Newbie. Want to start a first cycle

**Shiby916** · 10-20-2010, 04:52 AM

Hey guys. I'm new hear and I am wanting some guidance for my first cycle. I apologies if this has been discussed before hand as I am still getting the hang of this site. Even if someone can provide me a link to my question that would be a great help.

So. I have been going to the gym for a few years now. I have a good solid routine and I know what I am doing. I seem to be gaining only a little bit of muscle. My diet is ok but probably could improve it abit more. My frame won't let me gain a lot of mass, and that's why I am writing this.

I only want to try steriods once. Maybe even once a year.I prefer natural lifting but I have always been keen to take roids.

I was thinking about taking a 5/6 week course injecting test. I don't want inject and take diabol at the same time. I am only looking for a little boost and some small gains to speed up things.

I am writing to you guys to ask if there is any point in doing a short cycle? Could I gain anything for those short weeks and if I could, would I keep my gains if I were to go into a pct cycle right afterwards?

Thanks.

**Matt** · 10-20-2010, 04:54 AM

Only want to try aas once??? Famous last words....

Lets start with stats

Age
Weight
Bf%
Years training
Height
Pct knowledge???????

**Shiby916** · 10-20-2010, 05:26 AM

thanks for getting back to me.

age: 23
weight: 10.7 stone
Bf%: probably between 8%-12%
height: 5f 10 inch
PCt knowledge: Not enough to start taking steroids . I want to get as much info as possible before I do anything. I think it's a smart move.

What I know from what I have studied is if you take aas. After a few weeks of taking test you're body shuts down it's natural test as it is being provided by a stronger outside sourse (please tell me if I am wrong). Once the end of a cycle (cycles vary depending on how long a cycle you want to do) you need to kick start your natural test asap if you want to keep the gains that you have worked hard for using a drug called clomid or/and HCG .

So far I have only gatherd this much info. Apart from trainign hard, eating clean and sleep well.

I had though about using test boosters. But now after researching on the net I have discovered that it's mostly crap. I'm not sure if they even do work.

I know it isn't much info to get me started. I want to gather up as much as I can. I am/planing on taking them in a few months time when I no I am ready.

Thanks 007

**khz** · 10-20-2010, 05:28 AM

ur 150 pounds?

take my advice: steer clear of the gear until u hit at least 200 through natural lifting.

**marcus300** · 10-20-2010, 05:31 AM

The only thing you need to do is sort your diet out because it needs alot of work, just by your stats your nowhere near ready to consider AAS, even if you disregarded my advice and took them it would be pointless because your diet wont and cant support any new muscle tissue at 10 stone you need alot of work and before anything you need to start with your diet first. If you want to be a 14stone guy you need to start eating like one, head over to the diet section and post your exact diet and alos read the stickies at the top of the page on bulking diets, learn how to eat to build tissue and you will start gaining weight, trust me its all in your diet! best of luck

**MaNiCC** · 10-20-2010, 05:54 AM

Agree with the above, much can be gained naturally

**Shiby916** · 10-20-2010, 05:54 AM

Thanks for your input guys. I guess I will have to look at my diet. I didnt think it was too bad. I've managed to gain a stone of weight since I began to train properly and constanly. That has only been 4 months. The only good thing I can say about my diet is that I do get 150 grams of protein every day without fail. But I struggle to eat 4 times a day due to lack of cash. I managed to bench 60kg which is close to my body weight.

Always best to ask the pros first. If I didnt I would have taking it anyway.

Would there be any reason into looking at test boosters? Or is that pointless.

Much appreciated.

**Matt** · 10-20-2010, 06:17 AM

Pointless bro..

Go to the diet forum and post your full daily diet, these a few guys there that will help get on the right tracks...

Good luck....

**sigman roid** · 10-20-2010, 06:21 AM

I'd say test boosters are a waste of time, you just need to fix your diet and reach your natural potential with food and training.

At 5'10 and only 10.7 stone you got alot to gain naturally still.

**Shiby916** · 10-20-2010, 06:24 AM

I'd like to add something about gaining weight. I take after my dad a lot. He used to be a body builder when he was younger. Apparently he was huge. Still to this day i'm not sure if he took gear or not. Anyways one thing my dad told me after all the years of working out that he could not weigh more that 11 stone??!! For the life of him he could not pass the 11 stone marker and ended up staying at that weight until he decided to stop (which was a few years). He ate 7 times a day. Very very clean food and worked out 5 days a week for more than 2 hours. he was in top condition so I have been told.

i appreciate all the comments from you guys but its starting to bug me now because I know for a fact that I will never be able to reach 14 stone unless I turned into a pig (which I dont want to do) and even that will take me years to do so. I have an extremly fast metabolism.

