First Cycle. Test prop

[Battleplan]

I am intending to run the following cycle within the next few months. If anyone can give advice/criticism I would be grateful.

Stats
Age: 26
Height: 6'0''
Weight: 190
BF%: 11%
Years training: 5

Diet.
I have been using a carb backloading style diet with good results and would like to continue on cycle depending how hungry I get.

Typical daily Diet.
7am wake, 10g BCAAs 60 minute walk
11am 10g BCAAs
12-1pm Train Fasted
1.30pm 2 scoops icecream, 60g Whey
2pm 200g chicken breast, 2cups rice
4pm 200g salmon, 2cups rice
7.30pm 300g steak 300g sweet potato, Large mixed greens salad in olive oil.
10pm 60g Whey, handful of nuts.







Wk 1-8 Testosterone Propionate = 100mg or 150mg EOD
Wk 1-8 Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Wk 1-8 HCG = 250iu twice/wk day.

PCT starting 3 days after last injection
Clomid 75/50/50/50
DAA 3g daily
Vitamin C 2-3g per day to control cortisol.

Couple of questions I have.

Would 100mg prop EOD be enough, I have seen it recommended on forums but I have a friend who uses it at 200mg EOD and that is what he has suggested.

I am considering using Anavar at 60mg ED weeks 3-8. Should I include it on this cycle or wait for a later cycle.

[austinite]

Welcome to the forums.

I wouldn't worry about var just yet. Introduce that in future cycles so that you understand how you react to Test alone, as Test will be your base for all future cycles. This way you can identify the source of side effects.

Arimidex is easier to manage than Aromasin . You can dose that at 0.25 EOD on cycle.

100mg is a perfect start with Test. No need to go higher.

Your clomid dose looks good, however, you will need to couple that with Nolva at 40/20/20/20

Ditch the Ice Cream. I don't see your macronutrient breakdown, consider an evaluation of your diet in the nutrition section.

Good luck. Remember, your diet determines your results here.

[panntastic]

Is this a first cycle?

[Battleplan]

Welcome to the forums.

I wouldn't worry about var just yet. Introduce that in future cycles so that you understand how you react to Test alone, as Test will be your base for all future cycles. This way you can identify the source of side effects.

Arimidex is easier to manage than Aromasin . You can dose that at 0.25 EOD on cycle.

100mg is a perfect start with Test. No need to go higher.

Your clomid dose looks good, however, you will need to couple that with Nolva at 40/20/20/20

Ditch the Ice Cream.

Good luck. Remember, your diet determines your results here.

Thanks for the quick response. I am pretty sure ill leave the var for my next cycle, Why does Nolva need to be included? I have heard negative things about it and would prefer to use only one SERM in my PCT. Is it absolutely necessary?

[austinite]

Nolva will increase your Test levels. It's a stronger estrogen receptor agonist than it's good friend Clomid. This will better your chances at a full recovery. Unless the sides are unbearable, you should always include it in PCT.

[lifeofdefiance]

Ditch the Ice Cream. .

No need to do this OP. Simple sugars are ideal for protein synthesis after working out. IIFYM. Literally makes no difference whether he gets his PWO carbs from ice cream or veggies. Sorry, just kind of bugs me you'd say this, I don't see any reason why someone can't have a meal they enjoy everyday so long as it fits their macros.

[Stosh_112]

Looks good at 100mg of prop EOD. And add the Nolva in with ur pct like Aust said.

[austinite]

No need to do this OP. Simple sugars are ideal for protein synthesis after working out. IIFYM. Literally makes no difference whether he gets his PWO carbs from ice cream or veggies. Sorry, just kind of bugs me you'd say this, I don't see any reason why someone can't have a meal they enjoy everyday so long as it fits their macros.

^ ok. Let;s just drink milk all day instead. That IIFYM theory is garbage. That's what cheat days are for.

[lifeofdefiance]

^ ok. Let;s just drink milk all day instead. That IIFYM theory is garbage.

That's your opinion, works great for me and many others. Can't argue with results. Eating "clean" theory is garbage imo lol. Your body doesn't care where you get your macros from.

Also as I've stated, simple sugars are ideal post workout.... what do you think dextrose is?

[austinite]

That's your opinion, works great for me and many others. Can't argue with results.

Yeah... I'm sure you had results. Let's get back to OP's cycle. He can use the nutrition section to debunk your theory.

[Granovich]

That's your opinion, works great for me and many others. Can't argue with results. Eating "clean" theory is garbage imo lol. Your body doesn't care where you get your macros from.

Also as I've stated, simple sugars are ideal post workout.... what do you think dextrose is?

Thats completely wrong
Of course it matter where it comes from
I have a friend who had a diet for 4 weeks
Only cake!!
800 calorie a day . 3 meals all cake
He didnt lose shit cuz of the sugars...

