Use the word cu** instead of mate
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Use the word cu** instead of mate
Use the Westminstersystem of governance
^^ whats in that camp water man your trippin lol
Public healthcare is free??? Healthcare professionals work for nothing?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Euroholic
You pay you just pay upfront in the form of taxes, correct?
How is it justifiable to limit what a doctor can make on a procedure? What if I took over your job and said "this is what you're making"?Quote:
Originally Posted by basketballfan22
Procedures will have fixed pricing...... And if doctors can opt out then what do u suppose will happen? It'll end up like Medicaid. Try looking up any specialty and see how many doctors are participating in Medicaid.
If we said "you can't opt out" then how is it fair we cap what the doctor is making. I don't Want to hear "they make enough". Their medical malpractice insurance can be through the roof because of today's fvcked up society. Don't get me wrong..... Ofcoarse they do well..... Which is part of the reason people become doctors.
Think about this though..... Not everyone who becomes a doctor does it because they have a "calling" - these people are smart and can do a variety of things. If we start limiting what doctors
Can charge and the cost of medical school stays the same and medical malpractice insurance stays high...... What will motivate someone to become a doctor? Why pay all that and be limited by the government in regard to what you charge when you can become an engineer?
And it won't be the employer that suffers when it comes down to it.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunk1
Health care is never free either. Euro thinks its free because him and his paycheck know no different. The American people will see a tax increase.
Also..... I'll quote TheGodFather here..... "Healthcare is not a right. It's not a Born right. You have the right to life and freedom. You are granted those simply for being born. You DO NOT and should not have a right to healthcare"
Healthcare is a service..... Period.
Just so everyone here knows..... I currently don't have health insurance...... So I'm not sitting pretty and saying what I'm saying because I'm covered.
It would be justifiable to limit my income if that means a better life for more people. Surgeons still get paid well in other countries like the UK, so it is not like they will all of a sudden make minimum wage. I understand the benefits of privatized healthcare, and no system is perfect. I think different people benefit and are hurt by each type of healthcare system. General physicians will likely have more patients and thus make more money with "Obamacare." Citizens on the poorer end of the income bracket will benefit because they can now afford healthcare. Specialists, on the other hand, will likely make less money; and the quality of care that wealthy (not necessarily super-wealthy) patients receive may be slightly worse.
My bleeding heart? I am sorry if I have sympathy for people lol. I understand the arguments against socialized healthcare, and that is definitely a concern that I share too: people's taking advantage of the system by visiting the doctor for any little ailment. I hope that only a small minority will do this though. I will be the first one to admit I am wrong if our healthcare system goes to shit. The law has been passed though, so there is no point in crying over spilt milk.
People currently can receive care without a huge bill but most don't take the time to look for it. No hospital can refuse you..... Even if you can't pay. You can not be refused. That's the lawQuote:
Originally Posted by basketballfan22
I just wanted to say that I love discussions like this. It not only forces me to delve more deeply into the issue by reading both sides of the argument and coming to my own conclusion, but hopefully it does the same for most members here. I won't say that my stance on this issue is set in stone as there are a variety of other issues I have a far better knowledge of, so it is great reading and discussing/debating this.
I see you down there marcus. How do you like the healthcare system over there in the UK? I know the healthcare system over there has different aspects than "Obamacare," but it would be great to hear from people who have firsthand experience with universal healthcare.
Once again a good thought by Lunk. This is America and the Home of the free. This country has been founded on free enterprise and within certain guides (not ripping people off) we can make what ever we can (I speak generally, OK) That in itself gives us drive to be what we can and drive forward. We are by nature self-centered and drive most for our own self.
I am on SSD. My semi-wrkout bud just hate it that he has to work and I don't. Makes comment, Oh I gotta go work to pay taxes to support you so you can stay at the gym all day. Well I worked many years and had high paying salaries and paid big money in the system. I complain about not enough insurance for me, why won't they give me this n that. Well mikey bullsh!t on that.... NO one owes me my meds, my income at this point. I know I'll getting more after 10 yrs than I probably put in. BUT they told me in the beginning pay now and we';; take care of you forever (simply put)
I am grateful to be an American citizen no matter how good or at time it may seem, or what they do. I am grateful. If me or someone else doesn't like it here in this country , WELL GET THE FVCK OUT....Now because somewhere in this country of good and bad laws and taxes, and SSI and healthcare etc, etc.... You already benefitted some where even not directly but indirectly, your parents or sibblings.