So does this mean I will never get to try out gear?

Thanks.

**mick86** · 10-20-2010, 06:44 AM

I agree, at your current height and weight you are best of continuing naturally. You can almost certainly gain another 20-30 pounds naturally, relying on steroids to accomplish this would be a waste as you can do it just fine on your own. Additionally there is no way that after 4 months of training that your training and eating will be at a level where they can get even close to the potential out of a steroid cycle. You probably wont want to hear this but I'd say you need to train for at least another 16 months consistently before cycling, preferably even longer. That said it would be a complete waste any time inside the next 14 months.

That said I commend your mature approach to cycling and it seems you have already started learning some of the fundamentals which will prove valuable if and when you do cycle.

I'd say focus mainly on eating and training for the next 16-28 months and then re evaluate your options. Continue learning what you can about steroids but dont spend more time learning about chemicals the the fundamentals of eating and training. A year or so down the track would be a good time to start delving deeper into researching anabolic 's in preparation for any cycles that may be run in the months or years after..

Hope that helps.

**MR SQUATALOT** · 10-20-2010, 07:06 AM

stop worrying about all your weight problems,fast metabolism, and all these negative things bro. Dexter Jackson,Branch Warren, and Kai Green all have fast metabolisms and also have IFBB Pro Bodybuilding Cards. If things are not working you must seek help and not wallow in negativity. I didnt see if you mentioned if you take creatine or not? Thats been helping guys poke there chests out for years.Always good for a good 10lbs of smooth,nice looking muscle(if puff is a fear which it shouldnt be take creatine ethyl ester in place of monohydrate). Jack up your protein up to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight and put your carbs up to 2.5 or 3g per pound of bodyweight, take a digestive enzyme, and if you dont know what your doing follow a routine out of a flex magazine....and mark my words...in 6 months you will throw on some major mass, i dont care who you are! By the way you gotta eat every 2 1/2 to 3 hours...if you can't manage that you will turn into a fat pig that your previously mention and seem to dislike,plus you will have shit for energy and muscles wont stay re-plenished so to speak. You say your short on cash? Unfortunately if you can meet those minimum requirements your gains will be slow...a lot of us are or were broke in our bodybuilding days...be a smart shopper..tune and eggs yum yum! I used to eat 10 ****ing tuna sandwichs a day bro and i was jacked at 195lbs,5,5,9%BF and it only cost me about $1 a sandwich.Then you only got 2 or 3 more meals to worry about...if your eating smaller portions more often you shouldnt really be eating any more or less. Hope this helps ...when test does get ran for the first time i have heard from a lot of guys that 500mg/week for 10 weeks is a fantastic first time cycle.

**Shiby916** · 10-20-2010, 07:25 AM

Thanks Mr Squat. Your post has mad me relax a bit

I like my routine I find it quite solid so that's one thing that's good. Jacking my protein up might do the trick. I drink about 3 shakes a day on top with eating 4 times a day. I get about 100 grams from the shakes and get the rest from my food. So I am more than likely consuming more that I think (plus I don't have to worry about rounding up the remaining protein intake). I think taking creatine would be a good help. I was actaully thinking about that the other day.

Is there anything else I could take appart from creatine that might give me that little boost that I am looking for?

Thanks guys. Im glad I found this site before I did something stupid.

**MR SQUATALOT** · 10-20-2010, 02:18 PM

Glad i could help. Besides the creatine,the papaya enzyme or some type of digestive enzyme,most definatly a multi-vitamin/multi- /multi-mineral every day at the same time(usually instructions say take with meal),a vitamin b complex would be great for you as well. and NO boosters are awesome. I used NO-explode and LOVED IT when i was bodybuilding about 2 years ago.That will work out great for you, and there are little things u can do throughout the way such as increasing b complex dosage or tweaking creatine intake and please make sure your drinking a proper amount of water for your bodyweight because that is a commen offender which sucks because it can inhibit your supps that you pay for to work and water is free. take it easy bro and blast up that BW!!

