6th Cycle Help - Prop/Tren A/T bol lean bulk transitioning into cut cycle

[M302_Imola]

Stats: 30 yrs. old, 5'-10", 195 lbs, 11-12% BF, training consistently for 10 years, 5 prior cycles consisting of compounds such as test prop, test E, test C, tren A, Tren E, deca, d-bol, oral winny, clen, and T3

Lean Bulk Phase:
weeks 1-8 150mg Test Prop EOD
weeks 1-8 100mg Tren A EOD or should I up the dose?
weeks 1-4 T-bol 60-80mg ED, need help with dosage have plenty of tbol
weeks 1-8 letro .5mg EOD
Caber on hand if needed throughout cycle


Cut Phase:
weeks 8-16 100mg Test Prop EOD
weeks 8-16 clen 80-120mcg ED two weeks on two weeks off
weeks 8-16 T3 50-75mcg ED
weeks 12-16 Masteron 100mg EOD, still up in the air not sure if I should include this?
weeks 8-16 letro .5mg EOD

start PCT 3 days after last test prop injection:
weeks 16-22 Nolva 40/40/20/20, Clomid 100/50/50/50

Guys this cycle is still up in the air so I'm open to suggestions. Calories will be 600-800 over maintenance during lean bulk phase and either right at maintenance or 300 below during the cut phase. Goal is to be a shredded 210-215 (8% BF) at end of cycle. I have plenty of each compound listed so need help with tbol dosage, tren A dosage, and whether I should add the masteron in at the end. Thanks in advance.

[M302_Imola]

bump

[pavlenko]

looks like a very solid plan man! If you decide to do it let us know how it goes, im not a fan of clen and t3 tho even thought i never tried them the studies say its bad for the heart.

[M302_Imola]

looks like a very solid plan man! If you decide to do it let us know how it goes, im not a fan of clen and t3 tho even thought i never tried them the studies say its bad for the heart.

Thanks for the reply...Yeah I'm still on the fence about clen and T3. I have used them in the past with no adverse side effects but not 100% sure I will need them. I guess it depends on how lean I stay during my "lean bulk" phase of this cycle.

Any comments from you Vets?

[t-gunz]

bump for more input

[M302_Imola]

bump for more input

Thanks for the bump bro...yeah I kinda expected more feedback from the vets.

[M302_Imola]

I stumbled across some aromasin, should I use it in place of the letro during cycle? Never used aromasin...is it stronger than adex (because adex didn't do shit for me)? Also, as far as the tbol dose...thought about starting at 60mg ED and then maybe 80mg for the next 3 weeks. Is my tren a dose to low or a good starting point?

[Pac Man]

Pin the tren ed for better results/less sides.
Id run 75mg day tren ace. 8wks should be ok but I definitely wouldn't go longer on tren.
Try 60 on tbol, if you feel its not effective raise to 80. If you experience headaches and tbol related sides, drop to 40.

[mick86]

Remarkable similar to mine, my only suggestion is consider running HCG throughout.

My preference has always bee nan AI and a SERM for PCT but if you've had experience & success with Nolva/Clomid fair enough.

Look into the half life of masteron and factor that in to PCT start time if included as there's no point starting PCT if still being suppressed by compounds.

Letro/Adex both useful, though as you indicated gyno issues in past may be worth sticking with letro. Then again you have caber so really it's up to you. Btw I am jealous I could have definitely used some Caber on my bulk/cut, lol.

Would be god to see progress pics as you travel along.

[Dukkit]

Hmmm

Looks decent.

As for the Tbol dose... Anything between 50-100mg a day is what I like. Closer to 100 For a lean bulk it would be great.

Tren dose is fine. Just depends on how you react to tren. Do you get bad sides? If not then maybe bump it up.

I would actually run the tren for the bulk and cut phase. Id run higher dose (150mg EOD) for the bulk.

