Finastride and Dutasteride

[Dream27]

Alright so i had my first cycle of sustanon and d-bol when i was 17. im almost 20 and i plan on doing another but i want to do something about my hair thinning. i know a lot of you meat heads will just tell me to shave but i look to dam good to have a shaved head im not really interested in expensive implants or dealing with rogaine so i was then reffered to finsastride and dutasteride. im really curious on the side effects of the 2 drugs and the main difference between them. please fill me in on any knowledge you have of this. especially people who have done it

[jc95605]

you look too damn good, lol. I like that. Well it is important to look good in college tho i guess.

From what others have said only stops your hair from thining it doesn't grow it back. So i would make a decision pretty quick.

[Dream27]

yea man and i go to state so there are 10's EVERYWHERE. i still have my hair and im just paranoid about losing it so i think im going to jump on one of these drugs before i start my next cycle. i'll probably end up running about 12 weeks of test e and im trying to get some tbol but it might not work out, if thats the case ill have d-bol the first 4 weeks.

[gr8TEST1]

just be sure to run the dbol at a low dose as ur kickstarter as that will aggravate mpb.

as far as original post,

i take duta at .25 mgs ed. it does make me tired, but can slow down the conversion rate of test into dht. this cud be bad for most muscle growth, but can be ur fren when fifhting mpb. i still gain, but would gain more if i cut out duta is my point.

but to be safe, any test base, prop, enan, cyp, sus as u mentioned, will it work decent for. as for dht's masteron , primobolan , proviron , tren , ur screwed....just my 2 cents. id go with Var as my dht towarsd the end of my cycle up into pct if u chose one. otherwise, prop workx well. best of luck.

[WARMachine]

Man up and shave it... Your gonna lose it anyway, you did a cycle when you were 17! MPB is a bitch!

And if you look so damn good, you should be able to pull without that hair...

List of things that if not are ok with you, you shouldnt do AAS:

1) Needles. (If youre a puss, then AAS are not for you)
2) Hair loss. (I'd rather be big and have a shaved head, than be skinny and have a mullet)
3) Ball shrink. (They will come back, but if you love T-Bagging, you might wanna re-think AAS)
4) Acne and BO. (If you dont like showering, AAS may not be for you)
5) Eating and lifting. (If you cant eat 5-6 times a day, and train at least 4 days a week[ i do 6] AAS IS NOT FOR YOU!)

[gr8TEST1]

LOL,

guess thats anotha 5 ways of looking at it.

nice view

[Dream27]

yea well im fine with all of it except the hair loss. im not losing it bro, im going to decided if im going to take fina or duta. once im on one of those ill then start my cycle. if fina or duta dont work then ill just look into the next option. implants are ultimately the end of the road but im just not content with the sound of it...another thing, ive been reading about anavar the last hour and i was wondering if it was normal for skinnier people to take it. im pretty lean and have always been under 8% body fat. im not necessarily looking for a bulking cycle and become the hulk. im looking to gain lean muscle and keep it. would anavar be for me? if so what would the dosing be? i know its said to take 40-100mg a day but would it be through the whole 12 weeks of test - e? or maybe is it just at the end?

[bbminded]

From what i understand,once you start these drugs for hairloss you have to stay on them for the rest of your life, just like when you start rogain!

[WARMachine]

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day (include how much your food weighs and macros)
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

Answer these and well see if anavar is another option...

Var is typicaly used for the last 4-6 weeks of a cycle. Or the first 4-6 weeks as well.

[JiGGaMaN]

Alright, theres two main concerns you should have when using either of these:
1. It will prevent conversion of DHT, which makes more test available to aromatization.
2. If you read studies done on the drugs, they say that once you stop using it you lose most of the hair you saved.

[jc95605]

yea well im fine with all of it except the hair loss. im not losing it bro, im going to decided if im going to take fina or duta. once im on one of those ill then start my cycle. if fina or duta dont work then ill just look into the next option. implants are ultimately the end of the road but im just not content with the sound of it...another thing, ive been reading about anavar the last hour and i was wondering if it was normal for skinnier people to take it. im pretty lean and have always been under 8% body fat. im not necessarily looking for a bulking cycle and become the hulk. im looking to gain lean muscle and keep it. would anavar be for me? if so what would the dosing be? i know its said to take 40-100mg a day but would it be through the whole 12 weeks of test - e? or maybe is it just at the end?