**kleaver** · 10-20-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by khz

ur 150 pounds?

take my advice: steer clear of the gear until u hit at least 200 through natural lifting.

i have to disagree- some people's genetic wall is well below 200lb lean... studies have shown that in genetically gifted people, 10lbs natural lean gain per year is VERY good, average is 5 or less... with a strict diet/regimen. so you telling him to wait 5-10 years before even starting gear? and that's assuming that his body will allow for that type of natural hypertrophy/hyperplasia

hyperplasia, which is the growth of new muscle fibers/cells... will add weight and density to the muscle... hypertrophy, which is the growth of the cell size, will increase size but not necessarily add significant weight. i try to stay away from weight as a point of progress. tape measure, BF%, and the mirror test (how good does it look in the mirror) are what i use with my clients

diet is number 1... if your calories and macros don't meet the demands of your body, you wont grow. then comes training. if you have all the fuel in the tank (food) but don't stimulate growth on a constant, even, and balanced schedule, you wont grow. then comes gear- not necessary, but amplifies the effects of number 1 and 2 on protein synthesis (as well as other functions)

**Shiby916** · 10-21-2010, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by MR SQUATALOT

Glad i could help. Besides the creatine,the papaya enzyme or some type of digestive enzyme,most definatly a multi-vitamin/multi- /multi-mineral every day at the same time(usually instructions say take with meal),a vitamin b complex would be great for you as well. and NO boosters are awesome. I used NO-explode and LOVED IT when i was bodybuilding about 2 years ago.

Oh! so your saying boosters are awsome? Or were you being sarcastic lol, hard to tell. I have heard a lot about no-xplode but not enough I guess. I thought it was another protein shake :S So no-xplode is basically a test booster? Hmm interesting. Can I use that with my protein shake and creatine ethyl? I researched them both last night and appears you have to take it half n hour/hour before work out. I'm guessing they won't cancel eat other out? Do they both support different elements in the body? Creatine to promote and sustain muscle mass and no-xplode is basically an energy drink you have all the time......unless i;m missing something. Wish I wasn't such a newb all the time. It would save me hassling you guys, but I guess that's why I'm here aye.

I was thinking of getting on pay day. Protien shake, creatine (ethyl) and either no-xplode or test freak.

Does this sound ok? I also take a mutli-vitamin, pure cod oil and brewers yeast (and zinc but have to wait until i get paid to get more) everyday or at least 5 days a week ( I keep m vitamins at work because I always forget to take them at home).

**Shiby916** · 10-21-2010, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by kleaver

i have to disagree- some people's genetic wall is well below 200lb lean... studies have shown that in genetically gifted people, 10lbs natural lean gain per year is VERY good, average is 5 or less... with a strict diet/regimen. so you telling him to wait 5-10 years before even starting gear? and that's assuming that his body will allow for that type of natural hypertrophy/hyperplasia

hyperplasia, which is the growth of new muscle fibers/cells... will add weight and density to the muscle... hypertrophy, which is the growth of the cell size, will increase size but not necessarily add significant weight. i try to stay away from weight as a point of progress. tape measure, BF%, and the mirror test (how good does it look in the mirror) are what i use with my clients

diet is number 1... if your calories and macros don't meet the demands of your body, you wont grow. then comes training. if you have all the fuel in the tank (food) but don't stimulate growth on a constant, even, and balanced schedule, you wont grow. then comes gear- not necessary, but amplifies the effects of number 1 and 2 on protein synthesis (as well as other functions)

Yeah I see what you mean Kleaver. But I think I will just chill out abit on the roids (for now) until I get a solid diet sorted. I think it's ok, I will post it in the diet form when I have the time. I think for now I want to try some test boosters. Who knows maybe it would work better for me. I do generally think I'm jumping ahead of myself. If I want to do roids the right way I have more learning to do. There's alot more to it that jsut take it and then stop. My mates were actually the ones who asked if I was up for it. They were going to take it for 8 weeks and tehn come off it like that. As soon as I read into the roids and the pct and phoned them asap to tell them don't do it until they have it sussed. They have lots to learn and I've only been reading up on this for the past week. Kind of happy I saved them before they fuked themselves up.

I do agree about people genetics not being able to gain at least 200lbs. Like I said in my above post I take after my dad a lot and he could never gain over 11 stone. And he was at it for years, working ahrd and eating very clean.

