Let's clear a few things up about SUSTANON

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 11:36 AM

When it comes to cycling steroids not many things are set in stone. There are often more than one correct way to run any given aas at any given stage in your “career,” whether you are a competing bodybuilder or simply using anabolics to reach the level you wish to personally be at. As you guessed, in this particular instance I’m referring to blended test.

Now I have read The Iron Game’s thread on sustanon and why you shouldn’t use it maybe 50 times by now. And I still agree with him for the most part. It is true that if you wish to maintain the most stable blood levels, which in turn lower sides and maximize the effect of the sust, you must shoot it often enough to utilize the short esters in the gear. ED or EOD is best.

What is untrue is that you simply must run sustanon ED or EOD. On this board alone there must be thousands of guys who have run sustanon only injecting twice per week (which I may remind you was the standard in the not too distant past) and had no problems with sides, or making gains. In fact on average I’d say most first through maybe third time sust users often gain anywhere between 15-25lbs running a dose anywhere near 500mg/week for 10-13 weeks. Most often the only sides you hear them complaining about is bloat and painful injections.

So I started this thread for the new sust users. To let you all know that when you post your sust cycle there will be many people telling you that you have to run sust EOD for it to work. This is just not true. If you like, I’ll start a thread asking how many sust users have cycled using only bi-weekly injections and what their gains and sides were and of the members who are still active I guarantee you there will be many guys who chime in saying they made great gains with little to no sides with bi-weekly injections.

There is more than one way to skin a cat they say. And certainly running steroids are no different. Now, for the more advanced users of blended test, I don’t see why you wouldn’t inject more frequently. Especially as the dose you run gets higher it simply doesn’t make sense to not run sust ED or EOD. I just want the newbies to know that they have more options than frequent injections when it comes to blended test. That’s all I’m trying to say.

**BoL0** · 08-05-2005, 11:41 AM

THX for the help Symatech

Im a newb youre talking about and im thinking of doing a Sust only cycle

of course with some nolva...

**HeavyHitter** · 08-05-2005, 11:56 AM

Good post bro...

?... When people say to take ED or EOD they dont mean 1cc EOD right? So you would take a .5 of cc MWFS. Just makin sure! thanks

**jinos** · 08-05-2005, 11:57 AM

symatech is right. Just finished a 10 week cycle of test sus/deca /dbol . Gainned 22lbs. and all I did was 2 shots per week. I didn't feel anything until the 6th week and that's when I started seeing great progress. My avatar pic is the ending of week 9. I ran nolva and l-dex thru the cycle and about to start pct. I would take sus again but I already got my hands on cyp. So we'll see how that goes.

**goalseeker** · 08-05-2005, 12:50 PM

call me a weiner, but I would shoot eod if it was painless. Dont get me wrong, its not so bad that I aint doin it, but does leave a wound for a few days everytime. Its getting a bit better, with the B-12 and all, but I still feel it hard. Some buddys I have talked to have said theyre bodys just dont go well with the sust. So on theyre second cycle they shoot test e and all is well. However I dont think I should stop the sust in my 8th week and start test e, so I just put up with it till week 14 rolls around. I will gain experience from this first cycle, and know more when the next one comes around..

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Good post bro...

?... When people say to take ED or EOD they dont mean 1cc EOD right? So you would take a .5 of cc MWFS. Just makin sure! thanks

Well it depends on what dose you are running. I know personally at least one guy who has shot 1 amp a day. And there are guys on this bored who I'm sure have run more (but I don't know about the frequency of their injections).

RA · 08-05-2005, 01:01 PM

I ran sus my first cycle. Shot it once a week and anyone that was around me could tell my blood level was all over the place. I have also tried every 3rd day and didnt like it. Ive never shot ed but eod seems to be good. Everyone is different but this is my personal experience.