Then lower for the cut (100mg EOD)

That way you get the nutrient shuttling, metabolism, strength from the tren during the cut. But its a lower dose so less/zero sides and it doesnt interfere with your cardio.

When I run tren, I prefer to run Letro. Ive found it helps control not only estro but progesterone as well. I barely have to run Caber due to the Letro helping.

I love Mast for cutting. I get insane strength from Mast. Which is nice when you are under calories and cutting, you know your strength gets affected. The aggression and hardness is always fun too.

As for the other items, clen, t3 and such. All looks good.

[jBuda]

your going to love what that tbol dose to you and that dose is nice i cant wait to hear your results are with tbol and tren like that. going to be hard as a rock

[M302_Imola]

Pin the tren ed for better results/less sides.
Id run 75mg day tren ace. 8wks should be ok but I definitely wouldn't go longer on tren.
Try 60 on tbol, if you feel its not effective raise to 80. If you experience headaches and tbol related sides, drop to 40.

I wish I could pin ED but with my work schedule that's out...it's hard enough for me to get in EOD injections. Here's the problem though with my EOD injections: 1.5cc prop, 1cc tren a puts me at 2.5cc in the pin...well I def. think I'm going to need to cut this with some cottonseed oil as I have used this brand of prop before and it can be painful. So .5cc cottonseed oil would fill the pin up to 3cc (maxed out)...so even if I wanted to increase my tren dosage I have little room w/ EOD shots. My question is will the tren help dilute the painful prop, meaning I might not need to cut with cottonseed oil?

Remarkable similar to mine, my only suggestion is consider running HCG throughout.

My preference has always bee nan AI and a SERM for PCT but if you've had experience & success with Nolva/Clomid fair enough.

Look into the half life of masteron and factor that in to PCT start time if included as there's no point starting PCT if still being suppressed by compounds.

Letro/Adex both useful, though as you indicated gyno issues in past may be worth sticking with letro. Then again you have caber so really it's up to you. Btw I am jealous I could have definitely used some Caber on my bulk/cut, lol.

Would be god to see progress pics as you travel along.

Unfortunately my source can't get HCG at the moment (sucks). As far as running an AI and serm during PCT, I have always heard if you run an AI during cycle then no need to run it with your serms during PCT...I have used this approach in the past with success. Good point on the masteron, I will check into the half life. So what do you think, aromasin or letro for an AI on cycle? Have you used aromasin, just wondering how strong it is? As far as caber, would you start using right at the start or wait to see if I need it? Also, I will try to get some starting and progression pics...yours were quite impressive!

Hmmm

Looks decent.

As for the Tbol dose... Anything between 50-100mg a day is what I like. Closer to 100 For a lean bulk it would be great.

Tren dose is fine. Just depends on how you react to tren. Do you get bad sides? If not then maybe bump it up.

I would actually run the tren for the bulk and cut phase. Id run higher dose (150mg EOD) for the bulk.

Then lower for the cut (100mg EOD)

That way you get the nutrient shuttling, metabolism, strength from the tren during the cut. But its a lower dose so less/zero sides and it doesnt interfere with your cardio.

When I run tren, I prefer to run Letro. Ive found it helps control not only estro but progesterone as well. I barely have to run Caber due to the Letro helping.

I love Mast for cutting. I get insane strength from Mast. Which is nice when you are under calories and cutting, you know your strength gets affected. The aggression and hardness is always fun too.

As for the other items, clen, t3 and such. All looks good.

Yeah I'm thinking start the tbol at 60mg ED and go from there, 100mg ED sounds mighty tempting though (lol). I haven't run tren is so long I'm not sure what sides I will get from it. Prob will start at 100mg EOD and go from there. So you are thinking use tren in my bulk and cut phase...how would you set this up? Run at 150mg EOD for 6 weeks during the bulk, take 2 or 3 weeks off from it, and then run 100mg EOD for another 6 weeks? I have never taken masteron so I would be lieing if I said I wasn't curious to see what it does to me? So tren or masteron in a cut from your previous experience?

your going to love what that tbol dose to you and that dose is nice i cant wait to hear your results are with tbol and tren like that. going to be hard as a rock

Thanks...I can't wait either. First time running tbol, hope I don't get the dreaded lower back pumps I typically get from other orals.

