Should Obesity be classified as a disease?

[SocioMachiavelli]

https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-...sease-11597486

I was just reading the news before heading out and came across this....

Any intellectual thoughts on this?

[Gallowmere]

It IS a disease state, by any definition. It carries an absurd list of symptoms, shortens lifespan drastically, etc.

We could argue all day about “they did it to themselves”. Yeah? So did smokers. That doesn’t make emphysema, lung cancer, etc. not diseases.

[SocioMachiavelli]

I think it is a moot point. I think it primarily causes diseases which can have those effects or symptoms. But a disease in itself? I'm not so sure.

I also think that smoking is not a disease either, it causes them sure.. but it isn't one. With smoking you could argue that it is addictive, but you can get nicotine via patches.. or vaping etc. IMO The argument of " I enjoy a cigarette" is not indicative of an addiction but of a pleasurable habit.

Is eating shit addictive? It can be enjoyable but addictive?

I also think classifying it as an illness will result in people seeking benefits or sympathy when the reality is you can reverse obesity.. You can't reverse some of it's consequences which are diseases themselves, but you can reverse early onset type two diabetes etc.

If for example you have just been classified as obese... Without yet having any other permanent conditions occur... You can reverse it's symptoms without medical treatment.. Does that warrant classifying it as a disease?

Just playing devil's advocate



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[Gallowmere]

I think it is a moot point. I think it primarily causes diseases which can have those effects or symptoms. But a disease in itself? I'm not so sure.

I also think that smoking is not a disease either, it causes them sure.. but it isn't one. With smoking you could argue that it is addictive, but you can get nicotine via patches.. or vaping etc. IMO The argument of " I enjoy a cigarette" is not indicative of an addiction but of a pleasurable habit.

Is eating shit addictive? It can be enjoyable but addictive?

I also think classifying it as an illness will result in people seeking benefits or sympathy when the reality is you can reverse obesity.. You can't reverse some of it's consequences which are diseases themselves, but you can reverse early onset type two diabetes etc.

If for example you have just been classified as obese... Without yet having any other permanent conditions occur... You can reverse it's symptoms without medical treatment.. Does that warrant classifying it as a disease?

Just playing devil's advocate



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Smoking itself isn’t a disease, neither is overeating. What both of them can cause through abuse are. Those dose makes the poison and all of that.

I’m not yet convinced that food has addictive properties that leads to abuse, but then, I’d have said the same thing about video games years ago. The Skinner Box models and pain tolerance designs used in modern games to get people to come out of pocket via micro transactions is slowly changing my mind there. Any thing that causes massive dopamine hits can be a problem.

Yes, all of the problems with obesity can be largely reversed over time by reducing the “dose” to proper levels, just like any kind of poisoning. However, what damage remains hasn’t been fully teased out yet, from what I’ve seen. Again though, the ability to reverse a disease doesn’t make it “not a disease”.

Unfortunately though, unlike many diseases, it’s one that doesn’t have a “pill cure”, so it’s unlikely that people are going to unfuck themselves.

[GearHeaded]

there are genetic factors (not just lifestyle choices) that definitely point to it being considered a disease. for example, someone could have hormonal issues that make them Leptin resistant. if Leptin is released (or perhaps not enough is released) and your brain does not respond to it (ie, is resistant to it) then your natural survival instinct to consume food will take over and you'll continue this process even when you don't need to. this will also throw off your energy balance (your body will keep wanting to store energy).

thats just one example, but you can see how it could be classified as a genetic "disease". I'm sure there are people born with Leptin or Ghrelin and other hormonal issues that effect body composition just like people are born with autoimmune disease that attack their pancreas and destroy their ability to produce insulin and they become diabetic (they didn't become diabetic because of lifestyle choices, they were born that way)

[Gallowmere]

there are genetic factors (not just lifestyle choices) that definitely point to it being considered a disease. for example, someone could have hormonal issues that make them Leptin resistant. if Leptin is released (or perhaps not enough is released) and your brain does not respond to it (ie, is resistant to it) then your natural survival instinct to consume food will take over and you'll continue this process even when you don't need to. this will also throw off your energy balance (your body will keep wanting to store energy).

thats just one example, but you can see how it could be classified as a genetic "disease". I'm sure there are people born with Leptin or Ghrelin and other hormonal issues that effect body composition just like people are born with autoimmune disease that attack their pancreas and destroy their ability to produce insulin and they become diabetic (they didn't become diabetic because of lifestyle choices, they were born that way)

These are all valid points, and I really need to get back into my habit if just using “T2D” instead of saying diabetic. Whenever I use it within the context of obesity, I’m referring to Type-2, as I can honestly think of MAYBE one T1 diabetic that I’ve ever met who was even overweight, let alone obese.

