question about HCG and AI

[aussie_bodybuilda]

i was reading swiftos post on pct.


*AI's are not always needed, especially if one has been used to control estrogen (aromatse activity) during the cycle. There is a high risk of lowering estrogen too low and that can bring its own side effects; Lowered labido, aching joints, poor cholesterol and can negatively effect the immune system. We need some estrogen, not alot, not zero, but one cannot afford a too low an estrogen level at this time of PCT.

so if u used HCG on cycle do u still need a AI after while ur on pct? or is HCG not concidered an AI ? and also how do u tell if ones estrogen lvls are too low or too high and around what lvl should they be at?

[abuleh]

HcG is not an AI. HcG mimics LH which stimulated your leydig cells in your balls to produce testo.

AI prevents the aromatization of Test to Estrogen.

I think it is recommended to use an AI when using HcG during your cycle since HcG by producing Test will also cause higher aromataze.

Only bloodwork will really show your Estrogen level but some sides indicate e.g. bloat/ water retention, singns of gyno could mean high levels of estrogen. Joint aching could be a sign for low estrogen, but low libido could be a sign of either one.....

[kml999]

this is what am going to do next cycle (you dont have to follow it) and its just a clever move i guess:

run AI at a conservative dose and do an E2 test after 4wks or maybe mid cycle to dail in my AI dosage. Myself am very prone to gyno

[aussie_bodybuilda]

so i can use AI + HCG on cycle and then AI + PCT ( nolva / clomid ) off cycle? ( using the AI only if needed ? )

and what does E2 stand for?

[abuleh]

I don't think you will need an AI in PCT if you've used one during cycle because your Estrogen ist already low.

Estrone (E1);
Estradiol (E2);
Estriol (E3)

Different forms of Estrogen!

[aussie_bodybuilda]

I don't think you will need an AI in PCT if you've used one during cycle because your Estrogen ist already low.

Estrone (E1);
Estradiol (E2);
Estriol (E3)

Different forms of Estrogen!

now im more confused i didnt know there was different forms of estrogen lol. is there a post about this or something?

[aussie_bodybuilda]

and would it be better to use AI on cycle or wen ur doing PCT? or depends really?

[Lemonada8]

Cycle for ai

[abuleh]

Found in the internet somewhere, Quote :

"Aromatase inhibitor therapy may be helpful for some men with erectile dysfunction (ED). Aromatase is an enzyme, especially found in the liver, ovary and adipose tissue, required for the conversion of androgens to estrogens. Specifically, aromatase is responsible for the conversion of the androgens androstenedione and testosterone into the estrogens estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2), respectively. In women, the great majority of testosterone is converted to estradiol and estrone, whereas in men, most of the testosterone stays as testosterone, and only a small percentage is converted to estradiol and estrone.

Aromatase inhibitors prevent the action of the enzyme aromatase. Thus, in the presence of an aromatase inhibitor, the body produces less estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) and maintains a higher level of testosterone. Aromatase inhibitors have been traditionally used as second-line therapy (after tamoxifen) for the treatment of breast cancer, tumors that usually depend on estrogen for growth.

In men, the effect of 2.5 mg of the aromatase inhibior letrozole suppressed plasma estradiol to concentrations less than 50% of pretreatment values after 2 days, with recovery to approximately pretreatment values after 6 days. These decreases were accompanied by increased gonadotrophin (luteininzing hormone - LH and follicle stimulating hormone - FSH) concentrations, with resultant increases of approximately 50% in plasma testosterone.

In men, aromatase activity appears to increase with age. This is particularly so in men with a high body mass index. Increased aromatase activity in men results in conversion of testosterone into higher levels of estradiol. This is especially a problem if men are taking exogenous testosterone (intramuscular testosterone enanthate or cypionate, or topical 1% testosterone as a hydroalcolic gel) for treatment of hypogonadism. Under such conditions, raising the testosterone in a man with a high aromatase level will elevate the serum estradiol. It is controversial but several investigators believe that elevated estradiol values in men are responsible, in part, for causing persistence of many of the symptoms of "androgen insufficiency", despite receiving testosterone treatment. Some investigators also believe that higher estradiol values are associated with prostate enlargement and there is increasing discussion of the role of estrogen in abnormal prostate tissue growth. High levels of estrogen are also thought to result in male hair loss.

Thus there appears to be a role ("off-label" as it concerns FDA government indications) in the use of aromatase inhibitors in some men with sexual dysfunction and elevated estradiol values."

Also:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-estriol.htm

[mick86]

HcG is not an AI. HcG mimics LH which stimulated your leydig cells in your balls to produce testo.

AI prevents the aromatization of Test to Estrogen.

I think it is recommended to use an AI when using HcG during your cycle since HcG by producing Test will also cause higher aromataze.

Only bloodwork will really show your Estrogen level but some sides indicate e.g. bloat/ water retention, singns of gyno could mean high levels of estrogen. Joint aching could be a sign for low estrogen, but low libido could be a sign of either one.....

^ Agreed on all accounts, couldn't have put it better myself