Another thing I was thinking about. Last night I watched pumping iron for the first time. I'm guessing many of you guys have seen it too. Quality doc! I did notice how ever that there were 2 winners. Over 200lbs and under 200lbs. And you can definitly tell they were all on roids. Heck even Big Arny said it in the next doc called raw iron. So to me people that are under 200lbs can take roids.......but I think I will at least try to get to the 11 stone marker before I decide anything.

Man this site is awsome with really sound people. I never get swift and sound advice within minutes of my first post compared to the other site im on.

Thanks guys. Your the best!

**BigJuice777** · 10-21-2010, 09:14 AM

I was/am in the same boat my friend. 8 years ago I was 5'10" and 125lbs. I did everything I could but couldn't seem to push through the 145lb barrier. It was like my body just didn't want to grow anymore. I was F'n shredded for my weight and you could see every single muscle fiber in my arms when I lifted. I looked like a beast... just a really scrawny one

after years of lifting and doing my best to eat right, my body finally figured it out. I took creatine for a while, hit the gym hard, and ate like a vaccuum. One day I weighed in at 150lbs and I couldn't believe it. I kept my ass in the gym and SLOWLY over time my body started to grow. I am 180 now... 8 years later, but the last 30lbs were achieved in the last 3ish years. I think 10lbs of muscle per year is pretty good/typical.

Are you working hard on your legs too? I wasn't as much as I should and I know that was keeping my upper body from achieving its potential. Your body wants to grow in proportion.... neglecting a muscle group can limit growth as well.

Good luck.... you can do it... I never thought I would reach 180 in a thousand years, and I did it naturally. probably gunna start my first REAL cycle (injectables) in January

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 04:01 AM

Good to know I'm not the only one. You actually sound a lot like the old me when I was around 16-17. Didn't have an ounce of fat on me, I was also known as the scrawny one.

I have gained some weight since then as I ate more often. I had a look through the diet form and I'm actually shocked how bad my diet was. I tend or did intend to buy packaged sandweges wih meat and salad. Man was I wrong, even the healthy ones are pritty bad. I'm just going to make my own sandweges and lunches from now on. Brought in some sardeins and home made spagettie bals for today as apposed to a burger or something.

I find it quite hard to eat right because ever since I starteed working I go to the shops for lunch and TRY and buy a healthy thing. I edont have any cookig equip at work so I might just have to cook my meals the night before. I just dont know how I can cook three types of meat and eggs to bring in the next day.

Anyways I appreciate this guys.

If you were going to buy a test booter. Out of the two which one would you prefer?
No-xplode or test freak? Or if you can both?
I know no-xplode you take it before a work out and test freak you have 4 pills before bed. I was thinking about having both if your body can cope?

Thanks.

**codeegee** · 10-22-2010, 04:24 AM

no xplode isn't a test booster... and at your age you don't need one.

if you're looking to try supplements, save your money, you don't need everything out there.

however, if i could recommend a couple, try IsoMass xtreme gainer - it's got a pretty good profile, and for the price it's hard to beat. Not only is it offering a good variety of protein, but calories, BCAA's, a decent amount of daily vitamins, creatine, etc. It's sometimes tough to be hitting 2700-3000+ calories daily, so a weightgaining shake helps quite a bit.

If you wanna rock some good preworkout, try Jack3d. For someone your size you'd only need 1-1.5 scoop and it's dirt cheap. My favorite preworkout by far, kicks the crap outta no xplode.

cheers man

**Driller** · 10-22-2010, 04:33 AM

Heavy compound lifts (Squat, deadlifts and Bench) 2 gs protein per pound of BW, 3000+ cals per day, lots and lots of sleep and you WILL grow naturally.
A basic bulking routine, 3 days per week is all you need. Any more than that and your just going to be going round in circles. If you wanna grow naturally, you MUST get outside your comfort zone and that ESPECIALLY includes eating.
Its not rocket science so dont overcomplicate things, just eat LOTS of good clean (unprocessed) foods with no sugar!

**Driller** · 10-22-2010, 04:35 AM

And one other thing, a test booster at your age is a waste of cash. Your natural test levels are high enough to make good solid gains. Your issue is not test related, its diet and training. Save your money for food food and more food.