You guys are awesome, thanks for your replies thus far!!!

[M302_Imola]

Bump, where did you guys run off to? lol Dukkitdalaw were you at?

[M302_Imola]

well started my letro at 2.5mg ED last night to try to get rid of this lump under my right nip. Will be starting my cycle in 2 weeks so hopefully the letro will work it's magic. I will be tapering down to .5mg letro toward start of cycle. Should I continue to run letro (.5mg EOD) throughout my cycle or aromasin (12.5mg ED). Never taken aromasin but adex didn't do shit for me as far as gyno prevention.

[M302_Imola]

Bump, starting my cycle in a little over a week

[Maverick_J8]

Looks good, as already discussed.

All I will say, is remember to ramp the T3 gradually, and then taper back down.

[chi]

so i am assuming you are running the ai eod because you are more susceptible to gyno, hence the lump?

[M302_Imola]

Looks good, as already discussed.

All I will say, is remember to ramp the T3 gradually, and then taper back down.

Still on the fence about the T3, kinda depends on how lean I am at the end of the 1st 8 weeks (lean bulk stage). If I'm lean enough I might not even bother with the T3 but if I do I will def. taper up and down...thanks for the advice.

so i am assuming you are running the ai eod because you are more susceptible to gyno, hence the lump?

You are correct sir! The funny thing is I wasn't susceptible to gyno my first few cycles but started to develop it this past few. I don't mind AI's though, not a big fan of water weight anyway!

[chi]

Still on the fence about the T3, kinda depends on how lean I am at the end of the 1st 8 weeks (lean bulk stage). If I'm lean enough I might not even bother with the T3 but if I do I will def. taper up and down...thanks for the advice.


You are correct sir! The funny thing is I was susceptible to gyno my first few cycles but started to develop it this past few. I don't mind AI's though, not a big fan of water weight anyway!

Did you mean you weren't susceptible to it?

[mick86]

Unfortunately my source can't get HCG at the moment (sucks). As far as running an AI and serm during PCT, I have always heard if you run an AI during cycle then no need to run it with your serms during PCT...I have used this approach in the past with success. Good point on the masteron, I will check into the half life. So what do you think, aromasin or letro for an AI on cycle? Have you used aromasin, just wondering how strong it is? As far as caber, would you start using right at the start or wait to see if I need it? Also, I will try to get some starting and progression pics...yours were quite impressive!

I've used Aromasin, seems to work well for me. Theoretically it would be stronger than Letro as it's said to reduce estrogen levels by a greater %. That said Letro still seems to be the best in terms of Gyno recovery. Either will do, though perhaps in your case I'd suggest Letro.

I've not looked all that much into caber, though as I know I am already at risk I'd use it from the start.

[M302_Imola]

Did you mean you weren't susceptible to it?

correct...I just realized and editted my post.

I've used Aromasin, seems to work well for me. Theoretically it would be stronger than Letro as it's said to reduce estrogen levels by a greater %. That said Letro still seems to be the best in terms of Gyno recovery. Either will do, though perhaps in your case I'd suggest Letro.

I've not looked all that much into caber, though as I know I am already at risk I'd use it from the start.

Thanks for the advice bro. Yeah I think I will be fine with either letro or aromasin. I actually wrote Marcus a PM explaining my situation and he preferred aromasin. I am going to run the caber right from the beginning as I have a hefty supply and don't want to risk prolactin build up. Been on letro at 2.5mg ED for a little over a week now and the lump under my right nip is decreasing in size. Starting around Thur. I'm going to start tapering the letro dose down as I will be starting my cycle on Sun. I will keep you updated bro!