[kelkel]

I think it should be classified as a disease "precurser" if anything, but not an actual disease. Otherwise, anything that may eventually lead to issues down the road is now a disease. Society is not blameless and personal choices matter.

AAS can lead to problems down the road, does that make it a disease?

[Gallowmere]

I think it should be classified as a disease "precurser" if anything, but not an actual disease. Otherwise, anything that may eventually lead to issues down the road is now a disease. Society is not blameless and personal choices matter.

AAS can lead to problems down the road, does that make it a disease?

As with the smoking thing, you’re conflating abuse with end result. The more accurate comparison for AAS abuse or smoking would be the overconsumption of food, not the obesity itself.

[kelkel]

As with the smoking thing, you’re conflating abuse with end result. The more accurate comparison for AAS abuse or smoking would be the overconsumption of food, not the obesity itself.

Disagree with conflating abuse and end result. Regardless, very interesting topic Gallo. Look forward to more responses.

[GearHeaded]

As with the smoking thing, you’re conflating abuse with end result. The more accurate comparison for AAS abuse or smoking would be the overconsumption of food, not the obesity itself.

I'll throw a curve ball in here .. what if you get Lung cancer not because you ever smoked, but lived in a house with smokers and were exposed to second hand smoke. your lung cancer is a disease non the less right (no matter if it was from abuse or not).
now lets say you live 18 years with your parents who know nothing of nutrition and health and they over feed you junk food on a daily basis. you didn't personally choose this (just like the lung cancer person who never smoked) yet you still ended up obese.

at the end of the day, if you end up at the doctor for treatment for a 'disease' its still their job to treat it as what it is no matter the past or how you may of ended up with such a disease.

some people may have no pity for smokers with lung cancer, but how do you really know they were smokers and not simply a factory worker exposed to asbestos . no matter the 'fault' , most diseases come from an outside factor/force (self induced or not).

[GearHeaded]

imo , IF your 200 pounds over weight and extremely unhealthy because of it (call it obesity or not), then your in a 'diseased' state. you need your health fixed.. just like someone that has cancer and needs treatment. if they can get cured of cancer then they will no longer have the disease. if you can get healthy and lose the weight then you'll be cured of your 'diseased state' (how someone ended up over weight or ended up with cancer does not make their current diseased condition any less of a disease or not)

[kelkel]

a factory worker exposed to asbestos . no matter the 'fault' , most diseases come from an outside factor/force (self induced or not).

A close relative just died a couple months ago from mesothelioma. Horrible stuff.
Exposure to asbestos from past employment decades ago.

[Gallowmere]

I'll throw a curve ball in here .. what if you get Lung cancer not because you ever smoked, but lived in a house with smokers and were exposed to second hand smoke. your lung cancer is a disease non the less right (no matter if it was from abuse or not).
now lets say you live 18 years with your parents who know nothing of nutrition and health and they over feed you junk food on a daily basis. you didn't personally choose this (just like the lung cancer person who never smoked) yet you still ended up obese.

at the end of the day, if you end up at the doctor for treatment for a 'disease' its still their job to treat it as what it is no matter the past or how you may of ended up with such a disease.

some people may have no pity for smokers with lung cancer, but how do you really know they were smokers and not simply a factory worker exposed to asbestos . no matter the 'fault' , most diseases come from an outside factor/force (self induced or not).

Absolutely, and this doesn’t change the fact that consumption of energy beyond the body’s needs led to the obese state. I personally think we’re a little too inclined in the west to want to figure out where to lay blame for a problem, as opposed to fixing it. It causes a fucked up Ouroboros of victim mentality as well. “Muh genetics, muh parents, etc. etc.”