I would go with tbol then for you. I'm just now finishing a test e and tbol cycle and tbol worked pretty good. Sounds like for you tbol is what you want.

[jc95605]

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day (include how much your food weighs and macros)
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

Answer these and well see if anavar is another option...

Var is typicaly used for the last 4-6 weeks of a cycle. Or the first 4-6 weeks as well.

What he said

[WARMachine]

hahah... btw Dream, Var in a Test E cycle seems kinda pointless... Since this is your first REAL cycle...

[jc95605]

well i'm partial to the tbol and test cycle. Since he already did a cycle when he was 17!

[Dream27]

yes doing my first cycle at 17 is literally the dumbest thing ive done in my life but i dont really dwell in the past. whats done is done and im looking forward not backwards. i actually did do my cycle somewhat right and actually did have a pct of clomid for 2 weeks but any how, here are my stats.

age - 19
height - 5"10
weight - 150
bf - havent checked it recently but i know its higher then 5 lower then 10
diet - my diets been slacking but it normally consists of about 5 meals a day. protein intake normally consists of chicken breasts, tuna, ground beef, eggs, bacon, and turkey. for my carbs i normally eat potatoes, pasta, and rice. these are included in all of my meals and i normally have fruits and vegetables in 2/5 of the meals.
lifting exp. - i always envisioned a perfect body so ive been lifting since i was 14. yes my routine got more serious the older i got but i would probably say ive been "seroisuly lifting" for about 3 1/2 years
cycle exp. - 1 cycle at 17. sustanon 250 - 250 every 4 days for 12 weeks. i also had about 2 weeks of d-bol to jump start me. once cycle was done i took a 50mg clomid pill ed for a couple of weeks. although my pct wasnt planned right, im getting it right for the next go around.
goals - my goal isnt to become the next hulk. i want to gain lean muscle and keep as much as possible. being a slim guy i just want to fill out more and keep it cut...once agian im not trying to bloat out and bulk

[WARMachine]

wow... So youve been working out for 3 1/2 years seriously and you still weigh 150lbs? And you did a cycle?

This leads me to believe your diet SUCKS! Your goals are ones that can be solved by diet and proper training, not gear...

Post your daily diet in this format:

EXAMPLE:

Meal 1:
8 egg whites
80 gram oatmeal (dry weight)
3 flax oil gel caps

Meal 2
6 oz chicken
7.5 oz cooked sweet potato
1 table spoon olive oil
etc...

Include how much your food weighs, this, is very important.

[mick86]

Alright so i had my first cycle of sustanon and d-bol when i was 17. im almost 20 and i plan on doing another but i want to do something about my hair thinning. i know a lot of you meat heads will just tell me to shave but i look to dam good to have a shaved head im not really interested in expensive implants or dealing with rogaine so i was then reffered to finsastride and dutasteride. im really curious on the side effects of the 2 drugs and the main difference between them. please fill me in on any knowledge you have of this. especially people who have done it

Hmmm, no body seemed to answer the original question. Wish I could help but I don't know much about dutasteride yet. Maybe I'll come back here to add something when I have done some research.

[user12345654321]

i started my first teste cycle 3 weeks ago now, i was using proviron and doing a dbol kick start. but after a few days i was loosing hair so i stopped the dbol and the proviron and have got on to some proscar and it seems to have stopped for now.

[Angel of death]

I love how people talk about "implants" like its an easy thing to do. I don't know anything about you or your life. But Im going to assume you mean a hair transplant. This is a procedure that costs 20-30,000 dollars, and leaves permanent scarring on the back of your head. Aka you can never shave your head below like a 2 without a visible scar on the back. Also...it will never restore all of your hair or the same density. They take "donor hair" from the back of your head, this is hair that is NOT DHT sensitive. Aka why people don't lose hair from the backs of their head. And they plant it on the top of your head. You only have so much donor hair to give. If you don't want to lose your hair, DONT do steroids . We havent come along far enough in the world of hair restoration to rely on any treatment.

