The biggest wrong idea about alcohol and substance abuse

I've tried a few different religions, lived in a temple and went to a few meditation centres, churches, mosques. I've read the biographies and autobiographies of the people I most admired hoping that I would somehow touch my own soul up against theirs.

It is ironic that the group that I criticise the most, the Catholics, has spoken the most sense about alcohol, substance abuse and drugs:

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"It isn't what goes into a man that makes him unclean but what comes out of him"

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There are alcoholic fathers and mothers all over the world who make their children feel loved.

Please read that last paragraph a second time.

Some of these parents read their child a story at bedtime and enroll them every year in swimming lessons. Some of them even teach their child a musical instrument, and again some of them even show their child how to turn wood and weld metal in the garage.

Speaking as a grown man who hasn't seen any member of his family in 5 years, and whose expartner suicided 4 years ago, I can tell you that when I reach back into my memory, I'm not really reaching for resources or anything that I can touch with my hand. To the parents among you who are reading this, I can tell you that your child when they grow up won't be thinking back on remote control cars, iPhones and front-and-back-brake-discs for their bicycle.

It is in our nature to make associations between bad things and bad consequences, and so a lot of us think that alcohol is the devil, or drugs are the devil, or even gambling is the devil (we can talk more about whether this is a behaviour or an emotion).

I don't think that it is fair to criticize anyone for anything other than what they have done. So if a person drinks a fifth of gin every day, and still keeps their household in order, then what can you really accuse them of?

Some people try to sort their life out by cutting out all substances -- alcohol, drugs, whatever -- and this seems to be a good idea for a lot of people. But we must maintain respect for the people who haven't done anything wrong and yet still drink a little and smoke a little.

There is a member of this forum who posts pretty much daily, and who admits to daily drinking out of necessity, and I think most of us here have the greatest respect and admiration for him -- I mean if I lived within 50 miles of him I'd probably call around now and again (and probably make up excuses for why I had to come around).

Don't lose sight of what we're trying to do here in life. Every single one of us boils down to this:

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A genetic lottery and life experiences

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All of us are nothing more than a genetic lottery and life experiences.

I have a steadfastly strong admiration for the people whom I see struggle daily in life, the people who above all make their children feel loved while they simultaneously keep themselves ticking over at great effort.

FC, I always feel that if a person balances more good with less bad, then they are alright by me. Agree with everything you just posted. I don’t associate with my family and my wife and I too have dealt with a suicide a couple of years back. I empathize with you in those areas.

I feel that we do what we must do to move forward. I don’t condone hurting or taking advantage of others to do so, but if someone is struggling to better themselves as a human, then they will stumble sometimes and we should help them up, rather than judge why they fell.

As someone who drinks to excess nightly, I’ve always rationalized that I’ve always gotten up for work, never has had the drinking compromise any part of my life (except getting into single digits bf, lol) and it allows me to be me.

Very wise post FC, TY for allowing me to share. If you travel the states one day and want to venture out to Los Angeles, you would be welcome here.

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Originally Posted by Proximal

As someone who drinks to excess nightly, I’ve always rationalized that I’ve always gotten up for work, never has had the drinking compromise any part of my life (except getting into single digits bf, lol) and it allows me to be me.

Very wise post FC, TY for allowing me to share. If you travel the states one day and want to venture out to Los Angeles, you would be welcome here.

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I prefer 'Kimbo' for what its worth (if *admin* would let me change my fucking name!!!), but Thomas will do too as you know.

Heroism in the eyes of an unmatured child is the likes of Bruce Wilis in Die Hard, or Hercules on the Playstation. But true heart and soul and heroism goes into painstakingly preserving the people and situations around you while you can barely preserve yourself.

My friend died in January, after I accompanied him to three rehab appointments over two or three years. Phone call after phone call after email after email to different rehabs. His grave, four months laters, is still untended to. I don't think his family have visited. I reckon.... the person who is entitled to arrange and design a grave.... is the person willing to do so. In the next week or so, I need to dig the top 2 inches of soil and lay down black peat. I will keep it simple.

Admiration and respect -- when it comes down to it -- belongs to the people who keep on keeping on.

Much respect to you Proximal -- I don't know your given name -- and if I'm rich in the future and have oodles of spare time then I'll buy you skates and build a small beginners' ramp with you out your back garden (about 4" high).

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Originally Posted by Fluidic Cameron

I prefer 'Kimbo' for what its worth (if *admin* would let me change my fucking name!!!), but Thomas will do too as you know.

