funny cause how many people have actually done winny only cycles and flame the **** out of them? probably not many...and me and mbaraso stand together on this....if someone wants a harder and leaner look you don't have to use test. Winny is mild enough on its own and if the focus of the cycle isn't the juice then that is good and should be the case with every cycle. I'd do a winny cycle or a var cycle no problem...you want to know why? Because if i were doing that, then that would not be the focus of my routine...i'd be more interested in caloric intake and cardio and using the winny to just help me out a little. That is just like taking any supplement...you use them to help you along...and for god's sake lozgod lighten up somewhat on the kid. For his goals and size, winny is fine for him so long as he knows the side affects, proper dosage, and has every other aspect inline that should be inline when taking any aas as is it any person's right to do what they want.