Basically what started this is that Musclescience said he runs deca only cycles.
I'm very intrigued to hear more about this.
he is special.... I remember when I was younger I tried running a cycle without test and it was the worst experience of my life!Originally Posted by DocToxin8
Oh fck its hard enough to run a 19 nor WITH test wouldnt even attempt lol
This will turn out to be a great way thread! I'm subscribing. We are all so different in the way we react to compounds. We're like myself I get no sides from test or 19 Nors
If your interested, as a TRT patient I'm having an hard time with Test. I totally hate it and if it wasn't for the need of E2 I'd drop it.
Sides are hard to tolerate, I might list them if you wish, they develop over the course of hrs once T levels raise, so genomic AR activation isn't at play here, and neither would be non-genomic since neither with Tren nor primo I have been able to reproduce them. My suspects for the moment go to DHT metabolites 3-alpha/beta-diol.
were are your t levels at?Originally Posted by bizzarro
So what's the truths and the controversial claim?
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
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These are bloods as of September, 75mg TE 2x weekly, no AI.
We don't really know where tT lands but can't be much higher, yes this is above therapeutic range, but I don't aromatize enough at physiological levels. Lowered to 60mg 2x weekly since. Lately I've added 10mg winstrol daily in order to get rid of that SHBG, so I can get away with lower TRT dose, and as expected, I felt the sides coming from raised T levels.
and what sides are you experiencing?Originally Posted by bizzarro
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
have you ever ran labs to see were your test levels are when your running other compounds with no test along side?Originally Posted by MuscleScience
Defo subbed
I will also chime in with we are so different from one another this thread proves that and also gives some insight to those(me included) who have not ran cycles back when test wasn't the base of each cycle.
Although that's not how I'd run one or advise someone to do so... I'd like to hear why some can and can't handle test and what their experiences(good/& bad) were like, as well as their gains/sides etc?
Apathy, lethargy, foggy brain, cognitive issues, anhedonia, fatigue, muscle hypotonia w/weakness, no pumps, hands/feet paresthesias, freezing cold hands/feet, and other symptoms suggestive of poor circulation.
Limbs go numb easily, arms feel like burning if only I dare to raise them above shoulders level, sometimes I get a feeling of lightheadness so strong I'm unable to stand upright.
Does any of the above sound familiar to you?
Of course I get the point, but your not a TRT patient, please understand I have to deal with this for life. Were yourself to get on TRT, what would you do?
subbed
maybe your testosterone levels are to highOriginally Posted by bizzarro
(I'm sorry but I'm very busy today, will contribute more tomorrow, glad to see the thread going.)
There's always some "established truths" about everything from training to diet to AAS. Like, use test as base, use an AI, do PCT with nolva and clomid but not hCG, which should be run during cycle, etc.
Dont do oral only cycles, etc.
I will jump back in tomorrow guys!![]()
It is by no means an established truth that testosterone should form the base of all cycles. Personally I've met dozens of people who ran DECA only, Tren only, Winstrol only etc.
They survived and turned out fine for the most part, but there is something we know about physiology and endocrinology that tells us that what they did is a bad idea.
I have and always will recommend testosterone as your base for any cycle. On this matter I will not compromise.
The "test base" vs "no test" debate will go on forever. I just hope people will make more educated decisions with regards to their overall health and well being.
No, I have not. I've just always assumed it would be next to zero.
I like long esters, I do not like pinning often and I prefer that my hormone levels stay more balanced and not as fluxed like it can with short esters.
I don't get any of those sides other than some anxiety maybe. Most of my issues are estrogenic in nature when I run test. I of course run letro or Adex etc when I ran test. Something changed in me after a few years and I gradually started being able to tolerate T less and less. All my pre and post cycle labs always came out ok.
I think my issues were helped to some extent of not running short 12 week cycles I started doing 15-20 weeks cycles. Again, there is no point in my mind to do a short cycle like that. Tank your natural T production, go off and run a pct just to do it over again in 10-12 weeks anyway.
it would be interesting to know because of it was at zero then estrogen would win the battle at the mammary glandOriginally Posted by MuscleScience
Marcus, you always say that shit when I got you backed into a corner. Then you pretend you're mad at me, then I feel bad, then I PM you saying I'm sorry, then you say something in British about English humor. And then the cycle repeats itself. I'm not falling for it this time brah...![]()
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
I still haven't a clue what your talking about, I'm not mad or backed in a corner ( you never have and never will) I simply asked what you meant because I haven't a clue what your on about when you confirmed you was a male last time you was in Europe. No need to get all hurt mate I didn't understand your answer but it may just be a language barrier hey lol lol doesn't matter dont worry about it![]()
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
I like MS diff takes on cycles..it's interesting to have a range of opinions esp when it comes from someone who knows there Sh!t..twice in the past I've ran tren with no test after about 2 weeks I run into serious sexual sides and I start getting off balanced emotionally ..I've found a small dose 2-300mg a wk/ min is a necessity for me in any cycle..that's me though we all respond differently to different compounds..
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
“If you can't explain it to a second grader, you probably don't understand it yourself.” Albert Einstein
"Juice slow, train smart, it's a long journey."
BG
"In a world full of pussies, being a redneck is not a bad thing."
OB
Body building is a way of life..........but can not get in the way of your life.
BG
No Source Check Please, I don't know of any.
Depressed? Healthy Way Out!
Tips For Young Lifters
MuscleScience Training Log
My T is at the low range of normal. Has been ever before I started AAS. That is why I decided to go on. I always seemed to have trouble recovering from workouts, low energy, mental fog and all that. I was to young when it was discovered and no MD would put me on TRT. Even though I had both symptoms and confirmtive tests to back up their diagnosis to anyone. Finally I decided to try it and loved it, loved how I finally felt normal and loved how I could finally lift without some silly injury popping up over time.
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