I find we need to work with what we have, THE PRINCIPLES and hone it to the needs of Americans now. Shape it mold it, but embrace it and work within. ...crazy on SSD mike
OK, bla, bla, bla....... easier said then done. But if you don't want to work with it, get out. :(
I wonder how your views will change as you age and mature?
I work the same job I have had for 16 years making a whopping (haha) 50K a year and my wife is self employed working her ass off. I have health insurance provided by my employer but due to the increasing health insurance costs, it's basicly become a major medical program. In 16 years we have met our deductible twice. We own (actually the bank does) our home that's worth 100K on a GREAT day. Our 2 vehicles are older than 2006. We struggle to save a few bucks to take a small vacation every cpl years. I have worked 3 jobs at one time to get by in the past. We are trying currently to figure out how to come up with enough money to send our daughter to a community college in August.
All of this while I watch TONS of ppl collect thousands of dollars in tax returns that they never paid into, their kids go to college for free because they have choses to remain single parents (even divorcing or not marrying on purpose for this reason), they enjoy 2 or 3 vacations a year (from a job they don't have), their utility payments are free or discounted and their mortgage is low and govt backed. They buy steaks and lobster on Govt provided food stamps and use the cash from their under the table job to buy booze, smokes and drugs.
You THINK that it's the minority that abuse the system but I'm convinced through years of observation it's the MAJORITY that are a busing and the minority that either REALLY need it or are paying for it!
bingo!
I had one of the leaches in front of me yesterday at the grocery store.. The kid was wearing designers jeans hangin off his ass, brand new Air Jordans, had cart full of junk food, a 5lb tub of protein and a case of muscle milk. At checkout, guess how he paid? Food stamp card
The system's fukked.
A Guy I worked with used to take his food stamps to the city can cash them in for $$. Then he'd buy coke.....
.
Lunk Quote
You THINK that it's the minority that abuse the system but I'm convinced through years of observation it's the MAJORITY that are a busing and the minority that either REALLY need it or are paying for it![/QUOTE]
I have to agree , and I am a man that collects. People will cheat wherever there is a loop. The scum remain the scum for the most part, BURT there are the exceptions just like life has it. It would be a shame for the cheaters to ruining it for the honest and one's that worked and paid in.
So I agree something should be done. I have not figured it out. Because I was a fvck up and ruined and did at some level cheat the system during my addiction have any right to continue. Morally I don't think so because I have contributed in so many ways. The companies that prospered during and straight out due to my employ. The people that got more for their money because of my integrity and Quality control during my employ and the taxes I've put in, should I now give it up and say well just take the system away ? I think not.
This is just some of my 3 or 4 cents I'm sharing because I am living it. Just saying, just ranting I guess...crazy mike
That's the problem......Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy mike
Obama more or less said "since no one has an answer..... This is what it's gonna be."
While I agree something needed to be done...... What was done isn't the best option. Just my opinion..... We shouldn't just do something to say we did.
Almost every president in the last 30 years tried to get some kind of healthcare reform and couldn't this one did. Is it perfect? No. Will everyone like it? No. But he got it started, now lets build on it and take things out that don't work and add things that will. Something had to be done. I seem someone die from leukemia who was only 15. The dam insurance company refused to cover her, that's bullshit. Something had to be done. If we could ever get the dem and rep to work together again it could be fixed but the a...holes treat everything like a football game.
That's very unfortunate and I'm sorry to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ppwc1985
Again tho..... A patient can not be refused treatment for a life threatening disease..... Charity care has to be applied for.
I think we could have put in place some kind of healthcare system for children......
Idunno how anyone can trust our government with something so crucial when they fvck up everything they touch.
So obviously you're pro-life then right?? Everybody's got the right to life......and medical care too.