[austinite]

Dextrose? You should always avoid any carbs from dextrose, lactose, fructose or maltodextrin. This is especially important on a cut. No one is saying torture yourself, but unless your intake requires 6000 calories, IIFYM theory is garbage.

[Battleplan]

That's your opinion, works great for me and many others. Can't argue with results. Eating "clean" theory is garbage imo lol. Your body doesn't care where you get your macros from.

Also as I've stated, simple sugars are ideal post workout.... what do you think dextrose is?

I know where you are coming from, However I did not intend this thread to become a diet debate. I include the ice-cream as part of the diet I am currently experimenting with(Carb back-loading) with good results.

I have also used a more traditional "clean" style of eating with meals starting as soon as I wake i.e. egg whites and oatmeal for meal 1, and then meals at 2-3 hour intervals after that. I will probably have to take an approach similar to this for my cycle a friend have told me that they had extreme hunger during their cycles, to the point of having to put a small fridge next to his bed because he was waking up during the night due to hunger.

[gbrice75]

That's your opinion, works great for me and many others. Can't argue with results. Eating "clean" theory is garbage imo lol. Your body doesn't care where you get your macros from.

Also as I've stated, simple sugars are ideal post workout.... what do you think dextrose is?

'Ideal' for what? Says who, you?

Please explain to me your interpretation of IIFYM. I'm not interested in the acronym; that's obvious. I want to know what YOU think 'If It Fits Your Macros' means.

Re: your (irresponsible and inaccurate) statement

Your body doesn't care where you get your macros from

How do you know? How old are you? Eat junk food day in and day out for years, then come back and tell me that... along with a full panel of blood tests.

IIFYM, as it was intended, is a sound approach to dieting. It's people like you who give it a bad name. IIFYM doesn't constitute lazy dieting or even a minimalist approach, but that's how guys like you interpret it, because it's convenient.

[lifeofdefiance]

'Ideal' for what? Says who, you?

It's a pretty common theory in the BBing community, but regardless on whether or not you agree with that eating a little ice cream post workout would make literally no difference in your physique compared to replacing it with an equal caloric amount of veggie. Saying anything else is just silly. I don't think OP is consuming 2k cals of ice cream post workout.

[Lunk1]

'Ideal' for what? Says who, you?

Christ..you know it's bad when (Lunk) knows more about diet than these guys LMAO!

[austinite]

It's a pretty common theory in the BBing community, but regardless on whether or not you agree with that eating a little ice cream post workout would make literally no difference in your physique compared to replacing it with an equal caloric amount of veggie. Saying anything else is just silly. I don't think OP is consuming 2k cals of ice cream post workout.

Eating Ice Cream everyday is not "a little".

[lifeofdefiance]

'Ideal' for what? Says who, you?

Please explain to me your interpretation of IIFYM. I'm not interested in the acronym; that's obvious. I want to know what YOU think 'If It Fits Your Macros' means.

Re: your (irresponsible and inaccurate) statement



How do you know? How old are you? Eat junk food day in and day out for years, then come back and tell me that... along with a full panel of blood tests.

IIFYM, as it was intended, is a sound approach to dieting. It's people like you who give it a bad name. IIFYM doesn't constitute lazy dieting or even a minimalist approach, but that's how guys like you interpret it, because it's convenient.

Stop assuming things, when did I ever say any of that? You're just putting a bunch of words in my mouth. I said eating a little ice cream post workout is fine and will make 0 effect on physique (or health for that matter). If OPs entire diet consisted of ice cream and fast food, I might be concerned.

Also I think you're the one lacking understanding in IIFYM. The whole basis behind IIFYM is to follow a good diet to an extent where you are hitting your macronutrient goals (mainly for fats and protein) and then you can fill your remaining carbs with whatever you like. Obviously with any sound macro goals, you aren't gonna have room to stuff your face with junk food, but this doesn't mean you can't enjoy a small amount on a daily basis. There is nothing inherently bad about ice cream. Stop being a fear monger.

[austinite]

Stop assuming things, when did I ever say any of that? You're just putting a bunch of words in my mouth. I said eating a little ice cream post workout is fine and will make 0 effect on physique (or health for that matter). If OPs entire diet consisted of ice cream and fast food, I might be concerned.

lol. ok... that seals the deal for me. Not wasting time with this nonsense. Thanks for confirming my original statement.

[lifeofdefiance]

lol. ok... that seals the deal for me. Not wasting time with this nonsense. Thanks for confirming my original statement.

alright, good, then stop responding to my posts lol

[austinite]

alright, good, then stop responding to my posts lol

I will when you stop quoting me. There are plenty of non-sense forums out there, feel free to join them. Opinions are more than welcome here, but silly non-sense is just garbage. That's what you're spewing. 0 effect on physique. a 16 year old knows better than to say that.