Heroism in the eyes of an unmatured child is the likes of Bruce Wilis in Die Hard, or Hercules on the Playstation. But true heart and soul and heroism goes into painstakingly preserving the people and situations around you while you can barely preserve yourself.

My friend died in January, after I accompanied him to three rehab appointments over two or three years. Phone call after phone call after email after email to different rehabs. His grave, four months laters, is still untended to. I don't think his family have visited. I reckon.... the person who is entitled to arrange and design a grave.... is the person willing to do so. In the next week or so, I need to dig the top 2 inches of soil and lay down black peat. I will keep it simple.

Admiration and respect -- when it comes down to it -- belongs to the people who keep on keeping on.

Much respect to you Proximal -- I don't know your given name -- and if I'm rich in the future and have oodles of spare time then I'll buy you skates and build a small beginners' ramp with you out your back garden (about 4" high).

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We knew our friend had a death wish, we all saw it and did our best. And it came to no surprise to any of us when it finally occurred, but it doesn’t make it easier to accept in any way, that’s for sure. I am very sorry about your friend.

Respect back at you as well, Kimbo.

Put me on a pair of skates and I’ll dislocate my hip replacements lol. If you get that much money and want to fly over, a wonderful dinner and conversation will suit me fine, and it’s my treat. My wife and I are gracious hosts and you will be welcome.

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Originally Posted by Proximal

As someone who drinks to excess nightly, I’ve always rationalized that I’ve always gotten up for work, never has had the drinking compromise any part of my life (except getting into single digits bf, lol) and it allows me to be me.

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Ain't that the truth....

If I didn't drink my glasses of vodka every night I might actually get lean...

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Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

Ain't that the truth....

If I didn't drink my glasses of vodka every night I might actually get lean...

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LOL DD! Love my vodka. I went to a Russian restaurant and had horseradish infused vodka. I couldn’t stop drinking it that night. We made our own; very easy to do. Damn! If not, give me any vodka cold & I’m GTG.

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Originally Posted by Proximal

We knew our friend had a death wish, we all saw it and did our best. And it came to no surprise to any of us when it finally occurred, but it doesn’t make it easier to accept in any way, that’s for sure. I am very sorry about your friend.

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As far as I know, my friend's death was an accidental overdose. I would never definitively call a death a suicide unless it was blatantly obvious. I knew that my friend took heroin and so it stands to reason that he took a little too much this time (or that the stuff he got was a little stronger than what he was used to).

A life cut short is a life cut short. Some people think that the afterlife is a parallel universe, and that all the people we've lost are carrying on doing something over there. Maybe they are.

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Put me on a pair of skates and I’ll dislocate my hip replacements lol

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There's a lady all over social media that started skating in her 70's, and she's actually half-decent at it now (she can go up and down stairs).

I built my own ramp from wood and screws 2 weeks ago, and it took me another week to build up the nerve to go over it. I only started in my 30's so I was a little late:

https://youtu.be/PiSr2ZN4TA8

"the Seer is speaking with his gods, he will see what the future will become,, in his vision all in the way will fall,, before the mighty warriors,, the ritual of blood is a gift.. to the spirits of the sea, they will help us reach, the place of our Glory.. through the sea, through the fire, through honorable death in fighting, we will come to the sacred land.. nothing stops us nothing breaks us, our father awaits us, in the golden halls of Vallhala ..
our women our shield maidens, with the power of Freya, they are fighting like the bravest, side by side with our men..
Thor has blessed us with the thunder of the distant storm, our enemies are close, they are praying to their god, I can see the fear in their eyes, he can't help them in this battle, because ODIN our Father stays on our side... though the sea, through the fire, through the honorable death in fighting. . we will come to the sacred land..
nothing stops us, nothing breaks us, our father awaits us, in the golden halls of Vallhala "

"I smell blood around, the Valkyries are flying in the sky, the axes are pulling my hands to the ground, but I will continue to fight,, my fate belongs to the gods,, before the day I die, I must deserve the right , to join my fellow brothers .. through the sea, through fire, through honorable death in fighting.. we will come to the sacred land "


OP,, Flluidic Cameron.. I disagree with your post.
there are many many mighty warriors who can use the "substances" to cross though to the other side..
yes your are right, their are many victims that fall because they think they are a mighty warrior and they abuse the substances and the devil comes and takes their soul a way ..
these fools should be and stay sober..

but for the mighhty warriors, who can kiss the cheek of satan without fear ,, let them continue to partake of their ritual practice.

