want a new toyota, gonna have to wait

[Kratos]

Due to the problem with run away toyota's, the gvmt forced to issue an enormous recall. They kept selling toyotas for another week or so. Then the gvmt was like, wtf, people keep getting killed, you don't have a fix even though it's been months since the first round of recalls, and you're still selling these things.

Well, they were forced to pull 8 models completely off the market by the US gvmt.

That makes up over 70% of new toyotas sold, not including lexus or scion (not impacted by the recall), or 57% or everything toyota makes.

They don't have a fix worked out, they haven't made new parts to retrofit the cars on dealer lots. Production lines have shut down until the engineers work out the problem. Expect it to be months before things get going again.

[Kratos]

DETROIT (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp shares dropped more than 8 percent on Wednesday in U.S. trading as concern deepened about the automaker's suspension of sales and production of some of its best-selling vehicles due to problems with faulty accelerators.


Shares of auto parts suppliers and dealerships with exposure to Toyota also tumbled, while expectations built that the company's troubles would benefit rivals.

Analysts said Toyota's unprecedented move to shut down sales of models accounting for most of its U.S. sales had tarnished the automaker's once-sterling reputation for quality and safety and raised the risk of an even more costly disruption to operations in its largest market.

In a move that underscored the depth of the crisis, Avis Budget Group Inc said it was pulling 20,000 Toyota cars from its rental fleet, citing "the safety and peace of mind of our customers."

CTS Corp, which supplies the accelerator pedals at the center of an ongoing Toyota recall, said it was still working with the automaker on a remedy. Shares of CTS plunged as much as 20 percent on Wednesday.

U.S. safety regulators said they were in continuing talks with Toyota. Dealers have a legal obligation to not sell any vehicle identified as defective until the problem is fixed, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said.

That strands thousands of top-selling Toyota cars like Camry on dealer lots, locking up tens of millions of dollars in financing and saddling retailers with useless inventory from an automaker that has prided itself on running lean.

Shares of AutoNation, the largest U.S. dealership group, were down over 2 percent. Group 1 Automotive, the No. 4 U.S. auto dealership group, dropped 9 percent.

'DEVASTATING BLOW'

The most recent troubles for Toyota began on Monday when it said it would suspend sales in the United States of eight models already subject to a safety recall for accelerator pedals that could stick. The move follows two recalls to fix potential acceleration problems on 4.8 million vehicles in the United States.

Toyota is also halting production of the models at five facilities in the United States and Canada for at least the first week of February.

The eight models represented 57 percent of Toyota's U.S. sales in 2009 and include the Camry and Corolla sedans, two of the best-selling cars in the U.S. market.

"It's a devastating blow to Toyota and Toyota's reputation," said Dennis Virag, president of the Automotive Consulting Group. "Toyota is the new General Motors in terms of experiencing quality glitches, over-expansion and the proliferation of new product models.

The production halt comes at a time when major automakers including General Motors Co and Ford are ramping up production as the battered U.S. industry recovers from its worst downturn since the recession of the early 1980s.

The move will be a direct hit to Toyota's earnings because automakers book revenue when they produce and ship the vehicles to dealer lots, not when they are bought by consumers.

It also comes at a critical time for Toyota as it rolls out a marketing campaign in an effort to reverse a recent slide that sent its 2009 sales down 20 percent.

The sweeping sales halt also comes at a crucial time for Toyota management. Akio Toyoda, grandson of Toyota's founder, took over as president of the automaker in June with a vow to address missteps in the U.S. market and elsewhere.

In 2008, Toyota overtook GM as the world's leading automaker. But rivals such as Ford, Hyundai and Honda Motor Co have been seen as catching up to Toyota on quality and reliability.

RISKS ABOUND

"You can't just stop selling these models and not expect some impact to your market share -- at least in the short term," said Deutsche Securities analyst Kurt Sanger told Reuters Insider.

"Will it help certain brands gain share in the short term? Yes. I'm sure every Hyundai dealer in the U.S. is letting customers know about their improvement in quality, and by the way, 'Guess what happened across the street?'" Sanger said.

New York-listed shares of Toyota traded to the lowest level since November, dropping as much as 9 percent to $78.89. In Tokyo, Toyota's shares suffered their steepest slide in eight months, falling 4.3 percent.

Toyota said its decision to shut down production next week would idle about 14,000 workers. Toyota spokesman Mike Goss said those workers would remain employed and would work on plant improvements while assembly lines are shut down.

Analysts said there was a risk that Toyota would be forced to extend that production shutdown to avoid saddling dealers with more inventory as it scrambles to fix the problem in conjunction with its supplier and safety regulators.

