Nolvadex vs. Clomid?

[lcstriker07]

First Post here. Hope I'm asking some decent questions.

This is going to be my first cycle of AAS and I could use a little help regarding PCT and some products suggested to run throughout the cycle.

Here it is

weeks-product-dose

1 - 10 Test Enth 500mg
7 - 12 Winny 50mg ED
1 - 15 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 - 15 L-Dex .25mg ED

Pct WK 16-18
Day 1 300mg clomid & 20 mg Nolvadex & .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid & 20 mg Nolvadex & .25mg L-dex

I'm 5'9/ 210lbs/ 17% body fat/ age 27/ 4 years of training and diet

What % bodyfat do you think I should drop to before beginning my first cycle or is 17% enough?

I've done a lot of research and found a lot of contradicting info regarding nolva and clomid. Some articles say clomid is somewhat a thing of the past and nolvadex can prevent gyno and boost test production just as well at a smaller dosage. But most Newbie cycles highly recomend clomid at the dosage I listed for my PCT.

I just read several articles regarding Nolvadex's tendancy to limit gains while on cycle and many members on this site claim you should never take nolva while cycling test. Yet again most Newbie Cycles on this site have it listed at my exact dosage throughout the cycle.

Also I was planning to keep the dosages of Nolva and L-dex low and upping them if I felt signs of gyno coming on. Are my dosages low or high enough for that purpose?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[PT]

more people perfer nolva now because there are less sides. i would only run a light l-dex dose during the cycle instead of running both

[lcstriker07]

and for the Post Cyle?

[one8nine]

editing. im going to type a more complete response.

[one8nine]

1 - 10 Test Enth 500mg
7 - 12 Winny 50mg ED
1 - 15 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 - 15 L-Dex .25mg ED

nolvadex is terrible to take on cycle.
the ldex on cycle is good but for pct thats too weak
nolvadex decreases the effectiveness of ldex, so its not ideal for pct
in pct nolva should be 20mg-40mg
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=354229

Pct WK 16-18
Day 1 300mg clomid & 20 mg Nolvadex & .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid & 20 mg Nolvadex & .25mg L-dex

pct starts week 13, 2 weeks after final test e shot. not week 16...
clomid dose it too high
pct is too short
click this link for a more complete pct please
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?p=4111013

I'm 5'9/ 210lbs/ 17% body fat/ age 27/ 4 years of training and diet

What % bodyfat do you think I should drop to before beginning my first cycle or is 17% enough?

aromatization is testosterone converting into estrogen
aromatization occurs in fat cells
12% is the highest you should be imo, anything else is dangerous

I've done a lot of research and found a lot of contradicting info regarding nolva and clomid. Some articles say clomid is somewhat a thing of the past and nolvadex can prevent gyno and boost test production just as well at a smaller dosage. But most Newbie cycles highly recommend clomid at the dosage I listed for my PCT.

I just read several articles regarding Nolvadex's tendancy to limit gains while on cycle and many members on this site claim you should never take nolva while cycling test. Yet again most Newbie Cycles on this site have it listed at my exact dosage throughout the cycle.

Also I was planning to keep the dosages of Nolva and L-dex low and upping them if I felt signs of gyno coming on. Are my dosages low or high enough for that purpose?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

the newbie cycles are outdated and mostly written by an idiot named AR

[lcstriker07]

Corrections in order.

Dropping Nolvadex on cycle! Yikes!

PCT should have been listed as week 13 through 15 starting day after final Winny dose. Not sure what happened there.

In your PCT thread you suggested you'd rather run just nolvadex and drop clomid, but then said nolvadex would reduce the effectiveness of my L-dex, so I think I should drop the L-dex, pick up letro and run the nolva to counter letro sides. And Since i'm not cycling with nolva, is it alright if I still cycle with L-dex?

I was considering running my PCT out 1 week longer with just the same nolvadex dose (20mg) and whatever else I end up choosing and that puts me at just over 7 weeks. Isn't that overkill? You said yourself 6 was plenty?

12% sounds low but when I thought about it, if I up my cardio and push my diet a little harder 10lbs would prolly do the deed.

[lcstriker07]

By the way, thanks a lot for all the links! You're a life saver bro.

[PT]

for post cycle i like
12-16 nolva 20mgs a day
12-16 armidex .5mgs ed or 20mgs aromasin ed
if its a heavy cycle with deca then i try to throw some hcg in at the end as well

[lcstriker07]

I talked to a guy at the gym who said he had always run a post cycle of Clen with creatine? Haven't found much research that suggests anything like this. Am I missing something or was I talking to a moron?