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Originally Posted by Fluidic Cameron

As far as I know, my friend's death was an accidental overdose. I would never definitively call a death a suicide unless it was blatantly obvious. I knew that my friend took heroin and so it stands to reason that he took a little too much this time (or that the stuff he got was a little stronger than what he was used to).

A life cut short is a life cut short. Some people think that the afterlife is a parallel universe, and that all the people we've lost are carrying on doing something over there. Maybe they are.



There's a lady all over social media that started skating in her 70's, and she's actually half-decent at it now (she can go up and down stairs).

I built my own ramp from wood and screws 2 weeks ago, and it took me another week to build up the nerve to go over it. I only started in my 30's so I was a little late:

https://youtu.be/PiSr2ZN4TA8

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I regret to say, that our friends death was deliberate.

I appreciate the gesture about the skates, but I’m afraid that my man-made hips are a bit more fragile than my originals and have to use a lot more caution.

That was a great jump by the way and that is one nice ramp!

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Originally Posted by Fluidic Cameron

As far as I know, my friend's death was an accidental overdose. I would never definitively call a death a suicide unless it was blatantly obvious. I knew that my friend took heroin and so it stands to reason that he took a little too much this time (or that the stuff he got was a little stronger than what he was used to).

A life cut short is a life cut short. Some people think that the afterlife is a parallel universe, and that all the people we've lost are carrying on doing something over there. Maybe they are.



There's a lady all over social media that started skating in her 70's, and she's actually half-decent at it now (she can go up and down stairs).

I built my own ramp from wood and screws 2 weeks ago, and it took me another week to build up the nerve to go over it. I only started in my 30's so I was a little late:

https://youtu.be/PiSr2ZN4TA8

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LOL,, I can jump over mountains. should I post up video proof :)
seriously ,, entire fucking mountains are easy for me

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

LOL,, I can jump over mountains. should I post up video proof :)
seriously ,, entire fucking mountains are easy for me

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Focus is a beautiful thing. To achieve absolute clarity in that focus is a gift from God and the heavens - ecstasy & purity at its finest.
https://youtu.be/Kd9_2TRib3k

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Originally Posted by Proximal

Focus is a beautiful thing. To achieve absolute clarity in that focus is a gift from God and the heavens - ecstasy & purity at its finest.
https://youtu.be/Kd9_2TRib3k

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you get it brother ... the idea that I can 'literally' jump over mountains . lol... just an idea and skill and mindset more the anything else really

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Originally Posted by Proximal

LOL DD! Love my vodka. I went to a Russian restaurant and had horseradish infused vodka. I couldn’t stop drinking it that night. We made our own; very easy to do. Damn! If not, give me any vodka cold & I’m GTG.

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Prox,

Come to visit me in E. Europe, buddy...!!!

Where the vodka runs like water...

Truth be told, Eastern European tastes are changing, so I am told. They are drinking more beer, wine and whiskey than before. Maybe because of the mobility they are enjoying in the post-communist / EU era.

You are invited.

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Originally Posted by Fluidic Cameron

I've tried a few different religions, lived in a temple and went to a few meditation centres, churches, mosques. I've read the biographies and autobiographies of the people I most admired hoping that I would somehow touch my own soul up against theirs.

It is ironic that the group that I criticise the most, the Catholics, has spoken the most sense about alcohol, substance abuse and drugs:



There are alcoholic fathers and mothers all over the world who make their children feel loved.

Please read that last paragraph a second time.

Some of these parents read their child a story at bedtime and enroll them every year in swimming lessons. Some of them even teach their child a musical instrument, and again some of them even show their child how to turn wood and weld metal in the garage.

Speaking as a grown man who hasn't seen any member of his family in 5 years, and whose expartner suicided 4 years ago, I can tell you that when I reach back into my memory, I'm not really reaching for resources or anything that I can touch with my hand. To the parents among you who are reading this, I can tell you that your child when they grow up won't be thinking back on remote control cars, iPhones and front-and-back-brake-discs for their bicycle.

It is in our nature to make associations between bad things and bad consequences, and so a lot of us think that alcohol is the devil, or drugs are the devil, or even gambling is the devil (we can talk more about whether this is a behaviour or an emotion).

I don't think that it is fair to criticize anyone for anything other than what they have done. So if a person drinks a fifth of gin every day, and still keeps their household in order, then what can you really accuse them of?