I’m more in the “I don’t give a shit what caused this problem, beyond finding the solution” kind of person. In this case however, barring rare genetic disorders, we already know the solution; it’s just up to the individual to implement it.

[Couchlockd]

These are all valid points, and I really need to get back into my habit if just using “T2D” instead of saying diabetic. Whenever I use it within the context of obesity, I’m referring to Type-2, as I can honestly think of MAYBE one T1 diabetic that I’ve ever met who was even overweight, let alone obese.

Yes I too never seen an obese T1D

[guitarzan]

disease noun
dis·​ease | \di-ˈzēz \
Definition of disease
1 : a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : SICKNESS, MALADY
infectious diseases
a rare genetic disease
heart disease
2 : a harmful development (as in a social institution)

[guitarzan]

The definition of disease seems to be pretty broad, so I'd say even if its self inflicted, it's still a disease by definition I guess, but I prefer not to call things that can be fixed by ones owns actions, like losing weight, or stop using drugs and so on, especially when I see friends and family dying from diseases they cant do anything about

[Chrisp83TRT]

Let's be frank ...

Getting to that level of body fat requires alot of food over time.
We can all safely say obesity doesn't really come from genetics... But more some your environment or the Wayne's cope with life .
For some it's drugs , gambling , alcohol,

For others it's food.

It's more so a very deadly addiction and it needs to be treated as something very serious.

Now... Obesity i feel isn't an illness but can cause many Illneses.



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[Proximal]

I personally don’t feel it should be classified as a disease. It is a massive problem/epidemic, but ‘disease’ as is commonly used in the medical profession, I’d say no.

Our lifestyles in the US have changed drastically since the 60’s. Our sense of proportions is warped, but engrained in our heads as being acceptable.
An enjoyable trip to McDonalds in the 60’s WAS 1 hamburger (2 would be considered over the top), a small fries and an 8 ounce coke. Take a walk around town back then, there were no water bottles, you didn’t feel the need to constantly quench your thirst and replenish your electrolytes with Gatorade or refresh yourself with a mocha-Frappuccino. In the 70’s, do you remember those cut-off shirts dudes wore that showed your stomach? Most of the guys wore them, maybe it was the fact that we had PE every day.

Many of my students today cannot make it through a single class without a bag of chips and/or something to drink.

Aditional point of of fact, there are a lot of obese individuals with type 1 diabetes out there, just like there are a lot of non-obese individuals with type 2. And, with that said, obesity is not a guarantee that you will experience certain diseases.

[diesel101]

No it is not a disease in my mind. I know many obese people including family members and knowing their past they all could have avoided it or reversed it.

I know three people that had surgeries for weight loss and all of them lost a lot of weight from it. All three of these people are heavier now than before they had surgeries years ago. In my opinion it is not a disease but in most cases a condition caused by an eating disorder.

I am sure as mentioned their are a few cases where it is caused by an actual medical condition that is unavoidable.

Just food for thought I am 6' 1" 225 lbs and I believe I am borderline obese by the medical standards.

[Proximal]

Yep borderline. I’m just overweight so I must have my sh** together, lol.

Of course we all are aware, but be it fat or muscle, that poor little left ventricle has to pump blood to those additional pounds & eventually will not be a happy camper.

[Gallowmere]

Yep borderline. I’m just overweight so I must have my sh** together, lol.

Of course we all are aware, but be it fat or muscle, that poor little left ventricle has to pump blood to those additional pounds & eventually will not be a happy camper.

Yeap. I will admit though, the BMI shit will never track well with trained populations, just because of how much adipose tissue genpop carries by comparison.

Of course, once you get completely ridiculous (I don’t give a shit what you’re made up of, 275 lbs. isn’t good for the CV system unless you’re like 7’ tall) it goes downhill no matter what, but I’m more referring to the fact that at 5’10”, I’m overweight at 187 lbs. As anyone who knows anything about any strength/physique sport can tell you, I’m light as shit for someone my height.

[Proximal]

Yeap. I will admit though, the BMI shit will never track well with trained populations, just because of how much adipose tissue genpop carries by comparison.

