most doctors would about aas. So for it to be fair it would have to be at the user's discretion as to how much is used. Also.... What about hgh? How can the olympics test for that? I like this post though, gives lots to think about in that perspective.

"dirty d"

[SteroidsLegalized]

Thanks a lot for replies guys it really widens my view point and I want the most objective field of view that I fan get.

Still the issue of "affording" the gear or juice comes in mind when disussing main problems regarding allowing steroids in international competitions like Olympics. Is there any way to regulate the amount of steroids taken in Olympics or any other professional sport ? It is very obvious that majority of pro athletes have used steroids at some point in their life, but the way media presented all the information to us people act surprised when they hear about people like McGuire who get caught, they don't even get "caught" but rather ADMIT it because they don't get checked before every game. I watched all episodes of "Iniected" on this site and issue of "affording" was addressed by costing only 60,000 a year which any team in NFL NHL MLS etc can afford easily

What kind of "rules" or "laws" would YOU put into play to keep competitions like Olympics as fair as possible if you were to put down the legalization of steroids?

[PistolStarta]

Well you say regulating the use of hormones as if the same men or women running the same doses will yield the same results, hence re-leveling the playing field. This isn't at all true, testosterone can put 15-20lbs of clean mass on one guy and 5-10 on another using the same doses. This again comes back to genetics.

Because of this you can't only say well this amount of this compound is okay, anymore is unfair because the body of each competitor is going to partition it differently. Its truly going to be 100% legal or 100% illegal IMO, it would be vary hard to test for the exact amounts of steroids taken.

["DIRTY D" SANCHEZ]

^^^^ impossible in my opinion.... Each lab makes it a little bit different and the amount the body uses can be different with each lab. As far as the cost thing, ya it may be easier for us to pay for them, just as it is easier for us to pay for the docs and physicians as well as perfect diet and facility. So i agree with pistolstarta as there is no way to say that you can use a specific amount because each person's will use more or less than the next one.

"dirty d"

["DIRTY D" SANCHEZ]

^^^^ impossible in my opinion.... Each lab makes it a little bit different and the amount the body uses can be different with each lab. As far as the cost thing, ya it may be easier for us to pay for them, just as it is easier for us to pay for the docs and physicians as well as perfect diet and facility. So i agree with pistolstarta as there is no way to say that you can use a specific amount because each person's will use more or less than the next one.

"dirty d"

["DIRTY D" SANCHEZ]

How can i delete these double posts? I can't find how just deleting the words and then it says error?

[Swifto]

Its not cheating if everyone's doing it.

[whiteowl]

My response is geared more to professional athletes. Take a response by an Oakland Raider linebacker, he made no apologies. His answer was he came into the league getting the league minimum. In the 13 years he played the salaries literally quadrupled. He said steroids added five years to his career ...a gross income addition of about $15 million to his family. The criticism of McGwire lately. Look up the income for MLB during the Sosa, Bonds and McGwire homerun years...i believe it was in excess of $500 million to MLB because those three stuffed seats in every stadium they played in. Same when the Rocket pitched. Did MLB look the other way? Why? $$$
Pro athletes careers are usually over at 35...and then what. The incentive is there, both financially and personally to used steroids. Are face lifts and breast enhancements cheating for media and movie celebrities?
The incentive of an athlete is to perfect their performance and they do it by conditioning, diet, video training, etc. The desire to be the best they can be. Personally i am fed up with the two faced bs from the media and the front offices of professional sports.
As far as the olympics are concerned....i think if you look up the threads where the young guys are asking the older guys here on this site whether to use steroids you will find that the vets are 100% opposed to the young guys using steroids until there natural development is over....and this is a steroid website.

[FranciscoG]

Are face lifts and breast enhancements cheating for media and movie celebrities?
The incentive of an athlete is to perfect their performance and they do it by conditioning, diet, video training, etc. The desire to be the best they can be. Personally i am fed up with the two faced bs from the media and the front offices of professional sports.
As far as the olympics are concerned....i think if you look up the threads where the young guys are asking the older guys here on this site whether to use steroids you will find that the vets are 100% opposed to the young guys using steroids until there natural development is over....and this is a steroid website.

