Havoc questions/ personal help

[Gmaq90]

Okay so first let me say that im like 99% ignorant when it comes to anything steroid. My personal views are that they are for the lazy teenagers who are trying to get big and get some ass easily. The sad part is that it works and like most males dont care if a female has fake boobs, most females also dont care if a guy is on the juice.

However, right now im 21 and ill be 22 in two months. Im 6'6 185lbs with a pretty athletic build. I worked out really hard and ate several meals a day my freshman year of college and I saw big increases in strength (I went from working out with around 150 to around 200). However, I only gained maybe five pounds I assumed that it was largely because I just got older (at the time I was 20 and weighed 172). So discouraged, I quit working out because I felt the gains where not worth working out so hard every day for an entire year and spending around $50 a day on quality food.

Moving on.. about 3 weeks ago I got on the scale for the first time in about a year to see that my weight was 185. I had gained 13 pounds and obviously this got me very excited. So next thing ya know im in GNC buying some Mass XXX, working out 3 times a week, and trying to get to my goal again (which is 200lbs). So far ive been working out on a steady routine with my protien for about 2 weeks and its kinda hard to tell if im gaining yet or not. Ill have to give it a little bit longer.

Now heres the part you guys can prob. help me with. A friend of mine has been taking havoc and I have witnessed him gain around 15lbs with corresponding strength gains and he has never taken anything else before. He told me about it because I had started talking about trying to gain weight and working out again. He looks great, he has no acne, no man boobs, etc. He tells me its legal and it really works. So im like hell yea get me that stuff its legal?!?! Sweet!

So I have spent the past 2 days (around 10 hours total) looking up stuff on this particular steroid but what ive found is that besides it being legal its not a whole lot different from any other steroid. My friend has little knowledge about it because I went to him and was like, "man this stuff isnt good for you, are you taking a pct?" and he was like "no, do I need to?" I of course told him that I dont know any particular ones and I dont have a suggestion but im pretty sure that this stuff requires a pct.

So the problem here is that I now have about 5 of my friends taking this stuff, fooled by the legality of it. I am interested in doing it myself.... my workout is simple

3x8 bench
3x8 curls
3x8 flys
6 sets different kinds of situps
Every other day

Im not looking for a body builder type body and I dont even find muscles like that attractive. I dont care about my strength, I just want a nice thicker body, and I have already seen that a single cycle of this stuff can do that.

So my current plan is to finish off this jug of protein, continue working out, and eating a little more and see where im at in about 6 more weeks... I dont really want to take this stuff and im willing to work for it but its so tempting to just go the easy route to my goal. Id also like to say that I work 5 days a week and I make really good money so that is not a concern at all.

What is your advice? Thoughts? Concerns? Suggestions?

[jstraw428]

Do you ever train your legs......or just your chest, biceps, and abs.......

[Gmaq90]

Right now I dont do anything in my workout to train my legs. I play a decent amount of basketball and thats about it. I could easily add in some squats or something though if you think that would help me with my goal.

When I was working out previously I worked out every day and switched between leg and arm workouts.

[jstraw428]

Of course training legs will help you reach your goals.........I look at it this way, if you want to have a big upper body, you must have a big lower body to carry it........why would you want some toothpicks for legs......Squat brotha....

[PT]

what is havoc? is it some junk supplement?

[Gmaq90]

Heres two pictures of me... the one with my shirt off I actually look a little more cut than I prob. am currently. Regardless these should give you guys a good idea of my physical condition I hope.

[Gmaq90]

what is havoc? is it some junk supplement?

Im not sure exactly... I believe its a full fledge steroid, but IDK how its legal if thats the case. Like I said my knowledge on it is limited to 10 hours of study.

I know it works though... its not a basic run of the mill supplement like the stuff at GNC.

[Gmaq90]

Of course training legs will help you reach your goals.........I look at it this way, if you want to have a big upper body, you must have a big lower body to carry it........why would you want some toothpicks for legs......Squat brotha....

Haha your right... ill add in 3x8 squats into that same workout.

I think I have a pretty basic goal though. I simply want a healthy looking body with an extra 15lbs. I wouldnt mind a little chubbyness mixed with a little muscle.

[jstraw428]

In those pictures, you dont look athletic or cut....you jst look skinny......I think you can reach your goals by simply eating more, and working out a bit harder.....Your workout routine is piss poor to say the least......

and what is with the drinking, you will never reach your goals if you keep thatup too much.....

[Gmaq90]

In those pictures, you dont look athletic or cut....you jst look skinny......I think you can reach your goals by simply eating more, and working out a bit harder.....Your workout routine is piss poor to say the least......

and what is with the drinking, you will never reach your goals if you keep thatup too much.....

Hmm im not trying to be a body builder man. I am at the lighter end of the weight healty for my height. I have muscles and by no means am out of shape or weak. I think you may just be confusing the fact that a lot of people on here are very big and have time to work out an hour and a half to two hours a day.

