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There's a guy I know who just found out he is low on his testosterone. When he was in his early 20's he was taking steroids. That's the reason why. He just got prescribed hormone replacement therapy. He's gonna be on that the rest of his life...just to feel like a normal man, not to get jacked.
Think twice people. Wait a few years. The possibility of the risk is not worth the benefit. The warnings these vets give you are real.
I never give advice to members here that are not ready, be it, age, weight, and so on. So many people have the misconception that aas is the wonder hormone that will transform you into what you've always dreamed of. AAS does not work that way. Without out first reaching your natty limit, steroids will not be as effective. There are so many things to consider when one would choose to go the AAS route, but so many people here choose to go blindly, then when something goes wrong, they come here asking why. We give advice and we get harassed for giving it.
To take AAS without proper diet, knowledge and training, AAS is just about worthless. But for folks under 25 to even try them, it's a mistake that they could ultimately end up paying the price for.
Unfortunately play with fire and your gonna get burned
exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by layeazy
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Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
Good post
Can you explain more in details what cycle he did? Did he do a decent PCT after the cycle? How was his eating habbits? How long was his cycle?Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
Everyone can say that hey, this guy will be on TRT on the rest of his life because of a cycle. But we need to know more in detail in order to jugde if he made some stupid decisions.
Yes I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKbuilder
this happens alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimJoe
to be honest, nothing you ever say will stop young people.
alright. hes 34 now. so it was over 10 years ago. he told me he did a anadrol only cycle. he said he was on and off for 2 years. he said he didnt do pct. he didnt know of that until a few years later i think. dont know what his diet was like then.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKbuilder
There you go. Proves my point perfectly. Of course you are going to be on TRT if you **** it up so much like your friend did.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
Good thing im only 16, wont have to worry about this for a few years.........
:D
could have been the adrol or just genetics and his test levels dropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
Ok Im going to be the one to say it....
I doubt that his on and off anadrol cycle had anything to do with him needing TRT now....
You never know.
I dont know if a short cycle of anadrol would cause low test in your 30's...could happen but very rare!
Im 23 and did my first cycle at 23...should I have waited? yeah mabey but to be honest I dont think 2 years would have made a massive diffrence, I did proper pct, proper cycle length, proper time off, got blood tests done, and did everything by the book.
I think it comes down to the individual. Every person is diffrent and no one person is going to react the same. I was at or near my natural potential, had been training for about 8 years and Im in school for kinesiology so I have a good grasp of how the body works and how hormones react with in the body.
I will agree that there are alot of 20 year old guys working out for a year who want a quick fix so they jump on a cycle with out and education at all but in my case that is not what I did at all.
I also plan on eventually going on trt when Im in my mid 40's or early 50's because I am a firm believer that a small amount of hcg and hrt can help older individuals live a healthier life.
I guess my point is that not ever one person is the same and you cant judge somone soley on the fact that they are not 25. I think that with in reason (20 is to young) there is some room for flexibility in a small number of individuals.
most vets are oldtimers that cant get hardons like they did when they were young, thats why there on juice, they envy the young guys here,
LMFAO
I have a close friend who works in the fitness industry and has been building (mostly natural) for the last 30 years. Most all of the people he knows who did steroids frequently when they were in the twenties are now on TRT and most of them are in their early 40s. None of them did proper PCT and many of them started too early, so yeah there were multiple causes in all of these cases. The point is that starting steroid usage early vastly increases the risk of damage just like not running proper PCT and time off do. So clearly if you do either, (starting too early or not running proper PCT) you are likely to suffer long term damage...the really fvkd up thing is that so many of the young users these days also seem to be the least informed on PCT as well as being challenged to both purchase and run a proper PCT. Because of these factors the masses of past steroid users now on TRT way before those of their natural conterparts will pale in comparison to the flood of those seeking TRT from starting the usage of AAS and Pro-Garbage by both the young and the young and uninformed.
When young guys wanna grow and have access to steroids, they will do it no matter what people say... most important thing would be that they would do it wisely if they do - with low doses, proper pct's and correct compounds.
One thing I don't get at all, is that whenever some rookie asks about steroids here or any other forum - everybody says "forget everything else, and do TEST !", usually the recommendation is a 12week cycle of test enanthate or something.
I think that is NOT a good advise to some youngster. Me, and lots and lots of my friends who have done all kinds of cycles - all agree that test is a bitch what comes to side effects and recovery. It's necessary in longer cycles to keep things going with most of anabolic stuff, but I think it's not great on it's own and the sides vs. gains ratio is bad.
Even my doctor said once that do whatever you like but don't fool around too much with testosterone!
I think the best way for 1st cycle is a mild oral-only cycle, eventhough it's liver toxic, but just keeping the dosage low.
Like in example if some rookie does something like a mild turanabol-only cycle, what happens:
* He is gonna grow, a lot compared to natural.
* If he feels problems or bad side effects - very easy to stop whenever he decides to and go to pct.
* Some degree of natural test inhibition yes, but total shutdown - no.