IMHO, it is case of clear sexual discrimination. Men want to use hormone replacement you hear responsed like ohhh you are druggy and you gonna have roid rage. Women wanna use HRT no big deal. A woman wants 800cc tits that will cause back problems medically, hell go right ahead. Woman´s right to choice is far supperior in western culture than a man´s.


The issue with olympic or pther pros... Alright if use, which has been unregulated and considered cheating is so bad and blaw blaw blaw,

Where are the bodies?

Show me the bodies of all these pros that have died as a result of anabolics?

[PistolStarta]

IMHO, it is case of clear sexual discrimination. Men want to use hormone replacement you hear responsed like ohhh you are druggy and you gonna have roid rage. Women wanna use HRT no big deal. A woman wants 800cc tits that will cause back problems medically, hell go right ahead. Woman´s right to choice is far supperior in western culture than a man´s.


The issue with olympic or pther pros... Alright if use, which has been unregulated and considered cheating is so bad and blaw blaw blaw,

Where are the bodies?

Show me the bodies of all these pros that have died as a result of anabolics?

Even then, they can't prove it was steroids that were the deciding factor of a heart attack or other problem. (go Bigger.Stronger. Faster.)

[FranciscoG]

^^ Exactly there is no evidence, none.

Look at all the drugs aas are compared to C, H, benzos, opiates, and so on; I can show you bodies and death for each and everyone of them.

Who is the poster boy for pro/olympic anabolics use? Hands down 1988 Canadian Sprinter ben Johnson, how is his health today? Great, not one problem.

[slimy]

To the OP: Check out the documentary " Bigger, Stronger, Faster". It's put out by Magnolia. Most of us on this board can quote it. TONS of information packed into this. Very useful in your study. Highly recommended by pretty much all of us.

[SteroidsLegalized]

To the OP: Check out the documentary " Bigger, Stronger, Faster". It's put out by Magnolia. Most of us on this board can quote it. TONS of information packed into this. Very useful in your study. Highly recommended by pretty much all of us.

Thanks for the recommendation, I have watched it in the past and our professor was kind enough to show a few clips during the lecture as well. Definitely a lot of useful information in the movie that helped me base my opinion and hypothesis of my paper, however it does not help provide a solid solution to the "ethical" problem and emphasize on Olympic games especially since it's the biggest sporting international event.

Thanks again for all the input guys, your opinions are much appreciated

[laduem88]

in sports its only cheating if you get caught..its true, but honestly im on a cycle now and i cant hit 700 home runs

[MuscleScience]

Hey guys, first of all I'd like to introduce myself.

I'm a university student in the field of Kinesiology (science of exercise and it's effects on human body) and I'm doing a research project on "cheating in Olympics"

Obviously a big part of my research is based on steroids is ethically it is deemed as "cheating" and not "fair way to play any sports"

My issue, however, is there a real solution to this problem? If the Steroid Control Pact of 2004 was removed and Steroids were legalized, wouldn't it case more problems?

Examples of problems:
- abuse at younger age (put age restriction like alcohol?)
- Drug race (every country spending millions in steroid research to have the best athlete at olympics)
- Hard to cope with truth, many riots and media that would be against it, .... Paradigm shift?
- hard to regulate amounts in pro athletes

I've talked to my professor right after we had a lecture on steroids (and he, honestly, does not deem steroids as illegal, or should be illegal) and he told me that playing "fair" is still not "fair" to poorer countries who are trying to compete on olympics - they don't have as many physicians and professional trainers that richer countries can afford.

Olympics are all about showing off the country's power and dominance. What role do Steroids play here?
I mean Eastern Germans dominated almost everything in the Olympics in 1984 using steroids. They are a powerful weapon any country would like to exploit, but how can it be under control?

Main part of my assignment is to try and find a realistic issue to the topic.

My question to you - "Is there a solution to this "ethical problem" with "cheating" at Olympic level of competing?