[M302_Imola]

Update: I'm starting week 6 and the cycle is going as planned. Have gained a total of 10 lbs thus far and stayed right around the same bf%. This will be my last week of Tren A as I will be taking 4 weeks off from it and then picking it back up at 100mg EOD weeks 11-16. I have stayed so lean I'm not going to run T3 nor clen as I can manipulate carbs and my diet to lean up in the "cutting" phase of this cycle. I do want to add another compound to what I will already be running: Test prop 100mg EOD, tren A 100mg EOD, 12.5mg Aromasin EOD. What do you guys think masteron at 100mg EOD or oral winny at 50mg ED? I have taken winny before and had good results but I never taken masteron so I'm kinda curious. Thoughts, ideas?

[baseline_9]

I would defo hold on and wait for the HCG....

Your PCT is kind of weak aswell bro....

Maybe extend it by another 2 weeks...

Im ginna have a closer look l8r but this cycle looks very intresting IMO

[M302_Imola]

I would defo hold on and wait for the HCG....

Your PCT is kind of weak aswell bro....

Maybe extend it by another 2 weeks...

Im ginna have a closer look l8r but this cycle looks very intresting IMO

I agree, I meant to edit my original post as I have decided to extend PCT by at least 1 week, might extend 2 just need to see how I feel. I still haven't gotten my hands on some HCG yet but I'm in search.

BUMP! Should I add masteron or oral winny? NOTE: I love my hair and don't want to sacrifice it if the masteron is indeed that harsh!

[RB3232]

Ive heard masteron is needed in longer duration then a few weeks so i'd look into that

[M302_Imola]

Ive heard masteron is needed in longer duration then a few weeks so i'd look into that

true, like anything else it takes awhile to build up in your system. I would be running the masteron the last 6 weeks of my cycle alongside tren A and prop. I like the thought of masteron just don't want to lose my hair...note: I have never (knock on wood) had a problem with hairloss on any test, dht, deca, or tren.

[Tough92]

I've never seen a cycle were u cut for half and bulk for half.Is it common?any benfits?why not just bulk then next cycle cut?

Just wondering man.Also why so long of a cycle?Most cycles I see are 10~12 weeks

[M302_Imola]

I've never seen a cycle were u cut for half and bulk for half.Is it common?any benfits?why not just bulk then next cycle cut?

Just wondering man.Also why so long of a cycle?Most cycles I see are 10~12 weeks

Well considering summer is right around the corner I ran out of time to do a bulk cycle wait a few months and then run a cut so I decided to combine the two and run a long cycle. I have never ran a cycle like this before so figured I would give it a try. I have plenty of cycles under my belt so I would never recommend this cycle to a beginner. I'm in week 6 of the cycle and so far so good. I do however would how my recovery will be after this cycle as I have never ran a cycle this long.

[mick86]

I've never seen a cycle were u cut for half and bulk for half.Is it common?any benfits?why not just bulk then next cycle cut?

Just wondering man.Also why so long of a cycle?Most cycles I see are 10~12 weeks

Transitioning straight from bulking in dieting has always worked well for me. Benefits that come to mined are a quick turn around, less coming n and off cycle, just 1 run from start to end. That normally means less PT usage and less $ spent. AS long as both halves are reasonably short I think it works well. Personally I only really run burst cycles so that leaves plenty of time at the end for dieting without having an excessively long run on cycle.

[M302_Imola]

Transitioning straight from bulking in dieting has always worked well for me. Benefits that come to mined are a quick turn around, less coming n and off cycle, just 1 run from start to end. That normally means less PT usage and less $ spent. AS long as both halves are reasonably short I think it works well. Personally I only really run burst cycles so that leaves plenty of time at the end for dieting without having an excessively long run on cycle.

How's it going Mick? How is life after cycle? Diet and training going well?

[M302_Imola]

Bump, need some advice on adding HCG to this cycle. I'm worried that I will be shutdown pretty hard after this 16 week cycle as I have never ran a cycle this long. I'm currently on week 12 and just now how found a source for some HCG. How much will I need? When would you start it and at what dosage?