**Jsik98** · 08-05-2005, 01:18 PM

Cool thread. It really does seem to be a growing trend that people advise first timers to inject ED or EOD. They have good reasoning behind it as such frequent injections keep blood levels more even, yet I've heard of people getting good gains from just 1 amp per week! A friend of mine did 1 amp/250mgs per week and he got pretty damn jacked! Obviously his gained would've been much more pronounced had he done two or even three amps per week, but for a first time user he was more than satisfied with his gains. Now, one thing I'm not quite sure of is when you guys say "less sides" occur when injecting more frequently?? What kind of sides are we talking about? Mood swings? Estrogen conversion?
Also, if someone's using sust for the first time, they'd end up having to inject let's say about 600-750mgs per week if they were to shoot every 2 days! That's a lot of test for a first timer! I imagine that to be the reason why many advise newbies not to take sust but enanthate or cyp instead.

**stocky121** · 08-05-2005, 01:25 PM

again everyone is diffrent

a good friend of mine in the gym shoot's 2cc of sust once per week with no side's and good gain's he wont run any other test

another friend shot twice per week and broke out very bad which he did not on single ester test

off topic but along the same line's i know people who can run deca and tren and have no libido problems

yet i ran deca and d/boll and had serious libido issue's

RA · 08-05-2005, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jsik98

Cool thread. It really does seem to be a growing trend that people advise first timers to inject ED or EOD. They have good reasoning behind it as such frequent injections keep blood levels more even, yet I've heard of people getting good gains from just 1 amp per week! A friend of mine did 1 amp/250mgs per week and he got pretty damn jacked! Obviously his gained would've been much more pronounced had he done two or even three amps per week, but for a first time user he was more than satisfied with his gains. Now, one thing I'm not quite sure of is when you guys say "less sides" occur when injecting more frequently?? What kind of sides are we talking about? Mood swings? Estrogen conversion?
Also, if someone's using sust for the first time, they'd end up having to inject let's say about 600-750mgs per week if they were to shoot every 2 days! That's a lot of test for a first timer! I imagine that to be the reason why many advise newbies not to take sust but enanthate or cyp instead.

Mood swings and zits. I got good gains off the one shot of sus per week but I thought my woman was going to shoot me. You dont shoot 600-750mgs per wk. Keep it at 500.

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 01:28 PM

Oh there's no doubt that everyone is different. I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is that many guys here are telling first time users that they absolutely HAVE to inject sust EOD and that is absolutely NOT true. That's all I'm saying.

**stocky121** · 08-05-2005, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by symatech

Oh there's no doubt that everyone is different. I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is that many guys here are telling first time users that they absolutely HAVE to inject sust EOD and that is absolutely NOT true. That's all I'm saying.

i agree with you bro

you should try it and see what work's for you

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 01:32 PM

you should try it and see what work's for you

amen to that. That is the one and only way you know how aas work for you and the best cycles, pct etc.

RA · 08-05-2005, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by symatech

Oh there's no doubt that everyone is different. I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is that many guys here are telling first time users that they absolutely HAVE to inject sust EOD and that is absolutely NOT true. That's all I'm saying.

\

I do see what you are saying but if we are not concerned about keeping blood levels as stable as possible, why dont we shoot cyp once every 10 days?

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by roidattack

\

I do see what you are saying but if we are not concerned about keeping blood levels as stable as possible, why dont we shoot cyp once every 10 days?

I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make. Even when I run long ester test like enanthate I inject it EOD or so. But I'm rather a big fan of the needle. But newbies come on here wanting to run sust (which for wrong reasons tends to be one of the more popular first timers choice) and guys tell them it's essential to inject ED or EOD. The only point of this thread was to disprove that. We do want blood levels as stable as possible. But you can't argue with success. Of all the guys I've known personally and on this board who've run sust with only 2 injections per week, none of them -before I read your earlier post- had any problems with acne, mood, etc. Only painful injections and lots of growing muscles. That's it.

EDIT: Until the iron game posted that thread. Everybody was pumping 2x per week injections for sust. Why? Because it worked plain and simple.

**bigbadbootydaddy** · 08-05-2005, 01:48 PM

You can ask 30 ppl what they think the best way to take sust is. 10 will say ed, another 10 will say eod and the last 10 will say twice a wk is fine. It all depends on personal preference and how your body reacts. Some won't like pinning ed, twice a wk may make the sides to hard to handle. You can only try it for yourself and find your happy medium. Take the advice from ppl on this or any board for what it is, advice not the gospel.

