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  1. #1
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    B6 hinders gains a ton?

    Is it true that using B6 at 200mg/ed during cycle will hinder your gains 35-40%?? I read a study by Anthony Roberts I believe that showed this... I was considering using it in my cycle this May to prevent prolactin because I don't want to hinder my gains with an AI, and heard bad things about bromo/caber in terms of side effects...

    I read ginko biloba lowers prolactin, is this a decent alternative for any of the above options?

  2. #2
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    bump.

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    Schmidty's Avatar
    Schmidty is offline Test Is Best!
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    Iv never heard of that b4. I was recomended by a natonal level competitor to use injectable b vitamines.

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    mister bator is offline Junior Member
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    could you post that article plz ?

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    mick86's Avatar
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    Yes Elexecution could you please post that information. I used vitamin b6 at 200mg per week on my last cycle and have just begun doing it again for my second cycle. I had Deca in both so use it mainly for its supposed ability to help minimise progesterone related issues but also for and estrogen related stuff. It seemed a good choice until I read your post.

  6. #6
    jstraw428's Avatar
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    i always thought B6 was vital to ones body to use protein effectively......i was always told, if you dont get enough B6 in your diet(veggies, supplementation) then your body will not use protein as efficiently.....

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    Dukkit's Avatar
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    i use 800 mg a day on cycle cuz i have some tough prolactin history. but im on cycle now and my gains are normal for what im doing.

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    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Yes I'll try to dig it up he posted it on here...

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    james21's Avatar
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    what bad things have you "heard" about bromo and caber ?

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    Dukkit's Avatar
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    i use caber. caber is my hero!!! ive never had a problem with caber. i use .25mg 2x's a week. so .5 mg a week total.

  11. #11
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Here is his article posted in the thread "Vitamin B6" started by "hankmarvin"



    Basically (although this particular study is rodent data), what we have is evidence that B6 acts on several members of the steroid hormone superfamily. In short, it would seem that if we were to make the argument that B6 is good for progesterone lowering, we would have to make the same argument that it does the same for androgen levels. If you check out SSB, there was a member there who did a cycle with a high dose of B6, to keep his prog. levels in check while on Deca , and the cycle had extremely reduced effectiveness (this has been anecdotally reported to me via interaction with several people via e-mail, which is what made me research B6 and androgen transcription levels).

    Vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by multiple members of the steroid hormone receptor superfamily.

    Allgood VE,
    Cidlowski JA.
    Department of Physiology, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 27599-7545.

    Recent studies have shown that vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by the human glucocorticoid receptor in HeLa S3 cells. We have now examined the possibility that vitamin B6 might similarly influence transcriptional activation by the glucocorticoid receptor in other cell types, as well as gene expression mediated by other members of the steroid hormone receptor superfamily. We show that elevated vitamin B6 concentrations suppress by 40-65% the level of transcription mediated through the endogenous murine L cell glucocorticoid receptor, as well as the human receptor transfected into E8.2 and T47D cells. In contrast, glucocorticoid receptor-mediated transcription was enhanced 60-110% in mild vitamin deficiency. The level of hormone-independent constitutive gene expression was not affected by these same alterations in vitamin B6 concentration. These studies indicated that the transcriptional modulatory effects of the vitamin were neither restricted to specific cell types nor limited to the human form of the glucocorticoid receptor. We next determined if hormone-induced transcription by several other steroid receptors (androgen, progesterone, and estrogen receptors) was analogously affected by alterations in vitamin B6 concentration. Analysis of gene expression mediated through the mouse mammary tumor virus promoter revealed that transcriptional activation of both the androgen and progesterone receptors was reduced by 35-40% under conditions of elevated vitamin B6 and enhanced by 60-90% in deficiency, again under conditions where constitutive expression was unaffected. Using a different promoter, the estrogen-regulated vitellogenin promoter, we found that transcriptional activation of the estrogen receptor was similarly affected. Estrogen-induced gene expression was reduced by 30% under conditions of elevated intracellular vitamin B6 and enhanced by 85% in vitamin deficiency. Thus, vitamin B6 modulates transcriptional activation by multiple classes of steroid hormone receptors. The similarities in vitamin B6 effects on transcription mediated through different promoters, the mouse mammary tumor virus and vitellogenin promoters, suggest that this vitamin may modulate the expression of a diverse array of hormonally responsive genes. These observations together support the hypothesis that vitamin B6 represents a physiological modulator of steroid hormone action.