[lifeofdefiance]

Are you telling me that if OP replaced that ice cream with an equal amount of calories of some other type of food he would see a change in his physique? And I'm the one spewing garbage... lol. Sorry, but that is just misinformation at it's finest.

Anyways, I'm not trying to start a huge fight here, just voicing my opinion guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

[Battleplan]

Stop assuming things, when did I ever say any of that? You're just putting a bunch of words in my mouth. I said eating a little ice cream post workout is fine and will make 0 effect on physique (or health for that matter). If OPs entire diet consisted of ice cream and fast food, I might be concerned.

Also I think you're the one lacking understanding in IIFYM. The whole basis behind IIFYM is to follow a good diet to an extent where you are hitting your macronutrient goals (mainly for fats and protein) and then you can fill your remaining carbs with whatever you like. Obviously with any sound macro goals, you aren't gonna have room to stuff your face with junk food, but this doesn't mean you can't enjoy a small amount on a daily basis. There is nothing inherently bad about ice cream. Stop being a fear monger.

Enough with the diet debate. As I said before the ice-cream is included as part of a specific diet that I am using. I built my physique with a traditional BB eating strategy and that is how I will likely eat while on cycle, as I am aiming to gain as little fat as possible. If you have any input regarding my actual cycle I would like to hear it, If not please stop posting in this thread.

I am currently 190 pounds and my goal for this cycle is to reach 200lbs. My long term goal is 220 at 10%.

[austinite]

I am currently 190 pounds and my goal for this cycle is to reach 200lbs. My long term goal is 220 at 10%.

Sorry this thread got derailed.

That's a very doable goal and your starting stats are a great base for it. It's not common for folks to have reasonable expectations, so it sounds like you've done some research.

[lifeofdefiance]

Enough with the diet debate. As I said before the ice-cream is included as part of a specific diet that I am using. I built my physique with a traditional BB eating strategy and that is how I will likely eat while on cycle, as I am aiming to gain as little fat as possible. If you have any input regarding my actual cycle I would like to hear it, If not please stop posting in this thread.

I am currently 190 pounds and my goal for this cycle is to reach 200lbs. My long term goal is 220 at 10%.

lol sorry, didn't mean to get your thread so off track, just was pretty in awe at some of the misinformation austinite is spreading. I would start off with 100 EOD prop and bump it up to 150 possibly if you feel you need it. 200 is overkill imo. Other than that cycle and diet plan look good, good luck man. Anavar could be a good addition as well. Its a pretty weak compound and ideal for a beginner cycle. Would go well with what you have planned.

Anyways, your cycle and diet look good man.

[panntastic]

Christ..you know it's bad when (Lunk) knows more about diet than these guys LMAO!

He wants 10% bf with ice cream
Can anyone else smell Dan?

[austinite]

Bumping your dose is not a good idea. Keep it steady throughout. You can increase your dose in future cycles. No need for the spike, blood work will tell you this.

[lifeofdefiance]

Bumping your dose is not a good idea. Keep it steady throughout. You can increase your dose in future cycles.

to be fair 150 eod isn't a huge dose of test. thats pretty standard for a first cycle. I just thought he could start out low and move up if he thinks he needs it rather than just going right off the bat with 150. If gains are sufficinent with only 100 though, then moving up probably isn't neccessary, I think that's something OP will have to figure out for himself. Doses and results differ from person to person.

[austinite]

100mg is about 5 times what the average male produces. It's far from low and a perfect start for a first timer.

[Back In Black]

OP your diet COULD do with a little work but that can be addressed in the nutrition forum if you want to post it there.

FYI, my current prop only cycle is 110mg EOD. 4 weeks in and I'm up 10lbs with no noticeable fat gain, so your goal for this cycle is extremely doable. I primed for 6 weeks beforehand and I'd strongly encourage you to consider the same, please look here

The Prime explained before cycling..

[Battleplan]

[QUOTE=Back In Black;6494245]OP your diet COULD do with a little work but that can be addressed in the nutrition forum if you want to post it there.

FYI, my current prop only cycle is 110mg EOD. 4 weeks in and I'm up 10lbs with no noticeable fat gain, so your goal for this cycle is extremely doable. I primed for 6 weeks beforehand and I'd strongly encourage you to consider the same, please look here



Thanks for your input. I am still deciding what diet I will use on cycle and I will likely post it in the nutrition forum before I start. It will probably be 6-8 meals, with protein coming from eggs, salmon, chicken and lean beef, Complex carbs coming from white rice, oats, and sweet potatoes and fats from nuts and olive oil. I also eat plenty of mixed greens salad bags.