I am an average 21 year old, I work 5 days a week, I like to go out on the weekends with friends. Dont compare me to the body builders or even the average roid user on these forums. I dont have any intentions of looking like that.

[jstraw428]

I am not judging you on those standards, i am judging from the fact, that you look very emaciated.......You can see the bones in your chest and arms.....I am not trying to put you down, just my honest opinion......I think if you reevaluate your diet, and train a bit harder, you can reach your goals.....

[PT]

there is no doubt that your skinny. like stated above, you just need to learn to eat and stick with the gym. if you quit everytime you get frustrated your going to be skinny forever.

[Gmaq90]

Your right... I could be a lot skinnier though. As a matter of fact I was. I really have a small appetite sometimes and Im just one of those people who has always had trouble gaining weight. I think with getting a little older though and slowing down ive been able to put on a little bit of weight.

As for this Havoc... if I did decide to take it, is it even a good steroid to take? If I did take anything I would only plan on a single cycle and probably never touching the stuff again. I had read that testosterone is good for beginners? However, it being oral, mild, and legal are all things that draw me to it.

I already intend on working on my diet and exercise for the next few months. Im thinking that with my increase in age I will have better results this time. But I would still like your thoughts on this stuff...

[PT]

its not a steroid bro, its a supplement

[jstraw428]

Havoc is not a real steroid.....hence it is legal........You dont even need to think about steroids until you get your diet in order, and start training a lot harder.....

[jstraw428]

Dammit PT you beat me to the punch.....

[Gmaq90]

there is no doubt that your skinny. like stated above, you just need to learn to eat and stick with the gym. if you quit everytime you get frustrated your going to be skinny forever.

lol we arent talking about I got a gym membership and quit a week later when I saw no results. I worked out and ate 6 meals for over a year and saw very minimal results. And my workout didnt look anything like my current one. I worked out legs, arms, back, etc. A full fledged workout...

Like I said over that year my bench went up a full 50 pounds. But I didnt see increases in size even though I was eating 4000-5000 calories a day.

Hell you'd change up too if you didnt get results you liked in a year, with hours of work put into it daily...

[RoidBoid]

dude i was like u, ive gained jst over 2 stone in 9 months from changing my diet!!! seriously its about what you eat, get your diet and training right then hit the gear, you got plenty of time, no sweat!

[PT]

javascriptopupWindow('http://www.bulknutrition.com/popup_image.php?pID=6417')
i wouldnt use it

[jstraw428]

Colorful Label.......

[Gmaq90]

Well thats great news if its okay to take... I have personally witnessed people gain 15lbs in 8 weeks on it with ease and gain 20lbs on bench. Seems to have better results than some steroids. If the sides arent there then im getting on it now...

So its legal, it works, its not a steroid, sounds like a freakin miracle...

[jstraw428]

Its not a miracle, its a bunch of crap in a bottle.......a big waste of money.....money that could be spent on food......

[PT]

15lbs of water?

[PT]

Its not a miracle, its a bunch of crap in a bottle.......a big waste of money.....money that could be spent on food......

exactly. spend the money on food, have better gains and keep your gains

[Dog-Slime]

Havoc is a steroid im pretty sure if not then it converts to one but i think it is in fact a steroid. So please guys dont give advice on stuff you don't know what it is. Its a little harsher than people make it out to be, atleast for me it was. It shut me down pretty good and caused shedding. I didn't find it to be very good for mass tho. I personally only put on maybe 5-6lbs on a cycle of it but I did get very good strength gains and libido increase. H-drol was much better in ALL regards and is also legal.

However, you will not keep the gains you make unless you learn how to eat properly. You are far too skinny to need AAS, you really need to check out the diet forum and the training forum. Horrible workout routine and you will prob look really weird if you run this cycle and only train chest and biceps...

[one8nine]

3x8 bench
3x8 curls
3x8 flys
6 sets different kinds of situps
Every other day

this is the worst workout Ive ever seen. not trying to insult, trying to make clear it needs a looottt of work
you should be training something like this

4-6 exercises in each body part, 3-6 sets each exercise
Monday-chest
Tuesday-legs
Wednesday-back
Thursday-shoulders
Friday-arms

workout
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

also click this link for a bulking diet

diet
http://forums.steroid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6

[one8nine]

oh and prohormones are 10x worse for you with 1/4 of the result than some real sauce. dont take that crap.

[PT]

Havoc is a steroid im pretty sure if not then it converts to one but i think it is in fact a steroid. So please guys dont give advice on stuff you don't know what it is. Its a little harsher than people make it out to be, atleast for me it was. It shut me down pretty good and caused shedding. I didn't find it to be very good for mass tho. I personally only put on maybe 5-6lbs on a cycle of it but I did get very good strength gains and libido increase. H-drol was much better in ALL regards and is also legal.