  12. #12
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by james21 View Post
    what bad things have you "heard" about bromo and caber ?
    Nausea, loss of appetite

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    nausea is only associated with bromo, cabergoline is completely different, and great

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstraw428 View Post
    i always thought B6 was vital to ones body to use protein effectively......i was always told, if you dont get enough B6 in your diet(veggies, supplementation) then your body will not use protein as efficiently.....
    thats what i thaught!

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    MuscleScience's Avatar
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    B-6 is an essiential nutrient for protein metabolism. It is involved in transamination reactions of amino acids. The recommended dosage is 1.3mg per day with a upper UL is 100mg.

    B-6 is involved in over 100 enzymatic reactions in the body BTW.........

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  17. #17
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    B-6 is an essiential nutrient for protein metabolism. It is involved in transamination reactions of amino acids. The recommended dosage is 1.3mg per day with a upper UL is 100mg.

    B-6 is involved in over 100 enzymatic reactions in the body BTW.........
    Well Anthony Roberts believes it lowers the effectiveness of a cycle 35-40%, which would make it a huge turn off obviously

  18. #18
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by james21 View Post
    nausea is only associated with bromo, cabergoline is completely different, and great
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ergoline+bromo


    check that thread out, tons of horrible side effects associated with caber

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    It seems like there is nothing that can be taken to reduce sides while on cycle that doesnt eat into your gains....Before this thread I thought that B6 was a soft option that avoided this problem, now im left confused. I guess less gains is better than lactating tits so the B6 will stay a part of my cycles for the meanwhile.
    Last edited by mick86; 04-16-2008 at 11:44 AM.

  20. #20
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    whoa, yeah ive researched and the later half of those comes up nowhere in research. Also the studies that showed ANY side effects where done at 6mg/DAY that is alot higher than we need it for, you only need .25-.5 e3d which equals .5-1mg a WEEK so you can see why we dont have any of the side effects.

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    MuscleScience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elexecution View Post
    Well Anthony Roberts believes it lowers the effectiveness of a cycle 35-40%, which would make it a huge turn off obviously
    Why are you taking 200mg anyway?

  22. #22
    Schmidty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick86 View Post
    It seems like there is nothing that can be taken to reduce sides while on cycle that doesnt eat into your gains....Before this thread I thought that B6 was a soft option that avoided this problem, now im left confused. I guess less gains is better than lactating tits so the B6 will stay apart of my cycles for the meanwhile.
    Thats why i say fvck it deal w/the temp sides and get all the results while on...

  23. #23
    mick86's Avatar
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    Does anyone think that lowering the dose of B6 to say 100mg per day would eat into your gains less while still providing some protection?

  24. #24
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuscleScience View Post
    Why are you taking 200mg anyway?
    I'm not, I was going to take it in my upcoming cycle to lower prolactin. But AR really has stressed it a lot not to take it. I read ginko biloba lowers it, do you know anything about that?

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    MuscleScience's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elexecution View Post
    I'm not, I was going to take it in my upcoming cycle to lower prolactin. But AR really has stressed it a lot not to take it. I read ginko biloba lowers it, do you know anything about that?
    Nope, sorry.

  26. #26
    mick86's Avatar
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    So is the verdict is out, does B6 unequivocally diminishes gains while on any anabolic cycle? If so is there any good substitutes for B6 that have less of a negative effect?

    (Unfortunately I stocked up so have at least 6 bottles of B6 lying round)
    Last edited by mick86; 04-24-2008 at 07:29 AM.

  27. #27
    mister bator is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elexecution View Post
    Well Anthony Roberts believes it lowers the effectiveness of a cycle 35-40%, which would make it a huge turn off obviously
    A lot of people cycle with deca /tren and a lot of people use B6 to reduce the prolactin levels. So wouldn't people allready have noticed it lowers gains by 35-40%. It's quite a difference..