I have read that article before and like the idea of slowly reducing carbs leading up to the cycle. It also gives the added benefit of starting the cycle as lean as possible which is only going to reduce the chance of estrogen related sides.

[gbrice75]

Stop assuming things, when did I ever say any of that? You're just putting a bunch of words in my mouth. I said eating a little ice cream post workout is fine and will make 0 effect on physique (or health for that matter). If OPs entire diet consisted of ice cream and fast food, I might be concerned.

Actually, you said our bodies don't care where macros are coming from. Do I have to quote you a second time?

Re: your last sentence above - it's a complete contradiction to your prior comment. If our bodies don't care, then why would you be concerned?

Also I think you're the one lacking understanding in IIFYM.

How do you figure, seeing as I've already stated IIFYM (as it was intended) is a sound approach? Are you only going to respond to what fits your argument and conveniently ignore everything else I've said?

The whole basis behind IIFYM is to follow a good diet to an extent where you are hitting your macronutrient goals (mainly for fats and protein) and then you can fill your remaining carbs with whatever you like. Obviously with any sound macro goals, you aren't gonna have room to stuff your face with junk food, but this doesn't mean you can't enjoy a small amount on a daily basis.

I happen to agree with you. This is not what "most of the bodybuilding community" will describe when asked about IIFYM. I am glad to hear you say this.

There is nothing inherently bad about ice cream. Stop being a fear monger.

Your blanket/absolute comment regarding ice cream is irresponsible, but we can save that for another time. As for me being a "fear monger" - I'm far from it. If you weren't choosing to ignore parts of what I said, this comment would seem even more ridiculous. You sir, are the one making assumptions.

[gbrice75]

Enough with the diet debate.

If you have any input regarding my actual cycle I would like to hear it, If not please stop posting in this thread

x2... sorry about the hijack Battle. I admittedly get a little out of sorts when I see people making blanket statements that don't necessarily apply to the masses.

As for your OP - you're on the board forum out there, so you're in good hands. These guys will steer you right.

[Lunk1]

I ice cream

[Youngsters]

I ice cream

Lol...

[kll123]

yall's drama is a little redundant but i wanted to know if what m&f magazine is right in saying wonka pixie sticks or bottle caps are a good idea PW. i'd think ice cream is only a good idea on cheat day as long as you're working out on cheat day.

[gbrice75]

yall's drama is a little redundant but i wanted to know if what m&f magazine is right in saying wonka pixie sticks or bottle caps are a good idea PW. i'd think ice cream is only a good idea on cheat day as long as you're working out on cheat day.

Please go over to the nutrition section and start a thread. This isn't the place for this discussion, and the OP has stated he'd like to keep his thread on track with regard to his initial inquiry.

I'll be happy to get into it over there.

[Battleplan]

spam filter is stopping me from posting. Not sure why, is there anyway around this?

[ryanvvc]

spam filter is stopping me from posting. Not sure why, is there anyway around this?

i see u

[Flier]

I am intending to run the following cycle within the next few months. If anyone can give advice/criticism I would be grateful.

Stats
Age: 26
Height: 6'0''
Weight: 190
BF%: 11%
Years training: 5

Diet.
I have been using a carb backloading style diet with good results and would like to continue on cycle depending how hungry I get.

Typical daily Diet.
7am wake, 10g BCAAs 60 minute walk
11am 10g BCAAs
12-1pm Train Fasted
1.30pm 2 scoops icecream, 60g Whey
2pm 200g chicken breast, 2cups rice
4pm 200g salmon, 2cups rice
7.30pm 300g steak 300g sweet potato, Large mixed greens salad in olive oil.
10pm 60g Whey, handful of nuts.







Wk 1-8 Testosterone Propionate = 100mg or 150mg EOD
Wk 1-8 Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Wk 1-8 HCG = 250iu twice/wk day.

PCT starting 3 days after last injection
Clomid 75/50/50/50
DAA 3g daily
Vitamin C 2-3g per day to control cortisol.

Couple of questions I have.

Would 100mg prop EOD be enough, I have seen it recommended on forums but I have a friend who uses it at 200mg EOD and that is what he has suggested.

I am considering using Anavar at 60mg ED weeks 3-8. Should I include it on this cycle or wait for a later cycle.

My last cycle was Prop 100mg EOD with .25mg Adex. Worked great!
BW showed Test through the roof with E2 well within range. Don´t think I "needed" the AI.
Gotten great results with much lower dose before, SO... 100mg is plenty! Remember 350mg Prop equals 500mg Cyp.
Starting my own Prop cycle this month. This time 80mg EOD, no AI. HCG as always. Light PCT.