* RECOVERY is easy and fast, even if he does it without PCT he will be fine after few weeks. With proper PCT it's all ok.
* If this was just a experimental thing, nothing major harm has been done and he probably will train few years without any roids if he's not too much into this hobby. If not, then the easy start was no harm anyway.
Now the "great TEST" in other hand... usually bad acne, major test shrinkage, MPB acceleration and all this fun, with the hard, long recovery. Specially with long esther like enanthate, side effects will last a good 1-2months after the cycle has ended, acne and other fun stuff will be there after few months - and if the PCT is not done GOOD, then the test levels won't be normal in a looong time or ever again.
perfectly put unlike the cocky guyQuote:
Originally Posted by Far from massive
as well as age. i said he was on and off for 2 years. i didnt specify how much time off between cycles. and yeah i know the pct thing...Quote:
Originally Posted by DKbuilder
you make valid points and everyone has heard this stuff over and over again...it's beaten to death...reality is during your 20's is when most guys are needing to be in their best shape for competition or what not so like CsB said, nothing you are going to say is going to stop grown men in their 20s from making their own decision about steroids. your friends case is unfortunate but that doesn't mean he did everything right and that it will happen to young guys who are more knowledgeable and do things correctly. so lets face it, most guys who get into steroids do so in their 20's and it's up to them to learn as much as they can before they do it so instead of making posts warning them you might as well help them in any way you can....after all, this forum is called "questions and answers".
advice like this is what saved me from starting a cycle of aas at age 22 (current age) and deciding to wait until im 25 or not even doing it at all if im happy enough with where i am by then naturally.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
i dont like the help em anyways part. ive convinced a couple of 20 years olds at work not to cycle. they need to be informed of the greater risks posed due to age. having the many posts here about that now and again is the only way they will get the message. thats how i learned ( i was old enough anyways) which in turn helped me properly inform others i know in person. the system is working.Quote:
Originally Posted by super-pump
thats apart of the proper advice here in question and answers. no way around it.
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
How can you blame someone who is in their early 20s for wanting to start on the juice when all their idols (Arnie etc etc) started when they were still in their teens?
It is true that there was less known about steroid use and their sides back then but, what happens when you add someone you idolise to the current body image insecurity that a lot of young men are going through? If you want to stop 20s from taking roids you have to go to the source of the problem: society. What does society define and portray as a man in advertisements etc... generally it's someone who's physique is the product of many years of hard training. The other issue to consider is how technology has contributed to Gen Y's "why wait when I can get it now" attitude.
Steroid use for young adults is the quickest (and easiest) way to reach that social definition of "man".
@ Redial: Good post I've never thought of it like that.
amen to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by super-pump
this also happened to me, i was 19 when i ran my first cycle, and i did it pretty much correctly, but also ran another 4 months later after i had just turned 20. i now have a very low test level, i was stupid. i did run pct, but i ran test, deca, eq and dbol first cycle, and then test and tren ace 2nd cycle. did everything right even had a pro bb here helping me do everything correctly. but i am 26 now and my test levels are naturally low, not way low but low enough i went to the doctor for feeling lethargic and lazy back in december and i found out that low test level was the reasoning. i obviously cant say 100% it was due to running the cycles at that age, but i cant really think of any other reasons.
strong first cycle, not sure if srs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dru23
there are many contributing factors to low test apart from gear. i'm just getting sick and tired of people blaming gear, "oh i have low test levels, shit, its because i cycled"
Would an all test cycle cause the same outcome in someone in early 20s?Quote:
Originally Posted by dru23
it doesnt happen to everyone that cycles to young but yes
elaborate please? doesnt happen to anyone who follows the correct and safe ways, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
So at the age of 20-25, is everyones' endo system not fully matured? I don't know the data of it but are there outliers in the population that could have their endocrine system fully developed at lets say 23? This is an interesting topic and everyone is not a one size fits all.
its luck of the draw, just because you cycle young doesnt mean you WILL DEFINITELY have low test. but the risk is there. u may recover just fineQuote:
Originally Posted by crazy_rocks
Never touched anabolics before I started TRT. Everyone is different and many factors come into play. Its impossible to pin-point the cause 12 years later.
good thread.
should be pointed out that there are also plenty of people who do stupid cycles and DONT get ****ed up...
that being said... it's better to err on the side of caution and wait... learn about all the glorious compounds out there... so that when your body is ready for them... you're already an "expert" on what your body needs
pretty much what junkiescumbag saidQuote:
Originally Posted by CsB
The problem with cycling AAS is that it's like a Russian Roulette. You have no idea what the side effects will be until you cycle. You don't know if you'll be one of the genetically gifted and have no sides or like me with acne carpet down the front and back. I looked like a freaking leper. The same goes for early 20's cycler's. You don't know if you're going to have a swinging limp one or you're going to recover just perfectly. Will you get sides down the years or not? No one can tell until it happens. That's why vets tell young BB to not cycle until at least 25. It's about safety not about convenience.
There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.
I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.
I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.