skinny newbie, only 1 type of gear???

[needles]

Let the punishment begin...

I'm 30yrs old. Have been lifting on and off since I was 15yrs old. I'm 6'0 about 175lbs. However, I was a very skinny 165lbs before getting back in shape three months ago. Eating like a horse and using my age old favorite...creatine has helped me gain some, but my gain is mostly water weight. I'm tired of this stuff!!

I want to gain about 20-25lbs of real muscle...not water. I've never cycled before and was planning to cycle 200mg(week 1) and 100mg/wk for the rest of the 10 weeks(I know...I know that's weak)

I did some searching on this great site, including all the "beginner" info and everything relates to 500+mg stacks of 3 types of gear. That's not me. I'm not interested in getting huge or competing. In fact, I want to gain over a period of time so no one suspects anything!

Am I the only one on this site like this??

My friend is basically doing this very same routine for the first time and has had no limp noodle issues and is seeing gains. Will I see gradual gains with this low of a dose or am I wasting my time and money.

Thanks for the feedback.

[SMAN12b]

Let the punishment begin...

I'm 30yrs old. Have been lifting on and off since I was 15yrs old. I'm 6'0 about 175lbs. However, I was a very skinny 165lbs before getting back in shape three months ago. Eating like a horse and using my age old favorite...creatine has helped me gain some, but my gain is mostly water weight. I'm tired of this stuff!!

I want to gain about 20-25lbs of real muscle...not water. I've never cycled before and was planning to cycle 200mg(week 1) and 100mg/wk for the rest of the 10 weeks(I know...I know that's weak) OF WHAT???

I did some searching on this great site, including all the "beginner" info and everything relates to 500+mg stacks of 3 types of gear. That's not me. I'm not interested in getting huge or competing. In fact, I want to gain over a period of time so no one suspects anything!

Am I the only one on this site like this??

My friend is basically doing this very same routine for the first time and has had no limp noodle issues and is seeing gains. Will I see gradual gains with this low of a dose or am I wasting my time and money.

Thanks for the feedback.

You would be better off with 500mgs of Test for 12 weeks those doses are not even HRT levels. If you want slow gains, then you really just need to adjust you eating which I know you say is good, but I bet not correct for muscle growth

[pumpd4lif]

bro what are u going to be taking!
and u can probly gian just as much by upping ur calories
how many calories are u taking in i bet any amouint of money ur barely taking in 3,000 calories everyday which isnt anything.up ur cals(clean of course)take in around 4000 calories every month then tell me ur not gaining weight

[plzr8]

you dont want to get huge but you want to gain 20-25 pounds of muscle and no water in this cycle?

buddy...gaining 20-25 pounds of quality muscle out of a cycle is no easy task and wont come from 100mg of test, i can tell you that much

maybe you would be more interested in HRT programs at such a pathetic dose...

verdict...more research!

[needles]

sorry...deca. I don't mind some water weight gain as long as I'm gaining muscle mass with it...

[SMAN12b]

So , you want to take a Deca only cycle? and you are not worried about libido issues from shutting down all natural testoterone???

Deca at 100mgs, and 200mgs, is only a theraputic dose for joints, because it WILL retain water in you.

Not sure you are ready to be taking AAS . I would still suggest adjusting your diet first!!

[kaberle_15]

You dont need gear. Just because you are 30 years old does not mean you are ready, at 6 feet and 175 lbs you need to diet properly to gain weight. The dosages you want to run will not do much for you, it will not put 20-25 pounds of solid muscle on you if you can't gain weight naturally. That and you shouldn't cycle if you are just back into lifting for a few months after a long break.

Train naturally till you are able to hit at least 200lbs and by then you will have a solid diet and training routine for growth.

[needles]

Guys, I have tried everything natural and within my budget. I have been slender all my life. Eating 3500 calories a day...been there done that.

The research I have done all shows a lot of stacking with 400-500mg/wk doses. Is this necessary with my goals? Is what plzr8 says correct, 20-25lbs over a year not realisitc?

Thanks...