"It doesn't appear that Toyota has come up with a definite fix for the problem yet, so the initial announcement of a one-week plant closure could potentially be followed by more," Barclays Capital analyst Brian Johnson said in a note for clients.

Meanwhile, Toyota's problems could pull down industry-wide auto sales for January, KeyBanc Capital Markets analyst Brett Hoselton said.

U.S. auto sales in January, which major automakers including Toyota are due to report on February 2, are expected to show the market has softened from the 10.8 million-unit sales pace of the fourth quarter of 2009.

(Reporting by Soyoung Kim and Bernie Woodall, additional reporting by Kevin Krolicki and John Crawley; Editing by Maureen Bavdek and Matthew Lewis)

[Kratos]

I have a big problem with the way this car company does buisness. They have had many safety and quality related reacalls, often keeping them quiet and somehow maintaining an image of quality. My advise is: don't buy a toyota.

[Kratos]

even now the press is praising them for taking proactive action...what?

they were forced to do it...in fact they illigally continued to sell cars for several days.
According to National Highway Traffic Safety Administration administrator David Strickland, in an interview with The Detroit News, the move was a legal obligation and "We informed them of the obligations, and they complied."

[stpete]

When i heard this i was shocked. Not that they have a failure, but how is it that the "engineers" don't know how to fix it?

[Kratos]

When i heard this i was shocked. Not that they have a failure, but how is it that the "engineers" don't know how to fix it?

they'll come up with a fix quick
but if it's a complicated problem it won't really fix it

they'll say it was something simple that can be replaced cheap, like maybe a gas pedal...they'll get sales running again

and if it's really something complicated like the ecu it might take several months to work out and get new parts....
so they'll lie and fix something simple that doesn't need fixing
after things have returned to normal sales wise, they'll issue another quiet recall on ECU's saying the previous fix didn't solve all the problems and they want to take all actions possible because they care so much and blah blah blah. Right now they need to get the man of their back any quick cheap way they can so they can get back to selling.

I think they know it's a complex problem to do with the electronics.
But they don't have a fix for that yet, the gvmt has stepped in, and now they have to lie and come up with a simple easy to fix explaination that dealers can do on their lots and get things going.

[stpete]

Yea, you're probably right. This will be interesting to follow.

[Nicotine]

ford recalled 4.5+ million vehicles for huge fire hazards not too long ago.

plus all the issues with ford exploders, etc etc etc.

toyota is fine. at least they are beng responsible about it.

at the same time, i dont think it's the pedal.


i think it's the drive by wire throttle system found in the new toyota's and hondas, etc

[redz]

toyota is fine. at least they are beng responsible about it.

Not only are they not selling the cars they also stopped building them. There is a big difference between the ford incidents and this one being that this is mos tof their line up not one particular model and 18 people have died and some 2000+ incidents since 1999 as a result. They have known about the issue for ages and never fixed it. I`m glad to see those crappy japanese cars will finally get a truthful reputation that they are junk. They tried masking this back in the fall saying it was the floor mats then now they say the gas pedals but I have read from a watchdog that is saying there are insidents that cannot be explained by either of the recalls meaning the problem is bigger then they are letting on. More recalls are expected soon, I predict Lexus will take the next big hit, I mean the camry and ES are the same car so how can Camry be recalled and not the ES? sounds fishy to me.

[Nicotine]

lol

please dont make me pull up ALL the recalls ford/chevy/gm have had.

lets see, random cars that set on fire, even when the car is off.... and remember the ford explorer? LOL

people died in those things too.

every car manufacturer has had issues. please do not say domestic flaws havnt taken lives, because that would be ignorant as fuk.

[MuscleScience]

lol

please dont make me pull up ALL the recalls ford/chevy/gm have had.

lets see, random cars that set on fire, even when the car is off.... and remember the ford explorer? LOL

people died in those things too.

every car manufacturer has had issues. please do not say domestic flaws havnt taken lives, because that would be ignorant as fuk.

Wasnt the Ford Explorer recall a matter of the tire not Ford directly.

Anyway, I am a huge car guy. I would buy two toyota's maybe and they are both older cars. A supra or an old school four runner. The rest of their stuff is crap to say the least. I know, I have seen the inside of almost every Toyota engine from 2000 on. Secondly the electronic Throttle body by wire should be light years ahead of the older throttle by cable. All a cable has to do is get a kink or pinch in it anywhere from the pedal to the throttle body to be rendered ineffective. GM, Ford, Honda, even those Cheap ass Hyundai's have working models for years with ETB's. I cant stand Toyota fan boys. They made two cool cars their entire history, thats it. They are no better than any other brand.