RA · 08-05-2005, 01:50 PM

Good. Im still going to tell ppl eod for sus. My personal experience backed up by the chart that (dezuhl-spelling?) put up is enough for me to feel comfortable in telling ppl its a superior way to run it.

***G-1000*** · 08-05-2005, 02:04 PM

I disagree with this and feel sust should be shoot ed/eod. It has been proven time and time agene that it is more effective this way. This does not mean that you will not gain form once a week injections. It simply states that you will get better gains with ed/eod. The whole thing behind this game is to keep blood levels even. The better you are at keeping your blood levels even the more efficient the steroid can work. As for the sides affect that all depends on the person’s taking the compound. Some people tend to break out more then other. I know guys that brake out no mater how often they inject. Acne does not solely depend on blood levels. It also has to do with how your body reacts to the compound. So for the new guys that would like to run sust I have to say the following. If you do not plane on running the sust ed/eod don’t buy it. You are not utilizing the compound to its full capabilities. You will be better of with something like test-e or test-c. There is no resin for you to spend the extra money on sust. Also sust tends to be more painful to inject. This is due to the test prop and being mixed esters.

**symatech** · 08-05-2005, 11:19 PM

I disagree. It hasn't been proven time and time again that gains are better. Of all the people I know and all the people on here that have run sust with 2x injections a week, they gain just as much as those who shoot it EOD. Now like I said in post #1, those who are more experienced and using more gear have no reason not to shoot it ED or EOD. But newbies (if they eat right) can gain 20lbs with 2x week injections and more often than not no sides without breaking a sweat (well, figuratively speaking).

There was a time when sust, enan, and cyp were all parroted off to be 2x week. The reason nobody challenged that is because thousands of guys were making the gains they wanted off of 2x week. As for 1x per week I'd not recommend it, but I suppose it's possible.

I agree that if you're going to run sust you should run it EOD or so to maximize the potential. And in that manner I always try and steer newbies away from it towards a single ester test. But all I was trying to clarify, for the newbs that already bought it from their source, is that if they aren't willing to inject EOD, is is more than possible (like I said thousands have done it before them) to inject only 2x per week with more often than not (as far as the guys I know and have read about) with little sides and great gains. that's all.

Allow me to sum up: I've been here awhile (if you count lurking than add many months to my sign up date) and most people I've seen run sust have done it with 2x week injections and barely any of them have complained about their results. And if they did it usually turned out that they bought fake gear or didn't realize they needed to eat and workout. But most were quite happy. Happy with the 20lbs +, happy with little sides (save for pain) and happy enough to do the same cycle again (maybe with some deca or something). ED/EOD is really the best way to go, but there is no law set that has been proven to say so. I think it is more effective, but in the big picture, most people gain about 20lbs on their first cycles. Injecting it EOD would not add 10 more lbs, probably not even 5. So take this for what it's worth. My opinion based on the innumerable amount of men that have used it this way. Someone once said "sust is great for what it was designed for, HRT. Stick to your enanthate "

sorry for the long read. But like I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Originally Posted by gsxxr

You are not utilizing the compound to its full capabilities. You will be better of with something like test-e or test-c. There is no resin for you to spend the extra money on sust.

I agree 100% man. I just don't want you or anybody to think that I am disputing this. It is a fact that if you don't shoot sust quite frequently you are not utilizing it to it's full potential. I just wish to disprove this myth which seems to be going around that it absolutely must be injected that often.

**Furo-master** · 08-05-2005, 11:43 PM

Good point Sym. Let's not get all the new users taking way more than needed to make a quick buck for the other responders...Ooops! Did I say that? Ummm, I GUESS those other guys REALLY know what they are discussing. I'm sure they have ALL reached pro status by now! If you are new to AAS, 500 mgs of sustanon will get you just as far as 1500. You're body can only use so much. Sorry dealers!

**MrBigSh!T** · 08-05-2005, 11:44 PM

Hey guys, Im going to be doing my 1st sustanon /eq/var cycle in a few months. What I want to know is what if I inject sust mon, wed, and fri ? Would this be alright for a first timer? Ive ran regular cyp and enanthate before at 500mgs per week and had no problems or sides.
Give me your opinions guys! Thanks!