However, you will not keep the gains you make unless you learn how to eat properly. You are far too skinny to need AAS, you really need to check out the diet forum and the training forum. Horrible workout routine and you will prob look really weird if you run this cycle and only train chest and biceps...

it is NOT a steroid so dont start telling people it is. there is a difference between a prohormone and a steroid

[one8nine]

Hmm im not trying to be a body builder man. I am at the lighter end of the weight healty for my height. I have muscles and by no means am out of shape or weak. I think you may just be confusing the fact that a lot of people on here are very big and have time to work out an hour and a half to two hours a day.

I am an average 21 year old, I work 5 days a week, I like to go out on the weekends with friends. Dont compare me to the body builders or even the average roid user on these forums. I dont have any intentions of looking like that.

then you dont need steroids at all, period.
if you cant put in the time in the gym, and you still wanna drink and stuff thats your choice but this shit wont work without dedication. you might gain 15 pounds but i know for a fact you wont keep a pound of it if you cant eat/work/sleep right.

[one8nine]

Your right... I could be a lot skinnier though. As a matter of fact I was. I really have a small appetite sometimes and Im just one of those people who has always had trouble gaining weight. I think with getting a little older though and slowing down ive been able to put on a little bit of weight.

As for this Havoc... if I did decide to take it, is it even a good steroid to take? If I did take anything I would only plan on a single cycle and probably never touching the stuff again. I had read that testosterone is good for beginners? However, it being oral, mild, and legal are all things that draw me to it.

I already intend on working on my diet and exercise for the next few months. Im thinking that with my increase in age I will have better results this time. But I would still like your thoughts on this stuff...

mild??? no.
prohormones TEAR YOU UP, not healthy by any means

[one8nine]

lol we arent talking about I got a gym membership and quit a week later when I saw no results. I worked out and ate 6 meals for over a year and saw very minimal results. And my workout didnt look anything like my current one. I worked out legs, arms, back, etc. A full fledged workout...

Like I said over that year my bench went up a full 50 pounds. But I didnt see increases in size even though I was eating 4000-5000 calories a day.

Hell you'd change up too if you didnt get results you liked in a year, with hours of work put into it daily...

your workout was uneducated, terrible
not sure about your diet but i think if you were eating the right things you would have gained.
calories eaten - calories used = calories stored
and yeah i would have changed, not given up

[one8nine]

Well thats great news if its okay to take... I have personally witnessed people gain 15lbs in 8 weeks on it with ease and gain 20lbs on bench. Seems to have better results than some steroids. If the sides arent there then im getting on it now...

So its legal, it works, its not a steroid, sounds like a freakin miracle...

wow 15 pounds? 20 pounds on the bench? theyre lucky if one of those pounds is muscle.

[Gmaq90]

Just a few things...

1. I dont believe my workout is the problem. As I have already said I tried for over a year with 6 meals a day and a very in depth workout every day of the week. I saw very large increases in strength but not in mass. This was after 4years of working out in highschool with both basketball and football. My weight training and diet experience should not be in question.

I look much better now a year later after not working out and eating. Ive always eatin somewhat healthy... minimal fastfoods. I cook for myself and I eat out a lot. I think a workout such as this 3 times a week will help me keep a healthy looking physique and hopefully I can add the 15lbs.

2. I hope you guys can come to some sort of consensus on this stuff. I realize that im not the expert here on diet, exercise, and steroids, and I have full intentions of taking what is said here into account. However its kinda hard to take advice when im not even sure who to listen to.

The classification of it being a steroid is really irrelevant to me... does is have the same side affects? Does it need a PCT? Is it stupid for someone like me to get on that stuff?

Look at it from my angle for a second. I have personally seen 1 person gain 15lbs from it. Hes off now using no PCT and the loss has yet to be seen... It works, its legal, it hasnt affected him in any way, and I can simply say im taking a supplement thats legal instead of a steroid...

[one8nine]

i guess you know much more about workout than us, i dont know how all these 5'10"-6'3" guys got to be 200-250?

steroids are SAFER and more effective than prohormones. it needs pct.

yes its very stupid for anyone to use prohormones, especially someone that doesnt know how to work out.

[Gmaq90]

i guess you know much more about workout than us, i dont know how all these 5'10"-6'3" guys got to be 200-250?

steroids are SAFER and more effective than prohormones. it needs pct.

yes its very stupid for anyone to use prohormones, especially someone that doesnt know how to work out.

So if this is a prohormone then why is it legal? As far I know prohormones were banned sometime in like 2005?

I understand the emphasis you guys like to put on diet and exercise... I do. But im telling you that I did work out, and I did keep a good diet and I did get stronger but I failed to gain a lot of weight. Do any of you guys remember eating right and working out daily for years with high school football and failing to put on the weight you wanted?