[Lift-Eat-Repeat]

How can their engineers be relied on to fix anything? If they are so smart why are their penis's so small? That would of been the first thing I fixed.

(Complete Joke)
Im completely kidding. My girl is Asian and her penis is huge.

[Kratos]

toyota is fine. at least they are beng responsible about it.

c

can you explain how they are being responsible about it?

[Kratos]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...6.story?page=1

[Kratos]

this might interest you nico
I know you had to replace nearly every part on your honda besides the badges (I guess that was all you wanted) due to it being a bland pos.

but don't you have an acura transmission 6 speed in it? same issue with acura
how's 3rd gear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNOQHAVsbhE

this is how japan usually deals with quality problems
no recall, no admission of guilt, no blemishes on reputation
continued false rep of quality
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...owners-fo.html

not that you'll be eligable for a free repair since yours is in a kit car

[Hoggage_54]

I'll stick to American cars

[warchild]

i have a tacoma,my 3rd. I won't drive anything else

[Kratos]

i have a tacoma,my 3rd. I won't drive anything else

who can say no to a hisory of frames that rust through

[DCI]

Toyotas are shit

[warchild]

who can say no to a hisory of frames that rust through

I live in AZ, no worry of that. I've always been impressed with Toyota. Back in the early 90s when they had the problem the new V6 3.0L and they did the V06 campaign. Thats was due to the head gaskets blowing. They replaced the engines. I would say they need to fix the new issue with the throttle but ive never had much problems with my tacomas.

[Nicotine]

kratos, with all due respect - are you a redneck chevy lover? LOL

im a fan of ALL cars.

i had a chevy s10 with a 350, 202 headers, slap shifter, shaved, cnotched rear frame, etc etc etc.

crap like the ford explorer - was proven, it wasnt the tires. it was the design of the vehicles.

every single company has had small and large recalls.

as for my car being a "kit car"?

k20z1 swap from an acura type-s, and changing the car from silver to white...

wow, that truly constitutes a "kit car"

i bet if you did that to a 1991 camaro, you'd probally think it was the hottest thing rollin.... lol

your statement in itself shows your ignorance. no offence, and im not starting an argument, but saying my car is a "kit car" when you obiously know nothing about it - is just ignorant.

go drink your winny.

hey kratos, why not take your own advice you've given out many times, and read the rules: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=308588

thanks for the personal attack.

lol

ANNNNNNNNNNNNND

Mark (friend of mine) - his EF honda hatch (1991) eating a supercharged vette...first pass at the track ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEcqWI_A9mk

and i have had project cars in the past. my car currently is 95% OEM. other than the acura motor swap (still oem, technically) and spoiler (got the japanese spoiler for my car)

i've had a 441hp del sol, and a 341hp EK, and a turbo EG also...those are the tire #'s, not a crank.

BUILT NOT BOUGHT...it's cool you can buy something from the dealer...congrats.

i'd rather put a bit more work into it than that..same with the chevy i had.

anyone can buy a car, nothing special.

kthx for your ignorance.

[Kratos]

sorry nico, it's nothing against you
idk why I get so angry at riced out rides
cars are a great hobby and I shouldn't judge you for personal taste
no redneck chevy lover

[Kratos]

I live in AZ, no worry of that. I've always been impressed with Toyota. Back in the early 90s when they had the problem the new V6 3.0L and they did the V06 campaign. Thats was due to the head gaskets blowing. They replaced the engines. I would say they need to fix the new issue with the throttle but ive never had much problems with my tacomas.

That's cool you don't demand a car that doesn't rot in anywhere but the desert.

The head gaskets did blow, they would fix them...but like many of toyota's recalls, it was a silent campaign. Meaning, they don't notify the customer, don't tell the public about the issue, and don't agree to guilt. If you go to the dealer with a problem, they will fix it...many people were out of pocket for the repair because of failure before the recall, or lack of knowledge of the recall (not everyone gets service from the dealer). I'm amazed you're impressed by them fixing a defective product...they only do it to avoid a class action lawsuit exposing, and making public knowledge that they make a shitty product.

Clearly you're swinging from toyotas tiny asian nuts, so I don't expect to sway you.