Thanks in advance for all your opinions guys, it matters a lot to me.

Amazing website and community too, a great place of reference for people like myself who would like to do research here and maybe push more legal rights for steroids.

Last time I checked kinesiology was the study of human movement.

kinesis (movement) in greek.

[SteroidsLegalized]

Last time I checked kinesiology was the study of human movement.

kinesis (movement) in greek.

To be perfectly precise, yes it is the study of MOVEMENT of human body.

[Jumbo18]

what school is this for?

[DangerDave]

Its really a tricky one but lets take the issue of legalization. say it was legalized, would it be a question of use as much as you want or is there a limit on how much test a week etc?

Cos say that there were a limit in place, people would still then go over the limit and cross the threshhold of legal/illegal. Say there were no limit, then the countries with more money and knowledge of the subject would succeed, which lets face it, these are the countries that are tops in athletics today.

But by legalizing steroids where would one draw the line? nothing would change, things would be just as they are now. The top countries would be the top countries still, the top players or athletes the top athlese still.

And by placing such an emphasis on 'fairness' how is it fair that say the states have unlimited resources in terms of trainers, dieticians etc and a poorer country hasnt.

Plus by legalizing it you force athletes to take it as they have no fighting chance otherwise (which i guess is basically the situation now anyway)

there is no such thing as fair, people dont want fair. People want to see the hulk tackling the other hulk and perfoming at a level never seen before. People want to see the world records being beat every year. But in the same breath they want fairness in sports.

All our sports is built on the foundation of performances being enhanced via illegal substances, its far too late to ask the question of whether its right or wrong cos our sports is in the 'wrong' and has been for too long to debate it.

Perhaps the question should concern the world attitude and not only sports, its goes beyond that.

hope this makes sense

[thegodfather]

If you want a good comparative study on the deleterious unintended consequences of prohibition of substances, I suggest you do some research into the success that Portugal is having with its reformed drug laws. You may be able to use some of the data to form an analogous argument.

A fairly accurate but perhaps biased article on this topic done by the CATO Institute is titled "Drug Decriminalization in Portugal: Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies." Here is a link to the abstract- http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

Full text of the study is available on the site.

[kalspic]

i dont see how its cheating... look at baseball everyone can get them, whether they admit it or not they can. its just some chose to use them and others dont. they're so widely available that i cant call them cheating anymore... imo of course.

[drdeath613]

when it come to the Olympics you have to know even a dirt poor place has funds for them .

even with the use of steroids they still have to put in alot of hard work is it cheating no i mean if u could just pop a pill and it could double your muscle power and so on and all u had to do was watch tv yes that would be cheating

and even tho there banned and what not theres always someone out there making a better steroid that wont show up on any test and making it more powerful then the last one so keeping them banned or letting people have em dont matter

[thegodfather]

Drug Decriminalization in Portugal:
Lessons for Creating Fair and Successful Drug Policies

by Glenn Greenwald




On July 1, 2001, a nationwide law in Portugal took effect that decriminalized all drugs, including cocaine and heroin. Under the new legal framework, all drugs were "decriminalized," not "legalized." Thus, drug possession for personal use and drug usage itself are still legally prohibited, but violations of those prohibitions are deemed to be exclusively administrative violations and are removed completely from the criminal realm. Drug trafficking continues to be prosecuted as a criminal offense.

While other states in the European Union have developed various forms of de facto decriminalization — whereby substances perceived to be less serious (such as cannabis) rarely lead to criminal prosecution — Portugal remains the only EU member state with a law explicitly declaring drugs to be "decriminalized." Because more than seven years have now elapsed since enactment of Portugal's decriminalization system, there are ample data enabling its effects to be assessed.

Notably, decriminalization has become increasingly popular in Portugal since 2001. Except for some far-right politicians, very few domestic political factions are agitating for a repeal of the 2001 law. And while there is a widespread perception that bureaucratic changes need to be made to Portugal's decriminalization framework to make it more efficient and effective, there is no real debate about whether drugs should once again be criminalized. More significantly, none of the nightmare scenarios touted by preenactment decriminalization opponents — from rampant increases in drug usage among the young to the transformation of Lisbon into a haven for "drug tourists" — has occurred.