You dont need gear. Just because you are 30 years old does not mean you are ready, at 6 feet and 175 lbs you need to diet properly to gain weight. The dosages you want to run will not do much for you, it will not put 20-25 pounds of solid muscle on you if you can't gain weight naturally. That and you shouldn't cycle if you are just back into lifting for a few months after a long break.

Train naturally till you are able to hit at least 200lbs and by then you will have a solid diet and training routine for growth.

Trust me, in college, my roomate and I lived and breathed weights. I worked out whenever I wanted. I rested, knew my strength and body inside and out. The most I've ever weighed was 182lbs and I was on creatine. I was the strongest I had ever been but still not very big. I am married with 2 kids. I am lucky to workout 2x week. I will never get to my goals natural. Is it wrong to want to speed up the process?

[plzr8]

you never said you would be on for a year....so what your doing is considering going on HRT ?

[builtwithiron]

You won't make those kind of gains with just deca. You have to add test in your cycle. Test should be the foundation of any cycle, even if you are running it alone. If you are worried about water just take nolva throughout the cycle. It will stop water retention. 400 t0 500 mg a week of test and taking in a good amount of calories should do the trick.

[SMAN12b]

Needles, please understand we are trying to help you here.

Steroids will NOT add mass unless you are taking in the "CORRECT" amount of calories for your body. If 3500 calories isn't making you grow, then just adding steroids and expecting to grow is unrealistic. You need to continue to up your calories until you start growing. Maybe for you that is 5000 calories a day. But you have to do it correctly not eat just crap

AAS need FOOD and lots of it in order to work for you.
Your food intake should be much HIGHER when trying to gain mass while on a cycle. and at the doses you are suggesting, you will be doing more harm to your system than any gains.

[SMAN12b]

You are going to end up doing this cycle no matter what we say, So go ahead, just make sure you mark down your results, then come back so we can say we told you so and maybe you will listen to us after you learn the hard way....GOOD LUCK !!

[needles]

Needles, please understand we are trying to help you here.

Steroids will NOT add mass unless you are taking in the "CORRECT" amount of calories for your body. If 3500 calories isn't making you grow, then just adding steroids and expecting to grow is unrealistic. You need to continue to up your calories until you start growing. Maybe for you that is 5000 calories a day. But you have to do it correctly not eat just crap

AAS need FOOD and lots of it in order to work for you.
Your food intake should be much HIGHER when trying to gain mass while on a cycle. and at the doses you are suggesting, you will be doing more harm to your system than any gains.

I appreciate the help guys. This is the info I need. Some of the research I saw regarding HIV patients, other studies as well as other posts led me to believe that AS will put on a certain amount of mass regardless. NOW, if you eat right and exercise right the mass gain will be huge...
Call me wuss, but I want to take the least amount of gear to make some decent gains and protect my body. The little bit of research I've done so far shows deca as having the least side effects. I'm seeing all your avatar pics, I'm not looking to get as big as you bro's.

[Johny-too-small]

I appreciate the help guys. This is the info I need. Some of the research I saw regarding HIV patients, other studies as well as other posts led me to believe that AS will put on a certain amount of mass regardless. NOW, if you eat right and exercise right the mass gain will be huge...
Call me wuss, but I want to take the least amount of gear to make some decent gains and protect my body. The little bit of research I've done so far shows deca as having the least side effects. I'm seeing all your avatar pics, I'm not looking to get as big as you bro's.

500 mg/ew Test for 12 weeks and proper pct. Period. Now go eat.

[fLgAtOr]

I appreciate the help guys. This is the info I need. Some of the research I saw regarding HIV patients, other studies as well as other posts led me to believe that AS will put on a certain amount of mass regardless. NOW, if you eat right and exercise right the mass gain will be huge...
Call me wuss, but I want to take the least amount of gear to make some decent gains and protect my body. The little bit of research I've done so far shows deca as having the least side effects. I'm seeing all your avatar pics, I'm not looking to get as big as you bro's.

You seem to have this predetermined idea of what steroids are and what it takes to "get as big as us bros". (BTW, I'm not big)

But in all reality, you have no idea...because you've never been there.