[Nicotine]

there's a difference between rice:
fiberglass body kits
clear tail lights
noisy muffler, on a fully stock exhaust system
cold air intakes on cars with nothing else
retarded metal wings
LED and underglow
huge retarded stereos that are worth more than the car
MAJOR lowering without fixing camber and alignment
1992 hondas with stickers all over, and bumpers hanging off because the metal is so rotten there is nothing to bolt to

but, it also applies to toyotas, cavaliers, sunfires, etc.

and my car:
my car is a honda 2002 SiR (Si in the usa)

full factory HFP package (suspension, factory skirts)

recaro seats from the japanese version of the car. in japan, it was a type-r. better motor, seats, etc

the only AFTERMARKET stuff on my car, is the japanese version of the car, MUGEN made a spoiler for it. that's the only aftermarket thing on my car.

the only other thing done, is we ripped out the shitty k20a3 motor, and put in a fresh 6spd tranny and a fresh k20z1 from the type-s (same motor found in the japanese ctr)

other than the spoiler+motor swap, it's factory.

i hate rice too, cuz people think im one of them douchebags.

[The Deuce]

Hey.. so what are you sayin' US CHEVY LOVIN' REDNECK'S ARE BAD PEOPLE!?!

I bet MY 2010 Chevy 2500hd would Glide ride up and over your 2002 Honda.. and you'd die.. and I'd wouldn't even blink an eye..

No offense Nico.. I like you bro.. I am just saying..

us Chevy Lovin' Redneck's with pick-up trucks with gun racks in the back window and a brush-guard still need respect too..

I FVCKING HATE CARS.. Give me a Gas Guzzlin' Extended Cab Pick-up truck any day over a death-trap car.. especially one that is LOWERED and "Supposedly fast"

Guess what?? I bet I could TOAST you on my 09 H-D V-rod Muscle..and look good doin' it too













You know i'm just playin' right?? lol...


Congrats on building it.. sounds like a fun project although.. not one for me..

We all have our own.. THINGS WE LIKE..


BTW... FVCK TOYOTA !!

[warchild]

That's cool you don't demand a car that doesn't rot in anywhere but the desert.

The head gaskets did blow, they would fix them...but like many of toyota's recalls, it was a silent campaign. Meaning, they don't notify the customer, don't tell the public about the issue, and don't agree to guilt. If you go to the dealer with a problem, they will fix it...many people were out of pocket for the repair because of failure before the recall, or lack of knowledge of the recall (not everyone gets service from the dealer). I'm amazed you're impressed by them fixing a defective product...they only do it to avoid a class action lawsuit exposing, and making public knowledge that they make a shitty product.

Clearly you're swinging from toyotas tiny asian nuts, so I don't expect to sway you.

jeez, should i just sell my tacoma than?? would that make you happy??? mr. grumpy

[Kratos]

jeez, should i just sell my tacoma than?? would that make you happy??? mr. grumpy

yes, plz do

[MuscleScience]

there's a difference between rice:
fiberglass body kits
clear tail lights
noisy muffler, on a fully stock exhaust system
cold air intakes on cars with nothing else
retarded metal wings
LED and underglow
huge retarded stereos that are worth more than the car
MAJOR lowering without fixing camber and alignment
1992 hondas with stickers all over, and bumpers hanging off because the metal is so rotten there is nothing to bolt to

but, it also applies to toyotas, cavaliers, sunfires, etc.

and my car:
my car is a honda 2002 SiR (Si in the usa)

full factory HFP package (suspension, factory skirts)

recaro seats from the japanese version of the car. in japan, it was a type-r. better motor, seats, etc

the only AFTERMARKET stuff on my car, is the japanese version of the car, MUGEN made a spoiler for it. that's the only aftermarket thing on my car.

the only other thing done, is we ripped out the shitty k20a3 motor, and put in a fresh 6spd tranny and a fresh k20z1 from the type-s (same motor found in the japanese ctr)

other than the spoiler+motor swap, it's factory.

i hate rice too, cuz people think im one of them douchebags.

Why not just build up your old motor?

[Kratos]

"Overall, there were 2,152 complaints categorized as vehicle speed control, which includes sudden acceleration.

Of the complaints about sticking pedals identified by The Times, only one resulted in a fatality. But that vehicle, a 2003 Camry, contained a pedal assembly that was not manufactured by CTS.

In fact, of 11 injuries reported to NHTSA in complaints that alleged stuck pedals, only one -- a 2008 Camry Hybrid that ran into a tree in Minnesota last October -- was in a vehicle included in the current recall, The Times found."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...2.story?page=1

This recall isn't going to do the public any good. No point even going in for the fix. They're throwing a 10 cent washer it so they can say they're doing something, and the gvmt will let them start selling cars again.

[Kratos]

NEW YORK, June 18 -- Today the National Labor Committee (NLC) is releasing a 65-page report, "The Toyota You Don't Know" documenting serious human rights violations by the Toyota Motor Company, which will disturb most Americans.