The solution obviously is to have someone else pay for all the problems and expenses of others. The problem with your whole line of thinking though us that you actually believe that there is a "someone else". There isn't a some one else and even if there were its not a right afforded us in the constitution.
Plain and simple medical care isn't a right we're granted. And why should be? Do you expect to not have to pay for work done on you car or home? I really don't understand why people think medical care should be free when there's absolutely no basis for it.
Your paying one way or another anyway. They have to accept you at ER and most of THEM don't pay so who do think pays now the boogeyman. No we do. So why no make everyone have insurance. Most of them that ppl talk about are on welfare and Medicare so there again we are still paying. Why not do something logical like if you have to be in state or federal help you have to take a drug test, that's to logical though cause then 75% of ppl on welfare wouldn't be on it. When it comes down to it we all pay anyway for something we don't use. I don't mind paying taxes but when they take 4-500 a week from me and give it to Egypt for their military budget just do they can keep the border safe for Israel that pisses me off. I got an idea, why not let Israel worry about I about themselves and Egypt pay their own military budget. And let me keep 300 if the 4-500 they keep every week. Looool never gonna happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt. Hartman
Healthcare is not a God given right nor a constitutional right. Health care is a system that our country made and put into place.
I paid a lot of money in and helped many an SSD person with my money now be that it is in place and was in place, are you saying I should just shrivel up and die. I own nothing, I have no savings, I don't get frills and vacations or food stamps. I don't ask for that. I only ask that we stay with what was promised to me. If not well I can't do sh!t, No gas, no food no meds, simple can't get much if I don't have an income. Take my disability away and I'm 62, want to hire me for that driving position to push and sell for your company, walk a site in the heat for 12 hours and direct. Maybe fallout on you job site. I don't really know what as a country we should do. It needs some fix and as I said before I haven't a clue.
Have you all got a savings account in place for your parents or do you say well, pap's that's it. Survival of the fittest, can't keep up pap's don't come to my house for dinner, take care of yourself. :shrug: .............cm
No, fetuses aren't living by my definition; I am definitely pro-choice. The Constitution has MANY flaws. There are laws in it that I don't agree with, and laws not in it that should be. My post was directly related to Hazard's post which stated that "people have the right to life." I think we should live in a society where we help each other out when it is possible.
This same argument can be made for all taxes. The people who make the most money are paying the most in taxes and are thus more responsible for many of the luxuries we enjoy (e.g. road work, building renovations, etc.). Should the rich get pissed that they pay more taxes, while the rest of us mooch off of them?
I see your point.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ppwc1985
But people who don't have insurance don't goto the ER for hang nails. They get charity care for life saving treatments.
What's going to stop people from using the insurance we're gunna provide them and goto the doctor or hospital for every single thing?
Those who don't pay into it will mooch even more.....
i think health care should be a right, hell owning an object "a gun" is a right but not to stay healthy
everyone is paying for the poor now. When the poor goto the ER and get taken care of for free, we still pay, thats why everything at a hospital cost a redicoulus amount, because they have to pass off the cost for all the free shit, But if some more of those people had health insurance then that would lower that,
Also am i worried about the governemnt running and making choices on whats covered for healthcare. Have you ever dealt with an insurance company? They deny shit, find reasons not to cover crap, no matter what someone else is still making the decision. So its the government or some company trying to save money. Your screwed either way
And you all know i know alot of european girls. Most of them all go back to their country if they need something major, or think they have a big health issue. Why cause its easier there then in the US and its worth sometimes a $1500 plane ticket.
Gun ownership was one of the points I was subtly referencing about the Constitution, lol. We do indeed already pay a lot for the care that others can't afford. Once these people have insurance, those costs will definitely be reduced. I read somewhere that over half of the emergency care now goes uncompensated. How do you think they make that up?
No doubt that's common beyond belief and ridiculous.
My aunt is an ER nurse in ft laud and always talks about the ridiculous amount of people who go to the ER for minor issues but so many of them call 911 so they can be transported because they don't have the money or more likely don't want to spend the money to get there. Then when they get discharged because they shouldn't have been at the hospital in the first place, it becomes the ER's job to get them off the premises when they get too crowded.
Our healthcare system needs work is Obama care the answer who knows. I guess we will see.