Some people try to sort their life out by cutting out all substances -- alcohol, drugs, whatever -- and this seems to be a good idea for a lot of people. But we must maintain respect for the people who haven't done anything wrong and yet still drink a little and smoke a little.

There is a member of this forum who posts pretty much daily, and who admits to daily drinking out of necessity, and I think most of us here have the greatest respect and admiration for him -- I mean if I lived within 50 miles of him I'd probably call around now and again (and probably make up excuses for why I had to come around).

Don't lose sight of what we're trying to do here in life. Every single one of us boils down to this:



All of us are nothing more than a genetic lottery and life experiences.

I have a steadfastly strong admiration for the people whom I see struggle daily in life, the people who above all make their children feel loved while they simultaneously keep themselves ticking over at great effort.

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I don't see anything wrong with alcohol and substance. To use the term abuse would imply that that thing controlled them. Is in they took it until that thing took their willpower away and turn them into someone else. Alcohol and substance can control you. That's where the term abuse comes in.

I was raised very strict Southern Baptist and taught that alcohol was the devil whatsoever you do you do not drink alcohol or take any drug that makes you feel good or pretty much do anything that feels good or makes you happy. Total abstinence was there answer to prevent someone from losing control possibly. My grandfather is on his way out on my mother's side and he has never tasted alcohol...

I feel sorry for him.
He was very talkative and a people person. He talks way too much for way too long. Kind of like me I suppose.

I feel he would have been much more liked and one hell of an Entertainer if he had drank once in awhile. They used to quote me verses from the Bible saying drinking was wrong and it was so vague in the versus they found. I showed them the verse that said that you should not eat meat around someone that thinks it's wrong and you should not drink around someone that thinks it's wrong lest ye become a stumbling block for your brother. I even dug into Old Testament verses about giving a man in pain a drink and a man in mourning a stronger drink. Jesus turned the water into wine.

But they always came back with the same couple of verses that could vaguely say that drinking was wrong so that's the way it was handed down to us.

I drink quite a lot lately.
I have done worse things.
Yes I have sinned and done bad things that I probably wouldn't have done if I hadn't been drunk or under the influence a certain things.

I know what a good father is and I know what a man is. I hope to pass it on to my son. I hope my daughter can learn from the good things I do and not the mistakes that I make.

I actually completely agree with you FC.
I have met very close families of nothing but smooth-cold alcoholics. Often times I saw them giving each other forgiveness at times I know that my family, my abstinent family, would not have offered.

I can't lay claim to being good father.
I shouldn't have had kids as young as I did, I have always been way too busy trying to create a business or something that made us entirely secure financially and physically.

I wasn't around enough, I didn't feel enough, but I always watched for the right time to step in and let them know how much I love them. It seems like the only time I can find to make things right is when one of them is sad because of how life is.

That is the only part of being a father that I have always done right. I know you are right about being there for them. And my Conquest it seems I have always managed to be there and the sad times as a rock to lean on and comfort them.

In the happy times I am not really there.
That has nothing to do with substance. That's who I am and what I chose above all other things. About 99.9% of the time all I want is for everyone to shut the fuck up and leave me alone so I can figure bids scheduling and work scheduling or figure out how to balance things.

I See normal dads out there pushing a baby stroller and playing with their kids Etc. Younger children annoyed the shit out of me. I think the kid that I'm closest to now and the one that would tell me anything is my girlfriend's oldest at 11 years old. I believe she trusts that she can tell me anything.

Most of the people I keep steady company with and admire in my day today started from scratch and made themselves millionaires with families. I know the truth. The truth is they were never around while their kids were young it wasn't until they got old enough to understand things a little more, that they started taking part. Whether that be from being worn out from chasing dreams or from finally waking up and smelling the Roses about what's important.

What makes a good parent is experience, patience, understanding, and presence. I think I have failed at most of those all my time as a father.

On the substance abuse, well I have a very addictive personality type. There's certain things I won't do or try because I know it will happen. I would become addicted and never stop and wreck everyone lives around me. You cannot be mentally crippled from an addictive substance abuse and be a good parent. You might luck out and be sufficient enough to teach your child to be self-sufficient at an early age and have a lot of bad memories.

Abusing a substance as many would call it and remaining in control of your life entirely... yes I have seen that many times. That is not a substance abuse to me. What a person does or does not take or do with their body is their business as long as they don't fuk up other people's lives in the process. Destroying lives because of the abuse of a substance... that's substance abuse.