Take the advice, listen and learn.

Now that you've had your scolding, let me ask you something...Are you done having kids? I'm asking because although your diet is a huge problem here, you may also want to look into HRT.

[SMAN12b]

Deca has one of the worst side effects out there. Its called Deca Dick!!! I would avoid that like the plague unless of coarse you have no need for sex or a hard on ever again........

When researching about HIV and steroids, you need to understand it is used to counter wasting. meaning it just helps to maintain a little muscle since their bodies are constantly breaking everything down. What little they eat is put to the best use, BUT in no way is it going to build muscle for them.

The least amount of gear you can take does NOT mean no side effects. Taking it correctly mean lessening the risk of side effects. All steroids come with side effects.
Here:
Weeks 1-12 Test E @ 250-500 mgs week. 250 being the minimum I would do for muscle growth.

[armbar83]

a few years ago i had your same thought process...

i read on a few sites that deca had the lowest side effects and didnt effect your skin as bad or make you bald. i did some fishing on pubmed and saw doc's administering deca to aids patients. i skimmed this forum and absorbed a few of the positive things said about deca...helps joints, i only had to inject once a week, and thats all i really heard.

i did a low dose deca only cycle 200-300mg/wk with no pct, and i regret having done it. you will gain some water weight and get stronger but you will lose it all and feel like garbage when your done.

LISTEN TO THESE GUYS

they are like 100 steps ahead of you, dont be stubborn about it...
if you dont want to listen, spend a few days really absorbing the information in the forum and what is recommended for beginners, and come to your own conclusions

if i had to do it all over again i would have done a test only cycle, it would have been prop eod for like 8 weeks with some pct.

theres nothing wrong with using low/moderate doses. i do. i use it to repair faster for sports and be a little bigger/faster/stronger. i am not a body builder. that said, you will not keep 20-25 lbs on a lower than hormone replacement dose, and you will still reep the side effects. also, don't be afraid of stacking. i also thought this was too serious for me and only bb's did it. stacking is great because you can get synergy from the two compounds, and imo it ends up being safer....
think about it... do you think its safer to take 600mg/wk of deca or 300 mg/wk test and 300 mg/wk deca. true your still taking in 600 mg/wk of aas but it they are using different pathways and effecting your body comp differently.

like sman said, 300 mg/wk test enth for 12 weeks, that would be a low/moderate dose

id listen to the advice above. i dont mean to sound anything but helpful and i wish id of listened to people when i contemplated aas.

*sorry if i repeat some of the stuff everyone else already said...

[longhorn814]

You need food to grow. If you cant grow at your size just from upping your calories, steroids wont do anything for you. Diet is the most important aspect in this game. Steroids are a route you consider after you have trained for many years naturally and have hit a plateau. You said you just started getting back into shape 3 months ago, so your body should be primed to grow, but you have to know how to feed it. Here's a good read for you

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

You need to keep track of everything you eat. You need to know how many calories a day comes from protein, carbs, and fat. BTW, if you dont know how to eat to grow, then whatever you gain from steroids will all be lost and them some when you come off.

[Huckster]

Forget deca only!

Test Enan 250mg shot on Monday Test Enan 250mg shot on Thursday.

For first cycle!

Maybe throw in 40mg/day of D-Bol for the first 4 weeks.

This with proper diet will get you where you want to be, but you will have some water retention, but you probably gain 20lbs.

I did my first cycle at 33 started at 190lbs. 13% BF. I did the above the DBol and rocketed up to 215lbs. Lost about 12lbs. post cycle, net gain 13lbs and loved it.

Cycle, lift heavy, eat a ton of food, drink lots of water.

Forget Deca, go with test! After you see the results of test, then next cycle throw in deca w/test.

You came to the board with a good question. The guys know what they're talking about here. It really would behuve you to take their advice.

[Havvoc]

50mg primo ED (or masteron)
30mg anvar ED
that should be a good expensive start

[needles]

Seriously guys, this has been very helpful. I have a lot to learn, no doubt about it and I will keep researching. I didn't mean to come across stubborn or that I had already made up my mind. This is serious stuff and I want to do my homework before jumping in.