[baseline_9]

Swifto is the best guy to ask....

[M302_Imola]

Swifto is the best guy to ask....

True...I'll PM a link to this thread

[Swifto]

Do 1000ius/EOD for about 6 shots, then 250ius 2-3x week thereafter.

Should get your testes firing again.

5-6 weeks on PCT, not 4.

[M302_Imola]

Do 1000ius/EOD for about 6 shots, then 250ius 2-3x week thereafter.

Should get your testes firing again.

5-6 weeks on PCT, not 4.

Awesome...just the advice I was after! Thanks Swifto, you the man! I forgot to edit my original post but yes I will be running a 5 week minimum PCT. I'm assuming I stop the HCG the day before PCT?

[M302_Imola]

ok finally got one vial of 5000IU HCG and have 17 days left until the start of PCT. How would you dose the HCG? How much bac water should I add, as I will be pinning it with a 29G 1/2cc slin pin? Thanks

[Swifto]

ok finally got one vial of 5000IU HCG and have 17 days left until the start of PCT. How would you dose the HCG? How much bac water should I add, as I will be pinning it with a 29G 1/2cc slin pin? Thanks

Please use the searcg function mate, I have an entire thread on this thats quite long now. "HCG - How important is it?" The answer is in post 1 at the bottom (making HCG more managable).

Do 500ius/EOD until the HCG is used up, then start PCT. You may need more HCG.

Do you have testicular atrophy?

[M302_Imola]

Please use the searcg function mate, I have an entire thread on this thats quite long now. "HCG - How important is it?" The answer is in post 1 at the bottom (making HCG more managable).

Do 500ius/EOD until the HCG is used up, then start PCT. You may need more HCG.

Do you have testicular atrophy?

Sorry for not using the search function as I only have a limited time of internet usage at work. I have read that thread before and remember it being quite long. Anyhow, thanks for the adivce I will run the HCG at 500IU EOD until the start of PCT or it runs out. I guess I could get more but given the time frame I figured one, 5000IU vial would be sufficient. You don't advise HCG use during PCT right? I don't really have any testicular atrophy but have never ran a cycle this long so thought running the HCG at the end would aid in endogeneous test recovery. Thank you for your time.

[mick86]

How's it going Mick? How is life after cycle? Diet and training going well?

hey im well thx, was a little unsure what direction i wanted to go in post comp, stayed of cycle for a few months and took it a little easy for a change though as of just the other day decided I will work towards competition at least 1 more time so just started bulking again. Running T-bol, Test P, Tren A, NPP (yep two 19-nors) but with letro and prami sides should be more than manageable, hopefully my gains are substantial, ive never combined these 2 b4. I couldn't really find that much info on the combo and didn't post a thread up here, just went with my own intuition. I can't see any real problem so long as a dopamine agonist is used to inhibit release of prolctin from the anterior lobe of the pituitary. Re claims it's pointless running both as they are very similar, despite their classifications, I personally think they are completely different.

Hows things with u, are u on or off atm?


Btw re HCG I say add it if possible, I use 200 - 250 iu twice a week for duration of cycle starting around 1 week in and finishing around 1 week b4 PCT commences. I base this on various sources, 1 such quoted below:

"100iu HCG administered everyday was enough to preserve full testicular function and ITT levels, without causing desensitization typically associated with higher doses of hCG. It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular degeneration occurs, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use."

I realise the above dose is 700iu but other sources say 500iu is enough. From my own experience I can confirm that 400iu weekly is enough for me.

In case ur interested I'll send u a pm containing a collection of info ive collected from a number of sources on the matter. It may be a little disorganized, they are just some notes I go off.

[M302_Imola]

Hows things with u, are u on or off atm?

I'm on right now currently in week 15 of 16 so two more weeks until PCT. Cycle has been solid so I hope recovery goes well.