I had a pastor tell me one time that he had seen Budweiser destroy a lot of families but he had never seen it repair one...

Well I must say that's a lot of horseshit.
I made a lot of apologies drunk off my ass that I never would have made Sober.

Had I remained sober, those people could have fucked off for life, because there was no way sober me would ever apologize for the bullshit they pulled.

So I apologize, FC.

I just realised that I've slipped into the habit of using the word 'abuse' excessively.

Here is a video of me cutting a piece of bread with a scissors:

https://youtu.be/sfmX67SUycs

Some people would argue that I just abused the scissors; they'll say that a scissors is for cutting paper, and that you're supposed to use a knife to cut bread. As you can see from my video though, the scissors is fine afterward, and the bread is quite well cut. I probably wouldn't use the same scissors to cut up my dog's old kennel rug but this particular scissors is clean. The point I'm trying to make here is that some people really have a field day with the word, 'abuse'.

So really I shouldn't say "substance abuse" -- it really is a counter-intellectual term that only has a place in courtrooms, doctors' offices and the looney bin when they're really trying to give a person a hard time.

There's a point I forgot to make:
There are abstinet tee total parents all over the world who really fuck their kids up from a young age.

Even if we were to play the percentages game and ask "What percentage of non-drinking adults fuck up their kids?", and "What percentage of daily-drinking adults bring up their kids well?", that doesn't change the fact that the alcoholic single mother living 5 doors down from you might be doing a good job raising her 4-year-old son.

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Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS

Prox,

Come to visit me in E. Europe, buddy...!!!

Where the vodka runs like water...

Truth be told, Eastern European tastes are changing, so I am told. They are drinking more beer, wine and whiskey than before. Maybe because of the mobility they are enjoying in the post-communist / EU era.

You are invited.

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If I do, it would be my pleasure and of course that invite extends to you in Los Angeles!

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Originally Posted by Proximal

If I do, it would be my pleasure and of course that invite extends to you in Los Angeles!

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Give me his address when you get there... :wg:

On a side note. Its not drugs that cause crime and devastation, its the prohibition against drugs that causes misery.

If folks let drugs get control of them, it should be a medical issue, just as if they let alcohol get control of them. The fact that our country makes it a legal issue, rather than a medical issue, is the root of so much crime.

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Originally Posted by C27H40O3

On a side note. Its not drugs that cause crime and devastation, its the prohibition against drugs that causes misery.

If folks let drugs get control of them, it should be a medical issue, just as if they let alcohol get control of them. The fact that our country makes it a legal issue, rather than a medical issue, is the root of so much crime.

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Attachment 178960

I completely disagree...
Without warning labels like on this bottle of prescription medication, and without Taxation and regulation by the FDA there is no telling what kind of trouble people can get themselves into by acting outside the law.

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Originally Posted by The road

Attachment 178960

I completely disagree...
Without warning labels like on this bottle of prescription medication, and without Taxation and regulation by the FDA there is no telling what kind of trouble people can get themselves into by acting outside the law.

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I missed you point of satire viewing the first time on my small phone screen. I only saw the straw and lines later on my computer.

Well done.

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Originally Posted by The road

Attachment 178960

I completely disagree...
Without warning labels like on this bottle of prescription medication, and without Taxation and regulation by the FDA there is no telling what kind of trouble people can get themselves into by acting outside the law.

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Nice granite countertops!

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Originally Posted by Proximal

Nice granite countertops!

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Thanks!
They are fake but that just means we aren't afraid to chop things without a cutting board.

Lmao!
High five prox
Attachment 178963

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Originally Posted by The road

Lmao!
High five prox
Attachment 178963

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Back at you road!

Hell yes, broke a record yesterday!

We had our long time friends over yesterday (haven’t had guests over since February). Like my white wine on a hot day, so for lunch we broke out bottles 1, 2, 3, & started #4. My wife said we were civil, coherent and still made good conversation. However after they left at 5. I had finished #4 and kept going. Don’t recall dinner (we had Mexican delivered and apparently I ate a monster burrito filled with everything along with a bag of chips), some of it was on my t-shirt when I awoke this morning, lol. I also don’t recall drinking bottles 5 and 6, nor posting on the forum last night.

Passed out on the couch with my I-pad on my, (so I was told) and don’t remember getting into bed. Up at 7 today without a hang-over.

I was NOT greeted with a smile from my wife. I don’t know why, I didn’t offend anyone, break anything or fall and hurt myself; give me a break already.