The political consensus in favor of decriminalization is unsurprising in light of the relevant empirical data. Those data indicate that decriminalization has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates in Portugal, which, in numerous categories, are now among the lowest in the EU, particularly when compared with states with stringent criminalization regimes. Although post-decriminalization usage rates have remained roughly the same or even decreased slightly when compared with other EU states, drug-related pathologies — such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage — have decreased dramatically. (Here is perhaps one of the best citations you can use for your paper, as it indicates that decriminalization can actually lead to a reduction in unwanted ancillary drug related consequences)Drug policy experts attribute those positive trends to the enhanced ability of the Portuguese government to offer treatment programs to its citizens — enhancements made possible, for numerous reasons, by decriminalization.

This report will begin with an examination of the Portuguese decriminalization framework as set forth in law and in terms of how it functions in practice. Also examined is the political climate in Portugal both pre- and postdecriminalization with regard to drug policy, and the impetus that led that nation to adopt decriminalization.

Glenn Greenwald is a constitutional lawyer and a contributing writer at Salon. He has authored several books, including A Tragic Legacy (2007) and How Would a Patriot Act? (2006).

The report then assesses Portuguese drug policy in the context of the EU's approach to drugs. The varying legal frameworks, as well as the overall trend toward liberalization, are examined to enable a meaningful comparative assessment between Portuguese data and data from other EU states.

The report also sets forth the data concerning drug-related trends in Portugal both pre- and postdecriminalization. The effects of decriminalization in Portugal are examined both in absolute terms and in comparisons with other states that continue to criminalize drugs, particularly within the EU.

The data show that, judged by virtually every metric, the Portuguese decriminalization framework has been a resounding success. Within this success lie self-evident lessons that should guide drug policy debates around the world.

I made comments in RED above. I suggest that you examine the full text article for more in depth data and statistics.

[Friend]

Steroids are great. If you don't take steroids, you are shit.

[*Thiago*]

I wonder what are the real numbers of steroid use in the NFL ??

% of players on gear

[Rockin Z28]

I wonder what are the real numbers of steroid use in the NFL ??

% of players on gear

i'd say well over 90..HGH 100

[DSM4Life]

FACT: Its only cheating in dosages higher than 500mg.

[Kratos]

coaches and training facilities, population of a country to generate a pool of athletes ect are all much larger unequalizers of the playing field.

Steroid use is dirt cheap when you're talking about state funds being involved.

Of course the playing field isn't level for all countries...but the availibility of enough money for chemical enhancement is the least of inequalicies.

[Kratos]

http://www.chulavista.com/sub/arco.htm
http://www.teamusa.org/about-usoc/co...ining-ctr.html
http://www.teamusa.org/about-usoc/la...ining-ctr.html

you think a bottle of juice and a docs to monitor the athletes is looking expensive now?

[Kratos]

and no they should not be legal for the athletes to use imo
all efforts should be made to keep performance enhancing chemicals out


want to be a gold medal sprinter?
plan on starting juicing at age 14 so at age 30 you'll be ready for a possible shot at a win
funk that

[SteroidsLegalized]

My apologies for posting in the incorrect forum although this one clearly doesn't get as many views

[javerton]

I don't think ANYTHING is fair at all, let me explain though. Like the guy in bigger, stronger faster said, it will become increasingly clear the more you know, that talent is merely genetic variation.

You need to have literally at LEAST like the top 5% genetics to play ANY (major) sport at an elite level. Even motivation and things like that which people put down to hard work are simply factors or their nature and nurture. Think about it, if you had Ronnies genetics, his motivation, his nurture and were identical to him in every possible way, would you not be just as successful at him?

I'm still drawn however about its use in sports...

[Nicotine]

the worst part.

is the general public's view.

they think you take them, and instantly you're INCREDIBLE.

they think it makes up for hard work and training.

[stevey_6t9]

whats steroids?