Now I work 5 days a week, im not in weight training class and I dont have time to spend over and hour a day in a weight room. My diet is still fairly healthy.

I eat something every morning but most mornings its a cereal/protein bar and bottled water because im in a hurry. Some mornings I make eggs and toast. For lunch I eat out at a restaurant every day and eat full meals. Pasta, Steak, Potatoes, good meals. Dinner I eat differently daily... Sometimes its fast food but even then its normally a sub place, Sandwiches, Backyard Burger, etc. If not then I eat at a restaurant similiar to my lunch. Late Night I normally eat something I make at home like Sandwiches, Grilled Chicken, Eggs, etc.

Normally sometime between after dinner and my late night meal I have 1/2 a protein shake.

Im not trying to say I know more than you do about diet and excercise and as a matter of fact I said the opposite. Im simply telling you guys my own thoughts about my body. I have very little trouble getting stonger and increasing muscle and my body tone. I have a ton of trouble gaining weight.

[one8nine]

because they didnt ban every one yet, theyre on the market for like 6 months then get banned

you dont workout right, i have doubts about your diet, so if you gain anything it will be water and youll lose it all. if you dont believe me, just do it. if you do please post how you regret it afterwards so i can save the link and add it to my list of things to give people like this one:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=355198

so you eat 3 times a day? half of a shake? theres your problem

steroids arent magic, without building blocks youll have nothing. obviously we here on the board love them, but the proper foods and workouts are needed.

[peachfuzz]

it is NOT a steroid so dont start telling people it is. there is a difference between a prohormone and a steroid

with all do respect it is a steroid. it is the methylated form of epitiostanol.

*** CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION ***

RTECS NUMBER : KC1035000
CHEMICAL NAME : 2-alpha,3-alpha-Epithio-5-alpha-androstan-17-beta-olCAS REGISTRY NUMBER : 2363-58-8
LAST UPDATED : 199706
DATA ITEMS CITED : 18
MOLECULAR FORMULA : C19-H30-O-S
MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 306.55
COMPOUND DESCRIPTOR : Reproductive Effector
SYNONYMS/TRADE NAMES :
* 2,3-Epithioandrostan-17-ol
* Epitiostanol
* 10275-S
* Thiodrol

there is also a write up in anabolics 2007. 1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. (Vida)

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summ...gi?sid=7848328

also included is a link regarding epitiostanol's effectiveness for treatment of gynecomastia...
http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...bstract/3/2/99

i hate to see people so quick to say something is not a steroid when a simple search will prove the opposite.

Superdrol = double methylated masteron(steroid)
Phera-plex = DMT (steroid)
Halodrol = analog of turnibol (steroid)
...to name a few

[PT]

with all do respect it is a steroid. it is the methylated form of epitiostanol.

*** CHEMICAL IDENTIFICATION ***

RTECS NUMBER : KC1035000
CHEMICAL NAME : 2-alpha,3-alpha-Epithio-5-alpha-androstan-17-beta-olCAS REGISTRY NUMBER : 2363-58-8
LAST UPDATED : 199706
DATA ITEMS CITED : 18
MOLECULAR FORMULA : C19-H30-O-S
MOLECULAR WEIGHT : 306.55
COMPOUND DESCRIPTOR : Reproductive Effector
SYNONYMS/TRADE NAMES :
* 2,3-Epithioandrostan-17-ol
* Epitiostanol
* 10275-S
* Thiodrol

there is also a write up in anabolics 2007. 1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as plain methyl-test. (Vida)

http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summ...gi?sid=7848328

also included is a link regarding epitiostanol's effectiveness for treatment of gynecomastia...
http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...bstract/3/2/99

i hate to see people so quick to say something is not a steroid when a simple search will prove the opposite.

Superdrol = double methylated masteron(steroid)
Phera-plex = DMT (steroid)
Halodrol = analog of turnibol (steroid)
...to name a few

it is a prohormone not a steroid. go under yahoo and type in, "havoc supplement" into your search engine and read. you can not buy steroids online from a usa company.

[peachfuzz]

it is a prohormone not a steroid. go under yahoo and type in, "havoc supplement" into your search engine and read. you can not buy steroids online from a usa company.

did you read past the first line of my post?

[PT]

Any of numerous naturally occurring or synthetic fat-soluble organic compounds having as a basis 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings and including the sterols and bile acids, adrenal and sex hormones, certain natural drugs such as digitalis compounds, and the precursors of certain vitamins. maybe by defination it is a steroid but so is vitamin-D and just like havoc most of us wont say, "im running a vitamine-D cycle". havoc is just like the many other prohormones on the market today. maybe it works for you and if it does then great but once you have cycled like most of us those weaker drugs are useless and nothing more then a waste of money. the results are weak but the sides are the same if not worse when compared to actual steroids such as test