[RapaciousShark]

I love how people talk about "implants" like its an easy thing to do. I don't know anything about you or your life. But Im going to assume you mean a hair transplant. This is a procedure that costs 20-30,000 dollars, and leaves permanent scarring on the back of your head. Aka you can never shave your head below like a 2 without a visible scar on the back. Also...it will never restore all of your hair or the same density. They take "donor hair" from the back of your head, this is hair that is NOT DHT sensitive. Aka why people don't lose hair from the backs of their head. And they plant it on the top of your head. You only have so much donor hair to give. If you don't want to lose your hair, DONT do steroids. We havent come along far enough in the world of hair restoration to rely on any treatment.

na, you could prob get 1000 grafts for about 7-8000 bucks. 'Looks like shit tho. Check out Joe Biden's hair, he's had two transplant procedures.

[RapaciousShark]

dutasteride blocks both type I and II 5a-R, finasteride only blocks one of them. Therefore, with finasteride, you lower DHT %40-%60, depending on the person, and with dutasteride you block, depending on the dose, potentially %90 of it.

This is why I hold that finasteride is best off cycle, as you def need some DHT to run your penis and help against feminization. But on cycle, I think dustasteride with hair-friendly gear is the way to go. Switching the two may cause temporary shedding but its better than running finasteride thru a cycle and ending up with %100-%120 (or who knows how much) of your baseline DHT jizzing all over your hair follicles.

Also, do not suppress your estrogen too hard because it magnifies the effects of androgens on your hair. You wanna keep that just low enough to avoid gyno, which is harder than it sounds.

[Angel of death]

na, you could prob get 1000 grafts for about 7-8000 bucks. 'Looks like shit tho. Check out Joe Biden's hair, he's had two transplant procedures.

I am talking about from a top HT doctor. I've been to a few for consultations. I don't know where Joe Biden got his. But 1,000 grafts is not a lot at all...which I why I said 10-30,000. If you want a decent head of hair from a slick bald head, youre gonna need 4-5,000 grafts...

[mick86]

Will they perform hair transplants on people who just want to thicken up their hair, but don't have a bald spot as such? If so I'm guessingthat it would be a cheaper procedure with less hair needing to be grafted.

[Angel of death]

Will they perform hair transplants on people who just want to thicken up their hair, but don't have a bald spot as such? If so I'm guessingthat it would be a cheaper procedure with less hair needing to be grafted.

No, think about it...you only have so many grafts to give...how would you go about that? If your hair is thin all over, yeah you could place some grafts in between the hairs you do have but that would cause a huge potential for shock loss (this is where the already weak hairs around the transplant fallout due to the shock your skin on your scalp takes from such a procedure). And even if you didnt experience shockloss...if your hair is thin and you thicken it with these DHT resistant hairs...the hairs that are still there that ARENT DHT resistant are still very likely to fallout sooner or later...and then you havent really achieved much at all and may end up looking stupid.

The best way to go about a hair transplant? Wait until your hairloss progresses further to the point where your HT doctor can choose a good place to "plant" your hairline. If the hairline is planted too far up then you risk the potential of running out of donor hairs and looking very stupid with hair only on the front half of your head.

[Angel of death]

I hope this solves a lot of questions people have about hair transplants. They are NOT something to "fall back" on if you start losing your hair. Not everyone is a candidate since some people do end up losing hair on the sides and back of their heads. (This is rare, but it does happen)

[mick86]

No, think about it...you only have so many grafts to give...how would you go about that? If your hair is thin all over, yeah you could place some grafts in between the hairs you do have but that would cause a huge potential for shock loss (this is where the already weak hairs around the transplant fallout due to the shock your skin on your scalp takes from such a procedure). And even if you didnt experience shockloss...if your hair is thin and you thicken it with these DHT resistant hairs...the hairs that are still there that ARENT DHT resistant are still very likely to fallout sooner or later...and then you havent really achieved much at all and may end up looking stupid.

The best way to go about a hair transplant? Wait until your hairloss progresses further to the point where your HT doctor can choose a good place to "plant" your hairline. If the hairline is planted too far up then you risk the potential of running out of donor hairs and looking very stupid with hair only on the front half of your head.