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 05:12 AM

Thanks guys for your input

on a side not I was looking at creatine. What are the differences between Creatine Ethyl Ester and Creatine Monohydrate? I was told by someone at the above to take creatine ethyl. It's alot cheaper and lasts much longer. the only diff is that you take a spoon full before the gym where as monohydrate you take twice a day. Why is that?

Codeegee how much is jack3d? I was looking at superpump 250. It had better reviews than no-xplode. Does jack beat superpump? Also wouldn't a strong coffee be a cheaper idea or are these formulas target parts as apposed to just getting a buzz?

Thanks guys.

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 05:17 AM

My work out is 5 days a week for an hour each session. The gym is right around the corner from and I like the idea of workin out most of the week.

Driller. I have just started doing what you mentioned last week

monday: Chest, tri's and shoulders
Tuesday: bi's, back forearms.
Wednesday: Legs. (Just started proper leg training. Squats, deadlift, hack sqaut, leg press, leg extension. reverse leg extension, calf raises)
Thursday: Off
Friday: Repeat monday.
Saterday: Repeat Tuesday.
Sunday: Off.

Abs: usually twice a week.

**Driller** · 10-22-2010, 05:22 AM

I think your doing waaay too much at the gym. Cut it back to three days per week. Mon Wed Fri. Atm, your not gaining due to diet and OVERTRAINING! Your not giving your body time to recover. If, as you say, you have a fast metabolism, then your gonna be burning up a lot of the cals you are eating now, even more so training 5 days per week.
I think we have all made the same mistake, I know I did for years. If you wanna get big, you have to lift big (heavy compounds), eat big and sleep big.
Leg workouts for you atm, should be 6 sets of heavy squats and three sets Leg extensions, once per week!
Less is MORE!

**codeegee** · 10-22-2010, 05:23 AM

Hey bro, let me give you a little bit of a run down.

Don't get all hopped up into the creatine bizz. Creatine is creatine, simple. Online you can by a KG of creatine for $20. That'll last you 2 months. Creatine isn't something I'd take year round, but for the first time taking it you can definitely put on anywhere from 5-10lbs of weight (mostly water weight), but it'll certainly help you lift a bit more. I usually take it for a few months during winter, and tend to stay away from it before beach season.

Jacked is about $32 a container, however, on the site I buy off of it's 3 for $75... assuming you work out 4 days a week at 1.5 scoops a day, it'll easily last you 6-8 weeks. On the website I'm on jack3d has 3x the reviews superpump does, and it still has a higher rating, so that tells you something. Superpump does work, but i need 2-3 scoops of that to get the same feeling I get off 1 scoop of jacked.

Sure coffee is caffeine, which is what all preworkouts are based on, but an "expensive" coffee isn't going to be a whole lot cheaper, lol. It's not like we're talking hundreds of dollars here.

Try jack3d out man, I swear, take one scoop of that stuff and you'll be more hopped up then Harry Potter going to Hogwarts.

Try out the IsoXtreme mass gainer, or look it up online... it's a weightgainer with creatine in it, and really the best bang for your buck.

If you have any other questions holla, you sound like you have a very similar body type to what I started with

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 05:35 AM

@ Driller.

Too much? I was afraid someone would say that. To me, I seem to get a better pump through out the week if I were to train a muscle ground twice a week (and once for legs).

My first routine consists of doing a muscle grounp once a week. I didn't really like it. by the time I got round do doing my chest again it felt soft and droopy (maybe my diet makes that happen). To me when I do each muscle twice a week I get a nice perky puffed up feeling. When I first stated going to the gym I went only twice a week doing a full body and the results were good.

**Driller** · 10-22-2010, 05:44 AM

And your not gaining on this routine right? Your "soft and droopy" because of low protein. The "pump" is not what makes you grow! It feels great yeah, but its not a determining factor in growth stimulation.
Mon Legs 6 sets squats, 3 sets leg ext, calves also. Seated BB military press, 3 sets, Db lat raise 3 sets. Thats it!
Wed Bench, 3 sets. Dips, 3 sets. inc Bench, 3 sets. BB curls 3 sets. DB alt 3 sets.
Fri. Deads, 3 sets, BB row 3 sets, Weighted Chins, 3 sets. Close grip Bench 3 sets, close grip Dips, 3 sets.
Tue and Wed, Abs.
Every set to failure. reps 12,8 6.
This is just a sample routine, good for adding bulk. Its full of compounds, simple and effective. If you run this routine (or one similar) and eat 2 gs protein per pound of BW, 3000+ cals and get plenty of sleep, YOU WILL GROW LIKE A WEED!