  28. #28
    Elexecution is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister bator View Post
    A lot of people cycle with deca/tren and a lot of people use B6 to reduce the prolactin levels. So wouldn't people allready have noticed it lowers gains by 35-40%. It's quite a difference..
    He gave an example of someone running Deca and taking a high dose of B6 and gains were substantially less than without it

  29. #29
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  30. #30
    Merc.. is offline Steroidpedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elexecution View Post
    I'm not, I was going to take it in my upcoming cycle to lower prolactin. But AR really has stressed it a lot not to take it. I read ginko biloba lowers it, do you know anything about that?
    Yea it does... I posted a study about in my blog awhile back...


    Check this study out..... Very interesting ... Ginkgo biloba lowers prolactin ...


    Horm Behav. 2007 Oct 10; [Epub ahead of print] LinksGinkgo biloba extract enhances male copulatory behavior and reduces serumprolactin levels in rats. Yeh KY, Pu HF, Kaphle K, Lin SF, Wu LS, Lin JH, Tsai YF.Department of Physiology, College of Medicine, National Taiwan University,Taipei, Taiwan, ROC.The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of Ginkgo bilobaextract (EGb 761) on male copulatory behavior in rats. EGb 761 (1 mg/ml)induced significant production of testosterone (T) in rat Leydig cells invitro. Its effects on sexual behavior were then tested in Long-Evans malerats after 7, 14, 21, or 28 days of oral gavage of vehicle (distilledwater) or EGb 761 at doses of 10, 50, or 100 mg/kg. Administration of 50mg/kg of EGb 761 for 28 days and of 100 mg/kg for 14 or 21 dayssignificantly increased intromission frequency compared to controls on thesame day. An increase in ejaculation frequency was seen after treatmentwith 50 mg/kg of EGb 761 for 14, 21, or 28 days when compared to eitherthe control group on the same day or the same group on day 0. A reductionin ejaculation latency was only seen after administration of 50 mg/kg ofEGb 761 for 14 days compared to the vehicle-treated group. After treatmentfor 28 days, no significant difference was seen in mount latency,intromission latency, serum T levels, reproductive organ weight, spermnumber, or levels of the metabolite of dopamine, 3,4-dihydroxyphenylaceticacid in the brain with any dose of EGb 761, but significantly reducedserum prolactin levels and increased dopamine levels in the medialpreoptic area and arcuate nucleus were seen at the dose of 50 mg/kg. Thesefindings show that EGb 761 (especially at the dose of 50 mg/kg) enhancesthe copulatory behavior of male rats and suggest that the dopaminergicsystem, which regulates prolactin secretion, may be involved in thefacilitatory effect of EGb 761.PMID: 18001735 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]


    http://forums.steroid.com/blog.php?b=30&page=5



    Merc.

  31. #31
    Andro9's Avatar
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    so how much b-6 can you take without diminishing returns? or just stay away completely?
    Last edited by Andro9; 04-21-2008 at 12:08 AM.

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    bizzity bump lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro9 View Post
    so how much b-6 can you take without diminishing returns? or just stay away completely?
    Thats what I was wondering too. Can any one answer this?

  34. #34
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    correct me if i'm wrong but i saw nothing in that article about a low to moderate dose of b6. the one article posted related to high doses of B6 and diminished gains..

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicstick2003 View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong but i saw nothing in that article about a low to moderate dose of b6. the one article posted related to high doses of B6 and diminished gains..
    True there is nothing in that article about a low to moderate dose of b6 which is exactly why we are asking what would happen if you were to take such a dose.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick86 View Post
    True there is nothing in that article about a low to moderate dose of b6 which is exactly why we are asking what would happen if you were to take such a dose.
    my bad, i thought people were using that article as a reason to not use B6.. i myself was confused since it only had high doses and not anything in the lower range which could be beneficial in combating prolactin. sorry for the confusion

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicstick2003 View Post
    my bad, i thought people were using that article as a reason to not use B6.. i myself was confused since it only had high doses and not anything in the lower range which could be beneficial in combating prolactin. sorry for the confusion
    All good.

    Guess no one has any more to say on the issue..?

  38. #38
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    well, i guess we have to wait for one of the few people who can answer to this lol

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    Big Papi JR. is offline Junior Member
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