**Two4the$$** · 08-06-2005, 03:01 AM

Personally, I hate to sink anyones ship... but I see absolutely NO reason to run a blend when you get get EXACTLY whatever you want per week released out of a frontloaded long ester Test. Instead of playing the lottery with various release rates and buildups and can't frontload issues of sust, just use Cyp, or better yet, the MOST cost effective, enanthate , 250mg/ml, frontloaded to whatever weekly dose you want. It's just the best of ALL aspects, unless of course enanthate causes you excessive bload and you want to use prop, but even then, not sust. I just can't see a logical point. Figure out how many MG you want per day, multiply that by 7, divide by two, and double your first dose. END OF DISCUSSION. I know this is incredibly totalitarian of me, I just feel all but prop and Test-e could be straight WIPED off the market, cause they do nothing but complicate things.

**arnold_of_malta** · 08-06-2005, 03:24 AM

i inject 250mg mon sustinol and another 250 mg sustinol thursday this is my 4th cycle and i always gain alot with sustinol and deca cycle! i like sustinol it make you huge! the only sides i get few acne the abit high blood pressure but notthing bad!!!!!!

**The Baron** · 08-06-2005, 05:13 AM

Symatech is right, of course, in saying that you don't HAVE to shoot sust ED or EOD... but IMHO you won't be getting the best possible benefit from it otherwise. If one insists on shooting E3D or E4D or 2x/week, then one should stick to cyp or enanth, IMHO. If one insists on sticking with sust, one should be resigned to shooting EOD, again, IMHO. Innappropriate dosing will not necessarily ruin a cycle completely, but I think we are usually looking at optimizing every factor as much as possible.

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**freakintraining** · 08-06-2005, 07:12 AM

the first cyucle i ever ran was sus at 500mg 2x weekly gained about 25lbs in 12 weeks....but i think this time around i will try it eod just to see how my body responds

***G-1000*** · 08-06-2005, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by MrBigSh!T

Hey guys, Im going to be doing my 1st sustanon /eq/var cycle in a few months. What I want to know is what if I inject sust mon, wed, and fri ? Would this be alright for a first timer? Ive ran regular cyp and enanthate before at 500mgs per week and had no problems or sides.
Give me your opinions guys! Thanks!

that would work fine.

**goalseeker** · 08-06-2005, 08:02 AM

first cycle..8 weeks in of 500/wk sust. started out with singles of 500 once a week. then almost had to go in a wheelchair..

week4 till now has been Mondays 250 and fridays 250. A bit of d-bol inbetween, and drol right now.. not looking to gain a ton..have gained I think about 12 lbs.. good symmetry and forming well...looking bulker.. no sides....a couple zits.. thats about it.....oh ya, and if the kids start argueing....

LOL.
Im pretty happy with the results from going twice a week... prop seems to wreak havock on my glutes though..
anyways.. kinda like Symatech says... twice a week.. good gains.. little sides...working well for me!!

***G-1000*** · 08-06-2005, 08:08 AM

I think we are all on the same page with this. We feel sust should be shoot ed/eod for best results. But you can still shoot it every 4 days or 2x a week and get good gains. This is the same as test-e or deca being shoot once or twice a week.

**symatech** · 08-06-2005, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by gsxxr

I think we are all on the same page with this. We feel sust should be shoot ed/eod for best results. But you can still shoot it every 4 days or 2x a week and get good gains. This is the same as test-e or deca being shoot once or twice a week.

Agreed

Originally Posted by gsxxr

that would work fine.

and agreed!

***G-1000*** · 08-06-2005, 08:28 AM

Amen

**goalseeker** · 08-06-2005, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by gsxxr

Amen

cheers bro's.. another awesome post!!

**Two4the$$** · 08-07-2005, 07:28 PM

Ha, no one EVER agrees with me. loll

**goalseeker** · 08-07-2005, 08:24 PM

thats not true.. LOL

**G-13** · 08-07-2005, 09:08 PM

Im not trying to hijack your thread but how do you feel about Andropen 275,
I was planning on shooting 200mg every 3-4 days with 20mg of Turanabol for the first 4 weeks, the ester mix is slightly diff that sust. DO you think blood levels will be more manageable with andropen?