**codeegee** · 10-22-2010, 05:49 AM

Hmm, to each their own, but in my opinion 5 days a week isn't too bad... maybe give my split a try shiby, see what you think. It's a 4 day routine that I've found has added quite a bit of lean mass and strength for me

Day 1 - Chest / Bi's
Day 2 - Leg's / Core
Day 3 - Shoulders / Traps / Forearms
Day 4 - Back / Tri's

Now with this routine, I don't spend more then an hour at the gym unless I'm adding some light cardio (which, if you're trying to put on weight, stick to 10-15 minutes). If I do end up going to the gym for a 5th day that week, I do whatever I feel is lagging the most, so currently I do legs twice a week (if I choose to go 5 days). To be honest though, when I do my legs I can barely walk out of the gym or down my stairs when I get home, and the next 2 days I couldn't train them, even if I wanted too... Back is a lot similar to this too.

When I workout I stick to about 4 workouts (3x8reps) for the bigger muscle groups, and 3 workouts (3x8) for the smaller muscle groups. I always include the big 3 compounds (bench / deadlifts / squats), and I try to switch it up every 3-4 weeks. Some day's I'll throw in negative reps for a workout, sometimes sets to failure, incline dumbell instead of incline bench... flat flyes instead of decline flyes, etc.

Give this 4 day split a try, and lift heavy bro. Don't sit around and lollygag in the mirror or get a drink between every set. 30 seconds in between sets, go heavy. It's ok if on the third set you need to cheat a little, that's fine. If you can only pump out 6 reps, fine. If you aren't sore the next day chances are you didn't go heavy enough

Lots of protein and 8hrs a sleep a night, guarantee you'll add on some lean lbs + str in the next 6-8 weeks!

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 07:02 AM

Cheers codeegee and driller. Codeegee. You routine sounds alot like my old one before I re-arranged it. Maybe I'm jumping the gun abit. My old routine was

day 1 chest tri's and shoulders
day 2 back and bi's
day 4 legs
day 5 forearms and traps.

The thing I like about my new routine is that I get 3 days rest between each muscle group. I worked chest on monday and I'm going to work it again tonight and I feel that I have recovered. I'll give you workout a shot though next week and see if it's better. if the pro's suggest it then why the hell no aye

One thing that is annoying but also good I guess is the gym I go too. Some time I will get the bench and work out on incline flys. Other times when its crowded I'll have to go on the cable fly so like you said Im alternating my routine . . . .even when I don't plan to

Had a look at that

had a look at the IsoXtreme mass gainer. Holly cow batman! that stuff got everything in it (so much type of creatine, that's right up my street). Definately going to buy that next week... . .with some all mighty jack3d.

On a side note. when I joined here last night I can't acces my profile, or anyone elses profile :S. I want to get my photo's up. Is there a way I can contact someone to get it sorted?

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 07:26 AM

ran into a bit of a problem. I can't seem to find IsoXtreme mass gainer in the uk anywhere. I think Iso mass gainer popped up but it wasn't really a reliable source.

Can someone perhaps suggest another protien that has the same content as iso xtreme mass gainer that is a reasonable price?

Thanks

**codeegee** · 10-22-2010, 08:23 AM

forearms and traps are two of your smallest muscle groups.. paired up they don't need their own day. hence why adding shoulders is perfect.

the reason i like chest + BI's and back + TRI's is as follows.

Let's say you're doing chest + tri's. Well, in MOST chest workouts, eg any sort of press, the tricep acts as your secondary muscle. So, assuming this is correct, by the time you're done working out your chest (lifting HEAVY that is), your triceps are already partially fatigued before working them out as a primary.

When you do chest + bi's, back + tri's, then technically you're hitting your arms a little more then once weekly, and when you're done chest / back, your smaller muscle group is 100% fresh.

I know what you mean man, and believe me, I used to be ALL about hitting my bigger muscles groups twice a week, but trust me. If you're hitting everything twice a week and you aren't powering out, you aren't lifting heavy enough.