[lcstriker07]

for post cycle i like
12-16 nolva 20mgs a day
12-16 armidex .5mgs ed or 20mgs aromasin ed
if its a heavy cycle with deca then i try to throw some hcg in at the end as well

I was thinking something similair except using L-dex, until I found that Nolva and L-dex counter each other's productivity. Any input on that? And If I just run Letro with Nolva It would be more ideal don't you think?

[redz]

I talked to a guy at the gym who said he had always run a post cycle of Clen with creatine? Haven't found much research that suggests anything like this. Am I missing something or was I talking to a moron?

That is a retarded pct and would do nothing to get your natural test production back to normal.

[one8nine]

I was thinking something similair except using L-dex, until I found that Nolva and L-dex counter each other's productivity. Any input on that? And If I just run Letro with Nolva It would be more ideal don't you think?

l-dex is liquid arimidex
letro can cause an estrogen rebound, not good for pct

[lcstriker07]

Yeah, I know, one is no more effective than the other is it? I just have a lot easier access to L-dex.

And I saw tha Letro causes an estrogen rebound when you come off, That's why I elected to run the Nolva out slightly longer to counter and keep my sex drive. I think I saw that in the link you recommended. Does it sound off base?

[lcstriker07]

That is a retarded pct and would do nothing to get your natural test production back to normal.

That's what I thought, not to mention both products are intended for exactly opposite of the others use, so I thought I had to be missing something.

[one8nine]

Yeah, I know, one is no more effective than the other is it? I just have a lot easier access to L-dex.

And I saw tha Letro causes an estrogen rebound when you come off, That's why I elected to run the Nolva out slightly longer to counter and keep my sex drive. I think I saw that in the link you recommended. Does it sound off base?

its okay but you have better options

[lcstriker07]

Found this quote in a link in one of your threads for PCT.

"Things one needs to note while using arimidex is that the benefits of estrogen become non-existent as well. First of all that means gains can be drastically reduced. They will be leaner and more qualitative, but they will nonetheless be seriously reduced. A second problem is that estrogen seems to have a positive effect on cholesterol levels. Since estrogen is reduced, the use of arimidex may have a profound impact on HDL to LDL ratio's in your cholesterol profile. In this aspect the use of Nolvadex is more user-friendly, because despite its anti-estrogenic effects in most tissues, it seems to exert positive estrogenic effects in the liver and promote a better cholesterol profile. "

So A-dex hinders gains through complete deprevation of needed estrogen.

Nolva hinders gains through protecting muscle fiber from being broken down.

If nolva and clomid are so much alike does this rule out clomid as well. Haven't seen you say anything about clomid other than how useless it is compared to nolva.

Proviron compares to A-dex in the sense that it reduces estrogen too much as well.

Letro can prevent estrogen build up and cover progesterone but you say there are better ways of going about it.

I'm glad I've got a while before I start my cycle. I have so much more reearch to do. Anyway to know how prone to gyno you are if you've never taken AAS before? I think that would help me make up my mind.

[one8nine]

So A-dex hinders gains through complete deprevation of needed estrogen.

only if you dose it to hight you have to find the perfect balance point

Nolva hinders gains through protecting muscle fiber from being broken down.

yes

If nolva and clomid are so much alike does this rule out clomid as well. Haven't seen you say anything about clomid other than how useless it is compared to nolva.

clomid can help. never go higher than 25mg imo. nolva is fine alone though.

Proviron compares to A-dex in the sense that it reduces estrogen too much as well.

no proviron isnt as effective as an ai as arimidex

Letro can prevent estrogen build up and cover progesterone but you say there are better ways of going about it.

on cycle letro is best. some people say letro causes an estrogen rebound which makes it bad for pct

I'm glad I've got a while before I start my cycle. I have so much more reearch to do. Anyway to know how prone to gyno you are if you've never taken AAS before? I think that would help me make up my mind.

youre more prone as bf% increases but thats not the only factor

[one8nine]

i like you
youre takin this reading and learning thing seriously

[lcstriker07]

So idealy I should still roll with my L-dex at a very low dose and as my body reacts, feel out how much more to add if any. How long does it take for your body to react to A-dex as I've heard people say start two weeks before your cycle but take it everyday. Just worried about how long it would take a raised dosage to counter any sides.

What I meant to ask was, Will clomid make my muscle fiber less likely to break down like nolva. I've always heard how similiar they were other than the dosing.

So while on cycle is it safe to just run letro and be sure to pick up nolva right afterwards to couter the estrogen rebound or did I read something about lowered sex-drive? And is that the only side that occurs while on letro because me and my girl are celibate as gay as it sounds and that might make things easier! Me -> <-friends lol

Anyways, I'm definitely dropping to 12% before anything so too much fat shouldn't be an issue. And, thanks man. I've seen some morons in the gym go about it the wong way and I know I'm gonna drop a lotta money on this so there's no way I'm letting it go to waste.