While I certainly see your point, a few minutes after posting that question I came across this from the National Hair Institute (Australia)

http://www.newhair.com.au/faq.php

Q. Am I a candidate for a hair transplant?

With a few exceptions, this procedure is suitable for any male or female who is experiencing balding or thinning of the scalp hair. Your individual results will be dependent upon a number of factors that will be determined by the doctor during your personal consultation. At this time, he will advise of what you can expect to achieve.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, you clearly know more about the topic than me. Just posting some relevant info.

Thanks for all the helpful info btw.

[Angel of death]

I mean, I do agree with that statement. I take it back, everyone IS a candidate, we all have SOME donor hair. But not everyones expectations will be met by an HT.

[FlyByU]

While I certainly see your point, a few minutes after posting that question I came across this from the National Hair Institute (Australia)

http://www.newhair.com.au/faq.php

Q. Am I a candidate for a hair transplant?

With a few exceptions, this procedure is suitable for any male or female who is experiencing balding or thinning of the scalp hair. Your individual results will be dependent upon a number of factors that will be determined by the doctor during your personal consultation. At this time, he will advise of what you can expect to achieve.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, you clearly know more about the topic than me. Just posting some relevant info.

Thanks for all the helpful info btw.

If you're thinking of visiting this clinic, don't. Plenty of people have tried to sue Dr Barry White over their poor results and butchered scalps. I haven't seen any decent transplants in Oz. I've seen a few results from some of the overseas docs though and i was impressed. If you're thinking of getting a transplant, save up your money and go to either Dr Ron Shapiro in the US or Dr Rahal in Canada. Rahal actually does the most natural looking hairlines i've seen.
Be careful with dutasteride. It's really strong and will definitely effect your strength gains quite a bit.

[helium3]

dutasteride blocks both type I and II 5a-R, finasteride only blocks one of them. Therefore, with finasteride, you lower DHT %40-%60, depending on the person, and with dutasteride you block, depending on the dose, potentially %90 of it.

This is why I hold that finasteride is best off cycle, as you def need some DHT to run your penis and help against feminization. But on cycle, I think dustasteride with hair-friendly gear is the way to go. Switching the two may cause temporary shedding but its better than running finasteride thru a cycle and ending up with %100-%120 (or who knows how much) of your baseline DHT jizzing all over your hair follicles.

Also, do not suppress your estrogen too hard because it magnifies the effects of androgens on your hair. You wanna keep that just low enough to avoid gyno, which is harder than it sounds.

best peice of advice yet!


i have both dutas and fina, but dont use them anymore as i dont seem to be thinning now.

the problem is dht, can be responable for strength gains and labido among others.
i think suppressing all the 5-alpha and dht in ones body could potentially bring about its own set of problems, especially the effects on estrogen which is required for healthy joints/bones and in part, labido.

id be reluctant to run them long term however before,durin and after cycle maybe neccessary, just not year round.

[Angel of death]

With your hormones doing all this fluctuating from switching to dut and fin and adding steroids n then stopping them I think that may be responsible for some hairloss in itself...

[mick86]

If you're thinking of visiting this clinic, don't. Plenty of people have tried to sue Dr Barry White over their poor results and butchered scalps. I haven't seen any decent transplants in Oz. I've seen a few results from some of the overseas docs though and i was impressed. If you're thinking of getting a transplant, save up your money and go to either Dr Ron Shapiro in the US or Dr Rahal in Canada. Rahal actually does the most natural looking hairlines i've seen.
Be careful with dutasteride. It's really strong and will definitely effect your strength gains quite a bit.

Haven't lost nearly enough to consider it yet. Just looking into options for down the track if it gets worse. Thanks for that though.

best peice of advice yet!


i have both dutas and fina, but dont use them anymore as i dont seem to be thinning now.

the problem is dht, can be responable for strength gains and labido among others.
i think suppressing all the 5-alpha and dht in ones body could potentially bring about its own set of problems, especially the effects on estrogen which is required for healthy joints/bones and in part, labido.

id be reluctant to run them long term however before,durin and after cycle maybe necessary, just not year round.