If you can comfortably do 3 sets of 8, and on your third set you aren't struggling / heaving / heavy breathing around the 5th / 6th rep, it's not heavy enough. Do proper reps, it's not all about the weights. I have a lot more respect for any guy doing reps properly then guys throwing their whole body into a lat pulldown. Squeeze your reps out, make sure the negative is as slow as the positive. Give that routine I gave you a couple weeks, push really heavy, do ab's in between sets instead of breaking, eat a TON (spread your meals out every 2-3 hours, lots of protein, don't skip breakfast / lunch / dinner) and 8+hrs of sleep. throw me a PM in a couple weeks and let me know how it worked out and if you made any gains.

oh and, i believe you need 25 posts before a lot of things become available? I had the same problem starting out.

Cheers man

(oh and, if you wanna let me know what website you were looking on or plan on buyin off of for the UK, I can take a look and find you another good weight gainer.)

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 08:54 AM

Thanks man. I really do appreciate this. Everyone here is so dam helpfull!

I'm going to do your routine next week. Even I am starting to think I'm doing to much. But one thing I do know is lifting properly. I always make sure I struggle like mad on my last set. I feel like I've been hit by a bus when I leave the gym. So I think my lifting is in check. Just my routine and diet that needs to be re-looked at. At least my girl friend will be happier that I'll be going to the gym 1 day less than the norm lol.

the site I usually go on for good deal is creatinestore.co.uk. Can't really find any other sites except for myprotien.co.uk but you'll see what that sites like when/if you check it out. good price but for basic stuff....i think.

So would you suggest doing the smaller mucsle groups 3 exercises each? Forearms bi's tri's and traps 4x8? That's what i've been doing for awhile now. Bigger muscle groups 4 exercises each 4x8-10?

cheers again mate. I've got my hype on. Going to tear up that gym!!! (Y)

**jerseyboy811** · 10-22-2010, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by codeegee

forearms and traps are two of your smallest muscle groups.. paired up they don't need their own day. hence why adding shoulders is perfect.

the reason i like chest + BI's and back + TRI's is as follows.

Let's say you're doing chest + tri's. Well, in MOST chest workouts, eg any sort of press, the tricep acts as your secondary muscle. So, assuming this is correct, by the time you're done working out your chest (lifting HEAVY that is), your triceps are already partially fatigued before working them out as a primary.

When you do chest + bi's, back + tri's, then technically you're hitting your arms a little more then once weekly, and when you're done chest / back, your smaller )

hmm I think I might have to try this my main routine has chest-tris and back-bis. Been thinking about switching it up anyway cause a little muscle confusion.

**Shiby916** · 10-22-2010, 09:03 AM

"Do proper reps, it's not all about the weights. I have a lot more respect for any guy doing reps properly then guys throwing their whole body into a lat pulldown"

HAhaha I hate that. I tell mate the exact same thing. you not working soley on your back if you throwing you body backwards. Its a lat pull down not a rowing competition! There so many people out there that do the exact same thing. There going to hurt them selves.But yeah come to think about it I think I know more about weight training than I thought

think my diet is the only thing holding me back.

**BigJuice777** · 10-22-2010, 11:09 AM

I am thinking 3 days in the gym is too little if you are taking gear. I hit the gym 4-5 days a week (Chest + tris, Legs, Back + bi's, Shoulders)... I throw in abs and lower back every other day. Some weeks it's 4 days, some weeks it's 5 days depending on schedule and such. When I hit the gym, I am DESTROYING each muscle group... For instance:
Chest:
Flat bench - Usually try to PR my max bench... then 3x8
Incline dumbells - 3x8
Decline dumbells - 3x8... the 4th and 5th set till failure.
Cables - Incline and decline fly's - 3x8 each, or till failure, whichever comes first
If there is anything left I'll knock out some close and wide grip pushups.... then it's on to Tri's. I personally like to hit my failure point on at least 3 different 'styles' per muscle group. If I'm not pushing till I can't anymore... I don't feel like I'm breaking the muscle down enough. All said and done I'm looking at 12-14 sets per muscle group.... half of those till failure.

Given enough recovery time (usually about 5 days before hitting the same muscle group), I've been growing like a weed

4 to 5 days a week and hit it HARD... that is what works for me.

**Shiby916** · 10-25-2010, 03:43 AM

codeegee

managed to find a shake that is quite similar to the one you provided. It has the same type's of creatine.

heres the link here. http://www.creatinestore.co.uk/speci...tional-details

It seems quite good.

Thanks for all you're help guys. I have now started to eat cleaner 6 times a day.

Now to work my ass off!