[one8nine]

So idealy I should still roll with my L-dex at a very low dose and as my body reacts, feel out how much more to add if any. How long does it take for your body to react to A-dex as I've heard people say start two weeks before your cycle but take it everyday. Just worried about how long it would take a raised dosage to counter any sides.

just start with cycle it takes a while for test e/c to build up anyway

What I meant to ask was, Will clomid make my muscle fiber less likely to break down like nolva. I've always heard how similiar they were other than the dosing.

yes it will. never serm on cycle, only letro, aimidex or aromasin

So while on cycle is it safe to just run letro and be sure to pick up nolva right afterwards to couter the estrogen rebound or did I read something about lowered sex-drive? And is that the only side that occurs while on letro because me and my girl are celibate as gay as it sounds and that might make things easier! Me -> <-friends lol

if you take too much it will crush your sex droive but thats not good because that means gains will lower too. i just run my letro.25mg every day until start of pct when nolva takes over

Anyways, I'm definitely dropping to 12% before anything so too much fat shouldn't be an issue. And, thanks man. I've seen some morons in the gym go about it the wong way and I know I'm gonna drop a lotta money on this so there's no way I'm letting it go to waste.

good job bro

[lcstriker07]

Well now, I'm throwing in a twist. I'm consdering using Test Prop instead as I already have some. I've heard the injections are far more painful though. Is this just because it's 3-4 times a week as opposed to 2 in test enanthate, or because there's less ester taking up the cc meaning more pure testosterone? And me being a novice, would you recommend I take Prop for a first cycle, or just stick to my original plan?

Also, my source can't get ahold of letrozole, so how safe is it to order products for a PCT or estrogen blockers such as Nolva, Letro, and A-dex? Not thatI'm worried the product won't be legit, but what chance is there of getting in trouble legally? Should I get a P.O. box? Would that help at all?

[lcstriker07]

Why is it that they would dose Cyp at 250mg/ml. Would one take 2cc's all at once? Maybe break it up between injection locations? I've seen a lot of people compare prop to cyp and claim one should take it 2x a week. Why would anyone buy cyp then? Less test and more ester that they don't even need? Am I missing something to esters? I thought I had it down for the most part.

[lcstriker07]

bump for answers

[one8nine]

Well now, I'm throwing in a twist. I'm consdering using Test Prop instead as I already have some. I've heard the injections are far more painful though. Is this just because it's 3-4 times a week as opposed to 2 in test enanthate, or because there's less ester taking up the cc meaning more pure testosterone? And me being a novice, would you recommend I take Prop for a first cycle, or just stick to my original plan?

Also, my source can't get ahold of letrozole, so how safe is it to order products for a PCT or estrogen blockers such as Nolva, Letro, and A-dex? Not thatI'm worried the product won't be legit, but what chance is there of getting in trouble legally? Should I get a P.O. box? Would that help at all?

test prop is actually injected 7 days a week if you cant do that, don't do test prop.
its more painful because of how quickly the ester releases the hormone, but not all of it hurts the stuff i use in painless
if you have the balls to shoot daily its okay. i have friends that are soft that have done 10+ cycles that still inject 2x a week, i have friends that have never shot less often than daily.

www.ar-r.com for research chems

[one8nine]

Why is it that they would dose Cyp at 250mg/ml. Would one take 2cc's all at once? Maybe break it up between injection locations? I've seen a lot of people compare prop to cyp and claim one should take it 2x a week. Why would anyone buy cyp then? Less test and more ester that they don't even need? Am I missing something to esters? I thought I had it down for the most part.

cyp is the same thing as enanthate for all practical purposes.
no 1ml 2x a week.
im confused about what you are confused about?

testosterone propionate vs. testosterone enanthate/cypionate
test prop-
injected daily
peaks in 4-6 days
pct starts 2 days later
minimal bloat
more potent than test e/c mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 50mg ed (350mg wk)
test enan/cyp-
injected 2x week
peaks in 4-6 weeks
pct starts 2 weeks later
noticeable bloat
less potent than test p mg for mg due to ester weight
recommended dosage- 250mg 2x week (500mg wk)

[lcstriker07]

Wow, my lack of proof-reading really showed there. I meant to say why would anyone prefer taking Test Cypionate over Test Enanthate if there's more pure testosterone in Enanthate than Cypionate?

Thanks for clearing up that Cyp is taken 2x a week. I think I was under the impression that it was taken once a week because it's ester is heavier than that of enanthate.

So when you took prop, you felt little pain when it came to injections? Is that because your prop came from a better lab than that of your friends or you just have a higher tolerance for pain? The prop that I have now was bought in bulk by a friend of mine and when he cycled his, he said it was more pain than he could bare is the only reason I ask.

And any comment on my question about mailing or am I crossing the line in asking that on this website? If so, I'll delete that asap.