Of course, once you get completely ridiculous (I don’t give a shit what you’re made up of, 275 lbs. isn’t good for the CV system unless you’re like 7’ tall) it goes downhill no matter what, but I’m more referring to the fact that at 5’10”, I’m overweight at 187 lbs. As anyone who knows anything about any strength/physique sport can tell you, I’m light as shit for someone my height.

First off, you're left-ventricle/heart can't differentiate between overweight & "ridiculously" overweight. And of course the heavier you are the harder it will have to work, of course. I was just making a comparison between us & what is typically perceived as being an obese individual. Every time I visit my medical provider for as something as unrelated as a dry needling to my rhomboids, I am weighed & lessoned to that I am overweight.

And body weight wise, even in this sport to you, you are as "light as shit" is a relative statement. Sorry, was a NSCA member for decades. At 5'10", 187 with your bf %, you're a stud. However, I fully realize the forum that I am in & have watched the progression of what is "big" progress from Arnold to dudes like Big-Rami.

Just was making a tongue in cheek comment.

Obesity, from a capitalist point of view, is as good as it gets. From fast food, sports drinks, soda & Starbucks. Then the fitness industry to try to burn it off. Lastly it employs countless individuals in the medical profession. And ultimately, the pharmaceutical industry. Man they are just DROOLING over the idea of giving statins to kids on a routine basis. They should have a special holiday to celebrate obesitys financial necessity.

[Gallowmere]

First off, you're left-ventricle/heart can't differentiate between overweight & "ridiculously" overweight. And of course the heavier you are the harder it will have to work, of course. I was just making a comparison between us & what is typically perceived as being an obese individual. Every time I visit my medical provider for as something as unrelated as a dry needling to my rhomboids, I am weighed & lessoned to that I am overweight.

And body weight wise, even in this sport to you, you are as "light as shit" is a relative statement. Sorry, was a NSCA member for decades. At 5'10", 187 with your bf %, you're a stud. However, I fully realize the forum that I am in & have watched the progression of what is "big" progress from Arnold to dudes like Big-Rami.

Just was making a tongue in cheek comment.

Obesity, from a capitalist point of view, is as good as it gets. From fast food, sports drinks, soda & Starbucks. Then the fitness industry to try to burn it off. Lastly it employs countless individuals in the medical profession. And ultimately, the pharmaceutical industry. Man they are just DROOLING over the idea of giving statins to kids on a routine basis. They should have a special holiday to celebrate obesitys financial necessity.

I was more pointing out that, as with many metrics, the BMI scale has the problem of absolutes. It’s a population based metric, so it has to have delineations somewhere. However, to pretend that you suddenly go from “healthy” at 175 lbs., to “unhealthy” at 185 is patently absurd.

As with all things, gradations are better, and while technically this is a thing in BMI charts, it doesn’t appear to influence advice doled out in the seven minute visits.

My bloodwork, stamina, CV capacity strength, etc. are all markedly better at my current 187 (tier 2 overweight) than they were when I was 150 (middle of the road normal). Of course, if I keep going upward, I’m eventually going to start running headlong into diminishing returns, and eventually health will start to take a hit and go back in the negative direction. Where this point is, I don’t yet know. I’m going to see if I can find it though.

[diesel101]

Being all of us are obese I will be selling weight watchers to help all of us lose weight just PM me.

[Gallowmere]

Being all of us are obese I will be selling weight watchers to help all of us lose weight just PM me.

I’m still 29 lbs. shy of obese. Give it time though, I’m only 3 weeks into 600mg.

[Couchlockd]

The hospital my dad worked at did yearly physical exams.

They told him he's dangerously over weight.

He was 5'10" @ 240 with a 30" waist.....

You'd think they'd think with thier eyes, not thier narrow minded chart.

He literally had to remove shirt and flex for them to change his chart.

They do the physical to decide to increase premiums or not.

Dr. Suck

[Beetlegeuse]

Nothing is ever your fault.

Somebody else is always to blame for everything bad that happens to you.

You should not have to bear the burden of the consequences of the actions you take.

Only government can save you.