SUSTANON 250
testosterone propionate 30 mg;
testosterone phenylpropionate, 60 mg;
testosterone isocaproate, 60mg; and
testosterone decanoate, 100 mg

ANRDOPEN 275
testosterone propionate 45 mg
test phenylpropionate 45 mg
testosterone acetate 20 mg
testosterone decanoate 90 mg
testosterone cypionate 75 mg

**mkv213** · 08-07-2005, 09:18 PM

My first cycle I ran Sust @ 500mg Wk. 2 x 250mg a week. It worked well for me. Here's my before and after pics from 2 years ago. Sust worked great for me 2 times a week!
Sust before and after 1st cycle pics

**mark956101957** · 08-07-2005, 09:39 PM

I just don't see the sense in even using Sust or any blends, test is test why make it so complicated with the different esters and unstable blood levels. I will never use it.

**Two4the$$** · 08-08-2005, 12:19 AM

oh, mark... i couldn't agree more!!!

**pcbboy** · 08-08-2005, 12:39 AM

I have to say i'm a newbie and my first cycle i ran dbol the first 4 weeks and stacked it with sust 250 for 10 weeks. I shot the sust every 10 days (250mg) the first 5 weeks then went to every 7 days. For my first time i was very happy with the gains. I went from 192 to 225 by end of cycle. But i think alot has to do with genes and how your body will react. My father was a muscle head, diesel mechanic all his life. Turning the wrenches day in and day out bulked his *ss up. So I think this issue will be long debated due to so many different body types and different reactions to this aas. But as for me I enjoyed the gains and don't feel it was a waste as I absolutely know that without it i wouldn't have made the gains that i did. Also take into consideration that some guys including me cannot bulk up to fast, big red flag for the drug test in my situation.

**Seattle Junk** · 08-08-2005, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by gsxxr

I disagree with this and feel sust should be shoot ed/eod. It has been proven time and time agene that it is more effective this way. This does not mean that you will not gain form once a week injections. It simply states that you will get better gains with ed/eod. The whole thing behind this game is to keep blood levels even. The better you are at keeping your blood levels even the more efficient the steroid can work. As for the sides affect that all depends on the person’s taking the compound. Some people tend to break out more then other. I know guys that brake out no mater how often they inject. Acne does not solely depend on blood levels. It also has to do with how your body reacts to the compound. So for the new guys that would like to run sust I have to say the following. If you do not plane on running the sust ed/eod don’t buy it. You are not utilizing the compound to its full capabilities. You will be better of with something like test-e or test-c. There is no resin for you to spend the extra money on sust. Also sust tends to be more painful to inject. This is due to the test prop and being mixed esters.

What gixxer said. It would be beneficial to always do orals if they were not so hard on the organs - even blood levels. Less frequency of shots = long esters like test e.

**Two4the$$** · 08-08-2005, 02:53 AM

I notice it's normally the new guys here who're in love with Sust and other blends... I guess what I'm saying is, once you grasp that the ester doesn't change the actual affect of the drug, only duration it is released... you realize... adding a variety of esters only means that you are getting a more complicated release rate to analyze to keep STABLE your active mg count. I mean, the fact is, sustanon actually makes the LEAST sense... because it will make IMMEDIATELY after the injection the HIGHEST value of test in a day, and each day thereafter will be significantly lower than the PERCENTAGE remaining with a single long estered version. Personally, I want the GREATEST consistency day in and day out... relative to the COST. Enanthate always ranks highest in that regard, as cyp is 200mg per ml usually... and it's ester is a slight bit LARGER than the enanthate ester making it even less than the apparent 250/200 ratio... that normaly isn't reflected in it's price tag. Secondly, if stable blood levels you want... due Test-Enanthate daily. If you wanted to do 700mg per week with the MOST stable blood levels... frontload 1.65 grams in 3 injections, then, do 100mg of enanthate per day - this would give you 99mg released per day... VERY evenly. Anyway... that STATIC release rate that is only marginally affected by the daily added depot is going to be the polar opposite of the spikes throughout the day of something like Suspension. And all the ingredients in between that are included in Sust or any other blend are going to fit in somewhere on that continuum, but the enanthate ... again is my preference for best combination of stability AND price. The frequency of injections only serves to smooth-out or spike up your affects... Any questions???