But say if like me your hair thinned from running onc cycle and half of a second without fina/dutas then you would need to keep running them to maintain any hair regrown would you not? Your method of stopping is only applicable to those who used it for protection and didn't lose any hair.

[Angel of death]

If you want to maintain your hair in general yes you would need to run them year round. If you want to protect your hair from seeing a little excess DHT during your cycle, then thats fine to just use it on cycle. It makes sense.

[mick86]

If you want to maintain your hair in general yes you would need to run them year round. If you want to protect your hair from seeing a little excess DHT during your cycle, then thats fine to just use it on cycle. It makes sense.

Sorry but I'm confused by "maintain your hair in general". In my case I am not shedding hair when I am off cycle, so for others like me do you mean that even if you lost hair on cycle, ran fina or dutas and managed to get some regrowth you would not need to continue using the fina/dutas off cycle?

Your praising was a little hard for me to interpret plus I have heard conflicting information from my doctor and others on this board. I would love to hear an explanation behind a theory either way.

Thanks.

[helium3]

Sorry but I'm confused by "maintain your hair in general". In my case I am not shedding hair when I am off cycle, so for others like me do you mean that even if you lost hair on cycle, ran fina or dutas and managed to get some regrowth you would not need to continue using the fina/dutas off cycle?

Your praising was a little hard for me to interpret plus I have heard conflicting information from my doctor and others on this board. I would love to hear an explanation behind a theory either way.

Thanks.

ok, if you want to protect your hair as much as possible then run it all year round, its that simple. however if you are like me, who doesnt seem to be losing much hair per say, but likes to run dutas while on cycle just incase, for a little added protection, then run it while you are on and for a few weeks after.

im not 100% sure what and if there are any long term effects with using a 5-alpha inhibitor, but when one understands how one works, i can see a few issues with it. which is another reason i like to have it as a precautionary measure while on. rather than running it all year round and trying to regain lost hair.

[mick86]

ok, if you want to protect your hair as much as possible then run it all year round, its that simple. however if you are like me, who doesnt seem to be losing much hair per say, but likes to run dutas while on cycle just incase, for a little added protection, then run it while you are on and for a few weeks after.

im not 100% sure what and if there are any long term effects with using a 5-alpha inhibitor, but when one understands how one works, i can see a few issues with it. which is another reason i like to have it as a precautionary measure while on. rather than running it all year round and trying to regain lost hair.

Yeah I share your concerns about possible long term effects of using 5-alpha inhibitors, but at the same time if my hair has thicked up sice my un protected cycles, it would be a shame to lose that by discontinuing my usage. I already lost hair, but some of it seems to have come back. I want to hold onto it, my doctor says it should still stay if I stop the finasteride, but many users on here say that it will fall out.

[fitfreak]

That makes sense to run dutas while on cycle because it is the stronger of the two. I just stick with finasteride because it has fewer side effects and the FDA has approved its use for hair loss (not that anyone here cares what the FDA thinks lol). I take 0.5 mg a day off cycle and 2 mg a day while on cycle.

[Angel of death]

Yeah I share your concerns about possible long term effects of using 5-alpha inhibitors, but at the same time if my hair has thicked up sice my un protected cycles, it would be a shame to lose that by discontinuing my usage. I already lost hair, but some of it seems to have come back. I want to hold onto it, my doctor says it should still stay if I stop the finasteride, but many users on here say that it will fall out.

Well I've just been steadily losing hair since I cycled...so I cannot relate. But if it thickens up when you arent on cycle, then by all means go ahead and just use fin while on cycle.

[mick86]

Well I've just been steadily losing hair since I cycled...so I cannot relate. But if it thickens up when you arent on cycle, then by all means go ahead and just use fin while on cycle.

So you believe that the hair which has grown back will not fall out once I stop the finasteride? Some say that it will.

[Angel of death]

Ohh I wasn't aware that you were staying on fin while it was growing back. Yeah...I would just stay on if I were you, if you arent getting any sides

[mick86]

Ohh I wasn't aware that you were staying on fin while it was growing back. Yeah...I would just stay on if I were you, if you arent getting any sides

Oh, yeah no sides, yeah I think that uness I am convinced otherwise I will stay on it.