[TheChosen1]

As a former obese person myself, I don't think it constitutes as a disease. It's more psychological. Although I once weighed 375 pounds,I was not a big eater. I only ate the wrong foods (fast food) and powerlifted without cardio. But I have met many who feel that one burger won't due. So they need to consume 5 instead.

[fiddlesticks]

As a former obese person myself, I don't think it constitutes as a disease. It's more psychological. Although I once weighed 375 pounds,I was not a big eater. I only ate the wrong foods (fast food) and powerlifted without cardio. But I have met many who feel that one burger won't due. So they need to consume 5 instead.

Some people just feel way less pleasure from stuff in general and need to eat more to feel good. It's the reason amphetamines make people lost so much weight.

[MuscleScience]

I was at an ACSM/AHA conference shortly after obesity was classified a disease. Needless to say it was not a popular change. I saw it as a business opportunity as I was mistaken in thinking that non-medical/surgical interventions were going to start popping up and be covered by insurance. Nearly 12 years later, that has not happened and I don’t see it anytime soon.

[fiddlesticks]

I was at an ACSM/AHA conference shortly after obesity was classified a disease. Needless to say it was not a popular change. I saw it as a business opportunity as I was mistaken in thinking that non-medical/surgical interventions were going to start popping up and be covered by insurance. Nearly 12 years later, that has not happened and I don’t see it anytime soon.

Anything that works is either illegal or near impossible to get prescribed lol.

Amphetamine? Good fucking luck with that, heres some useless wellbutrin.

T3? Nope, have some completely useless T4.

Testosterone injections? NO! You get a worthless cream

DNP ? That actually worked too well so we just ignorantly say that it will melt your organs and turn you into yellow mush, that'll keep the masses from using it. Instead of being slightly warmer and potentially uncomfortable lets just be fat as fuck and die 50 years early. I know someone who is literally 400lbs and refuses to take any chemical enhancement to lose weight because its apparently unhealthy, dead (lol) serious. Once you're that fat and your neurochemical system is so fucked say goodbye to rational thinking skills. I'm willing to wager a majority of completely insane people/serial killers/ rapists/ who are overweight have obesity-related neurochemical fuckery and that is the main reason they behave the way they do. Look at north Korea for example, their leaders have all been fat and all have been complete assholes.

Government must keep the population fat, drinking, smoking and taking pills that do absolutely nothing then sending them to 80 year old "doctors" who probably partake in aforementioned activities to tell them how they have a mystical disease and it can only be fixed with 999999999$ surgery. The end. Rant complete.

[Obs]

https://news.sky.com/story/call-for-...sease-11597486

I was just reading the news before heading out and came across this....

Any intellectual thoughts on this?

No.
Hell no.

It would sooner classify as a mental or behavioral disorder.

Alcoholism is not a disease either.
I have heard arguments trying to point chemical imbalance as a culprit or depression... Well, ok those aren't diseases either.

When things are classified as diseses it just makes excuse for shit behavior imo.

It is no more a disease than me being horny and cheating.

"Oh, honey its not my fault, my dick is a disease." Lol -Gilette

[Obs]

Lets say you have alcoholism, which is a disease and not a behavioral disorder. You are genetically predispositioned toward alcoholism.
You go get drunk and have unprotected sex because of you steroid horniness. You get a girl pregnant but cant afford the kid or the divorce that ensues.

So is the kid, your wife, the steroids , the alcohol, the girl, or your genetics a disease?

None.

You do have a lotta damn behavioral disorders though and you need to fix that shit before it kills you.



If you get herpes or aids from the unprotected sex, that is a serious disease that resulted from your behavior. Its not about self infliction. That makes no difference.

Obesity is no more a disease than life itself.
Yes you can get diseases from obesity. Heart disease for example. The cause of the disease was a mental or behavioral disorder NOT A DISEASE.

[fiddlesticks]

No.
Hell no.

It would sooner classify as a mental or behavioral disorder.

Alcoholism is not a disease either.
I have heard arguments trying to point chemical imbalance as a culprit or depression... Well, ok those aren't diseases either.

When things are classified as diseses it just makes excuse for shit behavior imo.