I'll admit, being a newbie I had many pre-conceived notions. I thought all AS work and that no matter what I ate, I'd grow. Now that many of you have listed some specific gear and dosages, it gives me some search engine material...

How much do you lose between cycles(say 12week cycle)?

[armbar83]

depends on what your taking, how you eat/train, your pct...

if youve never cycled before and you eat clean, train hard, do pct, ect. you could keep 5-15 pounds with a moderate dose of test. youll lose some bloat after the cycle, but you dont want that anyway.

if your goal is 20-25 lbs, try to gain that moderately over the course of a few cycles, stacking different substances with test. your body will thank you.

just remember time on + pct equals time off before next cycle starts. on a 12 week cycle with a long ester like test enanthate that would be 18 weeks AT LEAST before starting another cycle. so if that sounds like too long, opt for shorter esters like test prop.

[fLgAtOr]

Seriously guys, this has been very helpful. I have a lot to learn, no doubt about it and I will keep researching. I didn't mean to come across stubborn or that I had already made up my mind. This is serious stuff and I want to do my homework before jumping in.

I'll admit, being a newbie I had many pre-conceived notions. I thought all AS work and that no matter what I ate, I'd grow. Now that many of you have listed some specific gear and dosages, it gives me some search engine material...
How much do you lose between cycles(say 12week cycle)?

[needles]

Thanks for the advice. I need to look into the pct realm too...

[toyo92]

I was like you 2 yrs ago....172 lbs at 6'1"....eating right and creatine/protein/multivitamin helped me get to 204 in 9 months....my whole unit was astounded that i put that much on...and regardless i was never prob over 15% bf...eat, eat and eat....i had it good, deployed soldiers are more than welcome to as much food as they can

[needles]

I wish I had your genetics bro. I've been fighting this since I was 15. I've done it all. Now that I'm married with 2 kids and a hectic career, I have a greater challenge than when I was in college. Now I know how fat people feel when others tell them to simply "go on a diet". Its not that easy for me...

[Halfcenturian]

Hey bro,

I got 21 years on you. I didn't start gear until I maxed out naturally on all my lifts. Plus the age factors. So I started AAS at 47 years old!

At 30 you should think about your commitment to this lifestyle. Because if you are going to incorporate steroids into your life. It then becomes a lifestyle. You cycle on. cycle off. Even then it takes another 3 to 5 years to get RIPPED. But it can be done well into your 40's, 50's, 60's.

This gig is about 20% training. 40% diet. 20% rest/ recoup. 20% AAS.

Commit to a full year or 2 of serious lifting, diet, rest. You will be amazed at how much you can gain natty (natural). Lift Hard and heavy. There are all kinds of lifting programs on this board.

When you weight 200 pounds and can bench 300. THEN you're ready for steroids, IMHO. But that's what I did... and it worked.

[Babel]

I recommend reading this post: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=278981

In the rate I'm going I'll add ~20-25 lbs in 12 weeks. And guess what? No AAS.

[needles]

Keep up the good work Babel. Not to sound proud, but I've been on creatine on and off for years 10 years. Its good for a quick 5-10lbs...of water weight. It makes you look great and puffy. I'm not knockin' what your doing, and I hope you keep making gains and beat your friend, but 20-25lbs of lean muscle mass is next to impossible in 12 months...naturally. I recommend you read a book: "brawn" by Stuart McRobert. It puts to rest many myths about natural BB. It also changed my whole philosophy about natural BB, I gained SO much knowledge.

[ToTheBuckeT21]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=198114

If I can do it anyone can... I'll tell you what. Start a log of what you eat... Give it just 3 weeks. Take in 4,000 cals or more (Keep it Clean) Just look in the diet forum for some ideas of what to eat. Make sure protien is high and workout as best you can. If in 3 weeks with a big healthy diet and hard work you haven't gained 5lbs i'll back you up 100% on a test only cycle.

but really try!