"Celebrities like Julia Roberts, Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pit, Bill Maher and others have led the way in turning Toyota's Prius into a symbol of concern for our environment," said Charles Kernaghan, director of the NLC, "We hope that these same celebrities will now also challenge Toyota to improve its respect for human and worker rights. As a start, Toyota should cut its ties to the Burmese dictators and end the exploitation of foreign guest workers trafficked to Japan."

* Toyota linked to human trafficking and sweatshop abuse: Toyota's much admired "Just in Time" auto parts supply chain is riddled with sweatshop abuse, including the trafficking of foreign guest workers, mostly from China and Vietnam to Japan, who are stripped of their passports and often forced to work--including at subcontract plants supplying Toyota--16 hours a day, seven days a week, while being paid less than half the legal minimum wage. Guest workers who complain about abusive conditions are deported.

* Prius made by low-wage temps: Fully one-third--10,000--of all Toyota assembly line workers in Japan are low-wage temps who have few rights and earn less than 60% of what full time workers do.

* Unpaid overtime and "overworked" to death: Mr. Kenichi Uchino was just 30 years old when he died of overwork on an assembly line at Toyota's Prius plant, leaving behind his young wife and two children. Mr. Uchino routinely worked 13 to 14 hours a day, putting in 106 1/2 to 155 hours of overtime--depending on whether work taken home was counted--in the 30 days leading up to his death. Toyota claimed that he had only worked 45 hours of overtime and that the other 61 1/2 to 110 hours were "voluntary" and unpaid. His wife had to go to court -- which ruled that Mr. Uchino was overworked to death -- to win a pension for their children.

* Ties to Burmese dictators: Toyota, through the Toyota Tsusho Corporation, which is part of the Toyota Group of Companies, is involved in several joint business ventures with the ruthless military regime in Burma. The dictators use these revenues to repress and torture the people of Burma.

* Toyota and the race to the bottom: Toyota is imposing its two-tier, low wage model at its non-union plants in the south of the United States, which will result in wages and benefits being slashed across the entire auto industry.

The National Labor Committee recently documented how the U.S.-Jordan Free Trade Agreement descended into human trafficking with tens of thousands of foreign guest workers held under conditions of involuntary servitude.


Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6842...#ixzz0eEHmJtw6

[Nicotine]

Why not just build up your old motor?

because, for what it would cost to get any improvement out of the k20a3, i got a k20z1 motor - 80hp more, 6spd tranny, off an extremely low KM type-s, for around the same price.

the car in japan came with the better motor, when they brought it here - they ripped us off :P

another example

k20a3+peakboost turbo setup at 10lbs of boost=about 240whp...

k20z1+peakboost turbo setup at 10lbs of boost=about 320whp

the motor responds far better to boost and airflow.....

higher redline.

k20a3 - 6800rpm

k20z1 - 8600rpm

on another note

the honda fit has a fire hazard recall.

window control mech on the drivers side if it gets wet, can short and start a fire..... honda fit's suck anyway.

[Kratos]

now the brakes don't work on the prius

[Kratos]

toyotathon of death
http://ow.ly/13u9m

[Hoggage_54]

I'm sure if you wait a little while, one will come crashing through your front door

[DCI]

I shall say it again toyotas are shit with a boring and crap range of cars.

[Kratos]

2001, 2002
civics accords and crv's recalled due to air bag over-inflating causing injury and death

[Kratos]

NHTSA now investigating 80 complaints from drivers reporting difficulties with steering 2009 and 2010 Corollas, with many saying their cars wandered when driving on highways, making it hard to stay in lane.

The japs are batting 1000. Steering, brakes, airbags, gas pedal. Whats left as a safety item that has moving parts.

[Kratos]

An American car buyer would never tolorate what a Japanese car buyer thinks is just fine. I've seen it time and time again. I've ridden in Jap cars and though to myself "How can this guy stand this pile of crap?" Hard shifts from the auto trans, gear whine, noisy doors, no features, road noise, shit radio, horrible fit and finish. But when you talk to the Jap car owner they love it.

[-Ender-]

I'm not really sure how you feel about japanese cars Kratos; could you clarify?

[Kratos]

I'm not really sure how you feel about japanese cars Kratos; could you clarify?

that they suck
their quality is a myth
why did a corolla vastly outsell the equivelent chevy (very weak sales numbers) prizm and do substantially better in owner satisfation, warranty and buyback claims...when all they do is put a chevy sticker on one and a toyota sticker on the other.
and I take offense to them waving the american flag, sponsoring nascar, and saying they provide american jobs. When for example toyota directly employs only 35 thousand or so employees, mostly very poor paying jobs. Covering up safty issues and spinning it in their favor.

I think it's crazy we happily buy their product when next to zero American cars are sold in Japan. The American public should wake up, jmo.