It is no more a disease than me being horny and cheating.

"Oh, honey its not my fault, my dick is a disease." Lol -Gilette

With the behavioral thing, a huge problem is i think once you are superfat your neurotransmitter and appetite system is megaultrafucked in a unique way lol. All pleasure stimulation is sooooo much weaker. You probably wont believe this part but the 400lb guy i was speaking of previously can literally take 1000mg of methamphetamine and still be fat and want to eat. That seriously shows how fucked the appetite and pleasure system is when you're that fat. Super obesity builds a tolerance to pleasure like no drug does its awful, you don't get much pleasure to begin with then end up totally fucked harder than if you were a methhead. Pretty sure this all ties to insulin and insulin sensitivity since insulin is the main appetite related hormone. Once insulin isnt working rip in peace.

I think it's simple as people get fat because they eat too much because they hate their life in general because... 2019 sucks. Complete environmental cause.

[EDCG19]

Yes it kind of should be a disease because we have too many fat fucks causing $$$ issues in any country where they choose to stay obese and drain the country resources
Here's the thing the leading cause of death is heart disease and has been for what 60 years now? Its a serious issue and we need to figure this out

I'm still pro eating meat and don't think going vegan is the total solution but there is something seriously wrong with the modern diet and living style of human beings
Heart disease is killing more people every year than anything else (this shit has been worrying me lately as well because of gear use and popping a heart valve during lifting, not sure anymore)

Carbs are also an issue in some cases, people eating straight up junk food. They buy donuts and sugary cookies at work and I don't get it, you're not getting anything but sugar and fat out of that donut
I dont need that

[fiddlesticks]

Yes it kind of should be a disease because we have too many fat fucks causing $$$ issues in any country where they choose to stay obese
Here's the thing the leading cause of death is heart disease and has been for what 60 years now? Its a serious issue and we need to figure this out

I'm still pro eating meat and don't think going vegan is the total solution but there is something seriously wrong with the modern diet and living style of human beings
Heart disease is killing more people every year than anything else (this shit has been worrying me lately as well because of gear use and popping a heart valve during lifting, not sure anymore)

It isnt the diet man it's just people hate living in 2019 lol. Nothing is the damn way nature intended it to be. People overeat because pleasure is harder to come by when you have stupidly hard life goals. We are made to fuck, sleep and eat not stress about shit that was never meant to even exist

[EDCG19]

It isnt the diet man it's just people hate living in 2019 lol. Nothing is the damn way nature intended it to be. People overeat because pleasure is harder to come by when you have stupidly hard life goals.

Don't get me started on this... "they" have destroyed the natural system of order in society and the natural way of life
I absolutely despise living and working in a large city, I gotta go off-grid and get out of this system before i waste more time supporting it with my time/life/resources
Fuck the system.

[fiddlesticks]

Don't get me started on this... "they" have destroyed the natural system of order in society and the natural way of life
I absolutely despise living and working in a large city, I gotta go off-grid and get out of this system before i waste more time supporting it with my time/life/resources
Fuck the system.

I seriously try hard as possible to maintain low as can be stress levels with modern day bullshit lol it gets v hard sometimes. So many modern things make me want to vomit repeatedly repeatedly.

[Gallowmere]

Yes it kind of should be a disease because we have too many fat fucks causing $$$ issues in any country where they choose to stay obese and drain the country resources
Here's the thing the leading cause of death is heart disease and has been for what 60 years now? Its a serious issue and we need to figure this out

I'm still pro eating meat and don't think going vegan is the total solution but there is something seriously wrong with the modern diet and living style of human beings
Heart disease is killing more people every year than anything else (this shit has been worrying me lately as well because of gear use and popping a heart valve during lifting, not sure anymore)

Carbs are also an issue in some cases, people eating straight up junk food. They buy donuts and sugary cookies at work and I don't get it, you're not getting anything but sugar and fat out of that donut
I dont need that

You contradicted yourself in your final paragraph: “carbs are also an issue”, then went on to acknowledge the actual problem. I’ll let this shot from Stephan Guyenet’s book cover the point for me:

[< <Samson> >]

Is stupidity a disease?

Seems to be so wide spread